Daryl,
From what I’ve read, and I certainly would be interested in confirming, since activation writes to an unused sector on the hard drive, it reportedly wreaks havoc with multi-boot drives, and those from certain manufacturers (like IBM that ships units with a hidden service partion for their Rapid Restore PC utility). So I would be interested to find out if that even bears out – specifically, can you install it safely on multi-boot systems.
Well I can certainly install it on a computer kitted out entirely with IBM drives Tony
—
Carol
(Posted from the UK)
Tony,
Now that you mention it, writing activiation data to an unused sector does sound familiar. If that is the case and it does create havoc on multi-boot computers, then that is the best reason I’ve heard yet for doing away with activation. Any process such as activation that is required for an application to run properly should be designed to be non-intrusive in the manner one might operate their computer.
Thankfully WinXP has long since eliminated my having any real need for a multi-boot system. However, if I find Photobars CS works with the retail PS CS release, then I’d like to verify it works under Win2K as well as XP. While I could use a beta tester with Win2K for that purpose, I’ll probably just install PS CS temporarily on another Win2K computer, knowing that I’ll have 30 days to work with it before the lack of activation prevents continued use.
Carol,
Well I can certainly install it on a computer kitted out entirely with IBM drives Tony
Interesting. Do your IBM units have Rapid Restore PC installed? How old are the units? Is it IBM hard drives only, or IBM machines. Rapid Restore PC, which ships on all late-model IBM desktops and ThinkPads is a "Go Back", or Norton Ghost – type of utility. The units with this installed have a special service partition created that is not accessable with normal tools, like partition magic. This service partition allows one to create system snapshots and HD images on the fly, or via a schedule.
Additionally Carol, do any of your IBM units have the embedded security subsystem chip in them?
I don’t really know that Activation affects this service partition at all. Here’s what I read:
"SafeCast, however, does a number of bad things to your system and leaves pieces of itself all over the place. Even the uninstall doesn’t remove it completely, although Brett’s report tells you what to look for and how to get rid of it. One of the things I like least is that the program writes to an undocumented sector on the boot track, which may interfere with other security systems, differently formatted hard drives, or multi-OS boot programs."
From the following article:
<
http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,4149,933439,00.asp>
I don’t even know that Photoshop uses SafeCast. But as I mentioned in my first post, I’d be interested to confirm this.
Forget about multi boot systems. It’s a moot point.
The software only runs on WinXP and Win2K. This isn’t a case where you’re running it on Win98 and Win2K. Even if you do install on a PC such as that, you can only do it under Win2K anyway.
Bob
But Bob, that’s not the point. You may not wish to run photoshop on multiple boot systems (even though that’s what Daryl’s comment is about), but that doesn’t mean that folks will not have multiple boot systems or specially formatted HD’s, with which Activation may interefere.
I’m not trying to be argumentative, rather, just clarifying the point, per the article I read in PC Mag about SafeCast.
As a follow up, I was in the Creative Suite forum, and apparently, there is a user with an IBM ThinkPad G40 – which I’m pretty sure has Rapid Restore PC on it, and thus a service partition. He was able to install with no problems on that unit, so IF any machines are affected, it isn’t the ones with those hidden service partitions.
I am one of the people with a multiple OS boot system who is thinking of an upgrade to the new Photoshop.
I have no intention of trying to run it under Linux or DOS 6.2, but if upgrading the software means my AMD XP 1700+ 3/4 gig chip memory computer will no longer do the other tasks I have it for…. Or is there a "Upgrade Photoshop and get a free dedicated computer" card in the box?
It looks like someone from Adobe needs to weigh in on this one.
Bill
Bill,
If your system was working well with Photoshop 7, it should work for Photoshop CS as well.
Others,
We run multi boot systems in house (both lanuage and OS varients) and haven’t experienced issues with these configurations.
–steph
Steph,
My system still is working well with Photoshop 7.01. However, it is a multi-purpose machine and not dedicated to Photoshop alone. I am not the sole user, but share it with my wife and children.
They do NOT share the Epson 2200 printer. That is MINE!!!!!!!!!
Bill
Stephanie,
Thanks for the insight. My question regarding multi-boot systems is whether or not multiple installations to each O/S of the same Photoshop CS license will require activation and, if so, does that introduce any problems with activation? Depending upon where the activation file is hidden, it might be that only one activation is required since that location may been seen by all installed instances of that Photoshop CS license on the system.
Thanks,
Daryl
Daryl,
Each install will require an activation but as they’re on the same boot drive, would count as one machine activation. We don’t anticipate problems but if there were any, the user would be prompted to reactivate – this also wouldn’t increase your machine count.
Does this help answer your questions?
–steph
That definitely answers my questions Stephanie.
Thank you,
Daryl
Daryl, Thank you for pointing me to this thread.
It seems that if we have multidisks with multiboots each installation requires a separate activation. (As Stephanie Schaefer clearly states)
My case is, I did the first installation w/o activating three days ago on my regular first disk with several partitions where I do most of my work, but also use for the Net, testing,…. Yesterday I boot from another hard drive where I have installed the few "mission critical" applications cleanly, w/o gadgets, games, even e-mail,…
I installed PSCS (on one of the parttions of this 2nd HD) and got an inmediate message that I had to activate in order to use the program as the grace period had expired !!!
The real problem is that I tried to see a picture in PS7 and the program gave me an error message (about a now missing component if I remember well) and did not open either.
Now I am puzzled and worried.
I installed PSCS (on one of the parttions of this 2nd HD) and got an inmediate message that I had to activate in order to use the program as the grace period had expired !!!
Two things. First, I’m not surprised. It seems to be "tribal knowledge" that changing your hard drive will trigger the activation event. I suspect that you need to call Adobe Customer Service and see if they will allow you to install it on that second hard drive.
This is one of the reasons that I am advocating "deactivation". The ability to remove activation from one drive, and reactivate it on another, so the license follows you. As it sits, I think you are going to have to call ACS and hope they believe you. ( I would think they would).
The second point is the idea that your 30 day grace period is gone. Disturbing.
wrote :
<snipped>
This is one of the reasons that I am advocating "deactivation".
<snipped>
Activation sucks… and the more i see folks having a hassle… the more i feel it’s a question of anal retentiveness. Ultimately the only peope who’ll get screwed are the genuine users… At the moment there’s a problem with the crack… in 30 days (or so) that probem will vanish… so gets effed? The genuine user/buyer….. It’s just nuts… i mean… <throws hands up in gesture of sheer disbelief>.
Cheers…
JJ
This activation s**t is BS. I’ve been purchasing Adobe products for 10 years. I have two desktop systems and two laptops. I install the same set of software on all of them. This way if a machine crashes and I need to get the work out, I just switch. I don’t pirate Adobe software, I’ve sunk enough cash into them. If this is BIG BROTHER Adobe’s way of treating it’s customers than maybe I’ll stick with prior versions.
We have a thread with almost 1,000 posts on activation issues, called "Activation". Personally, I don’t necessarily disagree with you, but you may find some value in reading the thread.
See:
YrbkMgr "Activation" 11/9/03 12:38pm </cgi-bin/webx?13/946>
Well Tony, I do disagree with him. He’s using the same software on 4 computers. He’s violating the EULA and I have no sympathy for him whatsoever.
You certainly shouldn’t either since it’s people like him that the activation was designed to stop.
Bob
He’s using the same software on 4 computers.
I missed that bob. You’re right
I agree he is abusing the letter of the law but think Bob is being rather hard on him.
Surely the real villains are those who give copies to friends and those who duplicate and sell pirate copies and write and distribute cracks. Assuming Stan does not let anyone else use his machine how is Adobe missing out on revenue? As he says he has been purchasing Adobe products for ten years now.
In case anyone is interested I myself have CS activated on one machine and 7.01 on another for backup and no one gets hold of my software.
Ken
My 30 day grace period expired after 30 hours, and the activation thing says that I have to activate later every time I try to activate. I can’t even check to see if Photoshop runs this time, and I can’t activate. Since this is a $1,000 program, and since I have spent two days just trying to install, and I didn’t get the thirty days that Adobe promised, I am going to try to figure out how to return this program, and wait until the bugs are ironed out and buy it at a later time. I don’t see that I have any other options other than to look for hacks for a legally purchased copy on the internet. π
Of course I’m being hard on him. He came here ranting and raving that he could no longer violate the EULA. He and others like him are the very target of activation. Legitimate users are the victims.
Bob
We will have to agree to differ Bob although his attitude was a bit abrasive for a professional forum.
Few people can feel more strongly about piracy than I do but I can see many perfectly reasonable reasons why someone might want to install software on more than two machines. Maybe Adobe should give the matter some thought as computer usage is changing. I for one would be prepared to pay a modest fee for the privilege but to have to pay twice at shrink rap rate is a bit much when I can only use one PC at a time.
An example for you to consider is the customer who wants Photoshop on his laptop to view and email photos out in the field but his main computer needs Photoshop to prepare stills for Adobe Premiere 6.5. Some projects can take hours rendering and it is not unreasonable to want to process photos on a third machine while waiting. Apart from quoting from EUlA, of which I am fully aware of please explain how that warrants being Adobe’s number one target and source of lost revenue.
Something else software manufacturers may like to think about is the increasing trend in supplying reduced or no manuals. Do you remember version 3.0, a much simpler product had two manuals. The first manual was like the reference book supplied today and the second was a how to do it manual. CS does not come with a quick reference card anymore and your answer else ware that this does not matter as all the shortcuts are user configurable does not win favor with me. Reading through the CS manual there are many instances where you are referred to the help files which must be very frustrating for a newbie on a train (see paths for instance)
What this has meant is that the old saying about buying the software to get the excellent doc set applies less and less and people who in all other walks of life are honest use a copy from a friend.
I do feel a lot of the answer is in education and the schools, who benefit from educational discount, and parents should teach children that stealing software is the same crime as going into someoneΒs house and stealing their television. None of the people I have seen with illegal software would dream of stealing anything else which I always find most strange.
Sorry for the ramble,
Ken
please explain how that warrants being Adobe’s number one target and source of lost revenue.
Adobe has stated explicitly that the reason for activation is to curtail casual copying. Putting it on 4 machines is a prime example of that.
Bob
Putting it on 4 machines is a prime example of that.
Well, not entirely Bob. While it IS a violation of the EULA, my understanding of casual copying is that it is far more related to giving copies to people who have not paid for it.
I can’t imagine that Adobe has a philosophical problem with a user who wants to have it on several of their machines (at home for example), as long as the person who purchased it is the only person using it – not used concurrently. It is really no "skin off their nose".
The problem is, that by allowing that behavior, by specifying that excpetion, a whole new can of worms is opened up in terms of their ability to enforce the license, while avoiding, as much as possible, ambiguity that would prevent them from enforcing the EULA. So it’s one of those "well, we can’t adequately capture that behavior in a document, so it is safer to disallow it".
Add to that, the historical posture of software companies that want you to install only on ONE machine, but recognize the need for "fair use" in terms of back up copies, and recognizing the changing workforce of folks who work at their homes as well as an office.
That is not an endorsement for violating the EULA. If you agreed to the EULA, you agreed – pretty simple.
It’s all part of the same problem. Where do you draw the line. Adobe has drawn it at two machines with only one to be used at a time.
I’m trying not playing judge here and I’d feel a lot better without the activation, but I get a bit ticked off when people that activation was designed to stop are the ones that are complaining about it.
Please note that the above rant certainly does not apply to you.
Bob
Tony,
Thanks you for your excellent reply. I think you have hit on the very nub of the problem with activation that a lot of people see it as a very blunt instrument.
I think your understanding of casual copying is spot on and I am sure someone from Adobe would understand the example I gave would not threaten revenue.
I like you can not condone violating the EULA but I thought the points I made were worthy of consideration.
Bob,
With respect Adobe is rightly trying to protect revenue, which is in all our long term interests. Casual copying is one source of revenue bleed. The example I gave does not really fall into that catagory but as I said we will agree to differ.
Regards,
Ken
< Please note that the above rant certainly does not apply to you.
Or me I hope Bob as I am certainly not in that catagory and was only trying to have a sensible debate on the subject.
Regards,
Ken
Or me I hope Bob
Nor you. <g>
Bob
Please note that the above rant certainly does not apply to you
I know Bob – it’s business, not personal <grin>
Ken,
Bob and I have been hashing this out for quite some time now. I think it’s recognized that there is a fringe of users for whom the EULA is unnecessarily restrictive. But now that activation is here, it’s a matter of coping with how we implement workflow.
My suggestion is to allow deactivation, so that when you uninstall and deactivate, your license rolls back by one.
Adobe seems to view this reasonably favorably based on comments in various threads. Whether they implement it or not, remains to be seen. If they do, I can live with activation (at least in principle) and continue on my workflow without seeking Adobe’s approval every time I wish to move my app to a different machine.
Only time will tell though.
Peace,
Tony
None of the people I have seen with illegal software would dream of stealing anything else which I always find most strange.
No kidding. I’ve had button down exec types come up to me and say things like "So you’re into Photoshop huh? Can you get me a copy?" I look at them all innocent and say something like "Sure, give me your credit card and I’ll run down to CompUSA for you." That always gets a strained laugh. But the point is, these same people wouldn’t dream of walking into CompUSA and lifting the product off the shelf, yet they expect me fork over my 600 dollar software and compromise MY license.
My suggestion is to allow deactivation, so that when you uninstall and deactivate, your license rolls back by one.
I still don’t think you should need to uninstall if adobe were to allow for de-activation, rendering a system’s copy of PS useless. They could still have the 2 activation (at a time) limit, but you could have it installed across several machines. The activation/deactivation would force the user to deactivate at least one of the 2 before re-acitvating a third copy. I’m sure this scheme would sit best with legitimate users, while still allowing adobe’s right to include activation as a deterant to casual copying. Win-Win.
I still don’t think you should need to uninstall if adobe were to allow for de-activation, rendering a system’s copy of PS useless
True Dave – I just wasn’t being detailed enough. I thoroughly agree that if they allow activation/deactivation whereby the software is rendered inoperable after deactivation, I think they have a better chance of enforcing their license AND creating a flexible, non-intrusive workflow for their customers.
Long live the customer! π
And Tony…But not Win98 π
Bob
<laugh>
Soon enough. Oddly enough, if they go with a decent deactivation scheme, I will be upgrading A LOT of software, including OS’s. I want the shiney new features, just not on these terms.
Aside from the nuisance factor, I think that activation as it is now implemented is completely unfair. I have two desktop machines and a laptop. These machines are for my personal use. I should not have to buy two copies of Photoshop under these circumstances.
If you are one user with more than two machines, then I would call and get the additional machine or two activated over the phone. It’s a pain, but we do understand that a number of people who work alone do have more than two machines.
-Scott
Katherine, I’m sorry things aren’t working for you. I’m not sure what could have gone wrong on your machine to force activation before the 30 days were up. There are a couple of possibilities – changing the computers clock before activation, or the deletion of one of the hardware markers can cause it. For example, using XP’s system restore to go to a point before the software was installed can confuse things.
If you did spend two days trying to install, there may be other issues with your machine – things that prevent a clean install can also mess with the activation software and you may want to do some preventative maintenance (run Check Now on the hard drive with the fix checkbox checked, from the drive Properties dialog, Tools page) to make sure the system stays stable. Also check for viruses!
-Scott
wrote in message
My 30 day grace period expired after 30 hours, and the activation thing
says that I have to activate later every time I try to activate. I can’t even check to see if Photoshop runs this time, and I can’t activate. Since this is a $1,000 program, and since I have spent two days just trying to install, and I didn’t get the thirty days that Adobe promised, I am going to try to figure out how to return this program, and wait until the bugs are ironed out and buy it at a later time. I don’t see that I have any other options other than to look for hacks for a legally purchased copy on the internet. π
we do understand that a number of people who work alone do have more than two machines.
If I had known that, you wouldn’t have had to read through what must’ve seemed like thousands of posts. That solves the whole thing, for me.
I’m amazed, and that remark has just jettisoned Adobe to the highest level in my book.
If you are one user with more than two machines, then I would call and get the additional machine or two activated over the phone. It’s a pain, but we do understand that a number of people who work alone do have more than two machines.
Wow. I’m pleased to see adobe takes that stance. Seems to me that that’s what most of the rigormarole has been about.
I’m amazed, and that remark has just jettisoned Adobe to the highest level in my book.
me too.
Scott,
Thanks so much for such a well considered and well timed decision. As a hobbyist with my own legal copy of Photoshop CS, Illustrator 9, Premiere 6.5, LiveMotion 1, Photoshop Elements 2, and GoLive 6 I was wondering how I was going to explain the cost of another license for a product I already have, to my wife, now I am semi retired on a limited income:-)
May I thank you all for a product which has given me such enjoyment right back to 3.0 on Windows 3.1
Bob,
I guess we won’t have to argue the ethics anymore and can get back to enjoying this wonderful product..
Regards,
Ken
Sounds good to me. Now, I’m off to load PS on my other three computers.
Hey get off the phone, I gotta make a call. <g>
Bob
Now, I’m off to load PS on my other three computers.
wise a$$! π
Let us know how it goes – it’s up to the discretion of the activation personnel answering your call, so keep that in mind.
-Scott
wrote in message
Sounds good to me. Now, I’m off to load PS on my other three computers.
