upgrading Win98SE to run CS ?

F
Posted By
fgphotog
Nov 6, 2003
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814
Replies
13
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Closed
I am running PS 7 on an older Pentium III with 768 MB Ram and Windows 98SE.

I am interested in upgrading to PS CS but since it needs Win 2000 or XP I have a problem. I cant afford a new machine, so how can I upgrade with the least hassle (as all my apps & their tweaks are humming along just nicely) ?

My hard drive is relatively small at 20GB so I dont really have room to simply add another OS & the CS program.
Will a copy of XP just overwrite the 98SE, or what’s the best way to go about this?

If XP will not simply replace Win98SE then a second hard drive ? I dont think my computer has a free bay to add another internal hard drive [since they are relatively cheap, that may be an option – just put the new OS and Photoshop on a separate drive – although I dont know how one would switch between the 2 (operating systems) ] ?

I have a PCI card added to my motherboard to provide USB2 & Firewire ports. Perhaps an external drive ?

Any solutions that dont cost too much or have too many pitfalls welcomed 🙂

I know this isn’t strictly speaking a Photoshop question but perhaps other users can help.

thanks,
Frank

Must-have mockup pack for every graphic designer 🔥🔥🔥

Easy-to-use drag-n-drop Photoshop scene creator with more than 2800 items.

L
lkrz
Nov 6, 2003
If XP will not simply replace Win98SE then a second hard drive ? I dont think my computer has a free bay to add another internal hard drive [since they are relatively cheap, that may be an option – just put the new OS and Photoshop on a separate drive – although I dont know how one would switch between the 2 (operating systems) ] ?

Get a bigger hard drive. Pull the hard drive you have now and put it in an external case so you can access the programs and stuff on it. Swapping drives is very, very easy.
This one will work through both USB and Firewire.
http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=ME-320U2F
The Geeks are a great company. I’ve been doing business with them for years. Get a full copy of XP Pro and install it on the new drive. Best price is here:
http://www.viosoftware.com/micwinxpprof.html
Another company I’ve gotten a lot of stuff from, including XP Pro. It is a legitimate full version with all the seals and numbers.
You will need to download drivers and such for your motherboard before doing this. You can find out what you’ve got on your computer by running the Belarc Advisor. Get a free copy here:
http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html
Run it and print it out.
There’s a step by step guide to installation here:
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/windowsxp_sg_clean.asp Give yourself plenty of time. It’s a hassle, but will make things easier in the long run.

http://www.madmousergraphics.com
web design, print design, photography
F
fgphotog
Nov 6, 2003
Laura
Thanks for all this info – a few questions please:

I’d never heard of being able to place a regular internal drive into an external case – great idea – the case itself seems to connect to a usb2/firewire port, which I have, as mentioned in the original post as a pci card add-on, not built into my motherboard – but that shouldn’t matter, right ?

How does the old drive which has a normal ide/ribbon cable to the internal ide connector, connect to this external case; and it also has a normal internal power cable – does the case get power and convert it to the correct voltage for the hard drive ?

You say to install a new and larger hd (internally) and install xp pro on it.
Firstly, why do you recommend Pro over Home ?
And, what happens to the old OS (98SE) which will still be on the older and now externally connected HD – no conflict?

The device drivers that I must get downloaded for the new install (motherboard, cd, cd-rw, video card, sound card, network card, scsi card) – will these likely be listed specifically for XP, or do I just take whatever the latest driver is?

thanks,
Frank

"LauraK" wrote in message
If XP will not simply replace Win98SE then a second hard drive ? I dont think my computer has a free bay to add another internal hard drive

[since
they are relatively cheap, that may be an option – just put the new OS
and
Photoshop on a separate drive – although I dont know how one would switch between the 2 (operating systems) ] ?

Get a bigger hard drive. Pull the hard drive you have now and put it in an external case so you can access the programs and stuff on it. Swapping
drives
is very, very easy.
This one will work through both USB and Firewire.
http://www.compgeeks.com/details.asp?invtid=ME-320U2F
The Geeks are a great company. I’ve been doing business with them for
years.
Get a full copy of XP Pro and install it on the new drive. Best price is here:
http://www.viosoftware.com/micwinxpprof.html
Another company I’ve gotten a lot of stuff from, including XP Pro. It is a legitimate full version with all the seals and numbers.
You will need to download drivers and such for your motherboard before
doing
this. You can find out what you’ve got on your computer by running the
Belarc
Advisor. Get a free copy here:
http://www.belarc.com/free_download.html
Run it and print it out.
There’s a step by step guide to installation here:
http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/windowsxp_sg_clean.asp Give yourself plenty of time. It’s a hassle, but will make things easier
in the
long run.

http://www.madmousergraphics.com
web design, print design, photography

EG
Eric Gill
Nov 6, 2003
"fgphotog" wrote in
news:coyqb.3022$:

Laura
Thanks for all this info – a few questions please:

I’d never heard of being able to place a regular internal drive into an external case – great idea – the case itself seems to connect to a usb2/firewire port, which I have, as mentioned in the original post as a pci card add-on, not built into my motherboard – but that shouldn’t matter, right ?

No, in fact, it’s even easier than attaching an internal IDE drive.

How does the old drive which has a normal ide/ribbon cable to the internal ide connector, connect to this external case;

Same way. The case has an IDE to USB, SCSI, and/or Firewire bridge.

and it also has
a normal internal power cable – does the case get power and convert it to the correct voltage for the hard drive ?

Right.

You say to install a new and larger hd (internally) and install xp pro on it.
Firstly, why do you recommend Pro over Home ?

You’re using Pro applications.

And, what happens to the old OS (98SE) which will still be on the older and now externally connected HD – no conflict?

Nope. You can either wipe it (dump the Windows folder) or set it up for dual boot .

The device drivers that I must get downloaded for the new install (motherboard, cd, cd-rw, video card, sound card, network card, scsi card) – will these likely be listed specifically for XP,

Almost certainly.

or do I just
take whatever the latest driver is?

No, you generally cannot mix and match.
F
fgphotog
Nov 6, 2003
I’d never heard of being able to place a regular internal drive into an external case – great idea – the case itself seems to connect to a usb2/firewire port, which I have, as mentioned in the original post as a pci card add-on, not built into my motherboard – but that shouldn’t matter, right ?

No, in fact, it’s even easier than attaching an internal IDE drive.

I guess it wont run like a USB2 or Firewire device (the speed) because the motherboard doesnt accomodate that – and there would likely be a bottleneck – the pci card I have installed to provide usb2 & firewire ports does only that – provide connectivity ? Right?
L
lkrz
Nov 6, 2003
And, what happens to the old OS (98SE) which will still be on the older and now externally connected HD – no conflict?

Nope. You can either wipe it (dump the Windows folder) or set it up for dual boot .

The system ignores Windows on the old drive because it doesn’t "see" it. The external drive runs on a sort of a mini-motherboard that you just plug the drive into. There’s a plug for the power supply and the pins for the drive. http://www.madmousergraphics.com/exdrive.html
It comes with a power cord you’ll need to plug in.
You’ll get a CD with the drive case that has the drivers for it. It won’t read it the same way it would a drive in the case running on the same ribbon. You may need to set the drive you take out of the old computer to "slave." There should be instructions on how to do this with the drive case. I recently did this with the drive from an old computer and the case "motherboard" automatically treated it as a slave. I usually only plug the external drives in when I’m getting something off them or storing or backing up. That way, if I get a virus, the contamination is contained.
The external drives I’ve used are all hot-swappable. Just plug it in when you need it and in a couple of seconds a window will pop up on the screen with the contents.

http://www.madmousergraphics.com
web design, print design, photography
EG
Eric Gill
Nov 6, 2003
"fgphotog" wrote in
news:h7zqb.3038$:

I’d never heard of being able to place a regular internal drive into an external case – great idea – the case itself seems to connect to a usb2/firewire port, which I have, as mentioned in the original post as a pci card add-on, not built into my motherboard – but that shouldn’t matter, right ?

No, in fact, it’s even easier than attaching an internal IDE drive.

I guess it wont run like a USB2 or Firewire device (the speed) because the motherboard doesnt accomodate that – and there would likely be a bottleneck – the pci card I have installed to provide usb2 & firewire ports does only that – provide connectivity ? Right?

I dunno if I’m reading you right here, but the biggest factor in how USB2/firewire devices perform is the quality of the chip controllers on the onboard controller or interface card and the bridge in the external case.

All such controllers run through the PCI bus on PCI motherboards, even if they’re on-board chips instead of add-on cards.

Also, it’s likely that you will get as much performance out of a Firewire external device as your PIII can handle anyway. Don’t worry about it.
F
fgphotog
Nov 7, 2003
Thanks for all the help.
Just one ‘left field’ question on the subject before I proceed with the methods described-
Can one run the OS from an external drive ?
I just looked at local computer stores in my town and they sell large extrnal hard drives at a reasonable price.
Is it an option to install XP (and PS CS) on this drive and leave my current internal 20GB drive as is ?
Or will the computer only "see" the internal hard drive and the old OS (Win98SE) which is on it ?
=========================================================
I am running PS 7 on an older Pentium III with 768 MB Ram and Windows
98SE.
I am interested in upgrading to PS CS but since it needs Win 2000 or XP I have a problem. I cant afford a new machine, so how can I upgrade with the least hassle (as all my apps & their tweaks are humming along just nicely)
?
My hard drive is relatively small at 20GB so I dont really have room to simply add another OS & the CS program.
Will a copy of XP just overwrite the 98SE, or what’s the best way to go about this?

If XP will not simply replace Win98SE then a second hard drive ? I dont think my computer has a free bay to add another internal hard drive [since they are relatively cheap, that may be an option – just put the new OS and Photoshop on a separate drive – although I dont know how one would switch between the 2 (operating systems) ] ?

I have a PCI card added to my motherboard to provide USB2 & Firewire
ports.
Perhaps an external drive ?

Any solutions that dont cost too much or have too many pitfalls welcomed
🙂
I know this isn’t strictly speaking a Photoshop question but perhaps other users can help.

thanks,
Frank

EG
Eric Gill
Nov 7, 2003
"fgphotog" wrote in
news:i0Rqb.3400$:

Thanks for all the help.
Just one ‘left field’ question on the subject before I proceed with the methods described-
Can one run the OS from an external drive ?

Yes.

I just looked at local computer stores in my town and they sell large extrnal hard drives at a reasonable price.

If you want to give them a little extra money for putting case and drive together, cool.

Is it an option to install XP (and PS CS) on this drive and leave my current internal 20GB drive as is ?
Or will the computer only "see" the internal hard drive and the old OS (Win98SE) which is on it ?

No. An install of 2K or XP will give you the choice of where to put the new OS, and you will get a choice each time you boot which one you wish to run.
L
lkrz
Nov 7, 2003
Can one run the OS from an external drive ?
I just looked at local computer stores in my town and they sell large extrnal hard drives at a reasonable price.
Is it an option to install XP (and PS CS) on this drive and leave my current internal 20GB drive as is ?
Or will the computer only "see" the internal hard drive and the old OS (Win98SE) which is on it ?

The computer will only see the OS on the internal drive. The drive that runs from the external case is not run from the motherboard. In other words, to get access to the external drive, you need to boot up the internal drive and get the OS on that one to activate firewire/usb and then run the driver to access the external drive.
There may be bootable external drives. I haven’t seen one, at least not with firewire/usb connections.
An alternative is to get a large drive in a case and transfer everything you’ve got stored on the drive in the computer to it, freeing up a lot of space. Just leave your primary programs and OS on the old drive in the computer. I have been able to run programs from the external drive.

http://www.madmousergraphics.com
web design, print design, photography
F
fgphotog
Nov 7, 2003
I do not wish to create a dispute between obviously knowlegeable and helpful people, and my only motive is clarity on the subject, not to fan any fires but …….
…….one person says "computer will only see the OS on the internal drive" and the other says "Yes."
?

====================================================
Thanks for all the help.
Just one ‘left field’ question on the subject before I proceed with the methods described-
Can one run the OS from an external drive ?
I just looked at local computer stores in my town and they sell large extrnal hard drives at a reasonable price.
Is it an option to install XP (and PS CS) on this drive and leave my
current
internal 20GB drive as is ?
Or will the computer only "see" the internal hard drive and the old OS (Win98SE) which is on it ?
=========================================================
I am running PS 7 on an older Pentium III with 768 MB Ram and Windows
98SE.
I am interested in upgrading to PS CS but since it needs Win 2000 or XP
I
have a problem. I cant afford a new machine, so how can I upgrade with
the
least hassle (as all my apps & their tweaks are humming along just
nicely)
?
My hard drive is relatively small at 20GB so I dont really have room to simply add another OS & the CS program.
Will a copy of XP just overwrite the 98SE, or what’s the best way to go about this?

If XP will not simply replace Win98SE then a second hard drive ? I dont think my computer has a free bay to add another internal hard drive

[since
they are relatively cheap, that may be an option – just put the new OS
and
Photoshop on a separate drive – although I dont know how one would
switch
between the 2 (operating systems) ] ?

I have a PCI card added to my motherboard to provide USB2 & Firewire
ports.
Perhaps an external drive ?

Any solutions that dont cost too much or have too many pitfalls welcomed
🙂
I know this isn’t strictly speaking a Photoshop question but perhaps
other
users can help.

thanks,
Frank

L
lkrz
Nov 7, 2003
I do not wish to create a dispute between obviously knowlegeable and helpful people, and my only motive is clarity on the subject, not to fan any fires but …….
……one person says "computer will only see the OS on the internal drive" and the other says "Yes."

From Western Digital FAQs:
Can I boot my computer using an external (FireWire, USB, Combo) hard drive? Answer
Western Digital does not provide technical support for booting your computer using an external hard drive. BIOS manufacturers who design PC system BIOS chips have informed Western Digital that it is not currently possible to boot your computer with an external hard drive. If you intend to make a copy of your boot drive, please use a second internal drive (EIDE or Serial ATA), rather than an external drive.

The bridge/drivers for Firewire/USB have to be working from before the system can tell that the external hard drive exists.
There may have been some drivers written for DOS but personally I wouldn’t fool around with them.
If you want to dual boot, you’ll need to add an internal hard drive that connects to the motherboard and comes on line the same way the drive you have now does.
Check your computer and see if there’s room for another drive and if it has a big enough power supply to support a second drive.

http://www.madmousergraphics.com
web design, print design, photography
J
Jimmy
Nov 7, 2003
"fgphotog" wrote in message
I do not wish to create a dispute between obviously knowlegeable and helpful people, and my only motive is clarity on the subject, not to fan any fires but …….
……one person says "computer will only see the OS on the internal drive" and the other says "Yes."
?

I have always understood that the system bios has to support USB boot drives to allow the drives to be seen when the OS’s boot.ini loads. Most newer motherboards now allow for USB booting, but I rather doubt your PIII machine has updated bios to allow such USB booting. I do suggest you check your MB manufacturer’s website to see what is available for your particular board.

Other possibilities would be to add an additional internal IDE drive. Most older system bios do provide for multiple drives, but some have drive size restrictions. If this isn’t possible, take a look at something similar to Promise’s PCI add-in card which provides its own on-card bios and would
allow you to mount larger sized, faster, bootable internal drives without running into system bios and controller restrictions. The only problem here is having an empty PCI slot and room to mount additional drives inside your case. Another possibility would be a SCSI card and external SCSI drive. Both Promise type cards and SCSI cards allow bootable devices as most older system bios did provide for booting from PCI and SCSI devices. The final option that I know about would be to upgrade to a newer board.
S
Steve
Nov 8, 2003
You may also need to consider this aspect of going over to win2000 or XP. If you are using a mouse to draw with in Pshop and are currently on win98, you will be used to having about 1.5 inch of mat representing the screen width, thats what win98 gives as default anyway , so to draw without overstretching hand from left to right across screen is easy and you can reach all corners without any mad stroking of the mat. BUT win2000/XP/ME ‘out of the box’ doesn’t allow that anymore, its 3 or 4 inches and will feel BLOODY SLOW by comparison to Windows ‘out of the box’. Upping the motion speed setting in mouse properties will return mouse back to win98 speed BUT the cursor will no longer be smooth, the higher the setting the more jagged steppy it gets. Now I am puzzled that I dont hear more of this, as I have tried all mice makes on a number of different PC’s in PC World, I have it happening on my two different makes of win2000 pc’s in the office. Also tested 30 or more office pc’s all with the problem. Microsoft acknowledge its their OS doing it, its at States level but as yet haven’t fixed the problem. Intellipointer software (not Msoft) smooths the cursor out and gives that Win98 speed back of 1.5inch of mat does screen, but testing it on two different PC’s and both win2000 and XP sees it fail from time to time with cursor speeding up and going ragged, shame as when this doesnt happen its great…just what is required.
Its a shame that Adobe havent considered that users may be using a mouse to draw with, as having found the problem existing with no exception so far, (even Msoft can replicate it but as most users dont do graphics, aren’t concerned) it is necessary to use win98 if wishing to use that more ergonomic mouse speed, ….staying with Win98 will in time not be an option. Why not use a tablet then, well my gel wrist rest stops my wrist niggling after 10 mins, and tablets dont allow for gel pad usage. Steve

"Jimmy" wrote in message
"fgphotog" wrote in message
I do not wish to create a dispute between obviously knowlegeable and
helpful
people, and my only motive is clarity on the subject, not to fan any
fires
but …….
……one person says "computer will only see the OS on the internal
drive"
and the other says "Yes."
?

I have always understood that the system bios has to support USB boot
drives to allow the drives to
be seen when the OS’s boot.ini loads. Most newer motherboards now allow
for USB booting, but I
rather doubt your PIII machine has updated bios to allow such USB booting.
I do suggest you check
your MB manufacturer’s website to see what is available for your
particular board.
Other possibilities would be to add an additional internal IDE drive.
Most older system bios do
provide for multiple drives, but some have drive size restrictions. If
this isn’t possible, take a
look at something similar to Promise’s PCI add-in card which provides its
own on-card bios and would
allow you to mount larger sized, faster, bootable internal drives without
running into system bios
and controller restrictions. The only problem here is having an empty PCI
slot and room to mount
additional drives inside your case. Another possibility would be a SCSI
card and external SCSI
drive. Both Promise type cards and SCSI cards allow bootable devices as
most older system bios did
provide for booting from PCI and SCSI devices. The final option that I
know about would be to
upgrade to a newer board.

Must-have mockup pack for every graphic designer 🔥🔥🔥

Easy-to-use drag-n-drop Photoshop scene creator with more than 2800 items.

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