BEST PRINTER

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Posted By
nvslater
Jan 26, 2004
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946
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What are the advantages and drawbacks of lazer print to ink jet. Setting aside damage by sun and water.

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TE
Tin Ear
Jan 27, 2004
"nvslater" wrote in message
What are the advantages and drawbacks of lazer print to ink jet. Setting
aside damage by sun and water.

I’m presuming you’re talking about color printing. Mainly cost. Laser is more expensive up front, but your cost per print is less. Inkjet printers are cheaper up front and cheaper for the cartridge, but more expensive per print. You can get good color from an inkjet, but the color I’ve seen from a high end laser in terrific! The cost, however, for one of these is way high for my budget. Maintenance on a color laser can be high too: I worked for a company that had a real nice Tektronix (sp?). About once a year they had a major "tune-up" performed. The company had a service contract, so I’m not sure what got replaced, but you could see the difference.

A lot of people compromise: they use a high quality inkjet for proofs and then farm out the final printing. It depends what I’m doing, but I’ve been know to take work to Kinko’s for final printing. I’m sure there are other options as well, but this has worked for me.

You’re bound to start a debate whenever asking for the "best" of anything. Read the suggestions, make your choice, don’t look back, but let everyone know how you made out! Oh yeah, and remember, whatever you buy, it’ll be superceded eighteen months after you buy it.
Y
YrbkMgr
Jan 27, 2004
Ho "Lazer printing, Ink Jet printing." 1/22/04 6:29pm </cgi-bin/webx?14/0>

And it’s Laser, fyi.
N
nvslater
Jan 27, 2004
what is that supposed to mean
DM
dave_milbut
Jan 27, 2004
it means it’s spelled with an "S" not a "Z". 🙂
RH
r_harvey
Jan 27, 2004
It’s Liza with a Z, and laser with an S.

My only experience with color laser was that it looked relatively coarse and shiny–even on matte paper. Color inkjets are now cheap and fast, with nearly perfect output–and not very long-lived. You could throw away a half-dozen before reaching the cost of a laser.

I presume there are much better color laser printers than what I tried.
PT
Paul_Tipton
Jan 27, 2004
I very badly need to hear about this cheap and fast inkjet. My Epson C82 is costing me a fortune in cartridges and not a whole lot of volume to show for it. Now being sarcastic, just gettin broke.
PT
Paul_Tipton
Jan 27, 2004
I very badly need to hear about this cheap and fast inkjet. My Epson C82 is costing me a fortune in cartridges and not a whole lot of volume to show for it. Not being sarcastic, just gettin broke.
PT
Paul_Tipton
Jan 27, 2004
Sorry about the double post
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nvslater
Jan 27, 2004
So I guess no one know anything………about lazer printers. Even if you spell it with a s or a t or a i
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LenHewitt
Jan 27, 2004
LASER

L_ight
A_mplification (by the)
S_timulated
E_mmision (of)
R_adiation

Colour laser printers have the following advantages:

Multiple Copy speed – once the file is imaged, speeds of up to 10 or 20 ppm can be achieved
Media costs – Laser paper tends to be lest costly than photo-quality inkjet paper
Per-print costs lower than inkjet technology

Colour laser printers have the following disadvantages:

High initial costs
Quality tends to be lower than inkjet
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nvslater
Jan 27, 2004
Thank You Len, for your no non-sense reply. Not to mention knowledgeable! Quality first for me. I have been told that Laser prints maintain their color longer and are not suspetable to sun or water damage, is that true? And would that translate to better quality in the long run? If not, no Laser printer for me.
Thank you again for your previous reply.
PC
Philo_Calhoun
Jan 27, 2004
Actually a pigmented inkjet print will hold its colour longer.
BL
Bill_Lamp
Jan 27, 2004
nvslater,

Compared to the print life from the office HP 1220C, a B&W laser printer does offer a longer life. I have not had the chance to try a color laser. (A 1220C printed aerial photograph won’t last a day in a pick up truck without turning purple.)

Compared to Epson… I have a print at the office that I made with an Epson 1270 on Epson Heavy Weight Matte paper, behind glass, that has been up for several years and looks as good as the day I put it up. It gets both reflected sunlight and florescent lighting.

1270 prints on Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper are water resistant. I took a test print, submerged it in water for an hour, gently rubbed it with my fingers, blot dried it off, and except for water marks it survived undamaged. I was interested in knowing about water resistance too. The Heavy Weight Matte paper color held up but the paper surface "slicked" down from the blot drying.

I haven’t run those tests with the Epson 2200 and it hasn’t been out long enough for a first hand longevity report, but the published figures show it should produce prints with at least the same real life display time, and probably a lot longer.

Bill
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LenHewitt
Jan 27, 2004
NVS,

Laser prints maintain their color longer and are not suspetable to sun or
water damage, is that true? <<

Toner does tend to be more light stable than dye and is not water-soluble, but the same is true for inkjets that use pigments rather than dyes
N
nvslater
Jan 27, 2004
Oh wow. I sure am glad to hear that. I didn’t want to but another printer anyway. Now all I have to is see if my HP OfficeJet G85 will use pigment.
SF
Scott_Falkner
Jan 27, 2004
Inkjet printers aren’t expensive, but they are cheap. The companies that make them don’t want to sell pritners, they want to sell ink and paper. Look at the cost of 1,000 prints and laser starts to get very, very atttractive.
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nvslater
Jan 27, 2004
To Scott, I am looking for quality and I already have an hp officejet g85. To Len, I just called HP , they said HP ink is pigmented, is that what you were referring to when you said pigment over dye?
RB
Robert_Barnett
Jan 27, 2004
Color Laser toner is expensive as is the drum and other bits that you have to replace quite often. Laser Printers do pattern dithering which makes it very hard to pass them off a real photographs. It is harder to get glossy paper that is laser printer safe because of the heat involved in fussing the toner to the paper.

Inkjets are cheaper to buy, the ink is cheaper, you have a wider choice of paper, you get true photographic looking prints.

Laser prints are much more fade proof and are much more water proof, but that isn’t a good enough reason in my opinion to spend all of the money on a color laser printer, the toner needed, etc.

Robert
RB
Robert_Barnett
Jan 27, 2004
Len, you think $600 to replace the toner and other bits for a color laser printer is cheaper? The cost per page maybe cheaper since you get more prints for each replacement cycle, but I don’t know of many people that have $600 to fork out to replace the toner and stuff. This coming from someone that owns and uses an HP Color Laser 4500. Nice printer, slow printing, takes forever to warm up. But it is the replacement toner and stuff that kills any advantages. I would rather spend $50 on ink cartridges than $600 on toner. Don’t even ask about the drum and imager when it needs replacing, you can get to over a $1000 to replace that with the toner.

Robert
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CliffordS
Jan 27, 2004
The answer to the "BEST" is determined by ytour needs. If job one is quality, and you limit your size to 8×10, the Kodak 8500 is my top choice.
Laser does have the longest print life. I use a QMS laser that takes 13×19 and it is a joy. A good laser will yeld 85-90% photo quality. I ran a custom lab for many years. My "BEST" digital printer is the Kodak 8500. I haven’t found anthink better.
CliffordS


CliffordS
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LenHewitt
Jan 28, 2004
Robert,

you think $600 to replace the toner and other bits for a color laser
printer is cheaper? <<

Never said it was…..

The cost per page maybe cheaper <<

And that was ALL I said about const other than initial purchase price.

But certainly, high cost of replacement toner cartridges could be added to the disadvantages lists…
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LenHewitt
Jan 28, 2004
NVS,

If you want some info on ink technologies, suggest you start at:

http://www.epson.co.uk/options/consum/lfast.htm
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nvslater
Jan 28, 2004
Toner does tend to be more light stable than dye and is not water-soluble, but the same is true for inkjets that use pigments rather than dyes

HP said their ink was pigmented. They had no info on dyes. I guess the real question, is do you think I should replace the HP OfficeJet G85? I will give your opion great consideration. Thank You for talking to me.
L
LenHewitt
Jan 28, 2004
NVS,

I don’t know that particular printer, but from its name, I would suspect it is a general purpose printer rather than a Photo printer.

That means it will give better results with text, but poorer results with images than would a proper Photo printer.

Personally, I would look at the Epson range of Photo printers….
Y
YrbkMgr
Jan 28, 2004
In addition to agreeing with Len’s comments, while there are some folks whom I respect who love their HP’s, IMHO, HP doesn’t allow for as much control as the epson line, when it comes to the printer driver interface. Epson has more robust options, and in general, at least the way I think about it, HP makes a good business printer, but Epson makes among the best photo printers.

There also seems to be much more work done with color issues on Epson.

Just my opinion though.

Peace,
Tony
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nvslater
Jan 29, 2004
I just put a few drops of water on a picture. Picture was instantly destroyed. Will the Eptson offer better results?
QP
Q_Photo
Jan 29, 2004
May I ask why you want to put water on a photograph?
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nvslater
Jan 29, 2004
It was A test
RW
Rene_Walling
Jan 29, 2004
May I ask why you want to put water on a photograph?

Because when a print will be displayed outside and it rains, there will be water on it wether you want it or not so you may as well make sure it will survive it beforehand to avoid looking real bad.
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nvslater
Jan 29, 2004
The question is, will epson printers respond the same
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LenHewitt
Jan 29, 2004
NVS,

If you are going to put print-outs in an environment where water (or humidity) damage is a reasonable possibility, then you should laminate the print. Even if the colour technology used is not water-soluble, the paper will still distort as it dries.

For best quality output use a lab service to obtain Frontier prints (and it usually works out cheaper than printing them yourself!)
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nvslater
Jan 29, 2004
To Plilo Calhoun, who says;
Actually a pigmented inkjet print will hold its colour longer.

HP says I am using pigmented ink in my OfficeJet G85, is that the same as you are talking about?
N
nvslater
Jan 29, 2004
Bill Lamp wrights;
1270 prints on Epson Premium Glossy Photo Paper are water resistant. I took a test print, submerged it in water for an hour, gently rubbed it with my fingers, blot dried it off, and except for water marks it survived undamaged. I was interested in knowing about water resistance too. The Heavy Weight Matte paper color held up but the paper surface "slicked" down from the blot drying.
LenHewlett wrights;
If you are going to put print-outs in an environment where water (or humidity) damage is a reasonable possibility, then you should laminate the print. Does this mean that Epson prints are longer lasting and more water resistant, than my HP OfficeJet G85 with pigmented ink? And is pigmented ink the same as pigmented dye?
BO
Burton_Ogden
Jan 29, 2004
NVS,

I agree with Len’s suggestion to laminate prints that might be exposed to water. Even indoors, stuff happens, and someone sneezes or opens a soft drink that had been shaken, or whatever, and droplets of liquid get on the print.

Back in 1997 I got one of the Epson Stylus Photo printers (it was the first, so it didn’t need a model number) and even then it did a credible job of printing something that looked very much like a photo print. But its dye-based inks were water soluble and subject to fading from sunlight exposure as well. Some of my early prints faded badly within a few months of living-room display.

Somehow a juicy thumbprint got on on one of my prints and I tried to remove it. I discovered there was no way to remove a fingerprint without leaving a visible blemish.

Another print had a piece of lint that must have gotten stuck to it while the ink was still moist. I tried blowing it off, but that didn’t work. I couldn’t snag it with tweezers. I decided to lift the lint with a piece of low-tack clear tape, but even the low-tack tape lifted some of the ink, leaving a noticeable blemish. It did get the lint, but that was no consolation because the print was ruined. It became obvious that my prints were vulnerable to all kinds of things.

That’s when I decided to routinely laminate almost all of my inkjet prints. I bought a good laminator (it cost almost as much as the printer) and a bunch of laminating supplies. Lamination has a lot of advantages beyond waterproofing. I use ultraviolet inhibiting (UVI) laminating films to combat the fading problem. You can rub a fingerprint off of a laminate with a facial tissue or, if you need to, you can take the laminate to the kitchen sink and wash it with a bit of dishwashing detergent and wipe it sparkling clean with a paper towel. Little kids with fingers sticky with peanut butter and chocolate are no threat. And the laminate protects the print from scuffs and scratches.

Lamination is vital to my process of making tiled prints because that requires handling the tiles a lot and I can buff any stray mounting wax off of the laminated tiles. As a bit of serendipity, the mounting wax seals the cut edges of the laminates and the buffed mounting wax gives an attractive sheen to the assembled picture.

Lamination gives you ultimate waterproofing. You could toss a laminated print into your aquarium and leave it for months with no harm to the print. Unless you have piranha (grin).

— Burton —
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LenHewitt
Jan 29, 2004
NVS,

Does this mean that Epson prints are longer lasting and more water
resistant, than my HP OfficeJet G85 with pigmented ink? And is pigmented ink the same as pigmented dye?<<

I don’t know.

I’ve no experience of your printer. BUT print longevity is depends not only upon the ink but also on the media and storage conditions.

For example, look at these figures from Epson for their
Stylus Photo 875DC

The actual display life of photographs will vary in accordance with lighting conditions and exposure to atmospheric contaminants. Independent testing by Wilhelm Imaging Research, indicates that prints from the EPSON Stylus Photo 870, 875DC and 1270 printers have the following lightfastness ratings on EPSON papers when displayed under glass in normal indoor lighting conditions:

a.. Matte Paper-Heavyweight: 24-26 years
b.. Premium Glossy Photo Paper: 9-10 years
c.. Photo Paper: 6-7 years
The test conditions are reported more fully on the Wilhelm web site with new information regarding potential ozone contamination.

And for their

Lightfastness info for the Stylus Photo 830
The Stylus Photo 830 provides prints with in excess of 25 years lightfastness, enabling photographers to provide images with the ultimate in photo-reproduction quality, thanks to a combination of media and new inks.

Lightfastness varies by media type as follows:

a.. Premium Glossy Photo Paper: Over 10 years
b.. Premium Semigloss Photo Paper: Over 10 years
c.. ColorLife Photo Paper: Over 25 years
d.. Matte Paper Heavyweight: Over 20 years
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nvslater
Jan 29, 2004
OK gentlemen; I think I now have more info than I need(ha ha).Thank you everyone for your patience. Vernon Slater
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Buzzard
Jan 30, 2004
Hopefully you can see this post amoung the babble traffic. During the PMAI show, there was a printer test. As far a picture quality goes, inkjet won out in Photo realism. The Canon S900 was a top model in 2 catagories. I suspect this Feburary, they will have another digital "shoot out" which will show the best.
For speed, you cannot beat a laser printer. For quality and speed, you need about $70 for a Digital photo processor.

Popular Science likes the Hp photo printer for ease of use. Most of the Digital arts world either has a dyesub printer or an Epson pigment printer.

Me, I like the Canon S9000 for speed and quality. Cost per page is $.34 (wholesale price) $.54 if I buy the stuff at Best Buy.

Life of the print:
Canon–27years
Espon pigment archival ink–100 years
laser–15 years
Kodak archival Silver-Halide–>200 years

If you want more info, check out www.pmai.org

John Hart
Photographic Memory
www.photographic-memory.biz
"nvslater" wrote in message
What are the advantages and drawbacks of lazer print to ink jet. Setting
aside damage by sun and water.
RH
Rob_Hecker.
Jun 3, 2004
I’d like to know if anyone has been able to do a good comparison between the Canon i9900 and the Epson 2200–just as to image quality.
TD
Thomas_Durham
Jun 3, 2004
nvslater, My 2 cents, the epson should be a very good printer. Steve does a review at <http://www.steves-digicams.com/> He reviews many printers, with monaco EZ it should do the job. Epson color life paper is claimed to last 25 years. Im only a hobbist not a pro. Tom

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