Question about copyrighted pictures

On 5-Feb-2004, "KB" wrote:

I am currently taking a beginning adult education Photoshop class at a local
community college. While I don’t own PS, I do have PS Elements that came bundled with my film scanner.

I have been follwing a few of the recent threads on various newsgroups regarding the copyrighting on photographs. I will be starting a class project soon and the Instructor keeps reiterating that no copyrighted images
will be used. To be honest I am confused on a few points and I do not want to violate any copyrights.

My questions/comments are as follows:

1.) I need a picture of an alligator or crocodile. I Googled the image section and found a few. I disregarded sites that had a copyright protection notice as I do not have time to contact the copyright holder for
permission to use them.

2.) What about the rest. If there is no copyright notice, is copyright assumed. In other words is every image assumed to have copyright protection
at the time a shutter is pushed or does an image have to be registered at the Library of Congress to have copyright protection. If the former, does that mean that no image obtained from the internet can be used?

Copyright is assumed with or without markings.

3.) Tonight after work I will be searching back issues of magazines for anything good to scan for class. I understand that if I bought the magazine
or book I can use the image.

Wrong.

4.) None of my work will be available for sale. That’s because I am still a
"rank" amatuer 🙂

Thanks,

There are some public domain sources of images. Check the library of congress web site. You could also buy one of the many cleap ‘clip-art’ photography collections.

This site will help you figure out what’s in the public domain. http://cidc.library.cornell.edu/copyright/

—
Tom Thackrey
www.creative-light.com
tom (at) creative (dash) light (dot) com
do NOT send email to (it’s reserved for spammers)

"KB" writes:

I have been follwing a few of the recent threads on various newsgroups regarding the copyrighting on photographs. I will be starting a class project soon and the Instructor keeps reiterating that no copyrighted images will be used. To be honest I am confused on a few points and I do not want to violate any copyrights.
SNIP<

Hi, K,

Copyright law isn’t rocket science. Please take a look at http://www.philipstripling.com/ilaw.html
for links to recognized authorities on copyright and to the law itself.

You don’t say where in the world you are, so there’s no sure answer to your question; although copyright laws are generally uniform throughout the world, there are national differences.

_Generally_, an image is copyrighted the moment it is ‘fixed in a medium.’ This means the film is exposed or the digital image is written to Compact Flash or whatever is used to store the image. Whether a copyright notice is apparent or not has no bearing on whether an image is copyrighted. So you are not safe using a picture you find on the Web or in a magazine without a copyright notice.

Getting an image and altering it does not make it your own; the image is copyrighted, and your alteration is called a derivative work; only the owner of the copyright can authorize derivative works.

Being a bad artist is not an excuse from following copyright law ("but officer, I’m a bad driver" doesn’t get you off, either, right? :->).

Doing a search on Google exactly as follows got me 740,000 hits, some of which look like what you need:
+"royalty free" +images

Have fun, and thanks for making sure you’re following the guidelines for proper use of another’s property.

—
Philip Stripling | email to the replyto address is presumed Legal Assistance on the Web | spam and read later. email to philip@ http://www.PhilipStripling.com/ | my domain is read daily.

On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 09:27:40 -0800, "KB"
scribbled:

I am currently taking a beginning adult education Photoshop class at a local community college. While I don’t own PS, I do have PS Elements that came bundled with my film scanner.

I have been follwing a few of the recent threads on various newsgroups regarding the copyrighting on photographs. I will be starting a class project soon and the Instructor keeps reiterating that no copyrighted images will be used. To be honest I am confused on a few points and I do not want to violate any copyrights.

My questions/comments are as follows:

1.) I need a picture of an alligator or crocodile. I Googled the image section and found a few. I disregarded sites that had a copyright protection notice as I do not have time to contact the copyright holder for permission to use them.

2.) What about the rest. If there is no copyright notice, is copyright assumed. In other words is every image assumed to have copyright protection at the time a shutter is pushed or does an image have to be registered at the Library of Congress to have copyright protection. If the former, does that mean that no image obtained from the internet can be used?
3.) Tonight after work I will be searching back issues of magazines for anything good to scan for class. I understand that if I bought the magazine or book I can use the image.

4.) None of my work will be available for sale. That’s because I am still a "rank" amatuer 🙂

In addition to all the good advice you’ve already been given (i.e. it’s ALL copyrighted) go here and look for the gator or croc pictures you need, they’re public domain: http://images.fws.gov/

The easiest way to resolve it is to e-mail the author explaining that you’d like to use his/her photograph for a school project and you’d like their permission. I get requests like that pretty frequently, and I typically let people use them for non-commercial use and a fixed period of time (like 6 months.)

"KB" wrote in message

I am currently taking a beginning adult education Photoshop class at a

local

community college. While I don’t own PS, I do have PS Elements that came bundled with my film scanner.

I have been follwing a few of the recent threads on various newsgroups regarding the copyrighting on photographs. I will be starting a class project soon and the Instructor keeps reiterating that no copyrighted

images

will be used. To be honest I am confused on a few points and I do not want to violate any copyrights.

My questions/comments are as follows:

1.) I need a picture of an alligator or crocodile. I Googled the image section and found a few. I disregarded sites that had a copyright protection notice as I do not have time to contact the copyright holder

for

permission to use them.

All photos taken after approximately 1927 are protected by copyright (unless they defaulted into the public domain due to failure to renew a registration, publication prior to registration before 1978, or procedural errors, e.g. failure to include a notice for pre-1978 works. Post-1978, all that is required for copyright protection is fixation of a work of authorship in a tangible medium. Notice is not required. You almost certainly can’t use these photographs without permission.

2.) What about the rest. If there is no copyright notice, is copyright assumed.

Yes.

In other words is every image assumed to have copyright protection at the time a shutter is pushed or does an image have to be registered at the Library of Congress to have copyright protection.

Registration is a prerequisite for an infringement action (if the photo was created in the US). It also confers certain benefits, e.g. presumption of ownership and validity, eligibility for statutory damages, etc. However, works are protected upon fixation in a tangible medium — no registration required.

If the former, does
that mean that no image obtained from the internet can be used?

If the image is in the public domain it can be used.

3.) Tonight after work I will be searching back issues of magazines for anything good to scan for class. I understand that if I bought the

magazine

or book I can use the image.

No, you cannot. Owning a lawful copy of a protected work does not allow you to make your own copies or derivative works. Your use may constitute a fair use, which is a _defense_ to infringement, i.e. but for the defense of fair use what you’d be doing would result in liability for infringement, but without knowing a lot more about what you’re doing I couldn’t say.

4.) None of my work will be available for sale. That’s because I am still

a

"rank" amatuer 🙂

Doesn’t matter.

Thanks,

KB

ksrbrown at hotmail.com

On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 09:27:40 -0800, "KB"
wrote:

I am currently taking a beginning adult education Photoshop class at a local community college.

I see that you have had the answers re copyright.

Personably, I am quite sensitive about my copyrights BUT if it were to be used by a student for his/her lessons, I certainly would not gripe. I would say Help Yourself.

I would not get upperty, if I discovered it had been used without my consent, if it were for that purpose.

I am sure that 99% of copyright holders would feel the same. (As long as it is not published other than in college.)
—
Donald Gray
Putting ODCOMBE on the Global Village Map!
www.odcombe.demon.co.uk
You do not have to email me, but if you wish to…
Please remove the SafetyPin from my email address first
Thanks

if you only using it for a college project…and it wont be on-line….i really wouldnt worry about it.

however..it will be used on-line….even for an amature web site with no profit…DO contact the photographer….in my experience they are pretty easy going with sharing as long as you give them some credit on the site. (in my case i was looking for a picture of the Dakota Hotel for a NYC collage….didnt feel like shlepping up the the UWS to take it myself. found a great shot on line…contacted the photographer..and he had NO problem at all with me using his shot. Again..that is one photographer…some i am sure am very uptight.)

I am mindfull of other peoples property tho. I took a photo of this shops store sign….and have altered one letter that makes it quite humorous an particularily perfect for my site….however i DONT use it cuz it contains their cool logo work).

ok..im rambling…hope that ads something to the plethera of advise you have already recieved.

"Donald Gray" wrote in message

On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 09:27:40 -0800, "KB"
wrote:

I am currently taking a beginning adult education Photoshop class at a

local

community college.

I see that you have had the answers re copyright.

Personably, I am quite sensitive about my copyrights BUT if it were to be used by a student for his/her lessons, I certainly would not gripe. I would say Help Yourself.

I would not get upperty, if I discovered it had been used without my consent, if it were for that purpose.

I am sure that 99% of copyright holders would feel the same. (As long as it is not published other than in college.)
—
Donald Gray
Putting ODCOMBE on the Global Village Map!
www.odcombe.demon.co.uk
You do not have to email me, but if you wish to…
Please remove the SafetyPin from my email address first
Thanks

"KB" wrote:

4.) None of my work will be available for sale. That’s because I am still a "rank" amatuer 🙂

In the United States, unless there is a signed contract indicating otherwise, the photographer owns the copyright to an image immediately after he clicks on the shutter release. (This is an over simplification. But we’re not really concerned with work for hire you.)

That said, just because somebody else owns the copyright to an image does not automatically mean that you cannot use it. There are "fair use" considerations. I believe that in an educational setting you can claim "fair use" if you are using a copyrighted image in the course of an assignment. I don’t know all the details of this, but as long as you only use the image for your class assignment and don’t display what you have done outside the classroom, you should be fine.

If you decide that you want to display your homework on your web site, you may run afoul of the fair use provision.

"KB" wrote in message

My questions/comments are as follows:

1.) I need a picture of an alligator or crocodile. I Googled the image section and found a few. I disregarded sites that had a copyright protection notice as I do not have time to contact the copyright holder

for

permission to use them.

2.) What about the rest. If there is no copyright notice, is copyright assumed. In other words is every image assumed to have copyright

protection

at the time a shutter is pushed or does an image have to be registered at the Library of Congress to have copyright protection. If the former, does that mean that no image obtained from the internet can be used?

Copyright protection is to be assumed, unless specifically waived. Your best bet is to do a search for photos listed as "public domain", and print out the section of the website which makes the claim, just to cover yourself.

3.) Tonight after work I will be searching back issues of magazines for anything good to scan for class. I understand that if I bought the

magazine

or book I can use the image.

Purchase of a book is generally allotted to "personal use". Reproducing art or text therein may likewise be considered a violation. Read the fine print which is generally located on the publisher or table of contents page. It should say whether reproduction permission is granted. If it’s not in there, don’t assume it’s allowed.

4.) None of my work will be available for sale. That’s because I am still

a

"rank" amatuer 🙂

Everyone has to start somewhere. 😉

Photos taken by government employees in the course of their duties are in the public domain because they were paid for with your taxes. That’s my understanding. That’s why everyone and his uncle has NASA pictures. Go to the Department of the Interior, or other gov site, and look for your croc. In any case, your teacher has the right to make the rules for his class. However, I don’t think it would be a copyright violation if he made one copy per student of a croc picture. According to "The Public Domain" by Nolo Press, it sounds like your croc pix would fall under the educational fair use guidelines. You can get a copy at the Copyright Office website at www.loc.gov/copyright/circs/circ21.pdf

—
Best regards,
Craig Scheiner
Executive Producer
CPS Associates
Video Production and Publication
www.cpsvideo.net

"KB" wrote in message

I am currently taking a beginning adult education Photoshop class at a

local

community college. While I don’t own PS, I do have PS Elements that came bundled with my film scanner.

I have been follwing a few of the recent threads on various newsgroups regarding the copyrighting on photographs. I will be starting a class project soon and the Instructor keeps reiterating that no copyrighted

images

will be used. To be honest I am confused on a few points and I do not want to violate any copyrights.

My questions/comments are as follows:

1.) I need a picture of an alligator or crocodile. I Googled the image section and found a few. I disregarded sites that had a copyright protection notice as I do not have time to contact the copyright holder

for

permission to use them.

2.) What about the rest. If there is no copyright notice, is copyright assumed. In other words is every image assumed to have copyright

protection

at the time a shutter is pushed or does an image have to be registered at the Library of Congress to have copyright protection. If the former, does that mean that no image obtained from the internet can be used?
3.) Tonight after work I will be searching back issues of magazines for anything good to scan for class. I understand that if I bought the

magazine

or book I can use the image.

4.) None of my work will be available for sale. That’s because I am still

a

"rank" amatuer 🙂

Thanks,

KB

ksrbrown at hotmail.com

On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 18:16:58 -0500, "jrzyguy"
wrote:

if you only using it for a college project…and it wont be on-line….i really wouldnt worry about it.

That was not the point.

The instructor said not to use copyrighted material. To me that means not to use it even with permission.

When I was in college, which wasn’t all that long ago, (I graduated in 90), when an instructor said not to use copy righted material he or she meant that literally. Different schools and different times, but were it me, I’d check to find out if copyrighted material "with permission" was permissible. Otherwise, there is a huge pool of public domain stuff available from the government sites.

As has been pretty well determined, almost anything on the net is copyrighted, "unless" it actually says, "public Domain". Even material that says "may be used freely for personal use", does not eliminate the copyright.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

On Thu, 05 Feb 2004 17:32:04 -0600, wrote:

"KB" wrote:

4.) None of my work will be available for sale. That’s because I am still a "rank" amatuer 🙂

In the United States, unless there is a signed contract indicating otherwise, the photographer owns the copyright to an image immediately after he clicks on the shutter release. (This is an over simplification. But we’re not really concerned with work for hire you.)

That said, just because somebody else owns the copyright to an image does not automatically mean that you cannot use it. There are "fair use"

Fair use does not apply. The instructor said not to use copyrighted material.

Roger Halstead (K8RI & ARRL life member)
(N833R, S# CD-2 Worlds oldest Debonair)
www.rogerhalstead.com

considerations. I believe that in an educational setting you can claim "fair use" if you are using a copyrighted image in the course of an assignment. I don’t know all the details of this, but as long as you only use the image for your class assignment and don’t display what you have done outside the classroom, you should be fine.

If you decide that you want to display your homework on your web site, you may run afoul of the fair use provision.

What a minefield copyright seems to be.

Consider the dozens of websites where Photoshop contests take place and everyday famous people and celebrity images are used and manipulated.People in the public eye seem to have less rights than the rest of us. "Parody" seems to enable an image to be taken and used, then the question arises concerning the copyright for the original photographer of that image. Lawyers must love the Copyright Laws in place throughout the world.

Roger Halstead writes:

On Thu, 5 Feb 2004 18:16:58 -0500, "jrzyguy"
wrote:

if you only using it for a college project…and it wont be on-line….i really wouldnt worry about it.

That was not the point.

The instructor said not to use copyrighted material. To me that means not to use it even with permission.

Well the problem is since 1987 in the US, and earlier in Europe, every picture taken is automatically copyrighted by the photographer (before the US signed the Bearne convention, you had to register the picture with the copyright office). You can release a picture to the public domain, or have a copyright that says anybody can use it. I assume the instructor meant do not use copyrighted material unless you are the copyright holder, but if he/she really meant no copyrighted material, you might have to find something that is explicitly released to the public domain, or pre-1987.

—
Michael Meissner
email:
http://www.the-meissners.org

"Manticore" wrote in message

What a minefield copyright seems to be.

Consider the dozens of websites where Photoshop contests take place and everyday famous people and celebrity images are used and manipulated.People in the public eye seem to have less rights than the

rest

of us. "Parody" seems to enable an image to be taken and used, then the question arises concerning the copyright for the original photographer of that image. Lawyers must love the Copyright Laws in place throughout the world.

People in the public eye are generally default-bound to be photographed, recorded, hounded for autographs, beset upon by crazed fanclubs, etc.. It’s predisposed that they will be photographed, and it’s the photographer’s picture to copyright, and no one else’s. The difference lies in stealing a film made by someone else, or telling the photographer he or she can’t use their own property as they see fit.

It’s a definite contrast, as the average person doesn’t worry about professional photo-shoots, image endorsement, representation, etc…

Consider the dozens of websites where Photoshop contests take place and everyday famous people and celebrity images are used and manipulated. People in the public eye seem to have less rights than the rest of us.

At least in the U.S., once one enters the public eye voluntarily, they do have fewer rights when it comes to defamation and privacy torts. No "seeming" about it.

"Parody" seems to enable an image to be taken and used, then the question arises concerning the copyright for the original photographer of that image.

Which questions arise? The copyright on the original work remains unchanged.

Lawyers must love the Copyright Laws in place throughout the world.

Here’s a couple of secrets. First, most attorneys never handle an intellectual property case. I would guess that less than half ever take a course in the subject.

Second, in order for a copyright case to make the jump into real courtrooms, it has to be worth suing over. If you assume that "worth suing" equates to "financial gain," you’ll rarely be wrong. In the U.S., unless you register your work within 3 months of publication or before the infringement occurs, your recovery is limited to actual damages and any additional profits of the infringer.

Worse, many infringers are "judgment proof." They simply don’t have enough assets to make a lawsuit worthwhile. The combination of the registration requirement, the cost of bringing a suit in federal court, and judgment proof infringers deters all but the juiciest lawsuits.

—
Michael Benveniste —
Spam and UCE professionally evaluated for $250. Use this email address only to submit mail for evaluation.

Errr, only partially correct.

Let’s take a look at the case of governmentally obtained Hubble images. Your tax dollars may have put the scope in orbit and the dollars being used by the researchers may have come from a government grant. Nonetheless, the images obtained in that case don’t become public domain until STSCI releases them, which occurs sometime after the original acquisition in order to protect the researcher’s intellectual property rights and ability to publish the material. PR campaigns, where the images are released immediately, are typically a different issue.

As with so many of the other examples posted in this thread, erring on the side of just assuming use and grabbing the goods w/o contacting the original parties is not a good idea. Get a hold of the folks who posted the image and *ask* first.

Craig Scheiner wrote:

Photos taken by government employees in the course of their duties are in the public domain because they were paid for with your taxes. That’s my understanding. That’s why everyone and his uncle has NASA pictures. Go to the Department of the Interior, or other gov site, and look for your croc. In any case, your teacher has the right to make the rules for his class. However, I don’t think it would be a copyright violation if he made one copy per student of a croc picture. According to "The Public Domain" by Nolo Press, it sounds like your croc pix would fall under the educational fair use guidelines. You can get a copy at the Copyright Office website at www.loc.gov/copyright/circs/circ21.pdf

—
Best regards,
Craig Scheiner
Executive Producer
CPS Associates
Video Production and Publication
www.cpsvideo.net

"KB" wrote in message

I am currently taking a beginning adult education Photoshop class at a

local

community college. While I don’t own PS, I do have PS Elements that came bundled with my film scanner.

I have been follwing a few of the recent threads on various newsgroups regarding the copyrighting on photographs. I will be starting a class project soon and the Instructor keeps reiterating that no copyrighted

images

will be used. To be honest I am confused on a few points and I do not want to violate any copyrights.

My questions/comments are as follows:

1.) I need a picture of an alligator or crocodile. I Googled the image section and found a few. I disregarded sites that had a copyright protection notice as I do not have time to contact the copyright holder

for

permission to use them.

2.) What about the rest. If there is no copyright notice, is copyright assumed. In other words is every image assumed to have copyright

protection

at the time a shutter is pushed or does an image have to be registered at the Library of Congress to have copyright protection. If the former, does that mean that no image obtained from the internet can be used?
3.) Tonight after work I will be searching back issues of magazines for anything good to scan for class. I understand that if I bought the

magazine

or book I can use the image.

4.) None of my work will be available for sale. That’s because I am still

a

"rank" amatuer 🙂

Thanks,

KB

ksrbrown at hotmail.com

Haven’t read the other replies yet.

Martin

KB wrote:

I am currently taking a beginning adult education Photoshop class at a local community college. While I don’t own PS, I do have PS Elements that came bundled with my film scanner.

I have been follwing a few of the recent threads on various newsgroups regarding the copyrighting on photographs. I will be starting a class project soon and the Instructor keeps reiterating that no copyrighted images will be used. To be honest I am confused on a few points and I do not want to violate any copyrights.

My questions/comments are as follows:

1.) I need a picture of an alligator or crocodile. I Googled the image section and found a few. I disregarded sites that had a copyright protection notice as I do not have time to contact the copyright holder for permission to use them.

All images whether or not they have a copyright notice are still protected by copyright.

2.) What about the rest. If there is no copyright notice, is copyright assumed. In other words is every image assumed to have copyright protection at the time a shutter is pushed or does an image have to be registered at the Library of Congress to have copyright protection. If the former, does that mean that no image obtained from the internet can be used?

Depends on the use and/or on the wishes of the owner. There are a lot of stuff on the web that is "free" because the owners allow it to be. Also, fair use guidelines allow for non-commercial use of copyright material for "educational" purposes – but the use is conditional and has limits.

3.) Tonight after work I will be searching back issues of magazines for anything good to scan for class. I understand that if I bought the magazine or book I can use the image.

Buying a magazine or book doesn’t give you license to use the images contained in them, not unless such use is spelled out somewhere in the publication. However, if you are using the images for a class, such use may fall under fair use.

http://www.umuc.edu/library/copy.html#student

Fair use allows for students to use photos / images in school projects;

* Illustrations or photographs:
no more than five images from one artist or photographer. no more than 10% or 15 images, whichever is less, from a collection.

4.) None of my work will be available for sale. That’s because I am still a "rank" amatuer 🙂

As long as it only "appears" in the classroom most of your work will probably fall under fair use – however, if you plan on later using what you created in the class in your portfolio, then you shouldn’t use anything without the original owner’s permission.

Martin

Thanks,

KB

ksrbrown at hotmail.com