Newbie confused about color profiles etc

"louise" wrote in message

Photoshop 7
Win XP Pro
Sony G520 CRT

I’m trying to work on photos taken with a Canon digital and create a finished file that I plan to bring to a professional photo lab for printing.

I don’t want to print on my (cheap) color printer, because I really want a fine quality print which my printer is not capable of.
The more I examine the options, the more confused I get:
My Sony monitor provides all kinds of color temperature options as well as an sRGB option where there are no color temperature adjustments. How should I set the monitor?

Then, I tried creating an icc profile using the wizard but now I can’t figure out how to load it.

More importantly, I see that there is an option in Photoshop Image/assign profile. Here there are many options, and the option that says "don’t color manage".

I’ve tried to read the online help but I don’t understand enough to have it be helpful.

Might someone be able to explain some of this to me and/or to point me to sites which would help someone who doesn’t understand it very well.

TIA

Louise

It is best that you start from the fundamentals. Get yourself a copy of ‘Real World Colour Management’ by Bruce Fraser et al. It covers the whole spectrum – from the principles to the detail. An excellent book – you won’t regret buying it, but give yourself the time to fully understand the concepts before delving into the detail.

—
John
Replace ‘nospam’ with ‘todnet’ when replying.

louise wrote:

Might someone be able to explain some of this to me and/or to point me to sites which would help someone who doesn’t understand it very well.

Hi Louise!

I wrote an article about that before, and Janee has articulated it and put it in this webpage:

http://www.myjanee.com/PSRL/PStips6.htm

Under the headline "Monitor Calibration". There are some basic facts there, and I hope it can give you an idea about the subject.

Mohamed Al-Dabbagh
Senior Graphic Designer

"louise" wrote in message

Photoshop 7
Win XP Pro
Sony G520 CRT

I’m trying to work on photos taken with a Canon digital and create a finished file that I plan to bring to a professional photo lab for printing.

I don’t want to print on my (cheap) color printer, because I really want a fine quality print which my printer is not capable of.
The more I examine the options, the more confused I get:
My Sony monitor provides all kinds of color temperature options as well as an sRGB option where there are no color temperature adjustments. How should I set the monitor?

Then, I tried creating an icc profile using the wizard but now I can’t figure out how to load it.

More importantly, I see that there is an option in Photoshop Image/assign profile. Here there are many options, and the option that says "don’t color manage".

I’ve tried to read the online help but I don’t understand enough to have it be helpful.

Might someone be able to explain some of this to me and/or to point me to sites which would help someone who doesn’t understand it very well.

TIA

Louise

I’ll second John’s suggestion to get the Bruce Fraser book. As a starting place, I suggest 5500K for your monitor. What you really need is the setting which best agrees with your prints.

If all you own is Adobe Gamma, then it should place the profile in the proper folder. Adobe Gamma Loader will apply this profile when you restart your computer.
The profile must reside in the folder(s) which contains all the rest of the profiles. Just search for icm and icc file types.
Loading a profile without restarting is rather easy. Double click on any unsed area of your desktop. Then select "properties". This tab allows you to change whatever you need. Select "settings". In the select pane, select the "advanced" tab. In the advanced tab, select "color management". This panel shows a list of color profiles to enable. Select the one you just created, and you are done.

There are several types of profiles. The Input profiles are suitable for input devices such as cameras. The Output profiles are suitable for output devices such as printers. If you are using a commercial printer, then you must obtain a profile for their printer. The remaining type is the ones, such as Adobe RGB, which are usefull for working spaces.

I suggest that you should always employ Adobe RGB as your working profile, the profile specific to your monitor as your monitor profile, and whatever profile your printer expects for it. The only use that I can see for "don’t color manage" is for the instance where you are creating images for the web. There is no color management in web browsers, and it is pointless to imbed color profiles in such files.

Jim

In article ,
says…

louise wrote:

Might someone be able to explain some of this to me and/or to point me to sites which would help someone who doesn’t understand it very well.

Hi Louise!

I wrote an article about that before, and Janee has articulated it and put it in this webpage:

http://www.myjanee.com/PSRL/PStips6.htm

Under the headline "Monitor Calibration". There are some basic facts there, and I hope it can give you an idea about the subject.
Mohamed Al-Dabbagh
Senior Graphic Designer

Thanks – there’s a world of information there which I will be digesting for a while.

How do I set the color temperature of the monitor itself – it goes from 5000 to 11000. At the moment it seems most sensible to me to put it at the mid-point, 800. Does this sound right?

Then how do I set the contrast and brightness on the monitor?

It seems to me that if the hardware (the monitor itself), is not set to some kind of neutral place, I couldn’t create a profile with Adobe Gamma that would be meaningful.

One more question – I create a profile with Adobe Gamma (which I did attempt to do), and Adobe gamma saves it as an .icm profile. How and when do I load it?

And…since Adobe Gamma wizard has you set your monitor at 100% contrast to create the icm, what happens when you reset the contrast to a more reasonalble setting for average daily text work, say 50%?

Thanks again.

Louise

In article <43196ea7$>,
says…

"louise" wrote in message

Photoshop 7
Win XP Pro
Sony G520 CRT

I’m trying to work on photos taken with a Canon digital and create a finished file that I plan to bring to a professional photo lab for printing.

I don’t want to print on my (cheap) color printer, because I really want a fine quality print which my printer is not capable of.
The more I examine the options, the more confused I get:
My Sony monitor provides all kinds of color temperature options as well as an sRGB option where there are no color temperature adjustments. How should I set the monitor?

Then, I tried creating an icc profile using the wizard but now I can’t figure out how to load it.

More importantly, I see that there is an option in Photoshop Image/assign profile. Here there are many options, and the option that says "don’t color manage".

I’ve tried to read the online help but I don’t understand enough to have it be helpful.

Might someone be able to explain some of this to me and/or to point me to sites which would help someone who doesn’t understand it very well.

TIA

Louise

It is best that you start from the fundamentals. Get yourself a copy of ‘Real World Colour Management’ by Bruce Fraser et al. It covers the whole spectrum – from the principles to the detail. An excellent book – you won’t regret buying it, but give yourself the time to fully understand the concepts before delving into the detail.

—
John
Replace ‘nospam’ with ‘todnet’ when replying.

Thanks – will get the book.

"louise" wrote in message

Photoshop 7
Win XP Pro
Sony G520 CRT

I’m trying to work on photos taken with a Canon digital and create a finished file that I plan to bring to a professional photo lab for printing.

I don’t want to print on my (cheap) color printer, because I really want a fine quality print which my printer is not capable of.
The more I examine the options, the more confused I get:
My Sony monitor provides all kinds of color temperature options as well as an sRGB option where there are no color temperature adjustments. How should I set the monitor?

Then, I tried creating an icc profile using the wizard but now I can’t figure out how to load it.

More importantly, I see that there is an option in Photoshop Image/assign profile. Here there are many options, and the option that says "don’t color manage".

I’ve tried to read the online help but I don’t understand enough to have it be helpful.

Might someone be able to explain some of this to me and/or to point me to sites which would help someone who doesn’t understand it very well.

TIA

Louise

Hi there.

You have had some good replies.

From what I can gather most labs use sRGB as their Working Space, so it would probably be best to use sRGB as your Working Space. You should be able to get a Print Profile from them, which can be used in View > Proof to give you a closer idea what your pic will look like when printed.

I have put up a "Workflow" for less experienced members on our Camera Club Website. Please feel free to have a look at it. www.ayrphoto.co.uk go to the "Notices and Info" pages then to the article "How to print with Photoshop and Epson". You won’t need all of it, but it does explain the use of Profiles and Monitor Caibration.

I also think you might be pleasantly surprised at just how good your "Cheap" printer might actually print.

Best of luck,

Roy G

"Roy" wrote in message

"louise" wrote in message

Photoshop 7
Win XP Pro
Sony G520 CRT

Hi there.

You have had some good replies.

From what I can gather most labs use sRGB as their Working Space, so it would probably be best to use sRGB as your Working Space. You should be able to get a Print Profile from them, which can be used in View > Proof to give you a closer idea what your pic will look like when printed.
I have put up a "Workflow" for less experienced members on our Camera Club Website. Please feel free to have a look at it. www.ayrphoto.co.uk go to the "Notices and Info" pages then to the article "How to print with Photoshop and Epson". You won’t need all of it, but it does explain the use of Profiles and Monitor Caibration.

I also think you might be pleasantly surprised at just how good your "Cheap" printer might actually print.

Best of luck,

Roy G

Hi again.

Sorry. I am having problems reading my own writing. Too much coffee not enough beer, or should that be the other way round?

In the "Notices and Info" pages the article you need is actually called "How to Print for Accurate Colour"

Roy G

In article <yLoSe.2565$
guesthouse.co.uk says…

"Roy" wrote in message

"louise" wrote in message

Photoshop 7
Win XP Pro
Sony G520 CRT

Hi there.

You have had some good replies.

From what I can gather most labs use sRGB as their Working Space, so it would probably be best to use sRGB as your Working Space. You should be able to get a Print Profile from them, which can be used in View > Proof to give you a closer idea what your pic will look like when printed.
I have put up a "Workflow" for less experienced members on our Camera Club Website. Please feel free to have a look at it. www.ayrphoto.co.uk go to the "Notices and Info" pages then to the article "How to print with Photoshop and Epson". You won’t need all of it, but it does explain the use of Profiles and Monitor Caibration.

I also think you might be pleasantly surprised at just how good your "Cheap" printer might actually print.

Best of luck,

Roy G

Hi again.

Sorry. I am having problems reading my own writing. Too much coffee not enough beer, or should that be the other way round?

In the "Notices and Info" pages the article you need is actually called "How to Print for Accurate Colour"

Roy G

Thanks so much for the article – it helps a lot.

I still have a few questions about the monitor itself (Sony G520) – 21". This monitor is several years old and was refurbed by Sony about 2 years ago.

The color temperature range provided by the monitor goes from 5000 to 11000. When I set it at 6500, whites look a little creamy. Is that just because I’m accustomed to a temperature setting more around 8000, or might they not really be truly white?

The other question is – how do I set contrast?

Thanks again.

Louise

"louise" wrote in message

In article <yLoSe.2565$
guesthouse.co.uk says…

"Roy" wrote in message

"louise" wrote in message

Snipped>>>>>>>>>

Thanks so much for the article – it helps a lot.

I still have a few questions about the monitor itself (Sony G520) – 21". This monitor is several years old and was refurbed by Sony about 2 years ago.

The color temperature range provided by the monitor goes from 5000 to 11000. When I set it at 6500, whites look a little creamy. Is that just because I’m accustomed to a temperature setting more around 8000, or might they not really be truly white?

The other question is – how do I set contrast?

Thanks again.

Louise

Hi again.

You are right when you say that the whites on Screen look a bit ceamy once the Colour Balance is at 6500. The normal CB Temp of 9200, or whatever, is quite Blue, and reduucing this blueness makes whites SEEM creamy. You will soon get used to these more realistic colours.

The "Contrast" control is usually one of the controls available on screen when you press buttons on the Monitor’s front Panel. Set it to its highest level.

This will not seem over bright for non- graphic computer use once the Colour Balance is at 6500.

I am glad I ws able to help, even if only a little.

Roy G

louise wrote:

In article ,
How do I set the color temperature of the monitor itself – it goes from 5000 to 11000. At the moment it seems most sensible to me to put it at the mid-point, 800. Does this sound right?

Hi!

You don’t have to input that number by guessing…

1- Try the option of measuring the white point manually, e.g., like this:

http://www.pictopia.com/perl/doc?process=gamma_control

2- You will be lead to the black screen that shows grey squares with multiple kinds of greyness.

3- YOU have to choose (clicking back and forth) the one that looks better representing what YOU feel is OPTIMAL GREY. Now how you judge that? It is done by TRIAL and ERROR. Best way of trial and error is by means of choosing some grey which you think is best for YOUR printer. Choose it (in dark environment) then save it as the default profile giving it proper name.

4- Get a Pantone uncoated process swatches handy, and choose some grey 4 swatches (in one page).

5- Open new Photoshop document (RGB), and fill 4 rectangles with the greys of the same chosen 4 swatches combinations, by keying in the values of CMYK of every chosen swatch (RGB values will be automatically calculated according to the default profile and the default CMYK setup conversion curve). Why we choose 4 colors, is to make the comparison in step 7 easier.

6- Print on a paper that resembles the look (whiteness) and feel (smoothness) of Pantone paper.

7- Compare Pantone chosen grey with the printed output. If the match leads to failure distinguish sensible difference (by naked eyes using average lighting 4 feet away) for the 4 chosen swatches, then YOU HAVE SUCCEEDED to profile your system to work just nice with your printer. You have to be cautious as the industrial process printing is done by pattern of dots, while inkjet modern printers can fill the gaps and you can see no obvious dots (under loupe).

8- If you see a sensible difference between output and standard swatches, then you may have mistaken choosing the right grey. So you repeat the procedure.

You have to notice that this procedure is straightforward and saves you all speculations. It takes into consideration that the grey printed by the printer is composed of four colors, because the document was originally composed in RGB space (given that the CMYK conversion curve is set to the default medium black generation). The same should apply to the scanners’ profiles. However, the case is easier with scanner as you scan the greys of standard swatches and print them at once! They should be a very close or nearly perfect match in correct profiling.

Mohamed Al-Dabbagh
Senior Graphic Designer

In article <0HzSe.3182$>,
says…

"louise" wrote in message

In article <yLoSe.2565$
guesthouse.co.uk says…

"Roy" wrote in message

"louise" wrote in message

Snipped>>>>>>>>>

Thanks so much for the article – it helps a lot.

I still have a few questions about the monitor itself (Sony G520) – 21". This monitor is several years old and was refurbed by Sony about 2 years ago.

The color temperature range provided by the monitor goes from 5000 to 11000. When I set it at 6500, whites look a little creamy. Is that just because I’m accustomed to a temperature setting more around 8000, or might they not really be truly white?

The other question is – how do I set contrast?

Thanks again.

Louise

Hi again.

You are right when you say that the whites on Screen look a bit ceamy once the Colour Balance is at 6500. The normal CB Temp of 9200, or whatever, is quite Blue, and reduucing this blueness makes whites SEEM creamy. You will soon get used to these more realistic colours.

The "Contrast" control is usually one of the controls available on screen when you press buttons on the Monitor’s front Panel. Set it to its highest level.

This will not seem over bright for non- graphic computer use once the Colour Balance is at 6500.

I am glad I ws able to help, even if only a little.

Roy G

All done – one last question:

Might it be damaging, or stressful, to my CRT to leave the contrast at 100% all the time? It seems to me that once I set everything up this way, the contrast has to remain at 100%.

And, btw, you’re right – my eyes are already getting accustomed to the creamier white.

Louise

louise wrote:

In article <yLoSe.2565$
guesthouse.co.uk says…

"Roy" wrote in message

"louise" wrote in message

Photoshop 7
Win XP Pro
Sony G520 CRT

Hi there.

You have had some good replies.

From what I can gather most labs use sRGB as their Working Space, so it would probably be best to use sRGB as your Working Space. You should be able to get a Print Profile from them, which can be used in View > Proof to give you a closer idea what your pic will look like when printed.
I have put up a "Workflow" for less experienced members on our Camera Club Website. Please feel free to have a look at it. www.ayrphoto.co.uk go to the "Notices and Info" pages then to the article "How to print with Photoshop and Epson". You won’t need all of it, but it does explain the use of Profiles and Monitor Caibration.

I also think you might be pleasantly surprised at just how good your "Cheap" printer might actually print.

Best of luck,

Roy G

Hi again.

Sorry. I am having problems reading my own writing. Too much coffee not enough beer, or should that be the other way round?

In the "Notices and Info" pages the article you need is actually called "How to Print for Accurate Colour"

Roy G

Thanks so much for the article – it helps a lot.

I still have a few questions about the monitor itself (Sony G520) – 21". This monitor is several years old and was refurbed by Sony about 2 years ago.

The color temperature range provided by the monitor goes from 5000 to 11000. When I set it at 6500, whites look a little creamy. Is that just because I’m accustomed to a temperature setting more around 8000, or might they not really be truly white?

The other question is – how do I set contrast?

Thanks again.

Louise

I use ColorVision Spyder2 to profile my CRT monitor. I find it easy, fast, and accurate. I used to use Adobe Gamma for years thinking it was good enough. I am glad for the extra accuracy that I get from Spyder2.

The software leads me to set my contrast and brightness to get maximum white and black. It does this before the Spyder is attached to the monitor. It also wants me to make sure the monitor is set to 6500K.

However, after calibration the creaminess of the 6500K does cool down a tad. Therefore, the contrast, brightness, and temp settings are obviously a starting point for the actual calibration.

Clyde

"louise" wrote in message
SNIP

Might it be damaging, or stressful, to my CRT to leave the contrast at 100% all the time?

Yes, you’ll wear out the phosphors faster. Depending on your monitor, 90-95% may be a better setting.

It seems to me that once I set everything up this way, the contrast has to remain at 100%.

That’s right, once set up a certain way, you should leave general settings alone.

Bart

Bart van der Wolf wrote:

Might it be damaging, or stressful, to my CRT to leave the contrast at 100% all the time?

Yes, you’ll wear out the phosphors faster. Depending on your monitor, 90-95% may be a better setting.

Are you kidding Bart? I have my Compaq monitor working on 100% contrast since 1998. And is still giving very accurate offset results. So if you reduce contrast to 90-95% does this increase your phosphor life 10-5%? What I know that phosphor is harmed by static view, and this is why they invented "screen savers" with continuously changing objects. Even if what you say is true, then I prefer damaging one monitor during 10 years rather than damaging business once and for all!

Mohamed Al-Dabbagh
Senior Graphic Designer

"Mohamed Al-Dabbagh" wrote in message

Bart van der Wolf wrote:

Might it be damaging, or stressful, to my CRT to leave the contrast at 100% all the time?

Yes, you’ll wear out the phosphors faster. Depending on your monitor,
90-95% may be a better setting.

Are you kidding Bart?

No, I’m serious. What’s more, by setting the contrast control (which sets brightness) at 100%, most displays lose sharpness. What’s even more, when I profile my Trinitron monitor (with EyeOne Photo spectrometer) to the recommended brightness for CRTs (with the contrast control), I end up at … 93 (out of 100).

I have my Compaq monitor working on 100% contrast since
1998. And is still giving very accurate offset results. So if you reduce contrast to 90-95% does this increase your phosphor life 10-5%?

I assume you frequently profile your monitor, so I’m not surprised you get accurate offset results. Deterioration is a gradual process, and reducing the maximum output will increase useful lifetime. Whether it’s more, or less, than 10% also depends on room lighting conditions when switched off.

What I know that phosphor is harmed by static view, and this is why they invented "screen savers" with continuously changing objects. Even if what you say is true, then I prefer damaging one monitor during 10 years rather than damaging business once and for all!

Static view damage is the same process, only faster and usually more on 1 or 2 phosphors.
There’s no damage to your business when you set the output to the appropriate amount. It may be easier on your eyes though, and a closer representation of the limited print output contrast.

Bart

"Clyde" wrote in message

louise wrote:

In article <yLoSe.2565$
guesthouse.co.uk says…

"Roy" wrote in message

"louise" wrote in message

Photoshop 7
Win XP Pro
Sony G520 CRT

Hi there.

You have had some good replies.
SNIPPED>>>>>>>

I use ColorVision Spyder2 to profile my CRT monitor. I find it easy, fast, and accurate. I used to use Adobe Gamma for years thinking it was good enough. I am glad for the extra accuracy that I get from Spyder2.
The software leads me to set my contrast and brightness to get maximum white and black. It does this before the Spyder is attached to the monitor. It also wants me to make sure the monitor is set to 6500K.
However, after calibration the creaminess of the 6500K does cool down a tad. Therefore, the contrast, brightness, and temp settings are obviously a starting point for the actual calibration.

Clyde

That is interesting, did you notice a great difference, or was it fairly slight?

I have been sticking to Adobe Gamma for years, and I am quite pleased with the way my prints turn out.

I have many years experience of printing from col neg in the Darkroom, and when I started out on the digital route in 1998, I was very unimpressed with the lack of colour accuracy. The Club Members who were showing me Digital did not seem to be aware of these faults, and that is what got me reading up on Col Management.

I can understand that a Spyder will be better than eysight, but I am a bit reluctant to advise a "Newbie" to go and spend even more money.

Roy G

On 6 Sep 2005 06:09:14 -0700, "Mohamed Al-Dabbagh" wrote:

Bart van der Wolf wrote:

Might it be damaging, or stressful, to my CRT to leave the contrast at 100% all the time?

Yes, you’ll wear out the phosphors faster. Depending on your monitor, 90-95% may be a better setting.

Are you kidding Bart? I have my Compaq monitor working on 100% contrast since 1998. And is still giving very accurate offset results. So if you reduce contrast to 90-95% does this increase your phosphor life 10-5%? What I know that phosphor is harmed by static view, and this is why they invented "screen savers" with continuously changing objects. Even if what you say is true, then I prefer damaging one monitor during 10 years rather than damaging business once and for all!

Bart is absolutely correct. He mentions the figure he gets with his EyeOne Photo as 93. I get 94%.

—

Hecate – The Real One

Fashion: Buying things you don’t need, with money
you don’t have, to impress people you don’t like…

Bart van der Wolf wrote:

more, when I profile my Trinitron monitor (with EyeOne Photo spectrometer) to the recommended brightness for CRTs (with the contrast control), I end up at … 93 (out of 100).

Yes.. Spectrometer calibration is great… I believe you when you say your contrast gets to 93%. Still, 93% is a relative number to your own monitor, and you cannot generalize it. So the knob that reads 93% on your monitor may read 95% on another… Is there a really GREAT difference between 100% and 95% if the profiling was done correctly in either cases????

Whether it’s more, or less, than 10% also depends on room lighting

To complete the benefit of this useful thread, do you have emperical results of the 10% estimation? Do you actually know people who have substantially saved money through increasing their monitors lifespan, through gaining some negative contrast?

There’s no damage to your business when you set the output to the appropriate amount.

There will be damage if I cannot profile my monitor the right way. So if I decided to use spectrometer or profiling software and made it the right way, I will chooose whatever handy for me to achieve professionally acceptable results.

Mohamed Al-Dabbagh
Senior Graphic Designer

"Mohamed Al-Dabbagh" wrote in message
SNIP

Yes.. Spectrometer calibration is great… I believe you when you say your contrast gets to 93%. Still, 93% is a relative number to your own monitor, and you cannot generalize it. So the knob that reads 93% on your monitor may read 95% on another…

You are right it’s a number relative to my particular monitor, but many monitors use the same phosphors so the absolute differences may be smaller than suggested. Apparently "Hecate"’s monitor shows a similar characteristic to reach recommended CRT luminance.

Is there a really GREAT difference between 100% and 95% if the profiling was done correctly in either cases????

I doubt it, but the profiling goal is to reach an adequate luminance and allow a good characterization (without non-linear over-saturated RGBs). Only then does the profile get built, in order to compensate for non-linearities with 16-bit TRCs. At the same time the reduced (from maximum) contrast control setting will (depending on CRT) give a sharper image and less wear.

Whether it’s more, or less, than 10% also depends on room lighting

To complete the benefit of this useful thread, do you have emperical results of the 10% estimation? Do you actually know people who have substantially saved money through
increasing their monitors lifespan, through gaining some negative contrast?

I don’t burn enough monitors of the same make and production batch and at different settings, to be able and make a statistically sound evaluation. I do see a difference in sharpness and I do know when it’s uncomfortable to my eyes (which also depends on ambient room illumination level).

There seem to be few industry wide standards with regards to CRT/LCD wear measurement (e.g. at what level, constant or intermittent load, etc.), but a rating of around 25,000 hours to half brightness is quoted by several CRT manufacturers (60,000 hours for LCD), so they do gradually lose their brightness. Of course the monitor will have lost it’s usefullness long before that, due to burn-in and reduced brightness/gamut and unevenness below acceptable level.

Also, more recent devices have better useful lifetime due to improvements in reducing contaminants in the relative vacuum of a CRT that might get deposited/absorbed.

Bart

Bart van der Wolf wrote:

…and allow a good characterization (without non-linear over-saturated RGBs). Only then does the profile get built, in order to compensate for non-linearities with 16-bit TRCs. At the same time the reduced (from maximum) contrast control setting will (depending on CRT) give a sharper image and less wear.

What you forgot here Bart, is that over-saturation will only occur by mistake when you work for PREPRESS, upon properly calibrated monitor. The reason behind that is obvious: CMYK space values will never generate oversaturated color (spilling color lights for some extremes of RGB values). Correct me if I am wrong.

Also, when you profile a monitor, and choose the contrast to be 100%, you will, on the other hand, reduce brightness; And, brightness in that case will NEVER reach 100%, the factor that reduces normal consumption of phosphor.

Bottomline: when you calibrate your monitor using the CORRECT profiling, theoritically, you should end up with the same color range, that should consume phosphor the same way in each way of profiling, under the same ambient lighting conditions. Practically, proper profiling will differ slightly (according to users), and you wont know which profiling technique will provide better saving for phosphors.

Mohamed Al-Dabbagh
Senior Graphic Designer

"Mohamed Al-Dabbagh" wrote in message
SNIP

What you forgot here Bart, is that over-saturation will only occur by mistake when you work for PREPRESS, upon properly
calibrated monitor. The reason behind that is obvious: CMYK space values will never generate oversaturated color (spilling color lights for some extremes of RGB values). Correct me if I am wrong.

Depends on both which monitor phosphors are used, and which type of CMYK colorspace is the destination. Recent NEC/Mitsubishi monitors are claimed to cover some 97% of Adobe RGB’s gamut
( http://www.lumileds.com/newsandevents/releases/NECDCC_WINHEC 2004.PDF), much better than sRGB the lowest common denominator (see http://www.iccview.de/index_eng.htm for the difference Adobe RGB space makes for a display). You also seem to assume that the phosphors behave linearly towards their maximum emission point which, if that were true, would make profiling less difficult than it proves to be.

Also, when you profile a monitor, and choose the contrast to be 100%, you will, on the other hand, reduce brightness; And, brightness in that case will NEVER reach 100%, the factor that reduces normal consumption of phosphor.

That doesn’t make sense to me, but it may be due to terminology. If you say you choose the contrast to be 100% (which I assume means you increase the maximum brightness of the image with the contrast control), you’ll maximize the Luminance (Luminous flux emitted from a surface per unit solid angle per unit of area, AKA brightness). The only way to reduce brightness from there is by lowering the black point (brightness control) and thereby changing gamma. That doesn’t compute to a good characterization and needs a difficult profile attempting to correct for it, so you probably mean something different.

Bottomline: when you calibrate your monitor using the
CORRECT profiling, theoritically, you should end up with the same color range,

Correct.

that should consume phosphor the same way in each way of profiling, under the same ambient lighting conditions.

That’s where we have to agree to disagree, because one can set the display Luminance to various luminous flux levels (within a reasonable range), and still achieve a correct profile. However, the impact on display longevity is different (due to oxidation of the cathode and reduced efficiency of the phosphors).

Practically, proper profiling will differ slightly (according to users), and you wont know which profiling technique will provide better saving for phosphors.

We’ll continue to disagree, it seems.
To me it is clear that the profile for a higher Luminance will wear out the CRT faster.

Bart

On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 19:51:31 +0200, "Bart van der Wolf" wrote:

Practically, proper profiling will differ slightly (according to users), and you wont know which profiling technique will provide better saving for phosphors.

We’ll continue to disagree, it seems.
To me it is clear that the profile for a higher Luminance will wear out the CRT faster.

Clear to me too.

—

Hecate – The Real One

Fashion: Buying things you don’t need, with money
you don’t have, to impress people you don’t like…

Well, I think that we both have satisfactions in different directions. However, you have to notice that we agreed on some really important points. Other points need further study. Thank you Bart and thank you OP. I really enjoy fruitful discussions. Wow Hecate. I am glad you follow up. LOL.

Mohamed Al-Dabbagh
Senior Graphic Designer

"Mohamed Al-Dabbagh" wrote in message

Well, I think that we both have satisfactions in different directions.
However, you have to notice that we agreed on some really important points. Other points need further study. Thank you Bart and thank you
OP. I really enjoy fruitful discussions. Wow Hecate. I am glad you follow up. LOL.

I agree, there’s no better way to test one’s own understanding than by being challenged.

Thanks for a civil exchange of thoughts.

Bart