Formatting a Scratch Disk to Maximize Space

RP
Posted By
Russell_Proulx
Nov 23, 2003
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1095
Replies
16
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Closed
Just noticed something that I’m sure some others have come across as well.

I had a 5 GIG partition on an Atlas 15k SCSI drive reserved for Photoshop to use as a ‘Scratch Disk’. It’s formatted as NTSF and I’m running WinXP-Pro.

Because of the way that the MFT info is placed on a NTSF formatted drive the more than 5000MB of space gets chopped almost into 2. I therefore lose 1/2 of the contiguous space I might have had otherwise. I use Raxco ‘PerfectDisk v5’ to defrag and it doesn’t offer a means to maximize contiguous space when it defrags.

Is there a simple solution to this? Would formatting this partition as FAT32 help?

Sorry for all the techno-babble 🙂

Russell

MacBook Pro 16” Mockups 🔥

– in 4 materials (clay versions included)

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– 48 MacBook Pro 16″ mockups

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CW
Colin_Walls
Nov 23, 2003
5Gb is not very large …
NTFS is better in almost every way than FAT32. Most importantly, it supports very large files – >32Gb. Maybe this isn’t relevant in your case. I wouldn’t "downgrade" my system in this way.
RP
Russell_Proulx
Nov 23, 2003
Colin,

NTFS is better in almost every way than FAT32. I wouldn’t "downgrade" my system in this way.

I’m just thinking that Fat32 does not use an MFT zone stuck in the middle of the drive. Since Photoshop’s Scratch file doesn’t get fragmented, many of the benefits of an NTSF format are not needed. It’s just one temp file that grows as big as it needs to in one contiguous space. But if you run out of contiguous space on that drive then PS will jump to the next disk or partition configured in the Sratch disk options. Perhaps the MFT zone moves elsewhere when the scratch disk needs more space?

Russell
DM
dave_milbut
Nov 23, 2003
That’s an interesting question that I’ve not seen asked/answered before. So your hypothosis is that you can never get more that 1/2 the full volume for use as a scratch disk if the disk is formatted NTFS. I’ve heard of the MFT zone in a general way and that it was oddly placed on the drive. Never really dug into it in any way. I’m not entirely sure that the ps scratch disk file cannot be fragmented, but it’s a very good question.

Russel, first, I agree w/colin that 5 gig is probably too small. 10 or 15 gig will be better (especially now with CS’s use of the scratch space). Second, if you’re correct,(and it sounds entirely plausable) you’re only getting 2.5 gig before you hit the NTFS Boot Secotor and PS goes to it’s secondary scrath location. In that case you might be better with FAT32 instead of NTFS. I’d wait a couple days to see if one of the engineers pops in to answer this.

Can someone at Adobe comment on this? It’s pretty interesting.

Cheers, dave
RP
Russell_Proulx
Nov 23, 2003
Gads! It’s bad enough that I talk to myself when I’m alone.. now I’m doing it in a public forum…

In answer to my own question: It appears that the MFT zone in the middle of a HTFS format disk or partition does not affect Photoshop’s ability to use all of the free space available on that disk/partition.

The "largest contiguous free space" value that disk optimizing programs such as Raxco’s ‘PerfectDisk’ report as part of their ‘file system info’ is not relevant.

I just duplicated a 500MB image into 5 layers and then added 2 text layers to create a huge Scratch file and Photoshop filled the 5GB partition to its capacity before moving to the next assigned Scratch disk/partition.

Question answered … thanks Russell … y’r welcome 🙂

Russell
DM
dave_milbut
Nov 23, 2003
So contiguous-ness is not necessary for the scratch file. Thanks dave, you’re welcome! 🙂
RP
Russell_Proulx
Nov 23, 2003
Dave,

Russell, first, I agree w/colin that 5 gig is probably too small. 10 or 15 gig will be better

Actually I have a total of 30GB of Scratch space available to PS. It’s only the ‘1st Scratch Disk’ that’s 5GB. Most of my work is less than 30MB so it’s rare that I go beyond this. The other 13GB part of this 18GB SCSI disk is used for files I’m working on at the time. Once they’re opened the system no longer accesses the drive so PS can then have full access.

I use a 40GB IDE drive for the OS and apps, a 120GB drive for client files that I want easy access to, and an 18GB Atlas 15k SCSI drive on a 29160 controller that’s dedicated to PS use. Since PS can span disks with its Scratch file I saw no need to create more than a 5GB partition for use as its ‘1st Scratch Disk’.

You see that I also answered my original question. Thanks for offering your help 🙂

Russell
RP
Russell_Proulx
Nov 23, 2003
Dave,

So contiguous-ness is not necessary for the scratch file.

It might still be necessary on any single drive. I hope someone who knows will clarify this (Chris Cox or Len Hewitt?). I don’t think PS can have more than one ‘Temp file’ on any one drive and I think it needs to be unfragmented.

What I suspect is happening is that the MTF stuff is being moved out of the way as PS’s Scratch File grows and needs the space.

Russell
DM
dave_milbut
Nov 23, 2003
It’s only the ‘1st Scratch Disk’ that’s 5GB.

gotcha.

It might still be necessary on any single drive.

I’m not sure, I seem to remember some discussions about fragmenting the scratch file, but I could use a refresher.

I hope someone who knows will clarify this

me too.

What I suspect is happening is that the MTF stuff is being moved out of the way

not sure about that, but it doesn’t matter if the scratch file can be broken up.
L
LenHewitt
Nov 23, 2003
Russel,

It does not need to be contiguous space. Photoshop will run perfectly well (if not quite as efficiently) even with a badly fragmented scratch.

The MTF will not represent any problem
RP
Russell_Proulx
Nov 23, 2003
Thanks Len 🙂

It does not need to be contiguous space.

But wasn’t this an issue ‘once upon a time’ in earlier versions of PS? Seems to me we were always running CHKDSK/f to get rid of hidden leftovers because PS couldn’t jump. Did that all end with Photoshop 4? Or was it never an issue…?

It’s good to know that it’s not a problem ‘now’.

Russell
RK
Rob_Keijzer
Nov 23, 2003
Russell,

How could you tell that PS used the full 5 Gig on the scratch? I once tried it on my system (Win2k, separate physical disk for scratch, FAT32), by having a file up that was FAR beyond RAM (128M, don’t laugh, I’m working on it), then terminated PS from TaskMan (so PS was unable to vacuum-clean the house), and the *.tmp file in question was only just over 1 MEG.
While the 2 minute HDD actuator-crunching sound during loading suggested that the better part of the file (43Meg in total) was delegated to scratch.

Rob (there’s a lot yet to learn)
RP
Russell_Proulx
Nov 23, 2003
Rob,

How could you tell that PS used the full 5 Gig on the scratch?

I just opened the disk/folder where Photoshop creates its Scratch File and selected "details" as the view option. I watched this as the Scratch size grew to a point when it max’d out that drive’s free space and went off to the next designated drive to keep growing.

For the test I duplicated a 35MB 16bit image into 5 layers and then upsampled this from an approx 7"x10" @300ppi to 30"x45" @300ppi. Needless to say that got the Scratch file ‘growin’ real good’! Since the partition was empty it grew to the whole 5.35GB available.

Russell
KS
Ken_Storch_(aka_photon)
Nov 24, 2003
Diskeeper shows the space usage of a drive, so I can see how the scratch is being distributed.

Also, it offers an MTF boot-time defrag, and directory consolidation, where it places the partition’s directories at the head of the partition.

Not sure if this will be of any help.

Ken Storch
PH
Photo_Help
Nov 24, 2003
Russell,

You may want to convert to Fat32 for your scratch disk anyway. Fat32 is usually faster for this type of use.

From the Microsoft web site…

Which Is Faster – FAT16, FAT32, or NTFS?
For small volumes, FAT16 or FAT32 usually provide faster access to files than NTFS because:

* The FAT structure is simpler.
* The FAT folder size is smaller for an equal number of files. * FAT has no controls regulating whether a user can access a file or a folder; therefore, the system does not have to check permissions for an individual file or whether a specific user has access to the file or folder. This advantage is minimal because Windows 2000 still has to determine if the file is read-only, or whether the file is on a FAT or NTFS volume.
L
LenHewitt
Nov 24, 2003
Hi Russell,

wasn’t this an issue ‘once upon a time’ <<

It was, but it’s a long time and many versions ago….however, it was still being broadcast even though it no longer applied – as so often happens on the ‘net.
RP
Russell_Proulx
Nov 25, 2003
Len,

It was, but it’s a long time and many versions ago….however, it was still being broadcast even though it no longer applied – as so often happens on the ‘net.

Yes, you’re right, there are still a lot of folks thinking that contiguous space is required. Thanks for setting me straight.

Just for fun I pulled out my old copy of PS v2.5.1 and reminisced about the good ol’ days when 4megs RAM was the minimum requirement and that was going for $100/meg 🙂

Russell

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