To Chris Cox, about installing on Windows 98SE/ME OS

VV
Posted By
Voxo_Voxo
Jan 24, 2004
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2192
Replies
106
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Closed
Chris, Microsoft has extended support for next 2 years for OS Win98SE/ME. Is there any problem that you can’t support these systems like in 7.0? There is sooooooo small difference between your 8.0 or CS (or whatever) version and 7.0, I can say insignificant. This is no "fit" argument about large files… what the hell are large files (over 4GB) for, when Photoshop has problems with files already about 500MB ???!!!
Unicode (CE fonts e.g.) NEVER worked correctly neither in <7.0 nor in 8.0. So what it is all about? This is not only software for Universal Americans, whole world uses it, so please respect all conditions!
Till 8.0 there are no crash protection in Photoshop. Software looses all the information in seconds after crash leaving giant needless temporary file on hdd. Why you rather don’t spend your time to fix this major defect? It can’t be professional tool without crash protection. (Look at Cool Edit Pro – your Adobe Audition copy, how it has to be done)
I think Adobe will start to loose their customers thanks to these simple problems. There are so many customers that use WIN98SE/ME, so they will stuck on version 7.0, it’s only your problem and your business.
Also, Adobe Audition (Cool Edit Pro) is another great NON-ADOBE software, which ADOBE stands for. I hope the same silly politics will not change the face of this type of software. It perfectly worked on win95. Thanks for changing your opinion…
I’m awaiting your product once in 5 years, but PERFECTLY WORKING, the strategy about quick realeasing shitty products is definitely bad. No one will buy them.
Voxo f/ Slovakia

Must-have mockup pack for every graphic designer πŸ”₯πŸ”₯πŸ”₯

Easy-to-use drag-n-drop Photoshop scene creator with more than 2800 items.

RL
Robert_Levine
Jan 24, 2004
Chris has made his opinion of the entire Win 9x O/S many times. I sincerely doubt that your post is going to get you a new version of any Adobe software that will run on Win 9x.

And FWIW, I think Adobe did the right thing in dropping support for those operating systems. They just aren’t anywhere near as stable as Win2K or WinXP.

Bob
JS
Jeff_Schewe
Jan 24, 2004
First of all, this is a USER TO USER forum so if you wish to have your point of viewed by Adobe, send it to Adobe not other users. While Chris comes around from time to time, he does so pretty much on hiw OWN time and not as an official presence.

Second, whether MS extended support or not is not an issue, the issue is one of just how many flavors of OS an application must support and what level of engineering resources are consumed. Photoshop CS also dropped support for Mac 9.x and only runs in OS X. Why? Because OS X, Win 2K and XP Pro provide the required system level functionality and ealrier OS’s simply are too primitive.

Photoshop is a pro level tool and needs pro level OS functionality which Win98SE/ME doesn’t provide. If you need Win98SE/ME, run Photoshop Elements. Or update to a modern OS like Win 2K or XP. Better update the boxes too since CS requires P III or 4 processors as well.
VV
Voxo_Voxo
Jan 24, 2004
this is definitely not true. Stability problems and crash protection are two different things and Adobe doesn’t have to care for stability of Microsoft OS, but stability of Photoshop itself. I have Win98SE and I don’t know better system for my PC. Win 2K/XP has many bugs like large amount of memory consuming, enormous swapping (especially in 8.0), etc… so these are not correct arguments. But definitely, it is problem of Adobe. Many customers they will lost.
VV
Voxo_Voxo
Jan 24, 2004
oh, what is "PRO level" functionality of 2k/XP? :o) BTW… Win98SE is only 6 months older than 2k. ME is newer… so can I think ME is "more" modern than 2k?
DM
dave_milbut
Jan 24, 2004
Win 2K/XP has many bugs

hehehe! If you had an etch a sketch you could shake it to reboot!

what is "PRO level" functionality of 2k/XP?

memory handling. large disk sizes. installable/usable memory amounts. crash protection. process isolation. new technology support. etc. you can look those big words up if you don’t understand.
Z
z070tso
Jan 24, 2004
To be honest, I do not post that much in the Photoshop forum, but Voxo Voxo is missing it totaly here.

First of all, Microsoft did indeed extended the support on W98SE, but it is now around for another 2 years as PAID SUPPORT. Reading your posts, I guess you will start complaining to the userforums of Microsoft trying to get Bill Gates’s comment on this.

Secondly, W98SE is a platform based on DOS, while from W2K it is based on NT. It is no fairy tale, just go to ANY respectable site, it will tell you that W2K and XP are the best PC OS’s of this moment.

Thirdly, Adobe like other software companies design software based on what an OS can offer. At this moment you can already see some software being on the market ONLY supported by XP (like Premiere Pro). When Longhorn comes out, think what might happen even to W2K!

As someone else already suggested, you must look for another PC that will support XP and Photoshop CS. But besides all of that, spend sometime reading the Microsoft sites and others on the specs of a PS like XP. More importantly, get a box with XP, play with it for a couple of horus, and you immediately will notice the difference. Or is the main reason that you have several other only W98SE supported applications on your PC? If that is the case, for an additional 150 USD you can buy MS Virtual PC2004 which runs on XP. You can multi use and swap between OS’s, from DOS to XP, as it were running on that specific OS.

Cheers
DM
dave_milbut
Jan 24, 2004
nice post z070tso.

just go to ANY respectable site, it will tell you that W2K and XP are the best PC OS’s of this moment.

what are we? chopped liver?!! πŸ™‚

ou can multi use and swap between OS’s, from DOS to XP, as it were running on that specific OS.

even linux under xp! i just got VPC and am going to load it up on monday on my win2k box at work! i’ve heard great things about it!
SM
Stuart_McCoy
Jan 24, 2004
voxo voxo

"…the strategy about quick realeasing shitty products is definitely bad."

Why do people write crap liek this? Does it make it more true simply because it’s written down? Adobe makes very good procucts that may have minor problems but they are far from as bad as you claim them to be. You need to explain your problems in detail before anyone begins to consider your problems with any sincerity.

No Dave, you’re duck liver pattΓ©e. It’s more purΓ©ed than chopped really. πŸ˜‰
DM
dave_milbut
Jan 24, 2004
you’re duck liver pattΓ©e

ewww. I prefer Braunschweiger.
SM
Stuart_McCoy
Jan 24, 2004
Yeah well Dave, we don’t always get what we want. You’re duck liver pattΓ©e so get used to it. πŸ™‚
Z
z070tso
Jan 24, 2004
Dave,

By sites I meant other then these, of course!!!

Had to look it up, but it really also does Linux, see

< http://www.microsoft.com/PRODUCTS/info/product.aspx?view=22& amp;pcid=ba9e68ed-9571-4d10-82d2-b51828c33297&type=ovr>

Oh, Voxo Voxo, you got already a discount, it is not 150 USD but 129!!

And now I also understand why everyone ignores the remarks from Stuart…

Cheers
MR
Mike Russell
Jan 24, 2004
It is inappropriate to saddle Chris with responsibility for Adobe’s Win9X policy when his participation in this group is voluntary and generally of a helpful and concise technical nature.

If I’m mistaken, my apologies, but the tone and attitude, as well as the nick are a close match to Voxoid, a well-known troll in the other Photoshop groups.


Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

wrote:
Chris, Microsoft has extended support for next 2 years for OS Win98SE/ME. Is there any problem that you can’t support these systems like in 7.0? There is sooooooo small difference between your 8.0 or CS (or whatever) version and 7.0, I can say insignificant. This is no "fit" argument about large files… what the hell are large files (over 4GB) for, when Photoshop has problems with files already about 500MB ???!!! Unicode (CE fonts e.g.) NEVER worked correctly neither in <7.0 nor in 8.0. So what it is all about? This is not only software for Universal Americans, whole world uses it, so please respect all conditions!
Till 8.0 there are no crash protection in Photoshop. Software looses all the information in seconds after crash leaving giant needless temporary file on hdd. Why you rather don’t spend your time to fix this major defect? It can’t be professional tool without crash protection. (Look at Cool Edit Pro – your Adobe Audition copy, how it has to be done)
I think Adobe will start to loose their customers thanks to these simple problems. There are so many customers that use WIN98SE/ME, so they will stuck on version 7.0, it’s only your problem and your business.
Also, Adobe Audition (Cool Edit Pro) is another great NON-ADOBE software, which ADOBE stands for. I hope the same silly politics will not change the face of this type of software. It perfectly worked on win95. Thanks for changing your opinion…
I’m awaiting your product once in 5 years, but PERFECTLY WORKING, the strategy about quick realeasing shitty products is definitely bad. No one will buy them.
Voxo f/ Slovakia
DM
dave_milbut
Jan 24, 2004
I got my VPC for free. Enterprise MSDN member paid for through work! πŸ™‚ Excellent!!! Just downloaded it friday. With a snow day coming on Monday (New Jersey) I’ll probably be the only one in the office so I can play with it all day! πŸ™‚
Z
z070tso
Jan 24, 2004
Me too, received it this week, but have not played with it yet. I have the same type of generous boss, isn’t that a great!! There are still some left…

Cheers
RL
Robert_Levine
Jan 24, 2004
so can I think ME is "more" modern than 2k?

Sure, go ahead. You can also think the world is flat and the Bill Clinton didn’t have sex with that woman…

Bob
DM
dave_milbut
Jan 25, 2004
Bill Clinton didn’t have sex with that woman…

well, that depends on what you mean by "have sex with"… πŸ™‚
SM
Stuart_McCoy
Jan 25, 2004
"And now I also understand why everyone ignores the remarks from Stuart…"

By everyone you mean you and your five…er, nevermind. πŸ™‚

And what comments? I’m now a big meanie for suggesting that someone actually quantify their accusations instead of following the current internet trend of taking things at face value and believing everything that’s written here? If you’re going to make such a sweeping statement as "…the strategy about quick realeasing shitty products is definitely bad. No one will buy them", you should have a little bit of evidence to back it up.
RH
r_harvey
Jan 25, 2004
I think Windows98 is nice. Sure it leaks memory, and it doesn’t do Unicode right, and everything to do with networking is a horrible hack, and nothing much works as it’s documented–if it’s documented at all.

I’ve been using it every day since it was called Chicago, and I can feel it in my bones ten minutes before Windows98 crashes. I think it’s nice.

Last post before Len makes it R/O?
DC
Dan_Crescent
Jan 25, 2004
Last post before Len makes it R/O?

nyuck nyuck. Nope.
DM
dave_milbut
Jan 25, 2004
and I can feel it in my bones ten minutes before Windows98 crashes.

I used to get a chill in me molars when she was about to go belly up! Yarrrrr!
VV
Voxo_Voxo
Jan 25, 2004
Please look at the thread what are you writing about… What a crappy discussion. Please read my post again and tell me the answers on my questions… or I will think this forum is as stupid as the sum of all contributors…
Still it don’t make any change of buying new Photoshop. I will not buy windows XP not because of money, but because I don’t want it. I spent a lot of time with it and I think it’s the most user-unfriendly system I ever saw… so much colors, stupid icons, behaviour… looking back to professionals, win2k is the last one. When you wrote about memory handling, it’s real fake, but when you believe that, it’s only your problem.
P
Phosphor
Jan 25, 2004
Pattern detection alarm:Ringing off the hook.
JD
Jeff_Darken
Jan 25, 2004
Dear Voxo,

I too liked W98SE but about 10 months ago changed to XP. I have to say that XP is much better. You can make it look just like W98 if you are more comfortable with that. In 10 months XP has never crashed, whereas the BSOD was quite regular on W98. Having had 3.0, 3.1, 95, 98 and now XP I am clear that XP is by far the best OS that I have experience of.

As for CS I didn’t buy it, I don’t have to worry about activation and I can scan currency if I wish.

Jeff
VV
Voxo_Voxo
Jan 25, 2004
dear Jeff,
I can say, it always depends on your hardware. When you have bad hardware, you can have many BSOD even in XP as in W98. Even bad driver for e.g. your AC97 audio device can crash your XP to BSOD (as I experienced about week ago). And fact, that Microsoft replaced BSOD in many cases by small screen saying about error with sending message to Microsoft nothing changes about stability of the system itself. I can tell that from all the NT OS was Win2k the best. Unhappily WinXP had 63000 bugs at start, which win98SE didn’t have. Also many new viruses will hit kernel of NT systems better than kernel of 9x. When you have enough memory in 98, you don’t need swap file, so performance in programs like Photoshop is much much faster… πŸ˜‰
FN
Fred_Nirque
Jan 25, 2004
So Voxo Voxo, at this point you can accept that CS won’t ever run on your antiquated 98SE, go back to using whatever previous edition of PS you used and desist from posting your arrogant and insulting posts on this forum.

Generally folk here help each other out, not post condescending nonsense as you have in this thread. If you like 95/98 so much, then use it, but don’t expect the rest of us to get trapped in that inefficient time-warp to satisfy your prejudices.

Sure, some of us are having a few issues with CS, but compared to PS6 on 98, CS on XP simply kicks major butt. Period. Perhaps if you learned to use it properly……….

And before you get too uppity – no, I am not a "Universal American".

(Pattern easily spotted, Phosphor, but I couldn’t resist.)

Fred.
VV
Voxo_Voxo
Jan 25, 2004
Dear Fred, I addressed my "condescending nonsense" to the one direct person and simultaneously to the Adobe team. Maybe it’s true, that I should rather post it directly to Adobe, but in phorum, there are many people who could agree with me. If you consider this post as arrogant and insulting then read my posts and then posts of the others. If this is democratic phorum, then I CAN posts my own opinion and I CAN wait to your help with my problem. If you can’t help me, don’t post any worthless push arounds. Thank you.
FN
Fred_Nirque
Jan 25, 2004
Touche, Phosphor, I should have known better.

Fred.
RL
Robert_Levine
Jan 25, 2004
but in phorum, there are many people who could agree with me.

They could. They could also agree that Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy are real.

Bob
SM
Stuart_McCoy
Jan 25, 2004
What?!? Santa Claus isn’t real? And the tooth fairy too?!?!?!?
VV
Voxo_Voxo
Jan 25, 2004
What are you talking about ?! :-/ Is this phorum about Santa Claus or something? Sorry, I must be wrong…
DP
Daryl_Pritchard
Jan 25, 2004
Voxo Voxo,

I hear what you’re saying and I understand your perspective. When we get comfortable with something and trust it, as seems to be your case with Windows 98SE, then we do become reluctant to move to something newer. Plus, what if we have quite a bit of money invested in programs that won’t run under the newer operating systems? Well, Windows XP does have a compatibility mode that may help out with some, but not all, older applications.

Overall, I just say that this is the price of progress. Comparing the number of problems in Windows XP to Windows 98 isn’t all too fair a comparison. XP is a much more complex operating system and I’d say more problems are to be expected initially. As I recall, even Windows 98 had quite a few problems initially, but Second Edition cleand up much of that and overall Windows 98SE with all subsequent updates has indeed become a very stable platform for many users. Still, XP has matured pretty well also and is much less likely to go to a BSOD than is Win98SE in my opinion. Again, much does indeed depend upon having current drivers and such, but that is pretty well true of any O/S.

Personally, I’ve found Windows XP to be exemplary, but I’ll add that I am using the Pro version. Networking is far easier than anything other than Windows 2000, where the improvement is less significant but still there.

As for your concerns about the appearance of Windows XP, foreget about them…you can easily switch over to the classic interface and feel nearly as if you’re using Windows 98SE again. I favor the classic interface myself, and I applaud that Microsoft provides the user with the option not only to choose the XP or classic interface, but to also further refine what visual effects are active (some are useful, some not, but many can impact performance on a slower PC).

True enough, Windows Me is a newer O/S and thus I understand why you’d question Photoshop CS not being supported by it. Well, I think I was one of the lucky few who liked Windows Me. Even installed as an upgrade over Windows 98SE on my laptop, WinME was one of the easiest and most reliable upgrades I ever did. On my desktop, there were a couple of minor problems mostly related to networking, and that was it. My experience notwithstanding, I’d say the greater majority of Windows Me users found it a step backward rather than forward. All in all, Windows Me was a "mistake" to even release, so I’m not at all surprised that it isn’t among the OSes which PS CS will run on. A bigger reason though is again that PS CS is probably designed around O/S operations that are unique to the NT architecture…that’s a guess on my part.

Perhaps not a great comparison, but I’d say this could be contrasted with USB ports: Back when I was running Windows NT4 and found it meeting my needs very well, I was somewhat reluctant to upgrade to Windows 2000, fearing a whole new slew of problems. But, I wanted the flexibility of USB ports, not to mention better plug-and-play support and other things. So, the cost of gaining new technology was to take that leap of faith and move up to Windows 2000. I’ve never regretted that move except that it cost me the loss of my Epson 1200C scanner, as Epson quit supporting the drivers for that scanner. Fortunately, LaserSoft Silverfast rescued me.

As quickly as computer technology advances, it doesn’t take long for a product or software to become "antique", and Windows 98 is surely approaching that status if not already there. But, I do think it will remain on many a PC for several years yet, simply for that it meets the needs of many users who don’t have such demanding applications as Photoshop on their system. If they do, then they will likely have to remain happy with nothing more than PS7…which is a pretty nice compromise.

Do I like everything about Photoshop CS? Nope. I have found it to be significantly slower than PS7, regardless of what efforts I take to speed it up. The answer may be in my system, as it may be that a Dual 550Mhz P3 configuration still just doesn’t have what it takes to really run PSCS properly. That surprises me though, given that I’d have expected PS7 and PSCS to be similar enough that any performance degradation for PS CS would be less than I’ve observed. Oh well, I’ll live with that for now. When I want to work more quickly I’ll just use PS7. When I want the features of PS CS, I’ll go there.

And, when I want to be able to recover from a crash of Photoshop by recovering the temporary file, then I’ll curse Photoshop as much as always. I fully agree with you on that concern…professional or not, I don’t think an application that is geared toward professional use should be without a way to recover a working file. Sure, you can get in a habit of frequent saves, but when only a few minutes worth of work can be quite a bit of change, just how often must one save the work in progress? Until Adobe provides a solution to this problem, the only answer is to establish a discipline of saving routinelly.

Regards,

Daryl
SM
Stuart_McCoy
Jan 25, 2004
Here’s Chris Cox’s answer to this questionby the way (original thread here <http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx?13@@.2cced913/9>):

Chris Cox – 04:53pm Jan 16, 2004 Pacific (#9 of 10)

It would have meant several months additional work to make it compatible, and many features would have to be disabled (large file support, unicode support). And that would have more than doubled the testing necessary.

No, we had good reason to abandon Win9X.
P
Phosphor
Jan 25, 2004
Daryl…

It’s thoughtful posts like yours that are a joy to read, because they’re a good way for this Die-Hard Maccer to become ever more conversant in the ways of Windows. I can find many parallels, philosophically and on a practicable level, between the upgrade tribulations of both Windows and Mac OS users. I was reluctant for many reasons, some real and some imagined to upgrade from classic Mac OS (which I’ve had configured to run flawlessly with everything I’ve thrown at it) to Mac OS X. I jumped ship on Xmas day and I have to say, except for a few very minor problems that I’ve been able to work through, upgrading to Apple’s latest and greatest OS has been great for all the new benefits it provides, and for all the problems that are, finally, fully and completely in the past.

Cheers to you, JazzDiver!
VV
Voxo_Voxo
Jan 25, 2004
Yes, Stuart, that was the thread I answered in my topic. I don’t like that attitude. In that case it will seem to be correct if Chris would say "Yes, lets start making software only for Mac, because making it also for Windows would have more than doubled the testing necessary"
Understand me? Hope you do.
Daryl, finally ONE good post came from you. Thanks. I think this is phorum all about and should even group requests for new functionality to Adobe team. You are absolutely right. Anyway, we should probably wait for a new version Windows that will definitely solve the problem with XP (maybe ;))
DM
dave_milbut
Jan 25, 2004
And fact, that Microsoft replaced BSOD in many cases by small screen saying about error with sending message to Microsoft nothing changes about stability of the system itself.

That’s exactly right. That is process isolation in effect. When a buggy APPLICATION (not the os) crashes, it no longer takes the whole system with it and all your work. It’s isolated to bring down the session it’s in and nothing else.

Unhappily WinXP had 63000 bugs at start, which win98SE didn’t have.

You are full of… hot air and I am LMFAO at you.
RL
Robert_Levine
Jan 25, 2004
You are full of… hot air and I am LMFAO at you.

Perhaps he could send a bit of that hot air New Jersey’s way. It’s freezing here.

Bob
VV
Voxo_Voxo
Jan 25, 2004
Dave, that process isolation in XP does not work in situation with bad drivers, errors on disks, memory stucks… so again half of truth…
…. and on the other hand when your Photoshop session crashes in that "process isolation" it’s simply the same whether you have to restart Photoshop or the whole system – your work has gone… πŸ™‚
VV
Voxo_Voxo
Jan 25, 2004
hehe, here in Slovakia is freezing too… and I’m only trying to understand what makes you believe that Photoshop CS and Windoze XP are the cooolest things ever… maybe that’s why is freeezing now… πŸ˜‰
BTW say hi to New Jersey.. I was there 11 years ago…
DP
Daryl_Pritchard
Jan 25, 2004
Phosphor,

Thanks for the compliments…darn, I nearly thought you were about to say you’d made a jump from the Mac/OS9 to PC/WinXP! Ha!

Voxo,

Firstly, seeing that you are in Slovakia, I must say you’ve got quite a good command of your written English. I’ve seen occasions in this forum where simple cultural differences or confused grammar tended to unknowingly tilt a discussion toward being more of a debate than was ever necessary.

But, as I reread your posts, I guess I have become a little confused in some of what you’ve expressed. So, just with regard to your last comment to me previously, what is the problem with Windows XP that you’re hopeful the next version of Windows will fix? Are you referring to the AC97 issue? An earlier post referred to Windows XP’s large memory consumption relative to Win98, which is certainly true. But, you also made a comment about "enormous swapping (especially in 8.0)", which I think is a comment more about Photoshop CS (8.0) than about Windows XP. That is, from what I understand, more a characteristic of Photoshop CS itself than of Windows XP.

For a moment there, your first comment to me had me thinking "What? I’ve only made ONE good post in this forum? Surely I’ve done better than that." Ha! πŸ™‚ I know what you meant though. Thanks.

Daryl
VV
Voxo_Voxo
Jan 25, 2004
Daryl,
haha :D… Yeah, I also stopped on that when I wrote down that sentence…you know, my English is NOT 100% good and I need to apologize for some quite misunderstandings… You are right again…
Yes, Photoshop 8.0 on WinXP has strange swapping algorithm comparing to Photoshop 7.0 on Win98SE, because Photoshop 8.0 doesn’t run on Win98SE. So this is all I wanted to say πŸ˜‰
DP
Daryl_Pritchard
Jan 25, 2004
Voxo,

Well, we’ll not even discuss how bad my use of any language but English would be. I know enough Spanish to perhaps get into trouble, but not enough to get out.

I understood you well enough. πŸ™‚

Time to get away for a while…have a good day.

Daryl
L
LenHewitt
Jan 25, 2004
Voxo,

If this is democratic phorum, <<

Who the hell told you it was ‘democratic’?

It is OWNED and PAID FOR by Adobe. ANY post can be removed/moved/set to Read only at any time, and any user can be put on the Moderated list so their posts have to be OK’d by a moderator, or even have their IP address blocked. ‘Democracy’ doesn’t come into it. It’s nearer to ‘benevolent dictatorship’ than it is to democracy…..
RH
r_harvey
Jan 25, 2004
But, of course, if a moderator used too sharp of a sword, or Adobe declared too many thumbs-down, nobody would want to come here to learn or teach or play.

democracy…..

Three dots.
L
LenHewitt
Jan 26, 2004
R_H,

Thus the ‘benevolent’…..
PC
Pierre_Courtejoie
Jan 26, 2004
Voxo voxo, Maybe XP or 2K had 60.000+ bugs, but that list included typos and cosmetic problems. If one was to list all the bugs of 9x, I’m wondering how many there would be…I think that an huge percentage of the users here are using 2K/XP without any problem.

If NT/2K/XP was so terrible, why all the companies are using them and not 9x?

But I do understand your point… XP has some terrible stock settings, the ugly blue bars, the frame around the apps that take 10% of the interface… but you’ll be used to change them in less than 5minutes:

Right-click on the desktop, select Properties, switch the Theme to "classic mode".

Go to the Appearance tab, change the color scheme to "classic" too, so you’ve got a neutral grey one; click on effects, and uncheck the "use transition" "show shadows unde menus" and "show windows content while dragging"…

Right-click the taskbar, Change the start menu to classic, allow fast launch, and unlock the taskbar.

Now, open a folder, go to Tools>Folder Options>View and uncheck the "hide extensions for known file types" (IMHO one of the biggest dangers of the stock windows settings)
and you’ve got an useable system… after you’ve removed the shadow under the mouse and switched the desktop colour to a neutral grey…
VV
Voxo_Voxo
Jan 26, 2004
Pierre, I’ll tell you why all the companies use NT. Because of its native NT (network) character. Many companies (where also I work – about 4000 users) has huge LANs and configuring network for users is very easy and centrally controllable. But AT HOME on single PC is networking only luxury, sometimes totaly useless thing, because like I have – only one DSL modem directly connected thru firewall and NO LAN. Also NTFS file system was made to improve your security on LAN, using user-controllable privileges on files. FAT doesn’t need it, so its more simple. And as I wrote before many times, it’s not only the look of WinXP I don’t like. There are minimally 20 things that are comparable to Win98SE and worse on WinXP.
DM
dave_milbut
Jan 26, 2004
rolling eyes. what ever. stick with 98 voxo.

[please do not feed the troll!]
I
ID._Awe
Jan 26, 2004
Voxo: The squeaky wheel theory will not work in this instance.
O
Ol__Whozit
Jan 26, 2004
Did Phos have anything to do with the spelling of "phorum"???? Looks "phyne phrom here!"
P
Phosphor
Jan 26, 2004
It only required the awesome, omnipotent presence of my name in the thread, O.W., and Voxo was inexorably compelled to spell it that way.
SB
Scott_Byer
Jan 26, 2004
I, for one, find threads like these immensely amusing.

The number of things wrong with Voxo_Voxo’s claims, well, gives me the giggles.

It’s 2004 for gosh sakes, don’t you think we can put a memory-unprotected, virus-loving, unstable, non-Unicode, 2GB file size limited, RAM limited, network intolerant operating system to rest?

-Scott

(P.S., my favorite UI scheme is XP Silver. Nice and color neutral.)
DC
Dan_Crescent
Jan 26, 2004

P.S., my favorite UI scheme is XP Silver. Nice and color neutral.

Yes, same here. Now who knows how to get the green Start button to go silver also?
DM
dave_milbut
Jan 26, 2004
I like the classic ui. Maybe it’s time to move on? πŸ™‚
RL
Robert_Levine
Jan 26, 2004
(P.S., my favorite UI scheme is XP Silver. Nice and color neutral.)

Bingo! That’s exactly what mine is set to.

Bob
RL
Robert_Levine
Jan 26, 2004
Yes, same here. Now who knows how to get the green Start button to go silver also?

It does kinda stick out like a sore thumb.

Bob
SM
Stuart_McCoy
Jan 26, 2004
I’ve got mine set to classic. Just as color neutral as Luna Silver, maybe even more so. I don’t use Luna because I have my taskbar set to double height (running TrueLaunchBar <http://www.truelaunchbar.com> and at 1600×1200) and the Luna graphics stretched awkwardly. I also got rid of the start button and replaced it within TLB with another little app from the same programmer called presstart. My current taskbar and desktop look likes this <http://www.meltingcrayons.com/forum_images/desktop.jpg>.
H
Ho
Jan 26, 2004
Who the hell told you it was ‘democratic’? …’Democracy’ doesn’t come into it. It’s nearer to ‘benevolent dictatorship’ than it is to democracy…..

I don’t know about that, Len… sometimes benevolent doesn’t come into it either. At times recent, it’s been more like a "little tin god" theocracy.
DM
dave_milbut
Jan 27, 2004
All bow… πŸ™‚
TM
Thomas_Madsen
Jan 27, 2004

[Silver Theme]

Bingo! That’s exactly what mine is set to.

Ditto.


Regards
Madsen.
J
johnkissane3
Jan 27, 2004
Stuart, you dropped the ball in your display, probably along the left field foul line. Boston Red Sox. Wow. Babe Ruth would have been better.

Regards
VV
Voxo_Voxo
Jan 27, 2004
yeah, it looks like all you have winXP OS just for the silver theme on it. What about "KDE default" scheme? You can’t have that? Oh, maybe you just use WinXP that will never have it. Try other better OS… πŸ˜‰
VV
Voxo_Voxo
Jan 27, 2004
Yes, I will stick with 98. Bye Photoshop CS, forgotten forever, I’ll never miss you… πŸ˜€ Oh by the way, it really seemed that CS mean Czech & Slovak, but I was completely wrong. Photoshop and other Adobe products are missing any language localizations…
If you happy with "catching my words" try to translate this and you’ll be kings! πŸ˜€ "StrΓ¨ prst skrz krk a budeš šastnΓ½… ;)"
DM
dave_milbut
Jan 27, 2004
forgotten forever, I’ll never miss you…

probably because you never paid for it…
VV
Voxo_Voxo
Jan 27, 2004
of course not, will you pay for product if you can’t use it? … :-/
DM
dave_milbut
Jan 27, 2004
arrgh.
I
ID._Awe
Jan 27, 2004
Voxo Voxo: We tried to answer your question, too bad you still feel Like ‘putting your finger in your mouth’ for some strange reason (maybe to make you gag or suck on?)
M
MarkATS
Jan 27, 2004
of course not, will you pay for product if you can’t use it? …
RB
Robert_Barnett
Jan 27, 2004
Scott, no we can’t. We have to keep doing everything we can to support these old pieces of cr**. It doesn’t matter that these OSes were cr** from the day of release, we have to make everyone that works hard to keep their systems and OSes updated pay for all of those that want to stay in the dark ages. We have to pay with our blood for this. Now buckup and smile while the leaches collect their payment… Oh yah, now that’s the stuff!

Robert
VV
Voxo_Voxo
Jan 27, 2004
Maybe in 2010 you will also support current OSes like piece of cr**. Because they are already piece of cr** now. So in this case, discussion have to be closed and we will meet after 6 years and share our experiences…
Thank you all.
howgh
DM
dave_milbut
Jan 28, 2004
Whew! Dudes! For the past 2 days I’ve been using the new XP interface with the silver theme… HOW CAN THAT NOT MAKE YOU INSANE?!!

Back to classic view, high performance mode, animation thingys off for me, thank you very much!

Peace
(Do not feed the troll!)

dave
Y
YrbkMgr
Jan 28, 2004
Peace (Do not feed the troll!)

<smiling in satisfaction>
V
viol8ion
Jan 28, 2004
Back to classic view, high performance mode, animation thingys off for me, thank you very much!

Anything but the classic theme is too kindergartenish for my tastes. If I wanted Playskool interface, I would have bought a Mac.

<GD&R>
DM
dave_milbut
Jan 28, 2004
it was just all to distracting. first thing I noticed was the desktop real estate chewed up by the massive frames around every window.
DP
Daryl_Pritchard
Jan 28, 2004
Dave,

I too favor the classic interface by far, but I do stick with the Luna skinning of the toolbar, as I like the look in limited doses. That whole redesign of the Start menu however seems much less friendly to use in my opinion, although the intent was for it to be friendlier. I wonder if those who start with WinXP as their O/S and have never experienced the classic interface would, after perhaps a year of use, argue in favor of Luna over classic? In other words, maybe it’s just a matter of familiarity. My folks just bought a new PC after their older Win98 system went belly-up, and they were immediately lost with the Luna interface. With my telling them how to switch back to classic, they were reasonably comfortable again although still having to learn how XP differs from 98.

Daryl
E
E._Segen
Jan 28, 2004
Voxo Voxo,

"Sorry, I must be wrong… "

I would agree with you on that…

"Maybe in 2010 you will also support current OSes like piece of cr**. Because they are already piece of cr** now. So in this case, discussion have to be closed and we will meet after 6 years and share our experiences…
Thank you all.
howgh "

Yes, in six years we will all be using faster systems with gigs of faster cheaper ram where as you will aparently still be using the system you have today running windows 98 and complaning about why no major software makers release new software that will run on it.

That or you’ll be complaning about how the manufactuer of your new system didn’t make windows 98 drivers that would allow you to use 98 on it.

Even, YOU must realize that some day you are going to need to use something newer than Windows 98 at some point in time if you plan to use even remotely current software and hardware.
PC
Pierre_Courtejoie
Jan 28, 2004
dave, even in classic mode it is possible to go to the place where tou can change the ui settings, and click on the side of the window. set the bordre space to zero, and you win 1 or two pixels of useable real estate… (yes, I did it, along with reducing the title bar’s sizes, including the font…)
E
E._Segen
Jan 28, 2004
Voxo Voxo,

"Sorry, I must be wrong… "

I would agree with you on that…

"Maybe in 2010 you will also support current OSes like piece of cr**. Because they are already piece of cr** now. So in this case, discussion have to be closed and we will meet after 6 years and share our experiences…
Thank you all.
howgh "

Yes, in six years we will all be using faster systems with gigs of faster cheaper ram where as you will aparently still be using the system you have today running windows 98 and complaning about why no major software makers release new software that will run on it.

That or you’ll be complaning about how the manufactuer of your new system didn’t make windows 98 drivers that would allow you to use 98 on it.

Even, YOU must realize that some day you are going to need to use something newer than Windows 98 at some point in time if you plan to use even remotely current software and hardware.

BWT, If we are voting, I cast my ballot for XP over 98… So how many people do we have in this thread that think 98 is the best OS?

Just a little perspective on the popular vote you were looking for a few posts back. πŸ™‚
RH
r_harvey
Jan 28, 2004
So how many people do we have in this thread that think 98 is the best OS?

Probably nobody who’s being honest with themselves.

Many people continue to use it because it’s paid for, it’s installed and doing all they need, and they’ll move on when they get their next computer–the last of the business Y2K computers will probably be retired sometime this year.

MS knows that a lot of old machines are still in service, and they know that Win98 is still on them, and that when it’s time to buy a new machine with a new OS, some people will take the time to consider other options than Windows–which is why they extended the life of Win98 for another year and a half. They believe that Longhorn will change the world, and everybody would be stupid to try anything else–so don’t give them that window of opportunity.
RB
Robert_Barnett
Jan 28, 2004
Sorry I have to disagree. While I think Windows XP interface leaves a lot to love, the new one in Office 2003 is… well sucky. Mac on the other hand has a gorgeous interface.

That said I think the interface prior to XP is just old and nasty. I guess it is a personal thing.

Robert
RH
r_harvey
Jan 28, 2004
I guess it is a personal thing.

I want the least interface necessary to help me tell one window from another and to hold menus and navigation aids. An old, plain, gray and white interface is fine for me. If I’m writing or drawing, I don’t want distracting eye-candy.
Y
YrbkMgr
Jan 28, 2004
But you have to hand it to XP for the stability issues over 98. While I can’t remember the last time I got a BSOD in 98, the elegance of XP’s implementation of "conflict management" is quite nice.

I just wish there was a fix for that stupid search function in XP. It doesn’t work the same as in older versions and since I rely on Explorer/Search heavily, it makes life, well, less than pleasant <grin>.

Peace,
Tony
VV
Voxo_Voxo
Jan 28, 2004
Again I must contribute to closed forum by myself… well… again: XP has so many visible bugs, that if I can count it on fingers of two hands, it will be still not enough. I never did say that Win2k or Win98SE was bad OSes, but XP is extremely childish and buggy. Search function, drivers’ installation stupidity, look, swap algorithms, memory wasting, activating, getting viruses from windowsupdate.com, not correctly installed aspi, no java vm support, neverending servicepacks history, faulty operations in some programs causing "sending mails to M$", impossibility to correct turn off computer, no direct file registry backup, etc, etc are small but strong annoyances…
BTW… look at the www.annoyances.org and count all the annoyances you find at XP, then 2k, then 98… you will be maybe little amazed πŸ˜‰
E
E._Segen
Jan 28, 2004
Robert,

I think the the discussion is more over Voxo trying to sell us on the virtues of Windows 98 over XP and most of us are saying that XP wins almost hands down on all fronts (Over anything Windows 9x) on any suitably up to date hardware.

I don’t think anyone else around here is trying to turn this into a Mac OS X (another platform that can run Photoshop CS) vs. Windows XP debate. πŸ™‚
VV
Voxo_Voxo
Jan 28, 2004
whatever, you may now start the debate over MacOS and WindowsOS πŸ˜‰
P
Phosphor
Jan 28, 2004
I could steer it that way, E.S., if you ask me nicely!
πŸ˜‰
PC
Pierre_Courtejoie
Jan 28, 2004
Phosphor, My troll is better than yours πŸ˜€
P
Phosphor
Jan 28, 2004
Sorry, could you please repeat that?

I was laughing too loud at all the MyDoom stories and didn’t hear you.
I
ID._Awe
Jan 28, 2004
Well I’m glad that I went from WIN 3.1 to NT 3.5 and never looked back.

While WIN2K may have a ‘nasty’ interface compared to XP in some peoples minds, if you ever installed NT 3.5, then you can use the word ‘nasty’.

I can’t say how much I’ve enjoyed working with 95(a,b,c), 98(1 & 2) and ME on other people’s machines. Cha-ching, cha-ching.
VV
Voxo_Voxo
Jan 28, 2004
Have you ever worked with Longhorn alpha? I think no, because of your uncalled-for comments…
PC
Philo_Calhoun
Jan 28, 2004
My abacus never crashed. If only newer OS were so stable.
RL
Robert_Levine
Jan 28, 2004
You guys are lucky it’s the middle of the night in the U.K. Len’s gonna wake up to this and it’s off to the lounge with all of you. <g>

Bob
P
Phosphor
Jan 28, 2004
As it is Len’s wont to do.

The whole premise of Voxo’s topic was a steaming load from the git-go, anyway.
RH
r_harvey
Jan 28, 2004
Activation! Copying Currency! Activation! Copying Currency! Activation! Copying Currency! Activation! Copying Currency! Activation! Copying Currency!

There, that oughta do it.
Y
YrbkMgr
Jan 28, 2004
Trouble maker.
P
Phosphor
Jan 28, 2004
Heh.
I
ID._Awe
Jan 28, 2004
Voxo Voxo, re: "Have you ever worked with Longhorn alpha? I think no, because of your uncalled-for comments… "

Have you? I don’t think so! So I think you should find a bridge to scurry under.

Also, my comments are based on an extensive experience over the last 14 years. I’m sure you are not even that old.

Now that should get Len’s attention, even I’m getting as nasty as a 3.5 interface.
RH
r_harvey
Jan 29, 2004
Unless you’re a software developer doing device drivers, or writing a book about it, why would anyone want to alpha-test an operating system? The last time I tried an OS beta was Windows 95, for about a year, working on a production machine. I didn’t get a lot of work done, reporting bugs and installing new OS versions every few days. Any bragging rights earned are not worth the waste of time.

Of course, I wasn’t using it to play games, and there wasn’t much of an Internet at that time. Maybe if you’re just playing with it, it’d be fun. So, then, I guess… have fun!
SS
Stephanie_Schaefer
Jan 29, 2004
Given that Photoshop no longer supports any Win9x operating systems, and that’s not going to change, this whole discussion seems a bit moot.

FWIW – XP is my first choice in OSes, it’s stable and provides me with a far better user experience than earlier Windows versions. I’ve also found it requires less maintenance than OSX, though I like and regularly use that one as well.

Voxo,

If you want to discuss the issues with CS that you refer to in your opening post, please put them in a new thread so they can be discussed seperately from this Win9x vs XP thread.
I
ID._Awe
Jan 29, 2004
Yikes!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Me skidaddle.
DM
dave_milbut
Jan 29, 2004
FWIW – XP is my first choice in OSes,

Yes, of course. But the real question is… classic or new and themed? πŸ™‚
SM
Stuart_McCoy
Jan 29, 2004
<sarcasm>What are you guys talking about?!? Windows, MacOS and Linux all pale in comparison to my Commodore PET. I got my cassette deck spinning like mad and I’m filling up millions of 5 1/4" floppies but it’s all good. I don’t need a stupid GUI, I design using the force. I will my computer to do my bidding and the Commodore PET works far better than Windows, especially XP, MacOS X and Linux. </sarcasm>

Never again shall my <sarcasm> tags dangle in the breeze πŸ˜‰
DM
dave_milbut
Jan 29, 2004
Commodore PET.

luddite! get a REAL system, like my vic 20!

Never again shall my <sarcasm> tags dangle in the breeze

heh!
SM
Stuart_McCoy
Jan 29, 2004
VIC 20’s are for pansies. Get a real machine, not that underpowered paperweight. The Apple II running my webserver will run circles around that pile of crap πŸ˜›
VV
Voxo_Voxo
Jan 29, 2004
I just wanted to refer to user interface in Longhorn… I played with it a little while, but most of you will probably get in extasy from the look of interface… I think. That’s all you are fascinating of and I can say it’s just simple-minded.
But over all, my thread was about something completely different. Fact, that we discuss OSes here is just a job of contributors prefering winXP. Sorry.
WK
William Kazak
Feb 11, 2004
Adobe is not going to lose anybody. Photoshop is the best program there is-so get used to it and just deal with it the best you can and try to learn it.
I use Win2000 and I can tell you to buy it if you are using Win98 (which crashes all of the time). I have no problems with Win2000 except there is no picture viewer built into the OS.Therefore, Photoshop is also picture viewer.
WK
William Kazak
Feb 11, 2004
Sure, go ahead. You can also think the world is flat and the Bill Clinton didn’t have sex with that woman…

It was Bill Clinton’s clone…not the real Bill Clinton.

Must-have mockup pack for every graphic designer πŸ”₯πŸ”₯πŸ”₯

Easy-to-use drag-n-drop Photoshop scene creator with more than 2800 items.

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