Managing actions

Re: So, is it improper for users to call it "8"?

You can call it anything you want so long as others understand what you are saying. No doubt Adobe employees have been told that THEY have to call it CS, as a marketing ploy, and someone has assumed that this policy applies to customers as well. Rest assured it does not. Adobe management cannot fire you for failing to follow company directives. No one will come to your house and take CS/8 off your machine for referring to it incorrectly.

(I will leave the actions questions to someone more knowledgable in that area.)

Hi Ronald:

In a nutshell PS has limited facilities for organizing actions. It is a "one level folder" architecture, that is, you cannot have an action set inside another action set. As you discovered you can move individual actions from one action set to another.

RE: “But this new item can’t be dragged into my new set. I have to expand this new listing, and then I see an item named "action1.atn" below that. Now I can drag this into my new folder "RBH Custom 1". When I do that, the original listing in the palette of "action1.atn" is now just an empty shell, with nothing in it.”

Sorry… You lost me on this one.

RE: “So, if I have 20 actions in my folder, do I have to do this 20 times to get them all to be in the "RBH Custom 1" set???”

No. They can be moved all at once. If you want to move the entire block of 20, click (highlight) the first. While holding down the CTRL key, click the last one, which selects the block. Then drag and drop all of them into the other action set.

BTW: If you want to move some, but not all actions from one action set to another, hold down Shift and click on the ones you want to move. When all are selected, drag and drop.

BTW-II: If you want to copy the actions instead of move them, hold down Alt, then drag and drop.

RE: “I guess I assumed, incorrectly it seems, that individual actions with the "atn" extension were like individual files, and I could set up a tree by just moving things around. But this is not the case.”

Correct.

RE: “Is there no way to take a folder with a dozen "atn" files in it, and just copy that whole list into an existing set.”

There is not.

RE: “I’m afraid that I’ve worked too long with macros in WP and the like. Each macro is a file on its own, and can be organized using the normal file managing protocols. It doesn’t seem that the Photohsop actions bear any resemblance to that.”

Partly correct. Actions are like individual macros. Each is an entity to in and of itself. Unlike filing macros, PS has a very limited architecture as noted above.

Hope this helps a little…
~DannyR~

Adobe management cannot fire you for failing to follow company directives. No one will come to your house and take CS/8 off your machine for referring to it incorrectly.

Reading that was like watching a "Monty Python’s Flying Circus"-movie.

Good!
Rob

Danny,

You may have misunderstood my questions re moving 20 actiona all at once – I’ll try to be clearer on things in general.

In a remote location on my computer, I have a folder with 20 actions that I’ve collected from various places. I want to install these all into Photoshop. And, I’d like to put them all into one set which I create.

I create a new set, and I highlight that set. When I call for Photoshop to "load" action(s), a file browser window comes up. I navigate to the remote folder that has the 20 actions in it. But, the usual Windows protocol where one can select all/multiple files does not function. I can only select one.

When I finally do get it loaded, it is now listed in the actions palette as a separate item (presumably a set), with that set now having the same name as the action itself which now exists in that set. It does not get loaded into the set I just created. And as a set, it can not be moved into any existing set. But, if I expand that new "set", one action shows in it. That can be dragged into any of the other sets that is present. After dragging it to a my personal new "set", that set that loading it in generated, now has no actions in it, just as a newly created set has nothing in it.

I see no way to get all the 20 actions from the remote folder into the action palette, except to do them one at a time.

I view Photoshop as the finest program ever written for the home computer user. I am a very advanced computer user, and also no slouch in Photoshop, and the things that Photoshop can do for me – are as close to magic as I’ve ever come. But in the area of "actions", which are essentially macros, Adobe has done very little to bring them to the level of the main program. I know they have a scripting capability. But, why can’t Adobe come up with a decent organizational arrangement for handling actions. It would seem to me that a simple arrangement such as is used in all the programs that I use macros in would be far superior. A set name could be a folder, and the individual actions would be "files" within that folder.

That way, the user could organize everything in any file manager, which is a simple task.

The present organizational system seems so arcane that I have to believe that many Photoshop users shy away from it, when they could be taking advantage of a fine capability.

Ron

But, the usual Windows protocol where one can select all/multiple files does not function. I can only select one.

you can double click an action file in windows explorer and it’ll load. you can also drag and drop from explorer to photoshop. maybe that’ll help some.

Dave,

No one has really addressed/commented on the primary PITA that I experience when loading actions.

I have a folder with a bunch of actions I’ve downloaded from Adobe and others. Should I not be able to drag/copy one of those actions into a highlighted set in the PS actions palette?????

Whenever I do try this, the action does not end up in the highlighted set, but has generated another set which has the same name as the action I just dragged, and that action is now the sole occupant in that new set. I now must open that set and drag the action into any other set that I want.

The set from which I just dragged out of is now an empty set, and I just delete it. Is this how one is supposed to add actions to an existing set? I must be doing something wrong, but I can’t see what, and no one wants to tell me what.

Ron

Hi Ron:

Thanks for the clarification. There’s some good news and bad news here.

Regarding your original issue, I believe it’s a terminology thing. To restate it differently, when you engage the Load Actions… dialog and select a file, when you click OK Photoshop converts the action set file (.atn) into an action set, placing it into the Actions Palete. By definition (or architectural limitation) an existing action set cannot contain another action set, hence the result of Load Actions is a new action set, whose name corresponds to the .atn file from which it was created.

RE: In a remote location on my computer, I have a folder with 20 actions that I’ve collected from various places.

Technically what you have is a folder of 20 action set files (.atn), each containing one or more actions in a format useless to Photoshop until loaded into the Actions Palette. I’m not trying to be a smarta$$; just noting an important distinction between actions, action sets (which contain actions) and action set files that reside outside of Photoshop.

RE: I want to install these all into Photoshop. And, I’d like to put them all into one set which I create.

You can do this in discrete steps. Load the .atn files individually (via Load Actions… command or en mass – see below) and drag/drop the actions from the corresponding action sets into the action set you created.

RE: I create a new set, and I highlight that set. When I call for Photoshop to "load" action(s), a file browser window comes up. I navigate to the remote folder that has the 20 actions in it. But, the usual Windows protocol where one can select all/multiple files does not function. I can only select one.

Unfortunately, correct. That’s how it works.

RE: When I finally do get it loaded, it is now listed in the actions palette as a separate item (presumably a set), with that set now having the same name as the action itself which now exists in that set.

Correct. That’s how it works.

RE: It does not get loaded into the set I just created.

There is no relationship between the action set you just created in the Actions Palette and the action set file you selected via the Load Actions dialog. Remember, an action set cannot contain another action set.

RE: And as a set, it can not be moved into any existing set.

Correct. That’s how it works.

RE: But, if I expand that new "set", one action shows in it. That can be dragged into any of the other sets that is present. After dragging it to a my personal new "set", that set that loading it in generated, now has no actions in it, just as a newly created set has nothing in it.

Correct. That’s how it works.

RE: I see no way to get all the 20 actions from the remote folder into the action palette, except to do them one at a time.

As Dave noted, a not well known trick is to size your Photoshop window so you can also see your folder of 20 .atn files as well. Select all 20 action set files and drag/drop them anywhere onto the Phothshop window. The Actions Palette does not have to be visible.

Also, if you ever download .atn files from the internet in .zip format, you can drag/drop .atn file(s) directly from the .zip window into Photoshop w/o actually unzipping them.

RE: I view Photoshop as the finest program ever written for the home computer user. I am a very advanced computer user, and also no slouch in Photoshop, and the things that Photoshop can do for me – are as close to magic as I’ve ever come. But in the area of "actions", which are essentially macros, Adobe has done very little to bring them to the level of the main program.

I believe Adobe would argue the introduction of PS Scripting with PS 7 addresses functional limitations of actions.

RE: …why can’t Adobe come up with a decent organizational arrangement for handling actions. It would seem to me that a simple arrangement such as is used in all the programs that I use macros in would be far superior. A set name could be a folder, and the individual actions would be "files" within that folder.

That’s how it works now. An action set is essentially a folder for organizing actions. The limitation is the inability to have action sets inside of action sets, e.g. “folders” inside of “folders.” While a little annoying, it’s not a showstopper.

RE: That way, the user could organize everything in any file manager, which is a simple task. The present organizational system seems so arcane that I have to believe that many Photoshop users shy away from it, when they could be taking advantage of a fine capability.

This feature may or may not be of interest/value to you.

As you know you can name and rename action sets and actions anyway you like. Likewise you can save and organize .atn files on your hard disk in a folder hierarchy that meets your needs.

Assuming Windows and PS7 (but it work for CS as well) you can create Window’s shortcuts or Mac aliases for these external folders and put them in:

C:\Program Files\Adobe\Photoshop 7.0\Presets\Photoshop Actions

When you open the Actions Palette Menu, all the action set files in the folders referenced by the shortcuts (or aliases) are listed in alphabetical order at the bottom of the menu. Click and load into Photoshop. When the actions in the set are no longer needed, the action set can be deleted. If the actions in the action set file are needed again, they can be easily loaded via the menu bypassing the Load Actions exercise.

How we doin’? Making progress, I hope.

Danny

Hi Danny,

Thanks very much for all the info you provided. I now can confirm that all the things that happen when I am working with actions are the way that Adobe has structured the situation.

I appreciate your taking the time to present the detailed message that you did.

I have not, as of now, investigated scripting in Photoshop. But it’s time to do so. I checked in Photoshop HELP, and the manual, but there was no listing of "scripting". But, further searching did find that there is a folder in the program tree, where scripting is presented. So, I’ll print out the 105 page manual for scripting, and consider adding that to my list of PS skills.

The term "scripting" is probably the best name to use for automated activities. Functionally, scripts, macros, and actions accomplish the same end. But it appears that scripts offer far more power to make decisions and accomplish tasks. It is to be determined if the work involved to do scripting in PS is warranted for my needs. But time will tell.

I’ve not yet read up on the topic. Actions offer the user the opportunity to record a series of events. Macros in WP, QP, etc., and offer the user the opportunity to record, and then edit the recorded material to suite the user’s needs. This ability saves lots of time. I’ve probably written a thousand pages of macros in the past, where the language is similar to Visual Basic. If scripting can function as well, and has a command structure that can be GUI, it should not be too hard to get involved with PS scripts.

So, another manual to print, and another task for my ongoing education for the best program out there.

Ron

Ron:

Glad to help and glad you’re over the hump on this one. Half the battle is understanding the terminology, architecture (and its limitations), then finding ways to work with it.

PS Scripting enables those with Visual Basic for Applications (VBA) and JavaScript skills to go to town. Where actions are a straight-through, completely sequential process, scripts have all the power of VBA or JS with the ability to do calculations, apply Boolean operators, make comparisons, selectively execute parts of code and access data objects not available to actions. "Scripts are actions on steroids" is a huge understatement.

If you haven’t yet, check out the Scripting forum here at Adobe.com. Lots of threads + lots of talented folks writing scripts / answering script questions.

There’s a separate download/plug-in for scripting plus user guide, etc. With your macro writing experience and understanding of the big picture, you’ll probably have little difficulty getting up to speed quickly with scripts.

Onward and upward…
Danny

Ron, as you explore scripting, keep in mind that you can chain the technologies. That is you can script actions. Create actions in photoshop, leave your decision making to the script and call actions from the scripts. Very powerful!