Depressed over an interpolation issue…

GF
Posted By
Gillian_Frances_Keeley
Jan 7, 2007
Views
558
Replies
19
Status
Closed
Hello, I’m depressed over an interpolation issue.

I’m working on a brochure for a client. Their brief was ‘as cost effective as poss’ and they left a very brisk lead time.

Some of the images they supplied were low resolution screenshots taken from a monitor. I advised my client that the print scale would be restricted by resolution constraints.

My spec for supplied images is 300ppi at 100% print scale. The first thing I do with all supplied images is rescale without resampling.

At 100%, these screenshots looked sweet enough in the layout – the size of a large postage stamp, still they weren’t legible.

I’ve never offered to interpolate images in the past, partly because I haven’t needed to, and partly because I’m aware that this will degrade the image. I don’t want to take the risk.

Still if ever there was a case for it, this was. So I experimented by scaling the images to 150% of the print scale, resampling to 300ppi.

I explained that resampling might be an option, advised the client of the risk of degrading the image and presented a visual of the option. I said that the decision to go with an interpolated image must lie with him, because I didn’t want to take it.

He wanted the bigger images, but wouldn’t take responsibility for the decision. I can understand this, but I wasn’t prepared to make it myself. Now we are bothe cheesed off, him because he hasn’t got what he wanted and me because I’ve put in a load of free time in an attempt to help which has caused nothing but problems.

How should I have handled this? Have I been unprofessional? If I produce a 720dpi inket proof of my interpolated image, how far can I trust it as representation of the offset litho printed image? Are then any codes or calculations I can use as a guideline for safe interpolation of images to suit offset litho or digital output?

I’d welcome any advice and support. I think I’ve probably screwed up, but I was just doing my best to help my client. Sorrowfully, Gill.
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alan_ruta
Jan 7, 2007
Listen to what some other posters offer, but in my experience there is little you can do. Resampling the images to 300 dpi should help some. There are cases where sharpening will help but if the quality is so poor to begin with, probably not in this instance.

Even if you uplace an image at 72dpi it will still be resampled someways along the process. When the imagesetter or CTP has to make plates interpolated pixels must come from somewhere–the RIP that drives the CTP perhaps.

If you resampled so the images are placed at 100% and 300dpi you will at least know what to expect.

You did nothing wrong. He is a jerk for expecting something from nothing. GIGO.

There are programs available to sample up files–but from a screen capture. Fuggedaboudit.

alan
GF
Gillian_Frances_Keeley
Jan 7, 2007
Dear Alan,
I love you for saying he’s a jerk, because I needed a kind word. You can count ‘providing much needed support to Gill Keeley’ as your secret good turn for the day – Any other AA members will know what I’m talking about! 🙂

All the same, whether I was right or wrong to play it this way, I played it wrong! I confused the client, or mismanaged the control of his perceptions. I’ll play it differently next time.

I still don’t know if I should say to clients ‘well we can interpolate to size up’ or leave it as their problem, which it sort of is and sort of isn’t.

I mean,if interpolation HAD produced satisfactory results for my client, I would have served him better. But if it had been a disaster at the print production stage, I’d have been blamed.

GK
B
Bernie
Jan 7, 2007
I still don’t know if I should say to clients ‘well we can interpolate to size up’ or leave it as their problem, which it sort of is and sort of isn’t.

The thing to do is to hardline it. (we can interpolate, but if we do, you must accept the job whether or not you’re happy with it) Depending on the customer, I’ll even go as far as making them sign something to that effect or pay ahead of time.

"Price, quality, speed, pick any two"
GF
Gillian_Frances_Keeley
Jan 7, 2007
Thanks Nomad. I think you’re right, and that’s where my instinct led me. Tho’ I could tell the client didn’t understand. He seemed to think I should know if it’d work and take the responsibility. I don’t know how much I could rely on an inkjet proof to try and judge it.

I’d be really interested to hear from any professional designers who do interpolate on behalf of their clients… the results they get, the way they pitch it to clients, any guidelines for interpolation.
EH
Ed_Hannigan
Jan 7, 2007
He’s asking you to do the impossible and doesn’t or can’t understand that. You can’t create something good from nothing, which is what he’s provided. Maybe you can make him understand that.

Tell him professionals at the Adobe Forums agree with you, if that helps.
B
Bernie
Jan 7, 2007
He seemed to think I should know if it’d work and take the responsibility.

My line usually is I don’t think it will look good. What you find acceptable I don’t know.

No, I am not a salesperson (far from it)
GF
Gillian_Frances_Keeley
Jan 7, 2007
Thanks Ed, thanks Nomad. Where I went wrong was giving the option of interpolating in the first place. It was stupid of me. He was happy enough before I suggested the possibility. Sigh.
EH
Ed_Hannigan
Jan 7, 2007
Maybe when it looks like crap he won’t notice. I’ve seen that.

There are programs that claim to increase size cleanly, but I wouldn’t trust them. DOP Upsizing is one that does an okay job.

<http://www.outbackphoto.com/filters/filters.html>

Make sure he knows you went above and beyond to try to satisfy his unrealistic demands. In a nice way, of course.
EH
Ed_Hannigan
Jan 7, 2007
Wish I had thought of DOP earlier. Not promising miracles.
B
Bernie
Jan 7, 2007
Maybe when it looks like crap he won’t notice. I’ve seen that.

When I was outputting stuff for other people, I quickly lerned that when I thought "this job looks great" the customer would find something wrong with it and when I thought "this is crap", the customer would love it…

Quality is in the eye of the beholder
P
Phosphor
Jan 7, 2007
I’m not sure I’ve ever seen something like this, but it sure would be good to have handy, that is:

An EXTREMELY simple brochure or one-sheet explanation, in language as plain as possible, with a few obvious images, that could explain to anyone with 3 more IQ points than a mold spore why images can’t be up-rezzed without serious compromises in quality. I’ve seen explanations, but often they’re geared to people who already have at least some understanding of how things work.

As graphic artists/designers/production monkeys, if we don’t have a sales force acting as a brick wall barrier between the off-the-street client and ourselves, it is incumbent upon us to at least try to educate them on some of the things we do. Obviously, there’s no need to make them understand every small bit, but when it comes to things like the reason behind needing higher-resolution images for printing (and how to know when an image is the right type and big enough), it can only benefit us if the client has at least a partial clue. The investment on the front end of the project often pays dividends on the back end, in saving frustration, argument, redos, change-charging and of course, time. And when the client really gets it (Honest…you can see it in their eyes and hear it in the way they talk when they do actually get it) they feel better about working with you.

Of course, an unscrupulous person will be happy to take advantage of charging a client for every tiny mistake they make, but I personally don’t think that’s a very nice or wise thing to do.

Conversely, how one handles change-charges is different if the client is someone who should already know not to use a web images for print brochures, to cite just one example. I have little respect for employees of some other company’s art department who are supposed to know the ins-and-outs of those little things we work so hard to learn.

Maybe I should have a go at putting that brochure or one-sheet together, using the simplest and clearest possible explanations about image sizes and types, then release it into the wild.
EH
Ed_Hannigan
Jan 7, 2007
Go for it! Could be very useful, but don’t underestimate the sheer pig-headed stupidity of some clients.
PT
Phil_Taz
Jan 8, 2007
Gillian,
I came in late, but I get this one all the time, and 999 times out of 10, if the client wont make the call, they dont understand the problem and if, later on , they get to understand the problem, they will try to get out of paying you for trying.

Next time, do a sample image and print it on the best printer you have and show them that.

If you have a job that was printed previously (commercially) and a desktop printout of the same job, that can show them the difference between the desktop quality and the offset (?) print quality, which will let them make that call…

If you put in free time on a hopeless case, you will know next time to do a sample and put the ball in their court earlier.

my 2c….
WZ
Wade_Zimmerman
Jan 8, 2007
Are you saying that the resampled images look alright when printed to an inkjet? If so they are probably going to be fine. If they don’t show pixelation and the print you made from the inkjet is the same size as the reproduction on press.

I would say though the client is quite a bit misguided and either knows nothing about reproduction or doesn’t have the option as they don’t have the rights to use the original files.

But in any case send one of the files to a printer you have used and might use on this project and ask them what they think.

What does it look like to you how far do you have to zoom in before you see pixelation?

I won’t make any judgments about this situation as to who is a fault it is a technology workflow situation and it is not as finite as we would all like it to be though it is getting better.

Good luck.
DK
Doug_Katz
Jan 8, 2007
I wanna know how anything happens 999 times out of 10! 🙂
PT
Phil_Taz
Jan 9, 2007
thats exactly what I meant!
B
Bernie
Jan 9, 2007
I wanna know how anything happens 999 times out of 10!

Very easy: most customers you have to go through this 100 times. The smarter customers (about 10% of them) only need to go over it 99 times so for 10 customers you’ll have it happen 999 times on average

😛
DK
Doug_Katz
Jan 9, 2007
I thank you both for that enlightening and enjoyable excursion into the mysteries of math and human frailty. Wonderful!

I understand almost eight fifths of what you’ve explained here. 🙂
GF
Gillian_Frances_Keeley
Jan 10, 2007
Tee Hee!
I just want to thank everyone for your comments.
Love Gill xxx

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