I apologize for beginning another ‘OTHER TOPIC’ thread, but my brief participation here has shown me that the opinions of those using this forum are valuable. I will be deciding on a colour ‘photo’ printer sometime in early February. My interest is in producing both colour and black & white prints. Most will be 8 x 10’ish enlargements of ‘selected’ shots (I’m not very interested in printing 4 x 6’s of everything), thus the printer might sit idle for up to weeks at a time. Permanence of the prints is somewhat important.
Among the models I have been considering are the HP 7960 (excellent B&W but very expensive supplies) and the Canon i960 (fast, good colour, less expensive supplies, but B&W?). What printers are your favourites, or would you recommend in my situation, and what, if any, tips do you have for printing to them (file prep, etc.)? Is this permanence rating (75 yrs HP or 25 yrs Canon for BEST papers) just marketing hype or independently tested/predicted? Also, considering my interest (enlargements from time to time) might you just not bother and go to a photolab?
I have the HP 7150, which is an older version, but it has the same printing technology that yours does. It just doesn’t have all of the extra bells and whistles like a LCD monitor and slots for all the different types of media cards. I have printed a few black and white photographs, and have been quite pleased with them. However, printing at home has become more of an economic issue with me. I have found that if I do all the work to get my images looking the way I want them, I can get good results taking them to Sam’s Club. I do this particularly with my larger prints. Personally, I have decided to use my printer primarily for occasional 4×6 prints at home because it is otherwise a lot less expensive to have them printed by a lab. Sam’s Club has done some very good black and white enlargements for me. But I realize that a lot of the more professional photographers who will likely answer your question prefer to do all of their work on their own printers, and I’m sure there are advantages to doing that. I’m afraid my quest for perfection isn’t as sharpened as it is for some of them.
I have an older HP DeskJet 970C and a brand new Epson Stylus Photo R300 and I love them both. Even though the HP is not a ‘photo’ printer, I don’t see a big difference in photo quality, at least not yet.
The HP is nice because it is part of their Pro series and can do double-sided printing. I’m a tree-hugger, what can I say? 🙂
The Epson is nice because it has individual color ink cartridges which is supposedly cheaper in the long run. It can also print to CD-Rs and DVD-R & DVD+Rs. It’s also remarkably inexpensive. The only problem is that I am currently investigating why 8.5 x 11" paper comes out with ink on the edges–this happened after I printed a CD-R, so I might’ve done something wrong here.
Other than for work projects, I use my printers mostly for greeting cards, T-Shirts, refrigerator magnets, and 8×10 and 5×7 collages, but not for 4x6s. Nowadays 4x6s are so cheap to print (say, at Walgreens for 29¢) that it’s probably more expensive on a home printer. Walgreens 6x8s are $2.99, so that’s definitely cheaper printing at home.
I, too, have decided I don’t want to get too far "into" the at home printing issues. I’ve loved my HP 1215, because it’s so forgiving on the issue of clogged jets, and it does nice prints, too. When I do want longevity, I take my pictures to either the local camera store or Costco for printing.
If I were going to buy a new printer now, I’d seriously consider the Canons. They don’t seem to have the clogging problems like Epsons, and the ink is much cheaper. Plus I hear they do darned good prints!
Jim, I think your approach makes sense. As much as I’d love to get into serious printing at home, the costs of ink have become alarming. I’m going to try a couple ‘enlargements’ at Sam’s and see how they do. They certainly have the equipment! Thanks for the tip.
I will be interested to hear how things turn out for you. I don’t know, I might just be lucky. But if I take the time to edit my images and get them looking the way I want them to, Sam’s Club has done a pretty good job of printing what I expect.
I have a Canon i950, same as the i960 without the media card slots, and love it. Since everything I print gets run through PSE first the media slots were unimportant to me. I printed fourteen calenders, each with thirteen two sided pages for Christmas presents. That’s a total of 364 8 x 10 photos. Because of the large print job it was easy to keep up with costs. Each 8 x 10 cost $.39 (that’s USD for our northern friends <G>) for ink plus the cost of paper. For about $.62 I can make a beautiful 8 x 10 on the Ilford Smooth Gloss paper sold at Sam’s. I have since found Canon’s OEM cartridges for $9.26 each, while they are $11.99 most places. As for quality, the range of color tones and shades are definitely better that what I can obtain from my older HP. Six colors over the usual four does make a big difference. The drivers give you a lot of options so you have near complete control over the output.
If you don’t have to print in bulk but just only the occasional 8×10" have your images printed. Compare the costs of buying a printer, the pigmented inks and the right long life paper and compare these costs to the costs of having it printed. I suppose the break even point, if there is any, will be at many hundreds or probably even thousands of prints.
Leen, I believe it’s like many hobbies; economics don’t play a large role in the decision-making process. If one wants to create an image from the original visualization through camera capture, editing, and printing, then the cost is a subordinate consideration. Then there are those of us who have played with printing and are getting angry with the cost of replacement ink cartridges; at that point, the glow goes off the printing process and the local store offering printing becomes much more attractive… 🙂
On the other hand, logical though Leen is, if you look at this as a hobby, something to get better at and enjoy, then you do it yourself, even though having your prints done by a print shop is cheaper in the long run, and probably less aggravating. You really have to examine your motivations, here, and I suspect most of us come down somewhere in the middle.
I love to print at home, but if I had a project of many copies of something, I’d certainly take it somewhere else to be printed , if the price was right.
I know. It’s a hobby. I prefer to print my own images too. Especially because I have everything profiled exactly. Maybe the best way is to invest in a cheap printer, inks and paper and when you need a quality enlargement to have it printed.
Some(5)friends of mine in the local cameraclub here in town recently ordered an Epson 4000; their intention is to use it together. Might be a good idea too. For only 1/5 of the cost they have a high quality printer, relatively cheap pigmented inks in 220 ml cartridges, a large format (16 inches wide) prints option and as this printer will be used 5x as often, no clogged heads anymore.
I enjoy printing my own pictures as a hobby and have been very happy with my Canon S9000 (older brother of the i9100). Must have done over 300 8×10’s including the throws-aways, and nearly 50 of 11×14 and 13×19’s. Cost of ink cartidges is certainly more than paper. I had not compare the costs with Costco’s 8×10’s but I am sure printing my own cost more.
On the other hand, the pleasure of a nice print taking shape right before your eyes had been priceless! The Canon is very fast too. However, if I were to invest in a new photo printer today, I would very likely get the 7-ink Epson 2200. Or the 8 1/2" instead of the 13" carriage model, if it’s for prints no larger than 8 x10.
Beth in her post #3 is right. In the eight months since I bought the Canon S-9000, I have not had a single incident of clogging. If the printer had not been used over a week or two, the next print command brings on some self cleaning cycles which I assume uses up some ink. That’s about it. A new printer head for my printer costs around $170. But there’s no need to have it done by factory service. The new printer came with the head in a sealed package with intsllation instrucions. All very simple and easy. It’s a very nice feature that the user can do the head replacement him/her-self.
Shan, ya the head cleanings use up ink so basically all printers are alike…if ya don’t use them on a regular basis you can expect some clogging…I guess i don’t have this problem since i do print at least once a week.
Mmmmm. Good points all. Although cost will be a factor (isn’t it always), one of the reasons I’m considering a printer is black and white from digital. From what I’ve read, B & W from digital files at a photolab is ‘iffy’ at best. And MOST home printers are MUCH better at colour than B&W. In fact they often suffer from B&W prints that exhibit a distinct colour cast, with the Epson 2200 and HP 7960 (and other ‘grey-cartridge’ HP printers) suffering least. I’ve also heard that Epson’s can suffer from clogged heads, particularly with sporadic use. So Leen’s ‘sharing’ friends may have the right idea.
In the next few days, I will be taking some files to a Photolab. The next challenge will be convincing someone at a store (or elsewhere) to run me some prints of these files off some of these printer choices (God, I hate BEGGING). Of course I know that’s not a very scientific evaluation because there are MANY variables, but it might be a starting point.
FWIW, my HP was left turned on and unused for over two months summer before last, while I was galivanting around the country and then lolling around in a hospital bed. I didn’t even have to run the utility when I finally did get around to using it. No clogs at all. So why would I think of replacing an HP with a Canon? Will somebody remind me?! Maybe when you subtract the cost of ink used for running utilities, those HP cartridges aren’t as expensive after all.
There’s a good review of the HP 7960 in the Popular Photography & Imaging of February 2004. They basically said it’s a well priced color printer and superior B&W printer. Although the gray cartridge is used more often, even when printing B&W.
But… I’m so tired of throwing in the garbadge can an half emptry cartridge because it’s empty of red, but still has plenty of Cyan or Yellow… I’d go for the Canon with it’s individual thank.
Raymond, I think a number of the current HP printers use the grey cartridge now. However, the 7960 is currently the only one with the ‘pro’ version of ‘Photoret’ and this apparently does make a difference to the print quality.
And, yes, I’m reading many complaints about the high cost of consumables, not only because the colours are not all separate, but because the ‘change’ warning comes quite a bit before the tanks are really empty. HP is renowned for engineering. And engineers are renowned for ‘overengineering’. Perhaps someone decided that they’d rather have a little ink thrown away than one spoiled print because the cartridge ran out in the middle. Well, that’s the ‘benevolent’ theory anyway. 🙂 And, as Beth points out, HP’s more expensive design seems to have eliminated, or at least diminished, the clogging problem.
I’ve learned my lesson on the HP empty warnings…..I’ve gone a week or more on the black tank after the first warning before the fading is noticeable. (My HP is my primary text printer also; one of those four-in-one machines.) I’m inclined to believe it wasn’t company engineers who set the warning point but rather the company accountants…
well i looked up the HP 7960 on Steve’s Digi’s and the black and white image they used looks sepia to me while they said the Canon’s i900 that they compared it to ( side by side)looked blueish . So, as far as i’m concerned, it’s all subjective.
The B&W prints I pull off my Canon printer are sadly lacking in D-max, and increasing contrast does not improve any. But there does not seem to be any bluish tint that I can detect. It’s one of the saving graces in having poor eyesight. 😉
I was able to print I think 150 pages *after* the printer driver told me that there was no more ink in the black cartridge. I suspect either bad business rules from HP or way too much carefullness for their customers.
Since then, I always wait untill there’s actually no more ink in the thank before throwing it away, even if I loose a photo paper sheet. Throwing away 1/4 full cartridge, several times a year, will cost more than a pack of photo paper, so I’m still saving money.
Well, I just got some enlargements back from the photolab and they are … ‘OK’. My biggest complaint is additional contrast in the prints. Details have been lost in both shadows and highlights. Not dramatic, but certainly noticeable and ultimately annoying. On the ‘bright’ side (figuratively speaking), the colour was pretty much bang on. Perhaps the tiniest, wee bit of extra blue in the prints, but then the contrast bump is also affecting colour overall.
I sent a ‘duotone’ (as opposed to a straight B&W) and, other than the aforementioned contrast problem, this looks pretty good.
One of the other ‘interesting’ lessons I learned has to do with ‘sizing’. I chose to have some 6 x 9" prints made, because this is just under the maximum print size from a 6MP Rebel at 300DPI (it’s really about 6-7/8 x 10-1/4), and it was half the price of 8 x 10’s. But now that I have 6 x 9 prints, I can find no ‘ready-made’ albums, mats, or frames for this format (at least in the few stores I perused this afternoon). The closet ‘album’ configuration I could find was an 11 x 14" scrapbook size, using acid-free paper and fiddly ‘corners’. Nice generous borders for each photo, I guess.
What Brent said. It’s a hobby, and part of the creation process is printing the result. Also, if I’m not happy with the result, I can go back and tweak the driver settings or the image itself and try again. When you take it to a commercial printer, you lose that control. However, when I printed a hundred Christmas cards…double sided, 8x10s, I took it to a shop! Bert
I’ve always been an HP person, but their drivers for X are a constant problem if you want to print from any applications other than Word or PE/PS. I really, really like the way the heads are in the cartridges so they get changed every time you get new ink, and I like the reports on the longevity of the ink system for the new medium format printer (can’t remember the model number), but the driver thing is just a nuisance.
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