Color Management & profiles

JE
Posted By
John_Elftmann
Apr 13, 2004
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471
Replies
16
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Closed
I have a question re. color calibration. I’ve calibrated my monitor with a hardware utility, but now need to know how to use this profile with Elements so what I see on screen matches what gets printed by the developer (which, if I remember correctly, uses sRGB).

I’m using Capture One SE to convert my RAW files. Do I set the output profile for Capture One to my custom profile, or sRGB? If my custom profile, at what point (if any) do I configure elements to use sRGB, or do I save my edited images with my custom profile?

Thanks,
John
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BB
brent_bertram
Apr 13, 2004
John,
If you need your output in the sRGB space, you should be working in Elements in Limited Color Management mode, which is the sRGB space. The monitor profile does not factor into your image going to the developer. It is used by Elements for calibrating the display of your image on the monitor, Ian Lyons Image Flow < http://www.btinternet.com/~ian.lyons/ps7-colour/ps7_color.gi f>

..
<http://www.normankoren.com/Color_mgmt_flow_Sachs.gif>

If your image looks good to you, and you save it with the sRGB space imbedded , that should be all your developer will need to accurately represent that image on another color managed system.

Your image has 3 RGB numbers for each pixel. The imbedded profile ( sRGB ) in this case informs any color management aware application how to interpret those numbers.

🙂

Brent
MG
Michael_Gruby
Apr 19, 2004
Is this a correct understanding of color management and Profiles: I have an image on a pc in Photo Shop Elements. I have a print of the image that doesn’t look like the monitor. Using the built in Adobe Gamma I adjust the monitor to look like a print, so what you see is what you get.

I load the same image in Photo Shop Elements on an imac. It looks great on the imac. I make level adjustments and color variations to the image on the pc to look as close as possible to the imac.

I save the images on each machine setting color management to "use printer color management," then print each image on the same printer, which has a custom color profile.

Should both pictures theoretically look alike?

Thanks
Mike Gruby
BB
brent_bertram
Apr 19, 2004
" I have a print of the image that doesn’t look like the monitor. Using the built in Adobe Gamma I adjust the monitor to look like a print, so what you see is what you get.
Backwards, Mike . You should never adjust your pc to match a print ( at least not in a color managed workflow ). You should be able to calibrate and profile your display to get rid of the disparity. Then , ALL your prints will be close to what your monitor displays. Good reading on the Adobe Gamma and other color management issues at <http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps7-colour/ps7_2.htm> .

You should also look at Ian Lyons’ tutorial on printing from Pshop 7, essentially the same as elements, < http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps7_print/ps7_print_mac_2.h tm> .

🙂

Brent
MG
Michael_Gruby
Apr 19, 2004
Brent,
Thanks —
" I have a print of the image that doesn’t look like the monitor. Using the built in Adobe Gamma I adjust the monitor to look like the print, so what you see is what you get."

The print was printed from Photo Shop prio to any adjustments. The adjustments that I described were in the monitor calibration, not in Photo Shop. Does this change your analysis?

Mike
BB
brent_bertram
Apr 20, 2004
No, not really.
The first step in setting up for color management, is to profile and calibrate your monitor. It is better done with profiling software and a hardware device like a photospectrometer , but Adobe Gamma can give decent results .

Then, for best print accuracy, a non-colormanaged target is printed on the paper of choice. That target is analyzed with a photospectrometer or other color measuring instrument to see what adjustments are required to print the target accurately. Those adjustments are then coded into a media profile, which then becomes the color correction agent on your system. Using the output profile in the Print Preview output space puts all the color conversions in one place and should result in the best printed output possible.

I do agree with you up to a point. If your prints do not come close to matching your screen, then you need to work on your monitor calibration, but not by adjusting it to any print. The calibration needs to be adjusted to the "standard" , independent of a particular print.

My monaco screen profile is created by the colorimeter measuring the colors displayed under software control, and building an "offset" table to be loaded into the LUT , in order to "standardize" or calibrate my display. That process is independent of printing. The Adobe Gamma calibration is also independent of printing, however, accurately printing what is on the screen requires accurate profiles for all the devices involved in the process.

<http://www.normankoren.com/Color_mgmt_flow_Sachs.gif>

Hope I haven’t midunderstood your intent , and blathered on needlessly.

🙂

Brent
JG
james_glasgow
Apr 22, 2004
I’m trying to solve a problem with this, so I hope I’m not hijacking this post. I recently switched to a lab that wants sRGB profile so I have to use the "limited color management" setting (had been using no color management previously). It seems every other time I open PSE my colors look off (ie, white is kind of pink) so I’ve been adjusting my monitor settings with Adobe gamma to correct this. It’s really a pain to recalibrate my monitor every couple of days. Is this normal or is this something I can fix in PSE?
BB
brent_bertram
Apr 22, 2004
Hi James,
What comes to mind is whether or not Adobe Gamma Loader.exe is in the startup folder to automatically load, and whether or not you can see the screen color shift at the time that it loads.

I use the Monaco Gamma utility and loader, and I see the same phenomena . My display shifts ever so slightly toward the pink as the video LUT is adjusted by the monitor profile offsets. Since it happens both when calibrated by eye or calibrated by colorimeter, I suspect that it may be a function of how my screen looks under the artificial light I’m using . Sometimes image pinkness ( or other color casts ) can be avoided by using the IgnoreEXIF utility , downloadable from Adobe, which contains color information from digital camera that is not always accurate. I always use that utility and prefer to start with untagged images .

It may be necessary to calibrate your display more and more frequently as it ages , ( mine is 4 years old , I calibrate monthly ), but a daily calibration to remove a visible fault is excessive, I suspect. Can you afford a hardware solution ? There are hardware based calibration packages starting about $99 , which will take some guesswork and human error out of the equation, as well as give you a "second opinion" on the appropriate gamma settings. My Monaco sensor is more repeatable than my eyes <G> .

🙂

Brent
MG
Michael_Gruby
Apr 26, 2004
So, I am at a loss as to which profile to select when doing color management on the iMac. There is no specific profile for the hp.

I have PS Elements 2 on a PC and iMac. I have noticed that when in the PC, Print Preview, Printer Colorspace, the drop down has an item "Printer Color Management." This line does not appear in the iMac installation. I use the same hp office jet d145 for both machines. There is an option in the iMac for a Postscript Printer, that according to the manual should only appear when there is a post script printer attached.

So, is this going to be a trial and error through all the profiles, or do I have an installation issue?

Mike
BB
brent_bertram
Apr 26, 2004
Michael,
From what I’ve seen of the HP’s , they have their own system. I think the best you will get is to use the Printer color management option on the PC side and the Postscript color management option on the MAC side.
Take a look at option 2) in Ian Lyons’ tutorial , that’s where I think you should be. By the way, You will not see both "Printer Color Management" and "Postscript color management" listed at the same time. If the computer "thinks" the printer is Postscript capable, that is the preferred choice.
< http://www.computer-darkroom.com/ps7_print/ps7_print_mac.htm>

🙂

Brent
BB
Barbara_Brundage
Apr 26, 2004
Michael, the reason you see "postscript color management" is that this is built into the system in Panther (and maybe jaguar). It’s not listed in the manual because it was not in 10.1.x when PE 2 was released.
FL
Fred_Lawman
Apr 26, 2004
I don’t know if this is the right place to ask this question since I’m new to this forum, but here goes. I need some help. I recently installed Photoshop elements 2.0 that came bundled with an Epson scanner. I’m trying to calibrate my monitor, but I can’t find the adobe gamma program. I’ve gone to Start>Settings>Control panel, but its not on the menu list. I can find an adobe gamma loader, but it does not seem to do anything. Any suggestions?
BG
Byron Gale
Apr 26, 2004
Fred,

What type of machine / OS are you using?

I had the same thing happen to me when I installed PSE2 on my Win98SE machine… no Adobe Gamma in the Control Panel.

I manually found the "Adobe Gamma.cpl" applet in "C:\Program Files\Common Files\Adobe\Calibration" and was able to successfully run it by simply double-clicking it, there.

This seems to be a common failing of the PSE2 installation on older Win versions.

Byron
BB
brent_bertram
Apr 26, 2004
"I manually found the "Adobe Gamma.cpl" applet in "C:\Program Files\Common Files\Adobe\Calibration" and was able to successfully run it by simply double-clicking it, there."

Also, right click "run with control panel" works when you find it.

🙂

Brent
J
jhjl1
Apr 27, 2004
That’s a loaded question and can’t be answered without much more detail.
1. What color space are your files in?
2. How do you use your files in the end?
3. Do you have a profile for your printer?
4. Do you send out to professional labs?
The more detail the better. If you provide this, our resident color management expert (Brent) will be around sooner or later and will be able to help you.

—
Have A Nice Day, 🙂
James Hutchinson
http://www.pbase.com/myeyesview
http://www.myeyesviewstudio.com/
wrote in message
Which choice is best in color settings: no color management; limited
color management; full color management.
I’m trying to figure out why my prints are so far off from what i see
on the monitor. (SEE: too pink fleshtones below)
BB
brent_bertram
Apr 27, 2004
With a properly profiled display, you should be able to get a very close print on your printer using color management. You should be using the Canon recommended paper, or if you want to practice a lot, the Epson Heavyweight Matte, which does a good job of being faithful in color ( and it’s pretty cheap <G> .

Here is a quote from an older post on the Photoshop forum . "Lawrence Hudetz – 09:37am Oct 8, 2003 Pacific (#3 of 5) Edited: 08-Oct-2003 at 09:38am PST

I have a Canon S9000 and experience really great prints, Derek. What I didn’t see in your posts is exactly what’s happening. Are you being critical of the subtle color errors the Canon produces? Mostly in B&W, I might add. Full color is superb.

For Canon your setup should be as follows:
Print Options:
Source Space>Document
Print Space Profile: BJ Color Printer Profile 2000
Intent: Perceptual.

You can find that profile in the drop down menu in Print Space Profile.

Next, Click "Properties"

Media Type: Choose Matte for just about everything, except office documents. Then Plain Paper is fine. The other media types don’t print as well as Matte, IMHO.

Print Quality: You can leave it on High for now.

Color Adjustment: Auto works, but clicking Manual and playing with the various selections in the Print Type Box gives some variations. I would stick with Photo here. Leave everything else alone for now!

Now run your print.

Does it look better? "

🙂

Brent
FL
Fred_Lawman
Apr 28, 2004
Byron and Brent,

I found it, just as you outlined! Thank you very much.

Fred

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