Activation not cool issue.

Paul,

You have up to 30 days to activate Photoshop CS, so the problem you saw wasn’t really a problem as yet (PS CS hasn’t been out that long). Until you choose to activate it, you can just cancel and proceed past that reminder screen. If Adobe truly gave you a suggestion to reinstall your O/S, then someone there hasn’t been properly educated on the activation process. You are certainly using the software within the limits of the EULA, so there’s no problem there and I don’t see why you don’t just go ahead and activate it.

All in all, I’m against the idea of activation as well, particularly for the home user, but I take it as a necessary evil to help thwart the concern for casual copying of the software. That said, have I activated my PS CS yet? Nope.

Regards,

Daryl

Daryl, I should have written down the message that was given by the activation screen, but as I read it, it did not say I had 30 days. You may have 30 days from initial installation, but this was you can’t use it unless you activate NOW.

There is no misunderstanding about what Adobe told me. They said the problem was with my laptop and I had to reinstall my software.

I did reactivate it successfully, but am wondering if I am not able to access the internet or am outside of cellphone range? Also why would my successfully installed copy of PS need to be reactivated because my computer crashes?

Paul

I think Paul is not concerned about this time, but some time in the future, after the 30 days has expired. This is why a system reformat was probably suggested … it would be the only way to get another free 30 days.

I suspect that activation can also be made from telephone, as MS activations do, but there would be costs involved from a ship-to-shore connection, no doubt.

I think this is a valid concern about activation. Not one that means Adobe will throw the concept out, but I hope someone there spends some time thinking about it.

Hi Paul,

Yes, your concern is a valid one and I overlooked addressing it. My apologies. That is the one of the reasons I don’t like the idea of any process that requires the owner of a software license to activate their software by phone, interenet, etc. One of my hobbies is SCUBA diving and my laptop usually goes along on those trips with me for downloading my dive computer, taking notes, and in the case of my last trip to Honduras, scanning and editing images used in an on-site photography competition. However, access to a phone at that particular resort was almost non-existent and internet access was out of the question. The schedule was such that there was little time to spend searching for a phone, and I should have been able to use Photoshop without a delay for activation. OK, as I think of it, I "MIGHT" be able to do so by uinstalling and reinstalling Photoshop, but I assume not if the activation record remained intact. Instead, I expect I’d be immediately greeted by an "ACTIVATE NOW" dialog…having never done that, I don’t know the facts on what would happen. The only solution I know that should work is to keep a working crack available as a work-around solution.

I’m surprised you didn’t see a notice about the 30-day expiration, but I also see that I wasn’t exactly correct in what I said. On my Activation dialog screen I am told I have 26 days remaining to activate it and it is only when I cancel the screen that I receive a notice about the 30 day limit.

In your case, it sounds like you received very poor help from Adobe. Definitely the need for reinstalling the O/S should be very rare, except perhaps if you had installed XP as an upgrade over Windows 98 for example, where such upgrades have been known to cause problems. It is also true that a computer crash shouldn’t affect the activation since that information is written to an area of your boot drive that should be at little risk of corruption by a crash.

Regards,

Daryl

Daryl, you see my problem now. I am irritated by the fact that I had to reactivate NOW. Had it given me 30 days, I would feel comfortable taking it on a trip and not being stranded. As it is, I activated on the day I installed ( Friday ) and after the glitch occured, my new expensive software was useless without reactivating. Fortunately I am in the wilds of San Diego where my hotel has high speed internet access and my problems were solved with only a minor annoyance.

I called Adobe to ask why this happened and the reply was not reasonable. They never did ask, but I will mention here. Laptop running XP and is OEM to unit and not upgrade from any other OS.

Again, I don’t have a big issue with the company preventing theft of their software, but I shouldn’t be prevented from using the software I paid for because of a flaw in their activation routines. It is reasonable to demand that the software need internet or phone access to register and activate, but not reasonable that at any time duiring it’s use, it may stop working and demand internet or phone access to re-activate.

Given the poor reply from Adobe on the phone, I welcome any official reply from Adobe on this thread.

Paul

Product activation sucks and I pretty much think Adobe has went down the toilet lately. I demand the ability to install Photoshop on all my home computers, be able to upgrade and rebuild my system at any time without screwing around with product activation or needing internet access. Not everyone has internet by any means. I’m into performace building computers and am constantly changing my systems around and reinstalling software.

Adobe makes so much money yet those greedy freaks are going after stupid kids coping software … but for some reason they don’t know that those kids would never ever buy the software even if they didn’t get it for free. Those statistics are dumb that assume all those people with illegal versions of software could be buying customers. That’s crap. Plus, what business is really going to use pirated software? Um, I can’t think of any.

Adobe needs to get it’s head out of it’s ass and make things easier for their customers and not worry about the kids and product activation. They have enough paying customers to worry about…and plenty of money. It’s like the billion dollar kid rockstars complaining about the crappy MP3 files being downloaded of their music. I feel nothing for them.

I am irritated by the fact that I had to reactivate NOW. Had it given me 30 days, I would feel comfortable taking it on a trip and not being stranded. As it is, I activated on the day I installed ( Friday ) and after the glitch occured, my new expensive software was useless without reactivating.

When you reinstalled your OS again you wiped out one of the areas that the authorization code is located (the registry). This is broadly similar to uninstalling CS using the deactivate option. However, as is the norm, the duplicate authorization code remained buried in safe area of your HD. This duplicate version of the authorization code is the one that defines the computer as having already been activated. In circumstances such as you describe you are required to make an immediate reactivation to ensure that you aren’t trying to screw the system (i.e. multiple 30 days shots at using CS). It’s a pain but any other way and they might as well start giving CS out free with Cornflakes. The only way you’ll get another 30 days out of that computer is another HD or a low level format of the one you already have.

Hope this helps.

Ian,

When you reinstalled your OS again you wiped out one of the areas that the authorization code is located (the registry).

From what I’ve read, he DIDN’T reinstall his OS. PSCS crashed and required him to reactivate. Customer Service told him to reinstall his OS.

Which brings up the concern of the 30-days – 30 days from the day you first installed it, means that in the event of any glitch, your software is rendered useless. Not good.

Peace,
Tony

In article ,
wrote:

Have Adobe Photoshop CS installed on my home and laptop. Went smooth as silk. While on vacation in hotel room, was editing photo and computer locked up. When I did a reboot and opened PS CS again, I was told that I had to reactivate the product. It was no problem since I had internet access in the hotel, but what if I were on a cruise, or in the desert, or wherever? I called Adobe and their suggestion was for me to reinstall my operating system – what a joke – which I am not going to do.

I am all for product and license security, but I should be able to use software I paid license for.

This is precisely why there is a 30 day grace period before activation is required.

–marc

Paul/Marc/Ian/Daryl

From reading Paul’s comments (#5), I think Paul installed AND ACTIVATED on the first install of PSCS. PSCS was installed and activated when he took it on his trip to San Diego…..

Is this true Paul?

If so, what is going on??

Earl

I’m a Mac user. I’ve owned Photoshop since version 2.5, but I’m not going to upgrade to the CS version because of this activation BS, even though activation is currently limited to PC users. I think it’s a terrible trend and refuse to support it. It’s only a matter of time before Mac users get reamed with it too.

Marc,

This is precisely why there is a 30 day grace period before activation is required.

I’m missing on how that answer addresses the issue Paul brought up. Paul writes:

You may have 30 days from initial installation, but this was you can’t use it unless you activate NOW.

So… what about it?

This is a horrible story. And one reason I don’t support activation. Bad press like this has a way of biting good compaines on the a$$.

Earl,

Yes, Paul started off on his trip with PSCS loaded AND activated on his laptop. There was no O/S reinstallation done, but it was suggested by the Adobe customer service.

In short, Paul’s problem was that the Activation process somehow became corrupt and was forcing him into an "Activate Now" state; something which should never occur to anyone who has activated their software. Instead of recognizing from the boot sector that an activation had been previously completed, his PS CS software behaved as though that information was missing altogether, and he was past the 30-day grace period. That 30-day period would not have elapsed yet, so it seems overall the activation just got badly messed up.

Normally, once the software is activated, a reinstall of PS CS should be possible without any further need to reactivate as I understand things. The system hasn’t changed, the registry entry is intact, and the boot sector data is also intact….yet here is someone where none of that saved him from having to immediately activate. As Paul said, it’s a good thing he was where he had telephone access. I’d hate to have that happen when there is no convenient way to re-activate.

Regards,

Daryl

I wonder if Paul didn’t change the clock on his laptop to match the time zone he was in. I posted elsewhere in this forum that a change to the timeclock prompts a "you must activate immediately" message.

Did you change the clock, Paul? If so, naughty, naughty!

Jake

Did you change the clock, Paul? If so, naughty, naughty!

What difference does that make on a previously acitvated system?

"What difference does that make on a previously acitvated system?"

It shouldn’t on an already activated system but who knows at this point? He may be the first person who has run into this.

What an easy thing to do, and yet what an undesirable result if that is what happened! I routinely change my watch and all clocks, PC inclusive, to whatever time zone I’ve travelled into.

Daryl

He may be the first person who has run into this.

First WE’VE heard of. Still after only a couple of weeks since release, it’s a bit unsettling.

Paul,

My opinion here: your lockup could have just-as-easily wiped out Photoshop alltogether (corrupted a DLL or the EXE, or something like that). But under normal operations, Photoshop works fine. There is aways *something* that can happen to your system that will cause one or more of your apps to not work in an unrecoverable way.

So the question is, what actually happened (during the lockup) that forced the reactivation issue? And how common is it? Will we be reactiving every lockup, or was it a once-in-a-blue-moon occurance?

If reactivaion is only required when it gets corrupted due to a particularly violent crash, or a faulty hard drive, or something else that doesn’t happen too often, then that sounds like it’s on-par with basically any other app on your laptop: if it gets corrupted it won’t work.

Whether or not activation is fragile or not remains to be seen.

~Hanford

This is the reason I do not buy activation-required products. Same with XP – I run Win 98 SE, and may end up with 2000 for those apps that require lots of memory, but that’s it – from there I go UNIX-only.

As for CS, I have already informed Adobe that PS-7 is the last Adobe product I will ever purchase. For the price they expect from me I also have an expectation of them for a bit of trust.

Like others who have written here, I do a lot of work on my computers (new boards, peripherals, etc) and quite frankly re-activation in the middle of a job in the middle of BF nowhere can be a combination of impossible and disasterous to my checkbook and reputation.

I made an investment based on Adobe’s reputation for support, forward-compatibility, non-hassle, and dynamite performance. They just screwed it as far as I am concerned. I am now actively looking for a replacement among Adobe’s competitors.

Hey guys, thanks for all the comments. A couple of items to clarify.

(1) The laptop has a "mature" copy of XP on it. It has been up and running for a year or so and was purchased with XP.

(2) I bought and installed and activated Adobe Creative Suite Premium on Friday on my desktop and laptop. It asked to be registered/activated and I did. I saw no reason to delay registration.

(3) Traveled with laptop from Orange County, CA to San Dieg0 on Saturday AM. No time zone change, no change to PC’s clock.

(4) While using PS to edit a zoo picture ( posted at < http://www.melor.com/gallery/photo.php?photo=1259&lang=e ng> in case anyone is interested! ) my laptop locked up. The screen froze and no button would work except for the power-off/on button. I held this button down until the computer went down, and then rebooted. When I restarted PS CS, it told me that I had to re-activate. Since I already had internet connection at the hotel, I did so in a blink.

(5) I called Adobe to express my concern that a third activation might not be O.K., ( Desktop and laptop twice now ) and that I was upset because while I had internet connectivity now, I might not the next time.

(6) The man I spoke to put me on hold and when he returned he said that is supervisor recommended reinstalling my OS. He never even asked me what my OS was.

(7) I am computer aware enough to know that the suggestion was without merit and promptly ignored the suggestion, but was irritated by an off the cuff remark like that. You don’t "reinstall" an OS with the ease of flushing a toilet.

Now, that is the entire story, and I would love an explanation from Adobe about (1) Why my expensive software suite bit the dust, (2) What the rational for leaving a customer potentially stranded with useless software is and (3) How an Adobe customer service person could recommend reinstalling the OS like that.

Just like Adobe wants to get paid for their software, I have a right to get what I paid for. Now I did pay for it, I want to use it and not worry that it will disappear at a time that won’t work with their re-activation demands.

Paul

PAul,

With all due respect, the fact that machine completely froze and that you couln’t ctrl+alt+delete out of it is not a good sign.

Photoshop cannot bring down the operating system. I’m not so sure that the advice to reinstall Windows was out of line. There’s something wrong here and I don’t think Photoshop is what it is. Photoshop will tax a system unlike most other apps so problems that normally wouldn’t occurr will pop-up when using Photoshop.

Other things that can cause this are bad hardware, bad drivers or in a rare case even a bad BIOS.

Bob

I would suggest that anyone that has activated the product and then is prevented from using PS CS and that inturn makes you loose money turn around and sue Adobe.

Theres got to be a legal recourse to this.

Any suggestions?

Or am I wrong in assuming its adobe’s responsability to provide a product that actually works?

I guess Its time for software companies to step up and sell software that actually works as advertised.

Great idea–NOT. Don’t forget that Adobe doesn’t garantee the software to work on every computer. Add to that the fact you’d have to present that computer as evidence and allow an engineer to check it out.

Like I said before, there’s no way an app can crash Win2K or WinXP. The problem lies elsewhere. So give it up already.

Bob

The laptop has a "mature" copy of XP on it. It has been up and running for a year or so and was purchased with XP.

If the box was bought with the OS loaded, it was probably ghosted onto the hard drive. Clean install are the least problematic.

The man I spoke to put me on hold and when he returned he said that is supervisor recommended reinstalling my OS. He never even asked me what my OS was.

Would be oneting to try, although I would lean more towards a hardware conflict. For the OS to lock up like that, esp with W2K or XP, a software application cannot cause that.

I am computer aware enough to know that the suggestion was without merit and promptly ignored the suggestion

Actually it did have merit, so ignore at your system’s peril…

As Bob said, I would be highly suspicious of the hardware and drivers (make sure you have the latest drivers for all of your hardware installed, this is one of the easier things to do).

Also, if you haven’t done this already, delete alltemp files 9disk cleanup), scan disk, defrag… which should be part of your regular maintenance anyway. It probably won’t fix the roblem at hand, but it can’t hurt.

Paul I have noticed that most "highly trained and well paid Support personel" will say. Just reinstall.

I have called this "highly trained and well paid Support personel" about a problem I was having with my wife’s laptop. The "highly trained and well paid Support person" told me to put the rescue disk that came with my laptop.

Well if you do that it formats the hardrive and reinstalls everything as it came from the factory.

If my wife would have called she would have lost all her Harvard papers,Class assignments,Cad drawing etc. So these "highly trained and well paid Support persons" are not to be considered "highly trained". The lady I was talking to actually told me that the company tells them that the answer for most questions on the laptop is to put that CD in.

Dont you just love those "highly trained and well paid Support personel"

I forgot that disclaimer Bob. your right bob.

Nagash, you are just about to reach troll status. You have absolutely NOTHING of substance to add here and your knowlege of computers is obviously zero. If you have something useful to say, say it, otherwise stop giving out stupidity that could lead people in the wrong direction.

The suggestion to reinstall Windows was not without merit. In fact it was a pretty good suggestion considering it was the install that came with the Dell. I’ve owned quite few Dell computers. The first thing I do with all of them is wipe the harddrive and reinstall Windows. Makes for much more stable operating system.

Bob

I appreciate the suggestions as to how to remedy the laptop lockup problem. I never blamed PS for the lockup, but I shouldn’t have to re-register the software when it does lockup. I don’t have to re-register XP or ANY other software on my machine when I lockup. The lockup has occurred only once since I installed PS on Friday so I don’t know if I will re-register every time I lock up, or if it was a fluke. Not knowing and needing to re-register when I don’t have access to the internet is what worries me.

Paul

Why am I being a troll?

Im stating that support should provide support.Not a canned response.

I called Adobe to express my concern that a third activation might

not be O.K.

Same hardware and configuration on the laptop, then 3, 4 or 50 activations should not be a problem. Plus, you have 30 days to activate, so even if it were to happen again and you did not have internet access, you have a month.

That said, I agree that there is a problem #1, with your computer that it is locking up..that is obvious, and #2, with Adobe that it is forcing a re-activation when all that happened was a crash… that is an issue that unfortuantely customer service probably would not be able to address because of the complexity.

And while nagash is a troll, I agree that most tech support personell are not that highly trained… I spent 2 hours on the phone with Comcast yesterday telling them how to fix my internet connection… all I wanted to do is change account info (I moved recently) and the first guy deleted my MAC address and serial # of my modem from their system, the seconf person tried to tell me it was the fault of my LynkSys router, the 3 person told me we didn’t have cable hook up at the current address, and tried to tell me we lived at the previous address still, and the fourth one finally figured out what the other 3 losers did to screw up my account so badly…

Hmm I guess im a troll now….

"Plus, you have 30 days to
activate, so even if it were to happen again and you did not have internet access, you have a month."

This is where I am puzzled. I wish I would have copied down the exact text of the message but it was to the effect that time’s up you cannot use this unless you re-register now. No 30 days, you are out of luck right now! The interesting thing is that had I not registered my software when I bought it, I would have been at the 3 day mark with 27 days left to register for the first time.

Again, I have no beef with Adobe for trying not to get screwed on their sofware – Had they asked me, I would have told them to price it better, but that’s another story – but I am upset with the notion that I had to re-register and may not be able to next time it happens. I was lucky to be in a hotel with internet access, but next time? We are planning on taking a cruise in the near future. I plan on taking my laptop. If PS CS dies, I still have PS7 loaded, but after what I paid for my software, I shouldn’t be locked out from it.

Paul

it was to the effect that time’s up you cannot use this unless you re-register now. No 30 days, you are out of luck right now!

That is odd. Are you running an antivirus in the background? Do you have other apps installed that had an activation scheme?

Right now nobody as far as I know really knows how Adobe’s activation works, but I am sure that it writes info to a hidden sector on your HD… and the implications of this schema have been discussed ad nauseum in the forums.

Also, about the time synch, if your Windows XP computer is a standalone computer and is connected to the Internet, it will synchronize time automatically with time.windows.com every seven days by default.

<nagash2>…

I would suggest that anyone that has activated the product and then is

prevented from using PS CS and that inturn makes you loose money turn around and sue Adobe.

Geesh, do you have to hijaak every thread on this forum? If you don’t like activation and don’t want to use the new version of CS, please step aside and move along. You are turning into a troll that is annoying the heck out of all of us.
—
Rob

The 30 day grace period DOES seem like it’s becoming an issue:

federico platon "PS CS Activation and Multi-boot Computers" 11/10/03 1:20am </cgi-bin/webx?14/13>

In the example above, the user changed hard drives, which WOULD require activation, but it said "now buddy".

And I don’t know about you guys, but if a CSR tells me to reinstall my OS, I know one thing – they don’t know what the problem is. Reinstalling an OS is not always (often?) a trivial matter.

Earthlink tried to tell me to reinstall my OS when there was an issue connecting to e-mail – turns out they had changed the smtp address.

If asked, I tell friends and clients "Any idiot can, and usually does pick up a telephone".

Whether Paul has an issue with his computer or not, and whether or not the cogent thing to do is to reinstall the OS or the app, the fact remains that reactivation was required (where’s the "benign to the user"?), and no 30 day grace.

This is a problem.

Whether Paul has an issue with his computer or not, and whether or not the cogent thing to do is to reinstall, the fact remains that reactivation was required (where’s the "benign to the user"?), and no 30 day grace.

This is a problem.

That is a worry, and I am considering more and more to stick with my vs 7.

Ya know, in a way, I feel bad; but you’re right Carl. I’ve said before, I’ll let the early adopters work out the issues and wait for the dot release (if then). Since I’d have to upgrade OS’s, I’m not spending a boatload of dough, just yet.

Tony:

I am with you, content to watch the dust settle or get worse. It took several months for the Symantec problem to appear and it still looks like they have a problem.

I travel a LOT with a lap top and I am not inclined to take along software disks so I can reinstall software versions when there are computer problems….

I wonder if the install of PS-CS in Paul’s lap top put or required new windows drivers that he may not have had?

Earl

I normally lurk, but a couple of things have prompted me to jump in. 1) If someone expresses an opinion you don’t share–discuss in a constructive manner or ignore it. If the mods deem someone is going over the line, they’ll deal with them. Little is gained on a message board when name-calling begins. 2). Software is licensed to the user, not the computer. If I find it necessary to switch out parts of my computer and a piece of software inhibits the ability to configure my system to suit my needs by refusing to run after an upgrade, I have a problem with that piece of software. 3) Reinstalling an OS is never convenient or easy. It should not be done on a whim.

I have been a loyal, registered user of PS since 4.0. I find it very frustrating to be expected to be part of the cure when I have not been part of the problem. PS7 has been a wonderful product, and it has never argued with me once.

This is where I am puzzled. I wish I would have copied down the exact text of the message but it was to the effect that time’s up you cannot use this unless you re-register now.

30 days grace is on systems that haven’t been activated . As I indicated ABOVE (and previously) once activated you loose the 30 day grace period. Read what I wrote above and understand the difference between first time install on a system and a reinstall requiring activation.

In this situation you are required to reactivate immediately.

Well, that makes it convenient.

2). Software is licensed to the user, not the computer.

With the new activation schema, this is incorrect, the software IS licensed to the computer(s).

3) Reinstalling an OS is never convenient or easy. It should not be done on a whim.

True, it should be done after other troubleshooting avenues have been exhausted.

Hi Ian,

I think it is understandable that an activated product would require immediate re-activation if reinstalled since, as you say, there is still a record (or two) on the system of a prior activation. After all, to not do that does mean a 30-day reinstallation cycle could be taken advantage of to have continual use the software for an extended time. But, Adobe should have provided some other option than forcing an immediate activation since users on travel could easily be in situation where their computer tools and software are needed yet phone or internet access isn’t readily available. Perhaps even a 7-day grace period on subsequent installs would work. If I were a user trying to cheat the system by using pirated software, I’d eventually tire of reinstalling Photoshop every 7 days. If I were travelling, and found I had to reinstall with a 7 day usage allowed, at least that would buy me some time and allow productive work to resume.

It will take some time, but I think the important thing is to nail down the conditions which might trigger loss of an important activation record. Actually, given all the variables about computers, that may be an impossible task. I’d think the least likely area of loss is the record stored in the hidden sector of the hard drive, while the registry certainly remains vulnerable to software failures. With that in mind, perhaps one tactic to avoiding the problem would be to perform a registry backup and keep that on one’s sytem so that it can be restored in situations like this. that is, the registry could be restored prior to a PS reinstall. Since the registry is so prone to changes however, the better solution is to back up only the activation record, if that can be identified. I don’t know if that is hidden behind some vague name or not.

Otherwise, the other time-consuming solution is to image one’s system following a PS installation and, assuming it will fit, burn that to a CD for system recovery. The PS activation issue would require a low-level disk format that further extends the time needed to recover the system, but at least it is possible. The big risk here is potential loss of important data files if a user doesn’t have provisions on hand to perform a suitable backup prior to the system recovery.

The only "easy" answer I see to this problem is the one that legitimate users actually can thank the hacker community for…a working activation crack. That is, until Adobe provides a friendlier solution to the problem.

Regards,

Daryl

I’ve been using Photoshop now since version 5 and I agree with most of the vets here. This activation process is ridiculous. The PC doesn’t own the software, I do or my company does. I understand the need for piracy protection, but guess what guys…What good is protection when it only hurts your true consumers, those of us who have stood behind you and have spent thousands on your products. You’re not hurting the pirates. They could care less. They’ll go back to using V7 or whatever they have while one of their buddies works on a way around your piracy protection. They don’t suffer, we do. What happens if something goes wrong with the software or other and we can’t reactivate. You want us to re-install our OS? format the hard-drive and start anew? That’s fine for some users. But not everyone here is tech saavy nor do they always have time to wait for a tech dept guru to come shed light on the subject. If that were me, I would loose 2-3 days of my time. A client doesn’t care about your software requirements. They want their job done. I am using CS and I love the new product features (what I have had the chance to use). But I already forsee a huge issue with this activation process. I cannot afford to wait for my techs or waste my own time rebuilding an OS because Photoshop crashes…and guess what, considering all the bug reports already, I’m willing to bet Photoshop is the problem not my PC. I myself have had Photoshop die out on my more than a dozen times…most all related to one another and I have posted those problems here for Thomas Knoll and the others to figure out. Right now, I’m sure you guys at Adobe are working hard on the problem but I can’t express enough how disappointed I am with this piracy issue and the Activation process. I would suggest taking InTuit’s lead and getting rid of it altogether. Trust your consumers.

<<>>>viol8ion – 10:13am Nov 10, 2003 Pacific (#44 of 46)

2). Software is licensed to the user, not the computer.

With the new activation schema, this is incorrect, the software IS licensed to the computer(s).
<<<ENDQUOTE>>>>

Now if I can get my deadbeat computer to pay the credit card bill I am in good shape! haha

I just hope that when I replace my laptop with a new one, that Adobe will let me un-license that unit and put it on my new laptop. My I love the new software and hope to be able to continue to use it.

What gets me is that Adobe must read these threads and they have not contacted me or posted to this thread. After buying their new Creative Suite Premium and having a reasonable concern it seems only reasonable that they would address me with something that makes more sense than reinstall your OS.

Paul

Paul

Sorry, Paul – I don’t read the forums on the weekend (I was installing crown molding in the living room this weekend).

So I do want to try and figure out what possibly happened on your system. It lost information out of the registry, or some glitch caused it to mess up the system clock. If XP had trouble booting, it might have restore the registry from a snapshot for you, which might explain the lost key. The point about not having a grace period here is well taken, and I’m going to go find out what can be put in place. Yours is a very rare situation, but it still needs to be accounted for. Note that since the activation was on a machine already activated, it didn’t count against your license limit.

For now, do some preventative maintenance – make sure you’ve applied all XP critical patches, scan for viruses, check for spyware. Use Check Disk (Disk Properties -> Tools) to make sure the disk file structures are OK, and if you can spare the machine for a bit (hour or two), have it do a surface scan as well. I agree with the other user’s assesments that OEM installed OSes aren’t necessarily as stable as wipe-installs, but it’s not usually necessary to re-install an OS in order to re-stabilize a system.

The license is still per user. We weren’t able to get in a networked based deactivation, so you still have to make a phone call to deactivate one of your machines.

-Sctt

That’s one of the things I like about Photoshop…the people behind it.

Thanks Scott!

Paul wrote:

I never blamed PS for the lockup, but I shouldn’t have to re-register the software when it does lockup.

My point, (and I think Scott’s point too) was something more than a lockup occured. Some data got mangled somewhere. Whenever that happens it’s possible you’ll loose a file or an app. In this case it was Photoshop. I just wonder how fragile Activation is.

~Hanford

Scott, thanks so much for the reply. I do believe you are correct about the snapshot. I took one right now and next time my computer locks up, I bet it will be still activated. We will see. If perchance my lockup problems become more of a concern, I am glad to know I can call and deactivate one install and reinstall on a new laptop. I was worried I was going to have to carry this Sony Axe until you released PS9. Gee, what the heck are you going to call the successor to PS CS? Hopefully I will find out in a year or so. Thanks for your reply. You single handedly reinforced the satisfaction of my purchase. btw, I don’t begrudge the activation process, but don’t let me get stranded!

Now if you would only put back the same EXIF info as was in PS7 all will be right again in my little world.

Paul

or some glitch caused it to mess up the system clock.

Are you saying that we no longer have the freedom to change our system clock at will for fear of interfering with the activation implementation?

Yours is a very rare situation, but it still needs to be accounted for.

Huh? Maybe rare, at best, but not VERY rare. Scott, you might want to take some of the phone calls I get from my consulting clients.

Note that since the activation was on a machine already activated, it didn’t count against your license limit.

All due respect, but how would he know, and more importantly, uhm.. so what? Just because the machine count didn’t increment doesn’t make rendering the app useless any less disconcerting.

While Hanford makes a point about "there are times we lose information due to a system crash", you don’t lose an app. Sure, sometimes, when all else fails, we’ll try a reinstall and magically it will work, but losing the ability to launch application software is more rare than the user who has a crash while out of town.

Look, I know you’re working on this and trying to get it right. I’m not breaking your ba__s, I’m only emphasizing that especially in the Windows world (as I cannot speak for Mac), a lot of strange things happen to a lot of people on a daily basis – so, really, they’re ALL rare exceptions; but there are a lot of them.

What is a ‘license limit’?

Jeff

Paul,

Could you have been booted into XP safe mode when you tried to run Photoshop again? And by locked up, what do you mean – a BSOD? A black screen? Or just an unresponsive machine?

Trying to run Photoshop CS while booted in safe mode can cause the need for immediate activation – because XP is using a temporary registry at that point that is missing the activation key.

-Scott

All,

I haven’t read this entire thread but will throw out a couple of items:

1) changing the date/time after activating should not cause any problems.

2) changing the system date during the 30 day grace will force the grace period to end.

3) In the event of corruption to activation, the user will be prompted to reactivate. This sounds like what Paul experienced, and I assume was caused by the crash. If a user doesn’t have internet access, a phone call telling Cust support that you’re getting a reactivate message after x, y, or z happened should be all it takes to get an activation code. If the rep doesn’t resolve the activation issue, escalate the matter.

–Steph

Hi Stephanie,

Thanks for your input. Perhaps you missed it in the thread, but another factor which remains is that of the fact that activation currently requires either internet access or telephone access. But, what if you have neither, such as when on travel to a remote location? Again I suggest that if a change could be made in some dot release to allow at least a "no-contact required", short-term re-activation (3-7 days maybe?), and a repeatable one (supporting extended travel periods), then that might serve a satisfactory solution.

Thanks,

Daryl

Scott, my laptop simply froze. Screen intact, no key or mouse movement will have any effect. Only power off would clear lockup. Upon reboot, I entered PS and got the msg. I had no indication that it was using a temp registry, etc. If it did a roll back, it did one that might have been made after PS install, but before activation. I set a roll back point yesterday and will see if and when it locks up if it still works or I get the same msg. It makes sense that if the unit rolled back, it grabbed a registry that didn’t have the key entered. My suggestion would be to tell people to manually create a breakpoint or do it with the software when XP is detected as the OS and prevent a roll back to a time when the application is installed but not activated.

Will post to this thread if it crashes again and how it impacts PS CS.

Paul

Daryl – that’s what the 30 day grace period is for.

Yeah, but Chris, in this circumstance, he had already activated on this machine, so… no 30-day grace anymore. Had to be done NOW.

Scott, my laptop simply froze. Screen intact, no key or mouse movement will have any effect. Only power off would clear lockup. Upon reboot, I entered PS and got the msg. I had no indication that it was using a temp registry, etc. If it did a roll back, it did one that might have been made after PS install, but before activation. I set a roll back point yesterday and will see if and when it locks up if it still works or I get the same msg. It makes sense that if the unit rolled back, it grabbed a registry that didn’t have the key entered. My suggestion would be to tell people to manually create a breakpoint or do it with the software when XP is detected as the OS and prevent a roll back to a time when the application is installed but not activated.

Will post to this thread if it crashes again and how it impacts PS CS.

Paul

Paul,

I may well be wrong, but I’d bet that while XP monitors changes in your system for the System Restore tool, it may not monitor changes at the boot sector level. If it does, that would be great. However, if not, then once the activation record is written, it would remain in place even after a restoring to a prior state where activation of PS hadn’t been done yet.

Chris,

I realize the 30-day grace period is provided for PS CS activation but, as Tony pointed out, we’ve been discussing cases where activation has already been done. If someone is in a remote location with a computer when something corrupts the activation records, then they should be provided a short-term reactivation by merely reinstalling the app, and not require any outside (phone or internet) interaction.

Regards,

Daryl

How quaint, only a few days in and already the sky is falling down and pigs are flying.

Who’d have thought it? (apart from all the people who pointed out this sort of thing was going to happen and were shouted down by Adobe and it’s fan-boys)…

I was thinking the same thing, but according to Chris, the number of incidents is about the same as they usually expect with a version release.

So using that as a measure, I’m guessing that they’re not seeing it as a statistically relevant issue.

I have a question and it may have already been discussed and answered so pardons if I am rehashing old garbage…

When CS transmits during activation, what is transmitted? Also when I start PSCS it keeps trying to get through the firewall for internet access… If I decide not to let it have access to the internet for a period of 30 days will it cease to function? Or is there a downside to not letting it get through the firewall? It will not start until I make a decision? Kinda irritating though…

Thanks,

Al

So, Paul, it sounds like you had a very serious hardware issue, and should count yourself lucky that more was not lost. Watch that machine carefully and back it up a little more frequently.

Daryl, I’ve already started following up on the issue. But don’t confuse possible wih probable. A hardware failure that can cause the issue Paul had would be extremely rare – and it’s very unlikely that you’d be out of phone contact at the same time. Any location remote enough to have it’s own generation of power for the laptop will also likely have some sort of communications mechanism as well. I’m not discounting what you’re saying, just saying that you need to look at it realistically.

Al, it’s not activation you’re seeing ping the network on launch. Once activated, the machine can be completely isolated from the net with no problem. It does have to connect to the net for activation at least once though, unless you want to phone in.

-Scott

Hi Scott,

I’m sure you realize I’m just being the bit of a devil’s advocate here, as I agree the odds are low that events like this would come together at the same. Luckily I have found WinXP extremely stable, but I’ll elaborate on my earlier example: I attended an underwater photography competition on an island off the coast of Honduras and the resort I stayed at had no telephones available for immediate use. Arrangements had to be made to use one of the two phones in the office and would be accommodated but this typically had to be done during certain times of the day. Given that the dive schedule was pretty tight once you factored in time needed to review slides, and further, to possibly scan some of those for digital manipulation, it would be quite inconvenient if a PC crash caused a problem such as Paul encountered, made even more so by the need to access a phone. Oh, and while I assume the phone number to call is toll-free, if that isn’t the case, then activation by phone becomes an even greater hassle and expense.

I know an example like this is one of those instances that don’t need to be factored in on average, but the fact is that they do exist and it would be irritating to say the least to have to worry about activation at such times. I appreciate your efforts investigating more workable alternatives even if none are arrived at.

Frankly, trips such as that one I made nearly seemed more like a working vacation than a real one, so maybe such concerns as I’ve presented here won’t be an issue in the future…I’ll leave the PC at home and just enjoy the blue water. Either that or I’ll have a working solution at hand. 🙂

Regards,

Daryl

OOoOooh, Nagash!
You better be scared now, bobLevine the AllMighty has declared you almost a troll! Don’t post unless you have something of true value to add to any thread, okay? You just sit there and stare at your monitior until you get the message, do you understand?

Sheesh, bobLevine! I thought you got over yourself and your oversized self-importance ego months ago!

I suppose there’s always a portable USB hard drive that you can mirror on your vacations. In the event of catastrophe, copy the image over…

I don’t agree though that when a user of a laptop, for whatever reason decides to do a cold boot, that it points to a serious hardware failure. Something has gone awry on my ThinkPad, with all OEM components, and rather than wait it out, it was better for me to cold boot it.

Look who’s talking. Miss copy and paste the same insult to every newbie who pops in here.

Bob

Uhm… huh?

She’s a jerk. Her only solution to any problem is to google it.

Bob

Ah. You mean Ol’ Whozit. Didn’t get that until I read back through. I thought you were talking to me.

I thought you were talking to me.

Tony, you sure you’re not from Jersey? 🙂

I also had my machine request a reactivation for no apparent reason. Since one can activate via phone also, could we call and get a number so that we can reactivate the system if the same thing happened. In my case, other than perhaps changing what was plugged into one of my USB ports, I had NO hardware changes. Another question. I am an amateur photographer so informally I enter bogus names in the registration during installation. Is this a critical issue as well? I can change it, but I never gave it any thought untill now.

Tony, you sure you’re not from Jersey?

Heh. Actually, no – I’m not sure. <grin>

But if you force-reboot a laptop and it’s lost a chunk of registry, then you’ve had a hardware issue. Yes, I’ve force-booted my ThinkPad as well. I’ve *always* followed that up a chkdsk reboot (Drive, Properties, Tools Page, Check Disk, Repair checkbox).

-Scott

I don’t agree though that when a user of a laptop, for whatever reason

decides to do a cold boot, that it points to a serious hardware failure. Something has gone awry on my ThinkPad, with all OEM components, and rather than wait it out, it was better for me to cold boot it.

George, I’m really interested in your situation. I want to figure out what could possibly have happened to the machine that could have caused the need for re-activation. Did the system clock change? Did the system have trouble booting after removing the USB device? Did you rollback a driver or anything?

And, of course, if it happens again, I really, really want to know about it.

-Scott

wrote in message

I also had my machine request a reactivation for no apparent reason. Since

one can activate via phone also, could we call and get a number so that we can reactivate the system if the same thing happened. In my case, other than perhaps changing what was plugged into one of my USB ports, I had NO hardware changes. Another question. I am an amateur photographer so informally I enter bogus names in the registration during installation. Is this a critical issue as well? I can change it, but I never gave it any thought untill now.

newsreader bump

Our IT department said we will not be allowed to upgrade. I’ve owned Photoshop since version 2.5, but I’m not going to be allowed upgrade to the CS version because of the activation.

Our company has too much sensitive information and too many security requirements to our customers to have users machines running software that talks to the outside.

I am bummed… and I feel like it will not matter to adobe – because – like me – most of the Adobe users are not highly technical…. but they should know – that like me – many of us work in evironments that protect us from unwittingly doing something technically unsound.

Sorry, Debbie, but I for one am not buying that argument. Once it’s activated, it’s activated. If you are posting to this forum from work you’ve created a bigger security risk than activating your software. Those IT guys really have you going.

Also note that activation can be handled by phone avoiding PS’s trying to "phone home" on its own.

Bob

Activation is for INDIVIDUAL Retail Versions. Multi Seat versions don’t require ANY activation and are available for as few as 5 seats.

The few (and there are no more than a few) valid concerns have already been acknowldeged and are being looked into.

The moral here: Never mix IT staff and DTP software. It makes them all bug eyed.

Naw, the last time the IT staff was here, they set up 26 hours of download upgrades each day.

Scott Said:

Scott Byer – 01:11pm Nov 12, 2003 Pacific (#65 of 83)

So, Paul, it sounds like you had a very serious hardware issue, and should count yourself lucky that more was not lost. Watch that machine carefully and back it up a little more frequently.

Paul thought about it for a week and decided to say:

Scott, I wouldn’t describe my problem as very serious as I have never lost anything on the machine… other than my Adobe PS CS activation.

Now that you mention it, I do believe backing up my critical data is a good idea. Can you please tell me how to back up my CS activation? Since that’s the data that seems to be the easiest to loose, I think that is the a good idea.

Keep in mind that I have other software on my machine that has never needed "re-activation" after a lockup.

Paul

Paul,

I agree with you that if Photoshop CS renders your system more "fragile" then it is incumbent upon Adobe to deal, in some way with the issue. No other apps do that after a crash, even the OS, which contains activation.

That said, the best remedy, I would think would be a system snapshot using the system restore utility. However, I’m not sure that does anything with that "undocumented sector" of the hard drive where the hash is stored.

Paul,

I would strongly encourage you to back up all your data and do a clean install in of WinXP. You have some very serious issues with that system and Photoshop will test a system like no other application.

Even with that, it’s still possible that you have some bad hardware somewhere. You can blame Adobe all you want, but you have some serious maintainance to perform.

Bob

Paul,

but you have some serious maintainance to perform.

That is not correct advice, period. There is no data to suggest that, in the least. One cold boot, an unstable system does not make.

Bob said:
Robert Levine – 02:37pm Nov 15, 2003 Pacific (#86 of 87)

Paul,

I would strongly encourage you to back up all your data and do a clean install in of WinXP. You have some very serious issues with that system and Photoshop will test a system like no other application.

Even with that, it’s still possible that you have some bad hardware somewhere. You can blame Adobe all you want, but you have some serious maintainance to perform.

Bob

Paul says:

Bob, I am not blaming Adobe for my crash, but I shouldn’t have to re-activate my software if my computer does crash. I am also not one of those who think that Adobe shouldn’t have a copy protection scheme for their software. I just think the scheme is faulty if I have to re-authorize my legitimate software when my computer crashes.

I have built every computer I have owned since I gave up on Apple products 20 years ago. It’s a lot of boxes that I have put together and installed operating systems on. I thank you and the expert at Adobe to let me decide when I need to reinstall my OS. I do believe that it might be a hardware glitch that is causing my lockups and the laptop is scheduled for replacement next year, but again, Adobe’s activation scheme should be tolerant of a hard re-boot.

I think I may have solved my problem because I set a system restore point after activation of the software now, but my laptop doesn’t seem to want to lockup! So much for a serious problem… I am actually hoping for a lockup at this point to test the system. I am glad I didn’t uninstall PS7 on that machine!

Bob, would you take your own advice and wipeout a complete system if your PC locked up and then worked fine except one program of many needed to be re-activated? I can’t believe you would.

Paul

Tony,

You’re absolutely right. With all the twists and turns these activation threads have taken I got Paul’s one shot crash mixed up with the rant about daily XP crashes. My appologies to you and to Paul for the confusion.

Bob

Paul,

See my prior post. I got a bit confused there for a bit. And no, I wouldn’t blow out a system because of one crash.

Bob

Still keep in mind that XP doesn’t crash because an app crashes. It generally means hardware or bios (or low level driver). Notebooks MAY be more suceptable because of proprietary drivers required, but it’s still XP. An app (CS) will NOT bring the system down. Now we don’t know at what os level the activation technology runs at. Is it low enough to give it the access it needs to crash the system? I don’t know. Usually only drivers that interact directly with the hardware are at given that privelage in XP.

Bob,

Duly noted. Thanks for the recantation. I understand and am grateful for your acknowledgement.

Dave,

We’re using the term crash generically. I can mean anything. It MIGHT be hardware driven, but you can also have a program that stops responding, and when you kill it, it doesn’t kill – harware? I dunno. So then you shut down your system and it doesn’t go through shut down – at least not in my lifetime, so you go "screw it" and cold boot.

In my thinkpad’s case, I don’t think it’s a hardware problem as much as a "standby" issue. When I come back from standby, I shove a CD in and use Explorer to view the drive, and you get an hourglass. Then you have to exit by ending the Explorer process, and when that doesn’t work, you cold boot.

So I don’t think it’s a case of hardware bringing the system "down" so to speak, it’s just that the quickest way at recovery is through a reboot.

<shrug>.

but you can also have a program that stops responding, and when you kill it, it doesn’t kill – harware?

On xp or 2k, yes if it’s full lockup. no crtl-alt-delete, no start menu.

So then you shut down your system and it doesn’t go through shut down

sounds more like a driver if you can get to the start menu. but in the case of a full lockup, it’s most likely hardware.

don’t think it’s a hardware problem as much as a "standby" issue.

as i noted in the other thread don’t use standby. as i said in the levels thread:

Patient: Doc, it really stings when I put my index finger in my ear up to the knuckle.

Doctor: Don’t do that!

I’ve said before, I’ve had about a dozen machines over the years. This new one w/the intel board is the only one so far that can successfully handle a standby event w/o something flaking out. I think it’s a case of most manufacturers not following intel’s spec precisely, or cutting corners. one reason I spend a couple extra $ and went w/intel instead of something like gigabyte or asus.

it’s just that the quickest way at recovery is through a reboot.

gotcha. bud, do me a favor. turn off standby on that system before you hose something! 🙂

<nod>

My copy of Crative Suite expired after about 30 hours rather than 30 days. I don’t even know whether Photoshop will run this time, and I can’t get it to activate. Please see this message for details:

LenHewitt "Why oh why can’t I activate?????" 11/16/03 3:06am </cgi-bin/webx?13/0>

I can’t hit cancel, because Photoshop asks me if I’m sure I don’t want to activate. Yeah, I do want to activate, but they don’t give you a button saying "I tried to activate but couldn’t", and they don’t give you a button saying "ask for more time" which the documentation said you should be able to do, they shut Photoshop down. And Photoshop said you should have 30 days, not 30 hours.

I accept the fact that this is a complicated program, but this isn’t a $39 program, it’s not a $139 program, it’s a program that costs almost $1,000, and with a program of that price, and a program that is supposed to be professional, I expect it to act like a professional program.

FOLLOWUP – MY LAPTOP CRASHED AGAIN –

Last night, my laptop locked up in the same way it did a week ago and left me stranded and in need of PS CS reactivation. I believe because I set a system restore point after my reactivation that I didn’t have to reactivate now.

My suggestion to all XP users: Make sure you set a system restore point after you install and activate PS CS.

My suggestion to Adobe: If your activation routines detect XP, tell the user to set a restore point, or better yet, have the routines do it automatically.

Thanks to all for the kind replies, suggestions ( good and bad ) and words of support.

Paul

My suggestion to all XP users: Make sure you set a system restore point after you install and activate PS CS.

Done. Thanks for the reminder!

Paul,
Setting a system restore point, may not solve the problem. I do not believe that a system restore copies a direct image of your hard disk. That would require an image the size of your hard disk. Many companies in the olden and golden days would ship the program on a floppy with damaged sector. If the sector was not damaged the program would not run. Hence files copied from one disk to another wouldn’t work. Later companies started sprinkling invisible files. If the invisible files were damaged or moved, you couldn’t run the program. Adobe’s method is probably more sophisticated, but my bet is a plain old system restore point won’t do the trick.

….Mike

Mike, I am batting 1000 with the sytem restore point after activation. The sample size is very small ( 1 successful reboot / 1 crash ) but after the initial installation of PS CS but before restore point, I was batting zero ( 0 successful reboot / 1 Crash ). Time will tell. If there is a hash code derived from some secret routine and the resulting code is stored in the registry this would explain the facts that surround the two crashes and the failure of the first reboot and success of the second boot.

Paul

I just spent about 30 minutes reading this entire thread. Yesterday, I was at my favorite tech store (Fry’s in Southern California) and I was looking longingly at PSCS. This thread has convinced me, absolutely, NOT to buy it. Not now, not ever. The only software that I have on either of my machines that required activation is XP. I didn’t like that, and I hereby resolve NEVER TO BUY ANOTHER PIECE OF SOFTWARE THAT REQUIRES ACTIVATION. I hope I am joined by a whole lot of people. I also believe that in my home I should be able to install any software I buy on as many machines as I want. I own the software. If I am not using it for commercial purposes, it’s nobody’s business what I do with my property.
I recognize software produers’ rights to try to restrict my actions. My only recourse is to refuse to buy their products.
Bert

Bert,

Of course it goes without saying that I respect your right to vote with your feet on this issue but none of us ever own software in the true sense of the word. The software and intellectual property rights remain with the company that produced it. What you buy is a license to use in within the terms of the license agreement.

Regards,
Ken

Word is next version will have a "Must wear fuzzy bunny slippers while using this product" clause.

I also believe that in my home I should be able to install any software I buy on as many machines as I want. I own the software.

And so ladies and gentlemen, I give you another reason why Adobe has implemented activation.

Bob

I think Bob has a lot of Adobe stock, and believes that any control, no matter what, is okay if it helps stop casual copying.

I’ve never seen a person who isn’t employed by the company (are you Bob?) who has been so adamant that activation is a sage move.

<shaking head> I don’t get it. Smacks of bias if you ask me.

Well, I do not work for Adobe nor do I own any of their stock. In fact, I am a retired executive from a Fortune 500 company. I also founded my own company in 1985 which was sold in 2000 for over 6 million dollars.

When the subject of "activation" first appeared here, I was against it. Now, having seen all the pirates with large gonads posting here, I find myself favoring it. The story line being presented is that it is to prevent "casual copying", a true Don Quixote story if I ever heard one. I sincerely doubt that activation will have anything but a negative effect on Adobe’s bottom line but it is their business, sink or swim.

I am not happy with Adobe’s activation method. Plain and simple. Activation, YES, mess around in unknown ways (to me) with my computer, NO.

No, Tony, I don’t own stock nor do I work for Adobe. But the more people I see posting this nonsense that they own the software and can do as they please with it the more I see why Adobe opted to go this route.

Frankly, I’m a bit surprised by your reaction. These are the people that are the reason for activation. Instead of condoning their behavior I’d expect just the opposite from someone as adversely affected by activation as you might be.

The software is Adobe’s property. You purchase a license to use it. If you don’t like the terms, don’t buy. Is it okay to go to the store for a buy one get one free special but tuck an extra one into your pocket? Stop trying to find a difference between violating an EULA and stealing. There is none.

Bob

The software is Adobe’s property. You purchase a license to use it. If you don’t like the terms, don’t buy.

But adobe gives us this excellent forum to discuss these issues and at least seems to be listening to the concerns posted here. The license and company policy isn’t written in stone – as evidenced by the fact that they apparently listened to customer concerns and modified the stance on upgradability of standalone PS7 when using it to purchase an upgrade to the Suites – it can (IMO should) be rewritten to take some of these concerns into account. That in concert with the addition of some software controls (deactivation, to be specific, which there has also been favorable reply to) can go a long way towards making everyone a happy camper.

EDIT: It really is cool to see a company of this size turn on a dime on some issues (ps7 upgradability) to keep customers happy. I have hope that they’ll find some compromise to keep everyone satisfied as far as activation/deactivation is concerned.

Bob,

I see posting this nonsense that they own the software and can do as they please with it the more I see why Adobe opted to go this route.

You’re right. I was toying with you as one might over beers. We agree on the principles, but not necessarily on the route. And that’s okay. I have to apologize because I DO respect you and really, I was just trying to get a rise out of you, and I shouldn’t have done that in this thread where emotions run high. Sorry man.

Both you and Jerry are right – people have an awful lot of ballz posting their pirating problems here. On the other hand, I would take this opportunity to echo Scott Byers remarks, in that this forum is ALSO a chance to educate people on the use of the license.

Look, ignorance is no excuse. That said, prior to activation, how many times did you really read the license and go over it with a fine toothed comb? I’d bet none. So to that end, activation does serve a good purpose: educate folks.

What I see more of, and in particular your reply to Bert, was an issue of ignorance, not willful disregard. I don’t think Bert has (or had) a full appreciation of the license. And we, the regulars here have an opportunity to help educate those that would otherwise be honest.

The more I have thought about activation, the more I am convinced that this one central principle rings true: it’s about implementation.

Currently, the mechanism of implementation is lacking and if Adobe doesn’t change it, I agree with Jerry, that their bottom line will suffer. But if they do this right – if they don’t try to be the gestapo, they can reduce casual copying through education and activation, and in the end create (or maintain) that loyal user base that follows you where ever you go.

So, again man, sorry for the remark – I wes jes funnin’ ya.

If I am not using it for commercial purposes

This statement always bugs me, with respect to any tool, software or otherwise. Some folks I know even use this statement to justify using pirate copies of software. What’s the definition of "commercial purposes"? If a friend gives you a bottle of wine for touching up a photo, is that a commercial transaction or not? If not, at what point would you consider such a transaction becomes commercial? Perhaps later, your friend gives you a whole case of wine, because you touched up his vacation snaps for him.

This isn’t directed at Bert in particular, it’s just I hear this phrase too often, and it irks me 🙂

"activation does serve a good purpose: educate folks."

Most of the form users are too young to remember something. Posted on a sign over the entrance was the slogan "Work will make you free".

Rationalization is wonderful. By the way, that slogan appeared above the gates of Nazi Germany’s concentration camps.

I really don’t feel the need to "educated". Something like "tax evasion" keeps more money in the economy.

No Jerry, you missed my point I fear. And to associate what I am saying in any way, shape, or form, with Nazi Germany is, well, let’s just say "misguided" and keep it civil.

First of all, I’ve been a regular contributor here for over 2 years, darn near every day. I don’t recognize your name, and perhaps I’m mistaken, but I’d guess you don’t frequent here too much. So if I’m right, then you haven’t had an opportunity to genuinely digest my position on Activation.

There’s a thread that will soon scroll off the board called simply, "Activation". If it hasn’t scrolled off yet and you read some of my posts, you will hopefully see that I am about as vocal as anyone in this forum against activation. Better yet, do a search on my handle, visit the Lounge and check out the Macromedia Activation thread.

There is no doubt to anyone who has been here since the first announcement of Photoshop CS and Activation, that I am NOT pro-activation.

The issue, at its root, is the fact that I have no problem with a company wishing to protect their IP – and I know you don’t either. But implementation is key. It makes sense to me, that anyone would go ahead and agree to a EULA that is basically unenforceable. I did, you did, we all did when we purchased licenses for our copies of Photoshop pre-CS.

In today’s environment, while "piracy" is on the decline according to the BSA, casual copying exists. Who knows the numbers – you get 4 accountants in a room and you get 10 answers. But the fact is, we all know it exists. Adobe feels it exists to the tune of "whatever investment we can reasonably make, will come back to us in terms of both, tangible and intangible benefits." In other words – they are spending dough on it, and it’s not a trivial sum. Whether they’re right or wrong, they believe it’s worth the investment.

Now – Photoshop is a flagship product for Adobe. In today’s market, with IT budgets shrinking, the economy uncertain, no one can blame Adobe for wanting to get their rightful dollar for this award winning, industry leading, product. You have to admit, if you want it done well, do it in Photoshop.

In our long-winded debates about Activation, Scott Byer made a couple of remarks. Now if you don’t know who Scott is, look at the splash screen when Photoshop loads. But my take-home message from Scott’s comments is two-fold:

1. As an architect of this product, and as a person with a personal as well as financial stake in this product and this company, he is dead set against the notion, if at all possible, of putting "naked bits" out anymore. Bandwidth is too cheap and it doesn’t make sense to just sit there and watch your product get stolen, and not do anything about it.

If it were me? I’d feel that way. So I buy that argument. As long as it is implemented well.

2. The music industry missed their chance to take steps to educate young people on Copyright, and ownership of music. Today, kids are downloading phenomenal amounts of music (again, because bandwidth is cheap) and have the posture that "Music should be free". Now the RIAA are in a situation that is so rampant, that they sue 12 year old girls so as to set an example (I can cite the article if you like). And still the downloading of music comes with the tacit approval of the populous at large.

In principle? I agree – it’s wrong to steal the music. I buy Scott’s argument that the RIAA should have done something, more palatable, WAY sooner. And thus, I agree that had steps been taken to create "theft awareness", just as they do with "say no to drugs", there is a chance that the RIAA could have effectively educated folks that stealing music is wrong.

So I can’t fault Adobe for wanting to do something to help educate the market as well. As long as it is implemented well.

My point remains that 1 in 1,000, if that, read a EULA. Since Activation has been announced, the number of people reading, dissecting, arguing over, and lamenting the EULA is at an all time high.

So ask yourself – does Activation help educate? I contend it does. When a person says "hey, you got Photoshop, gimme a copy and I’ll give you a copy of something, ‘eh?", the reply is going to be "man, I can’t. I can only install it on two machines as long as it’s not used concurrently, and activation keeps track of my installs – so I can’t; sorry man."

Jerry, all these things are good, and "kosher". I can find NOTHING wrong with this posture or scenario. As long as it is implemented well.

What is really at issue here, is not Activation per se, but how activation affects you.

If activation forces compliance with a document, aka EULA, then the mechanism of enforcement and the document must be in synch. Today, as it stands, activation is slightly out of synch with their EULA.

This is what I take issue with. I agree with people who are upset with the notion that they must seek approval to: use the product any way they wish, install it on as many machines as they wish, as many times as they wish, as long as that use is in compliance with the EULA.

If Adobe wishes to protect their IP, fine. But do so in a manner that does not license my machine to use it, rather, it licenses me. If one is not able to move the product around to whatever machine they wish, it’s a machine license (provided that said moving is in compliance with the terms of the EULA).

So the question, really is: If they were able to implement activation that satisfied the above, both in terms of protecting Adobe’s interests, and not interfering with legal, rightful use of the product, do you care?

If yes, then the discussion is over. Activation is here, and we can argue this along with politics, sex, and religion until the cows come home – it’s a philosophical issue.

If no, the there is no point to being upset. That is, if it doesn’t affect you, and you don’t have a problem with them protecting themselves, what’s the beef?

So… can they implement it well – that’s the million-dollar question.

Here’s what we know: they’re trying, they are receptive, they are not being hard a$$es about it. They DO want it to work. I’m doubtful that they will be able to capture the "fuzzy edges", but I don’t think it will be from lack of trying.

So when people bitch and complain about activation as a principle, I say "yeah, sux, but what are you going to do?" But when they complain that they are not able to use their version of Photoshop in a lawful manner, then, I’m passionate about keeping Adobe’s feet to the fire, to the extent that *I* can, to ensure that they can deliver what their license says – or modify the license.

So in summary, it’s not fair to go ahead and say things like educate was the mission of Nazi’s – that’s such an unfair observation. Look at the problem, see it for what it is, and if you have a better idea, propose it. I did.

Frankly, I’m a bit surprised by your reaction. These are the people that are the reason for activation. Instead of condoning their behavior I’d expect just the opposite from someone as adversely affected by activation as you might be.

Please read <http://www.adobe.co.uk/aboutadobe/antipiracy/piracy.html> if you want to see why we need activation. Casual copying of software to give to a third party is theft and so is a companies not having enough user licences. A non commercial hobbiest installing on more than two PC’s presents no loss of revenue as he is still the only user and can only us one PC at a time. If Adobe can allow de activation of one machine and reactivation of another at will this will solve the problem and folks can install on three machines but only have two activated and thus usable.

I make this point again because I believe it is wrong to say this is why Adobe introduced activation as it is the people who pass on copies that are the real culprits and cause revenue loss.

YrbkMgr
I have been reading all the threads on activation. I have PS7 and want CS but will not buy it until Adobe fixes the activation process. I think your last post sums up all my feelings and will reflect how I act. If I get to activate my license I will do it. If my machine has to activate its license it will not do it!
Julio

Tony,

No problem. And I agree totally about the point on education. In fact, somewhere in these threads, I made the exact same point. You’ll have to take my word for it since I have no intention of searching for a needle in a haystack. 🙂

Bob

I just graduated last year with a programming degree, and am having a hard time finding an entry level job in todays market. With that said, I have thousands of dollars worth of student loans that I have to pay off. I am trying to get into the web and graphic design aspects of technology as well. In July I ordered Photoshop (as part of the Web Design Suite), for the first time. It cost me $1000. Then a week or so ago I ordered the CS Suite, another $800. I have also bought some of the online training. . . . but that’s another story. Having spent all this money I was extremely ticked off when I came into my office (which is Not a graphic or design company), and saw that we had photoshop 7.01 installed. Knowing how cheap my boss was, I asked how we got it, to which the tech guy told me that he burnt a copy from a friend. When he saw me receive my CS Suite he immediatly asked me if he could burn a copy.

Now I would have said no anyways – because just because I had spent $2000 in a 3 month period and I wasn’t about to give it away to anyone, but I must say it was much easier to say "Sorry I wish I could, but with this activation thing I can only install it on two machines, and I don’t want to risk rendering my software useless after spending a fortune on it".

I am ALMOST completely in favor of activation. The only thing I don’t like about it right now, that I hope Adobe will fix, is the deactivation bit. Another poster brought up deactivation, and I thought it was brilliant and made perfect sense to me. If Adobe adopted deactivation then I would be completely for activation.

As it is, I have my CS, activation took all of 10 seconds. I started coming into this forum right after I received my CS and I think this is a great forum that is really helpful and full of great people.

Just putting in my 2 cents.

Cheers,
Rose

Excellent commentary Rose. And I’ll echo your remarks about deactivation <grin>.

I guy I work with just purchased a complete PC with Win XP pro. The PC arrived this weekend, the monitor is still enroute. He could not wait to play with the box so he hooked up a spare monitor he had. When he booted the machine, the display was blank. He figured maybe the monitor was bad from being stored for a couple years, so he hooked up another.. same thing. He finally gets the monitor from his current PC and gets it working. He finally figures out that XP won’t boot with a new monitor because he was not hooked uyp to the net, and it had detected a change of hardware and was trying to authenticate. Big PITA, if you ask me.

I find that theory a bit hard to digest. Who did he buy from? Every new machine I’ve seen comes pre-activated and I’ve also done quite a bit of hardware changes without so much as a hiccup. A simple monitor change will NOT force a reactivation.

Bob

A simple monitor change
will NOT force a reactivation.

I am just relaying what he told me….. he did reseat the video crad at one point, he said.

And yes, it was pre-activated, supposedly.

he did reseat the video crad at one point, he said.

A much more viable theory. 🙂

Bob

A much more viable theory. 🙂

Why would reseating an original card be more viable? That should be completely transparent to the end user, since no hardware was exchanged…

You said:

He finally figures out that XP won’t boot with a new monitor because he was not hooked uyp to the net, and it had detected a change of hardware and was trying to authenticate.

Nowhere does this indicate that it actually tried to. Only that he theorized that it tried to. I say he had no picture because the video card was unseated. There was no need to reactivate.

Bob

Nowhere does this indicate that it actually tried to. Only that he theorized that it tried to. I say he had no picture because the video card was unseated. There was no need to reactivate.

He said he got some sort of authentication error or message. He finally unplugged aeverything and decided to wait for the monitor to arrive.

I started coming into this forum right after I received my CS and I think this is a great forum that is really helpful and full of great people.

Welcome to the group Rose. I hope you stick around after all this hoopla dies down. Then you’ll see what a great place this really is for learning photoshop! It’s nice to have another tech-head here!

dave (fellow programmer. <g>)

Excellent suggestion on the restore point. Noted.

So, the hardware hash gets written to three places – the boot sector, the registry, and a file (not invisible) on the install volume. Something happened on your machine to change one of those three places. A restore point affects the registry, a virus could alter the boot sector, a disk problem could affect any of them.

No, a hardware issue that requires a hard boot should *not* normally affect activation. I am curious as to what might have been happening on your machine to affect one of the markers.

As to de-activation, I’m fully in favor of it. I’ll definitely be making sure that this gets added.

-Scott

wrote in message

My suggestion to Adobe: If your activation routines detect XP, tell the

user to set a restore point, or better yet, have the routines do it automatically.

Excellent suggestion on the restore point. Noted

As in post #85…

YrbkMgr 11/15/03 2:23pm </cgi-bin/webx?14/84>

As to de-activation, I’m fully in favor of it. I’ll definitely be making sure that this gets added.

Woo Hooo! You da man… gimme five! alright! <cough> Sorry… stepped into a zone there for a minute.

Excellent Scott, and thank you. You realize you have just now added to my expense line…

Now to push some numbers around.

Peace,
Tony

Relax, Tony. He said it would get added. He didn’t say when.

<leaves room with devilish grin on face>

Bob

Scott as soon as that is implemented let me know.

Ill be the first one in line to get PScs If Tony doesnt get there first.

He didn’t say when.

You are just plain evil Bob. Just evil.

No, I couldn’t say when (even if I did know). And it probably wouldn’t be in a time-frame Tony would like. But I do believe it’s a good solution and should be part of the product.

-Scott

wrote in message

Relax, Tony. He said it would get added. He didn’t say when.

It’s all that (NJ) Devil worshipping I do. <g>

Bob

And it probably wouldn’t be in a time-frame Tony would like.

No, it’s cool with me. In order to migrate to XP and prepare and test, it’s going to take me through summer anyways. But now that I know it’s happening, I can plan for it, financially.

The last thing I want to do is upgrade OS and applications at the same time. So, I’ll just be whistling along and waiting.

It’s all that (NJ) Devil worshipping I do.

Well that’s obvious <grin>.

The last thing I want to do is upgrade OS and applications at the same time.

You may have to, Tony. Not everything that runs on Win98 is going to run on XP. I suppose you could dual boot, but that whole idea turns my stomach.

Bob

Not everything that runs on Win98 is going to run on XP.

What? I have programs (still running) all the way back from dos (scorched earth! <G>, Norton commander 1.1, and a couple odd command line utils, fototouch color from win 3.1, a morph program from win95, etc.) and I’ve not had a problem with any of them on xp.

Yeah, I was going to say, I can’t think of anything that I have that would be that obtuse. But, duly noted, Bob.

And thanks for the words on deactivation scott. Although I personally probably won’t take advantage of it, it makes me feel better (philosophically<g>).

Tony & Dave,

Thanks for the welcomes to the group. I plan on sticking around, although I will probably spend more time reading then posting until I feel my 2 cents are worth a few bucks.

It’s great that adobe engineers keep up with the forum.

Until later then,
Rose

Same here. If they make the deactivation as painless as Macromedia’s then they will be golden. For MM, you just pick a menu option, it connects to the servers at macromedia and registers the copy as deactivated so you can activate on another machine without a single telephone call. —
rm

Please remove "nospam" from email address to send email.

wrote in message

Excellent commentary Rose. And I’ll echo your remarks about deactivation

<grin>.

From What I read from the Macrovision site (http://www.macrovision.com/products/safecast/index.shtml) It shouldnt be hard.

"Flexible, configurable business rules. You determine who is authorized to use your software (including when and how many times it can be activated, how many PCs it can be used on, etc.), and retain the ability to fine-tune the rules even after a product has shipped.
"

"PC binding, with license portability. Your products can be securely “locked” to the PC on which they are activated, so that any copies made can’t be used on other PCs unless your business rules permit it. At the same time, authorized users can easily move their rights to use your products from one PC to another."

Wait!
Am I hearing that deactivation WILL be added to CS? Scott if you say it does will it?

If I then get the current version of CS and deactivation is added will I be able to use its new ability?

If this is true then I will be getting CS.

Julio

Julio,

You do realize that that could well be CS2, (like 18 months down the line) don’t you?

Well yes it could be that long. In which case I think that Adobe would upset even more of its customer base. What is interesting from a business point of view is that the more you upset a current customer in order to possibly get a future customer that really doesnt want to be your customer, the more that current customer becomes a negative advertising agent to discourage a new customer that would want to be your customer.

That logic is hatched in board meetings where many people become bored and come up with simple solutions for complex problems and then wonder why the world did not respond as they wished it would!

Julio

I think the current methods they have are acceptible for now. I, for one, don’t swap out my system frequently and do rebuilds every six months or so when I do major hardware upgrades. Most companies that use activation reset the activation entries every six months or so. As a result, there is never much of an issue for someone like me. I haven’t had to call Microsoft, Symantec, Macromedia or Adobe yet after I rebuilt my new machine. The only time I had to call Microsoft was after my wife surprised me with some new computer toys for my birthday and that was one month after I activated Office XP — they toys were enough to trip up their activation technology. Even then, it took 3 minutes on the phone and I was all set. —
rm

I had a similar thing happen to me a few days ago. I’m running W2K with SP4. I had just upgraded to CS from PS 6 & was 4 days into the 30 days. I had not activated yet because I was planning to add a second HDD & was going to wait until that drive was added before activating. Then for some reason when opening the File Browser the computer froze. After rebooting & re-opening PSCS I got the activate immediately message. It was not that big of a deal for me since I will only be using PSCS on one computer & that is my desk top, so I’ll always (Hopefully) have an Internet connect and if not, I have the phone.

I’m not a fan of activation by a long shot. I’m staying with W2K until I have not recourse but to upgrade to a M$ OS that uses activation. I bit the bullet on PSCS for the new features. The only other app that I use that requires activation is Outlook, & I’m only using that because I need to.

Photoshop cannot bring down the operating system.

Back up that statement!

She’s a jerk. Her only solution to any problem is to google it.

watch your tongue mister…

Back up that statement!

XP can’t be brought down by a application. A bad driver or bad hardware, yes, but an application won’t do it.

BTW, do you ever have anything useful to add or do you just stop by here whenever you’re looking for a fight?

Bob