I’ve been reading the countless problems people are having with this new Activation of Photoshop CS. I mean if you sneeze your going to have to re-activate your copy of Photoshop CS. There was even the suggestion by Adobe Tech to someone that they should just re-install the OS, "Oh, that’s such a simple process for me, gee, and I’ll just need three weeks to re-install all the programs I have on this 73 gig hard drive since your flaky program needs re-activation since my computer crashed!" My dear Adobe Techie’s, this ain’t going to get it!! There is no way I’m going to reinstall my OS and all the zillion programs I have on this computer because your Activation scheme is miscalculated, my Adobe Techie’s that would take me three weeks at the least, do you think I have three weeks to waste because of a miscalculated Activation scheme….before I would do that I would be talking to my lawyer’s and we’d see who would be paying for this outrageous suggestion….lets please get real, …. Adobe you need to please address these peoples concerns before you look really bad, if you don’t already. I’m waiting in the sidelines here hoping for some good news, but all I hear is bad news and many problems with the Activation thing. I really thought I would hear that it wasn’t any problem and it wasn’t a big deal, but that’s not what I’m hearing, so I’m not going to upgrade until you my dear Adobe speaks up loud and clear and address the concern’s and problems I’m hearing with some real solutions. A nice reply from Adobe would be a start and would encourage me to think about upgrading, along with all the other’s who are waiting in the wing’s out here.
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Hey, I understand your frustration but it’s not like Adobe’s grand scheme is to piss people of intentionally. I think just about everyone who’s tried implimenting activation has gone through some hurdles, and honestly, I think MS has been the only one so far to really nail it.
Obviously this is something Adobe is concerned about and I’m sure they are working very hard to resolve all of the activation issues. If you upgraded, hopefully you can cope with your current PSx until they can fix it. Otherwise, sorry there’s nothing anybody do to help 🙁
You’ll find few here more vocal than I against activation. In a nutshell, as Bob said, the only one who has made it work is Microsoft because they don’t give a damn how many times you activate, basically – they’re not policing it like it was the holy grail. They’re playing chess while everyone else is playing checkers.
But that’s not the point. The point is, that in this forum, we have some of Adobe’s top dogs replying to messages about activation issues.
Scott Byer and Chris Cox are on the splash screen when you launch Photoshop – they’re trying to help. Drew McManus and Stephanie Schaefer have also chimed in with clarifications and attempts to either calm the natives, or implement some level of change.
Adobe IS listening. I’m not sure they’re sure what to do. The numbers go like this: They’re having about as much trouble with this launch, including activation, as they have with other major upgrades. So… it’s hard for them to conclude that it’s statistically significant.
Now I take issue with that, but I’m not interested in making that point (yet again) here.
Moreover, the people who come to the forums are either die hards or people with problems. No one comes here to say "Hey, I just bought photoshop, great job, installed seamlessly" – well almost no one. There are some success stories in the Creative Suite Forum.
You make an excellent point, but EVERYONE is watching very closely to see how this goes.
I don’t know the numbers, but my bet is that they are past the point of no return on activation. They have to tweak it to death if there are issues because an exit strategy would be way too costly – unless, over time, it turns out that their implementation plan failed. And again, statistically speaking, it doesn’t seem to be.
So will there be casualites? Probably. Will they lose customers? Definately. Will it be enough for them to pull the activation plug? Doubt it.
After most of the "vocal few" (which is the way corporations minimize the relevance of opposition) have shared their frustration with this strategy, I think most agree to not upgrade just yet, sit back, and wait, and see.
As far as I can tell, that’s about the best anyone can do – Adobe’s trying.
In general, I’d say that Adobe’s "ace in the hole" with Photoshop is that there really isn’t any other program out there (to my knowledge) that is as capable at handling so many different imaging tasks. The nearest competitor?….Photoshop 7. For many, I think sticking with PS7 is the best answer, and particularly given the added requirements for either the WinXP or Win2K O/S. There will surely be many casual users who just aren’t ready to make the jump to the newer operating systems due to a general lack of knowlede on how to do so, fear that they’d have to buy a new PC, etc.
I don’t like activation and the fact that it places the burden upon the user to get any further "approval" for use of the software license they purchased. Although a relatively trivial process, it still smacks of "big brother is watching you" in a sense.
Be that as it is, I do understand the reasoning behind Adobe’s decision to implement activation and I’m willing to go along with it yet not without voicing a few opinions on it and maybe even a suggestion or two.
Well its good to know that Adobe is trying, but reading some of these post have been really scary. I truly love Adobe and have tons of their programs and I love Photoshop and have been a paying customer for years without once missing an upgrade, until now. I don’t understand why they went this route in the first place, there are way better activation schemes out there. I’ve already got reports of bootleg copies of Photoshop CS being sold overseas…so what is the point Adobe is trying to make? Punish the loyal customers? They should really review this and think it over a long time before ruining another program.
Trust me they haven’t gone too far to go back, for example if someone was really upset and decided to sue Adobe with a list of problems trying to use the software and that lawsuit turned into a class action lawsuit, this would not help Adobe or the Photoshop name it has came to be loved by and consumed by, no one would win and it would be an even bigger mess for everyone, everyone would lose big time. Yes Photoshop is a great big wonderful program, but the Titanic was a great big wonderful ship.
Its really no problem for me since I run only one copy of Photoshop anyway, but if my computer crashes and I have to re-activate, or I upgrade, or any of the numerous problems that I’ve read about causing you to have to re-activate. My customer’s would look at me like I was a crook or something if this went on and they were overlooking my shoulder, or think I was a nut for owning such software. I really thought that if Adobe were to implement such a plan it would be studied in greater detail and that we wouldn’t be asked to work out their problems for them…gee.
I think you’re overreacting. You claim "countless problems" but it seems the number of real problems here is quite few. People are blaming activation for unrelated things, too. There’s a been a ton of "worry" threads of hypothical situations where it could go wrong, along the line of yours, but very few real, true activation problems. And for a vast majority of the people who do have problems, they’ll simply connect to the internet and reauthorize again. Even the person who said Adobe told them to reinstall the application said that reactivating was "no problem" and they he didn’t actually need to reinstall.
If you were to go to a forum on any hard drive manufacturer’s website, I’m sure you’d see many posts about hard drives failing. Does this mean that hard drives are so unrealable that they cannot be trusted with data at all? Of course not — it represents only a fraction of the users out there.
I’ve been keeping up on the forums and frankly haven’t read "countless" people having problems with Activation. We’ve had people expressing concerns and asking questions and a couple reporting problems, all of which we’re resolved AFAIK.
Thank you Stephanie, for validating that Adobe does continue to listen and remains concerned over issues, no matter how infrequent those issues may be.
No I have not had to call adobe customer service yet. And it is still not the point, I feel I shouldn’t have to go through this all the time just because there is a slight change to my system, for a product that I have purchased. What happens if I’m not connected to the net nor near a phone.
From what I have been reading I will now have to call adobe since I have used up my 2 activations. That crack is starting to look real good where do you find it.
That crack is starting to look real good where do you find it.
<laughing> I wouldn’t know.
Tell ya what though, if you are required to activate again, I’m betting you won’t have to call. If you DO have to call, trust me, I’m supremely interested, but I don’t think you will. I think it’s an "okay connect and activate" event.
Charles, so far there’s only been two problems requiring unexpected re-activation. For one, the hardware had an issue and wiped out a good chunk of information somehow. There are a number of ways that could have happened, all extremely rare. The other is still a mystery, but I’m looking into it.
We did test and try activation. Gosh, we tested it on a whole country :-).
Also recognize that re-activation is no big deal – it’s the same 3 second process that was used in the first place. Reactivating on the same machine doesn’t take a license slot – it just restores the lost information. People have brought up some interesting theoretical scenarios and we’re looking into fine-tuning our activation scheme to take those into account.
No no no! Becky, if it’s on the same machine, re-activation doesn’t take up an additional license spot.
Anyway, I DO want to find out what’s going on on your machine that requires re-activation. Do you shut it down normally (not just turn it off)? What kind of system and OS is it? Does it boot up normally, or with wierd display settings every time? Did you install Photoshop CS from your user account or as an admin, and do you run as a user or as an admin? Do you have any system "repair" or undelete utilities running (e.g., Norton)?
-Scott
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From what I have been reading I will now have to call adobe since I have
used up my 2 activations. That crack is starting to look real good where do you find it.
Scott, I’m running Windows Xp Sp1 AMD Athlon 2400 768 mb ram 40 gig harddrive.
While using the file browser my system hangs up sometimes. Have had to use reset button and if it is really messy have used system restore. this has occurred twice, once system restore is finished when I open photoshop it says activation is need because my system has changed blurb.
There is one main problem with the activation- it doesn’t work.
Not only are multiple users having troubles, but the theory itself is pointless. The idea of the activation is to attempt to assure noone is using a pirated copy of the program. Sounds good, but in reality it can’t work. The same people that are pirating the software are the same people that find the cracks and patches to get around the activation. These people have no problem using the underground to find a way around the activation. As soon as one technology is created, something better comes along. This is why record companies can not stop people from copying cds.
Adobe, Microsoft, Macromedia, and the other top dogs need to realize they are working themselves into a corner by spending the time creating, implementing and controling the activation process. They are not stopping the people they want to stop; instead they are slowing down potential and authentic customers.
No one was assured that a reactivation wouldn’t be necessary, we just think it won’t be too common an experience. In the case where one is necessary, you’ll have all the normal activation options (internet/automated phone/cust support).
Here’s what I hear so far… IF you require re-activation, it is no more painless than the first one you did. It is not a Customer Service Required call.
There are other conditions which trigger a Cust service call, but we haven’t seen those yet.
There are a lot of misconceptions about the term "activation". We should probably establish some language that differentiates between being required to activate, and being required to call a customer service rep for "approval".
Perhaps, activation v. approval call? <shrug>
What I hear in this forum though is simply confusion of terms. A re-activation due to system crash or anything like that should be a relative non-event.
When you are required to call Adobe for approval, that is not a non-event. To my knowledge the latter hasn’t reared it’s head yet.
Does Photoshop’s activation use the same (discredited) 3rd party activation software that Turbotax 2002 used? That software often failed to activate, wrote junk to the boot block, and started up processes at boot time.
While I don’t object to software using technical means to enforce the license agreement, the behavior of the software used by Turbotax was absolutely unacceptable.
If the new version of Photoshop does such things as that, I will no longer upgrade photoshop.
" Does Photoshop’s activation use the same (discredited) 3rd party activation software that Turbotax 2002 used?"
That fiasco has already become legendary in the annals of Software Blunder history. I’m sure Adobe has done what they can to avoid the sheer magnitude of the TurboTax 2002 problem.
The Photoshop license is already less restrictive, and we’ve tried to take as loose a take on it as reasonable. Also, unlike TurboTax, Photoshop’s activation has gone through very large scale testing already. And improvements will continue to be made to better accomodate customers.
As for a laptop crash that causes serious harddrive loss – restoring from a full backup should work (I haven’t tested it myself yet, I’ll try this weekend if I get a chance). Restoring just the registry should also work. Remember, it’s not just any laptop crash that could force re-activation, but a very serious data loss on the harddrive. If that’s the case, activating Photoshop may be the least of your problems. I’ll continue working on figuring out how one survives just such a scenario out of phone contact.
Scott Byer wrote (#33) that Adobe has "tried to take as loose a take [on activation] as reasonable."
With all due respect, one can’t be reasonable about something that’s unreasonable. I don’t care if activation/re-activation is simple/difficult/friendly/unfriendly/benign/malignant, or you-name it. The traffic here should be a hint to Adobe that something is very very wrong. The original "Activation" thread is approaching 1,000 messages, and there are a dozen or so spin-off threads. And this venue is populated (mostly) by *friends* of Adobe–imagine what the enemies are saying!
Presumably, Adobe knows what everyone else knows–that activation is going to have about zero effect on the *real* crooks. Why then, go down this path? I suppose for the sake of scaring off a few casual crooks, and/or discouraging people dumb enough to think it’s OK to copy the software for their friends. Presumably, Adobe also knows that a certain segment of its loyal customer base is going to be angry, and has made a business decision that, as far as the bottom line goes, we are "not statistically significant."
IMO, this is about education more than anything. As everyone as pointed out already, those the will steal the software won’t be stopped by anything. But there are plenty of customer who thought it was okay to install on three machines or to "lend" a copy to a cousin.
These are the folks this is aimed it.
As for me, while I’m not crazy about it, I didn’t have any problem installing and activating on my desktop and laptop.
The computer industry has changed incredibly over the last five years. To assume that your old-school install-it-and-go applications like Photoshop are not going to evolve with the times is silly.
It is so easy to bootleg a program these days, not just with cracks but with un-cracked versions of Photoshop 7 and below, that for Adobe to sit there and say "Gee, the same methods of piracy reduction we had 10 years ago is still adequate today" is absurd. Companies that sit in their offices and deny the world is changing tend to go out of business … look at how the Recording Industry is universally blamed for doing too-little-too-late with MP3 piracy. Let me say that again: Anyalists pretty much agree that the RIAA themselves are to be blamed for everyone pirating their music.
Most people deny it’s happening, but MP3 trading is breeding the "it *should* be okay to copy, regardless of what the law says" mentality. Piracy is only going to get worse.
Y’know, that’s pretty much how I feel about those who don’t understand that activation has become necessary. Activation is a perfectly reasonable reponse to the very widespread ignoring of the license. It’s simply become too easy and too acceptable to just download and use software, or to just install it on a dozen machines.
And it’s not a "few" casual crooks. Many small shops and many more whitebox assemblers ignored the license – accidentally or otherwise.
So, I’m sorry if a few people don’t understand, but I simply won’t put out naked bits anymore.
-Scott
With all due respect, one can’t be reasonable about something that’s
Scott, I may have more understanding of the problem than you give me credit for. I’m an author who has lost a fair amount of bucks from people copying parts of my books, to spare themselves some expense–and me, some income. I’m also an ex recording engineer, with a fair-to-middlin’ idea of the problems confronting that side of the piracy issue. In fact, I’ve watched the RIAA turn itself into a cordially-hated organization for reasons that don’t need to be reviewed here. And in recent years I’ve seen Adobe develop the same kind of seige mentality–the customer is the enemy–and I remember all too well when it joined the BSA, who sent out threatening letters to people, offering them "amnesty" just on the off-chance they might be guilty of something.
Now I don’t have any simple solutions, and I really wish there were one out there. But it occurs to me that Adobe and Microsoft and a few other companies have built up a fairly decent bottom line by treating their customers with a certain amount of respect, even if they lost a few buck in the process. But now all that’s changed. The anti-Microsoft backlash is not insignificant, although I don’t suppose they care much. I just wish Adobe didn’t feel compelled to follow their example.
I dunno. If Adobe can do it fairly, I don’t have a problem. When the user is saddled with justifying their use out of mistrust, I do. I think there are several things that Adobe can do to solve this. Based on the posts from the principles, it seems as though they are responding appropriately to the user mistrust issue – in terms of implementing changes that don’t require the user to justify their workflow.
Time will tell to be sure, and it obviously isn’t in this release. Whether it’s the dot release or the next version, it appears Adobe are trying to be sage in their implementation. Once sucessful at it, I won’t have a problem (as if anyone cares <shrug>).
The whole point, is, if you want it to be fair, be fair, that’s all.
Anyway, I DO want to find out what’s going on on your machine that requires re-activation. Do you shut it down normally (not just turn it off)…
Do we need to count heads how many times in a month their XP crashes and nothing they can do except press the "reset" or "off" button in their PCs? But then XP does not prompt for "re-activation". If the usual crashes of XP will mean a "re-activation" of PSCS, then it was totally not acceptable.
…Do you have any system "repair" or undelete utilities running (e.g., Norton)?
You mean to say we have to use Adobe "like" utilities? Unless the industry create an "Activation Standards", it will never serve its purpose. Different company/competitor, different implementation of activation. And take note, the code is written somewhere in our hard drives. We have already full of (in)compatibility issues in our PC, don’t add up.
I really don’t like to end up like this: a workstation for Adobe product only, a workstation for Macromedia only, a workstation for MS Office only, a gaming workstation, etc.
The whole point, is, if you want it to be fair, be fair, that’s all.
And on this note:
1/ No activation for corporates – (i got a friend who’s company is planning on buying a fair amount of upgrades… maybe i should just ask for a serial number? hell, i don’t need the CD… that i’ll buy…. and use my serial number for future upgrades….?)
2/ No activation for Macs – It’s the PC user that’s required to activate…. mmmm… maybe Adobe is trying to promote Mac sales? 🙂
Honest people will behave honestly. Dishonest people will behave dishonestly. There is no system of software activitation or registration that will change these behaviors. Humans earn trust by acting trustworthily. If you put into place a policy that shows you mistrust your customer, you are acting in an untrustworthy fashion. You will annoy and/or irritate and/or motivate your customers. I’m sorry when a vendor chooses to change from being customer-friendly to treating its customers as if they were criminals. There will be unintended consequences from such a policy, just as there were unintended consequences to the adoption of the 18th Amendment. —
2/ No activation for Macs – It’s the PC user that’s required to activate…. mmmm… maybe Adobe is trying to promote Mac sales? 🙂
You do realize that there has been a type of copy protection built into the Mac version for years don’t you? If you run PS on a network, PS will recognize the fact that there is another copy running with the same serial number.
Or, unless the OS and BIOS fully supports Activation, consumers will continue to suffer from the scheme.
Be careful what you wish for Eco, "MS Longhorn" coming to a PC near you in 2006.
A suggestion in the CS forum caught my eye. For those concerned about the crash immediate activation scenario (or even activation at all), what if Adobe included a cheap usb dongle or 2 in the box. If you can’t get to a phone or net, or if you don’t wish to activate on principal, use the donlge. I far prefer that than a scheme running multiple unexplained, 3rd party processees on my machine and writing to undocumented sectors on my hard drive.
You do realize that there has been a type of copy protection built into the Mac version for years don’t you? If you run PS on a network, PS will recognize the fact that there is another copy running with the same serial number.
Bob…
No, i was not aware of that but it doesn’t alter the fact that Mac users are not required to activate…. And there are, i’m sure, many PC users who don’t run PS on a network…. so, it still smacks of…… mmmmmmmm 🙂
You have a serious system problem. I’ve had XP running on three machines for up to a year without one system crash. XP is as solid as a rock.
Bob,
I wouldn’t disagree necessarily, but you might be surprised at the number of people who still have problems. You may be overestimating the cababilities of folks who use computers – many don’t know about utilities and maintenance; they just go merrily along. They get a crash of some sort and as long as they can reboot back into windows and type their e-mail, they don’t see it as a "serious problem".
And FWIW, my ThinkPad DVD drive shuts down every time the unit goes into standby mode; if I access the DVD drive from Explorer after having been in standby, it requires a cold boot; I’ll get around to fixing it, when I have time, but that happens all the time.
The point is, I know dozens of folks who crash daily and simply reboot, thinking they’ve "cleared" it.
The point is that they do have a serious problem. And that’s no Adobe’s fault. Nor for the most part is it Microsoft’s fault. Computers need to treated properly. That means no Kaaza, updated virus definitions and a decent firewall.
Well, for whatever it’s worth, I think we disagree on what "serious" means. If the OS doesn’t require reactivation, and other applications work after a crash, I cannot agree that some of the burden of the issue is not placed on Adobe. If running photoshop CS makes one’s system more "fragile", then I think it’s an issue Adobe needs to address one way or the other.
If XP is crashing frequently there’s a serious system problem. You’re so used to 98 that you can’t even imagine what a stable operating system is like. <g>
You’re so used to 98 that you can’t even imagine what a stable operating system is like.
Nice try Bob, but my ThinkPad is XP Pro (the one whose DVD drive forces cold boot after standby mode), and since my company has it’s roots as a computer consulting firm for small to medium business, we have a pretty good understanding of everyday issues as it relates to XP.
In addition, since I’m the resident "guru" for all family, friends, and neighbors, I have enough personal, first-hand experience with different users to know of which I speak.
Did that machine come with XP pre-loaded or did you do a clean install? I always re-install Windows on a new machine. IMO, it provides a more stable system than the image that the OEMs use.
It’s pre-loaded and due to the nature of the reason that I have the machine (like a contract to perform certain services for IBM), I do not have a disk with which to re-install.
That isn’t always sage advice anyway, unless you can be sure that you have access to, and understand, certain utilities for your laptop. Laptops are a bit different than most desktop machines because of the proprietary nature of architechure and componentry. That is to say, for example, my thinkpad comes with IBM Access connections which is software designed to connect easily to wireless access points, for the mobile user. There is also an embedded security subsystem chip for hardware encryption and storing of passwords with this hardware encryption.
Then there’s Rapid Restore PC, a system restore utility that is created on a service partition to minimize downtime in the event of troubles. You may be one of those that do not wish to have these utilites, but where IBM is concerned, as they sell many many thinkpads to business, these types of (free) utilities are why businesses are buying thinkpads as they reduce TCO for the ever-shrinking IT budgets.
So wiping it clean for a fresh install of the OS is more tenuous for most than it may appear to be on initial inspection.
I happen to have a couple of NEC "profile" type units, with IR keyboards, and utilities for accessing certain features of the (addmittedly poorly designed) computers. I believe they were OEM’ed from Packard Bell, way back when. The point is, that we got these units at auction, and in general they work fine, but reinstalling the OS isn’t an option since we lose the utiliies that came with the units (for wireless, and the keyboard) since Packard Bell no longer provides support for the units – if I recall correctly, they’re out of business.
But the point is, that with a desktop machine, I probably would be far less apprehensive to wipe everything clean and reinstall the OS, but with laptops, it’s a dangerous (and tedious) game.
In the end though, the point is, no matter how stable an OS is, there are crashes – period. They may not render you to a BSOD, but certainly "This application has stopped responding" messages are NOT uncommon. It is also often the case that when you receive a "stopped responding" message, that the applicaiton will fail to launch until you reboot.
So at the end of the day, yes, XP is a robust OS, but far from perfect. And on those occassions when a user must cold boot, for whatever reasons, no matter how infrequent, the OS, which is "activation compliant" still boots and doesn’t require re-activation, and no other apps fail to run as a result of it. So if PSCS is not running as a result of this, while other applications do not, it does not point to "serious hardware issues".
Sorry I can’t remember the complete history of this thread. Are you saying this is actually happening (having to reregister after every crash/reboot that occurs?) or is it a hypothetical situation you’re talking about?
That’s not what I’m saying. What I’m saying is that if the system is so unstable that it constantly needs re-booting there’s no way to tell why the activation got killed.
Granted if it’s once in a bluemoon crash and it happens then there’s a concern. And yes, even I am concerned about it. But until we find out why it happened there’s no sense blaming anyone.
It began in #49. All I was trying to say was that we generically use the term "crash", when in reality it may not be a technical crash, in that the OS is brought down. In another thread, a user, Paul, had a problem and did a cold boot. Upon rebooting, he needed to re-activate.
My point was, that not all "crashes" are true crashes, and Eco, above post #49, seems to be having to cold boot alot. I cold boot my thinkpad alot because the DVD drive locks up after going into standby. So, since I have to cold boot, like every day, because of standby + laziness to troubleshoot it, does not mean that there’s a serious hardware error – could be a driver update, I dunno.
But lots of people, go through the experience of a cold boot, several times a month – it doesn’t mean that the OS crashed, as in BSOD – style crashes, which are DEFINATELY hardware issues.
So in a sense, it’s really all an academic discussion – we know of two instances where an "inelegant shutdown" forced a reactivation event. As I said earlier in the thread, that reactivtaion requirement was NOT an Adobe Customer Service required activation – it just came up with a message that said "you need to reactivate it now, no 30-days". As long as you have a net connection or a telephone, you re-activate that machine without involving customer service.
we know of two instances where an "inelegant shutdown" forced a reactivation event
Well, we’re not really sure if the shutdown was what caused the reactivation, or if something else caused both the lockup and the reactivation.
My feeling is that the *likely* event is something worse caused both the shutdown and the reactivation issue. For example: If blocks on the hard drive failed, this could wipe out information that activation needed, AND caused a lockup the required reboot. It could end up looking like the cause was the shutdown and the effect was reactivation. But in reality my guess is something far worse was the cause, and the lockup AND reactivation was the effect.
Just as likely a theory as not, really. As you said, we don’t know, and I’m not sure Adobe knows, or, really, SHOULD know – it’s a developers tool of sorts, activation is. Just as in a release of photoshop – there are reported issues that are on the "fuzzy edges" of the knowledge base and without accurate reporting and subequent testing, all theories are, in the end, educated guesses.
Just as likely a theory as not, really. As you said, we don’t know,
We don’t know, but it’s pretty unlikely that a forced-shutdown itself is the cause, becuase I’ve had to force a shutdown a few times since getting PSCS and I’ve never had to reactivate. That experience alone seems to defuse the "forced-shutdown-as-cause-for-reactivation" theroy.
I don’t necessarily disagree. The relationship between forced shutdown to reactivation was a side point, since you had asked whether there was any data on it. I make a very quick reference to two instances where users complained that after forced shutdown, they needed to reactivate. I was neither validating nor invalidating the idea.
Rather, I was speaking more to the issue that if one does a forced shutdown (which is a better term here, than the term that was used, which was "crash"), it does not necessarily indicate a "serious hardware problem". Forced shutdowns occur all the time for various reasons and many people generically refer to it as a crash.
So on some level, I was simply saying that when a user says "I had a crash the other day, and had to reactivate" that it isn’t necessarily the most sage advice to say "Well, then you have a major hardware issue and before anything, you had better look into that". Basically the term "crash" wasn’t defined.
If a user complained that the OS was brought down, yes, no question, the best advice is to seek out hardware issues – it’s just that that particular event hadn’t been articulated.
Be careful what you wish for Eco, "MS Longhorn" coming to a PC near you in 2006.
There is no word about MS Longhorn supports for activation. All words are directed to its competitor, Java’s. Anyway, my feeling is that we can not escaped activation anymore. It was a brilliant idea to boost one’s bottom line. It was not made to stop piracy. It was made for us to buy more seats if we have more than one PC. Unless we choose to be called a software pirate.
For what its worth, consumers should start to lobby for an international body that will govern implementation of "activation scheme" and for the protection of consumer’s rights. Enforcement of EULA is obviously bias. Consumers are made to hope that software companies will honor their word posted in their website (not in EULA) that when necessary time comes their activation will never be a problem to the consumers.
and for the protection of consumer’s rights. Enforcement of EULA is obviously bias.
I can’t disagree with that one bit. In theory you can create a license that says you must wear bunny slippers. Unless you’re willing to file a class action lawsuit, they can do whatever they like in a license – it’s been done, and it’s been tested in the courts with verdicts falling on the side of the company.
People may criticize that as henny penny (the sky is falling) behavior, but <shrug> it’s in the courts – see for yourself.
There should be a consumer advocate group that oversees licenses, to ensure that "fair business practices" are upheld in the agreements and it shouldn’t require class action lawsuits to be recognized.
I’m not sure I want "big brother" though, regulating activation schemes. The issues are pretty technical, and once made public, kind of defeats the purpose, I would think.
In theory Iain, yes. But I think Scott is saying that they buy a single copy of photoshop and other software and image the data across many machines. So they aren’t "OEMing" it, they’re buying one copy (or getting one copy somehow), and bumping up the value of purchasing one of their machines. At least that’s how I read it.
I personally cannot imagine that a US Mfr would do that with a traceable serial no. I mean, their liability or risk would seem to me to be far greater than an individual who casually copies. Specifically, I would think once that violation was identified, I would think a nice letter from the attorney would solve the problem.
I know of many, many, whitebox mfr’s and if they sold something like that to businesses, their customers would sue the pants off them as well, so I can’t see how it’s happening.
But it’s more likely that I don’t understand the situation…<shrug>
You betcha. Which is great, since that stuff keeps track of the number of seats it’s being used on. Now, I don’t think that program is set up as well as it could be (in terms of being easy to get into), and folks are looking into that.
-Scott
wrote in message
Wont these same places qualify for the activation-free volume license
As long as the hard boot doesn’t lose any hard drive data, then yes, you should be able to hard boot all day and not have to re-activate. The trick is that write-behind caches are used, and data can be lost with a hard boot.
So far, I’ve seen one case where someone hard booted then used a system restore from before activation to make sure their system was stable – that tweaked activation for obvious reasons (registry). And Paul’s case, where I’m still not sure.
