Skin tone help – plugin?

F
Posted By
frankg
Sep 29, 2005
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1235
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17
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Closed
I need help when adjusting skin tones (mostly caucasian). Is there a good plugin that also works on 16 bit files? I am partially col blind – particularly Red & Green, which of course also means Cyan & Magenta. I’m always having to ask someone to come over to my monitor (calibrated) and check if the skin is too red or ? I tend to overcompensate for Red and/or saturation I need something to help get me close to the correct tone – any suggestions

Thank you
=========

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MR
Mike Russell
Sep 29, 2005
"frankg" wrote in message
I need help when adjusting skin tones (mostly caucasian). Is there a good plugin that also works on 16 bit files? I am partially col blind – particularly Red & Green, which of course also means Cyan & Magenta. I’m always having to ask someone to come over to my monitor (calibrated) and check if the skin is too red or ? I tend to overcompensate for Red and/or saturation I need something to help get me close to the correct tone – any suggestions

If you’re on Windows, Curvemeister does very well at adjusting skin tones. Curvemeister has a graphical indicator, called a Hue Clock, that has gotten a very good response from customers, including those who are color blind .

Here’s a tutorial describing how to set skin tones in curvemeister: http://www.curvemeister.com/support/curvemeister2/help/Examp les/FleshTonePin.htm

And a related video:
http://www.curvemeister.com/tutorials/Video/Using_Pinning_fo r_Skin_Tones.avi

And last, but not least, this month’s Curvemeister class starts this Sunday. You may use the demo to take the class. It is open to any and all provided you have Photoshop Windows. Let me know offline if you are interested. —
Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
BW
Bob Williams
Sep 29, 2005
frankg wrote:

I need help when adjusting skin tones (mostly caucasian). Is there a good plugin that also works on 16 bit files? I am partially col blind – particularly Red & Green, which of course also means Cyan & Magenta. I’m always having to ask someone to come over to my monitor (calibrated) and check if the skin is too red or ? I tend to overcompensate for Red and/or saturation I need something to help get me close to the correct tone – any suggestions

Thank you
=========
I don’t know of a plug in but I do have several colors that I use frequently to try to match various Caucasian skin tones. Even within the Caucasian gamut, there are significant differences between Children, young adults (F vs M) and older persons (F vs M) I have found these combinations useful.
You can add these to your color Swatches.

R=217 R=228 R=239 R=250 R=221 R=226 G=163 G=178 G=177 G=186 G=173 G=188 B=139 B=160 B=152 B=160 B=163 B=175

Hope this helps you.
Bob Williams
F
frankg
Sep 29, 2005
I need help when adjusting skin tones (mostly caucasian). Is there a good plugin that also works on 16 bit files? I am partially col blind – particularly Red & Green, which of course also means Cyan & Magenta. I’m always having to ask someone to come over to my monitor (calibrated) and check if the skin is too red or ? I tend to overcompensate for Red and/or saturation I need something to help get me close to the correct tone – any suggestions

If you’re on Windows, Curvemeister does very well at adjusting skin tones. Curvemeister has a graphical indicator, called a Hue Clock, that has gotten a very good response from customers, including those who are color blind .

Here’s a tutorial describing how to set skin tones in curvemeister: http://www.curvemeister.com/support/curvemeister2/help/Examp les/FleshTonePin.htm
And a related video:
http://www.curvemeister.com/tutorials/Video/Using_Pinning_fo r_Skin_Tones.avi
And last, but not least, this month’s Curvemeister class starts this Sunday. You may use the demo to take the class. It is open to any and all provided you have Photoshop Windows. Let me know offline if you are interested.

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
Thanks but I’m not able to afford it right now (no work, no sales :-(.
F
frankg
Sep 29, 2005
I need help when adjusting skin tones (mostly caucasian). Is there a good plugin that also works on 16 bit files? I am partially col blind – particularly Red & Green, which of course also means Cyan & Magenta. I’m always having to ask someone to come over to my monitor (calibrated) and check if the skin is too red or ? I tend to overcompensate for Red and/or saturation I need something to help get me close to the correct tone – any suggestions

Thank you
=========
I don’t know of a plug in but I do have several colors that I use frequently to try to match various Caucasian skin tones. Even within the Caucasian gamut, there are significant differences between Children, young adults (F vs M) and older persons (F vs M) I have found these combinations useful.
You can add these to your color Swatches.

R=217 R=228 R=239 R=250 R=221 R=226 G=163 G=178 G=177 G=186 G=173 G=188 B=139 B=160 B=152 B=160 B=163 B=175
Hope this helps you.
Bob Williams
=========
Sounds good – how eaxactly do you use these values/colors (I’ve never used Swatches). Do you create each as a foreground color by entering these values in the col picker, and then save them as another col in a swatch. So perhaps, select new swatch from the swatch menu, name it something like ‘skin tones’, and then create each col as mentioned above?? And then how do you apply it or use it as reference?
R
Ron
Sep 29, 2005
"frankg" wrote in message
Thanks but I’m not able to afford it right now (no work, no sales :-(.

Just use PS’s AutoLevels and leave it at that. It works reasonably well in most cases.

If you find you’re making the same adjustments over and over again (e.g. increasing red/saturation) your problem is likely with your source (by the way, what is your source? scanner? camera?). See if you can adjust it to compensate before bringing the images into PS.
MR
Mike Russell
Sep 29, 2005
"frankg" wrote in message
….
Thanks but I’m not able to afford it right now (no work, no sales :-(.

Frank,
The demo’s free, and the hue clock is 100% functional, so you may want to use it to check flesh tones.

Mike
F
frankg
Sep 30, 2005
Thanks but I’m not able to afford it right now (no work, no sales :-(.

Frank,
The demo’s free, and the hue clock is 100% functional, so you may want to use it to check flesh tones.

Mike
OK thanks I’ll give it a try. Just had a very quick look online – there are presets for a few skin tones, correct ? And the narrator suggests the user can add more – how do you do that? Either one could use the values Bob suggests above or perhaps take samples off other images that one likes – how would you implement them? I guess I’m jumping the gun and should first download and try the program
MR
Mike Russell
Sep 30, 2005
From: "frankg"
….
OK thanks I’ll give it a try. Just had a very quick look online – there are presets for a few skin tones, correct ?

Yes, the number is fairly small, but you’d be surprised how useful they are. Briefly, most skin tones, regardless of race, are of a very similar same hue and saturation. For example, the Mona Lisa may be "restored" using any of the 7 or so skin tone pins supplied with Curvemeister.

And the narrator suggests the user can add more – how do you do that? Either one could use the values Bob suggests above or perhaps take samples off other images that one likes – how would you implement them?

In Curvemeister, find a picture you’re happy with – for example a photograph of a person where you especially like the skin tones, or a pet where the color is an especially good match, create a sample there, and use the sample’s "Create Pin from Sample" command to make a pin. You may then use that pin on other images.

I guess I’m jumping the gun and should first download and try the program

This will be discussed in week 4 of the class, which you are welcome to take. The concepts carry over into Photoshop curves.


Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
BW
Bob Williams
Sep 30, 2005
frankg wrote:

I need help when adjusting skin tones (mostly caucasian). Is there a good plugin that also works on 16 bit files? I am partially col blind – particularly Red & Green, which of course also means Cyan & Magenta. I’m always having to ask someone to come over to my monitor (calibrated) and check if the skin is too red or ? I tend to overcompensate for Red and/or saturation I need something to help get me close to the correct tone – any suggestions

Thank you
=========

I don’t know of a plug in but I do have several colors that I use frequently to try to match various Caucasian skin tones. Even within the Caucasian gamut, there are significant differences between Children, young adults (F vs M) and older persons (F vs M) I have found these combinations useful.
You can add these to your color Swatches.

R=217 R=228 R=239 R=250 R=221 R=226 G=163 G=178 G=177 G=186 G=173 G=188 B=139 B=160 B=152 B=160 B=163 B=175
Hope this helps you.
Bob Williams

=========
Sounds good – how eaxactly do you use these values/colors (I’ve never used Swatches). Do you create each as a foreground color by entering these values in the col picker, and then save them as another col in a swatch. So perhaps, select new swatch from the swatch menu, name it something like ‘skin tones’, and then create each col as mentioned above?? And then how do you apply it or use it as reference?

That’s exactly right.
There are several ways to use it.
One way is to go to FILE>NEW>EDIT>FILL with the desired color and leave that image open while you adjust Color Balance, Curves etc., on your subject’s complexion to match the color of the open image. You can use the INFO palette confirm the color match.
Bob Williams
F
frankg
Sep 30, 2005
Not sure I get the hang of it – in the simplest terms, to get a satisfactory skin tone, do you click on one of the skin pins and drag it onto the image and when you’re happy with what it looks like -ok?

the picture tone changes as you drag the pin about.
each pin is a different rgb value.

so it’s just a matter of try any/all the pins on all the areas of the image?


OK thanks I’ll give it a try. Just had a very quick look online – there are presets for a few skin tones, correct ?

Yes, the number is fairly small, but you’d be surprised how useful they are. Briefly, most skin tones, regardless of race, are of a very similar same hue and saturation. For example, the Mona Lisa may be "restored" using any of the 7 or so skin tone pins supplied with Curvemeister.
And the narrator suggests the user can add more – how do you do that? Either one could use the values Bob suggests above or perhaps take samples off other images that one likes – how would you implement them?

In Curvemeister, find a picture you’re happy with – for example a photograph of a person where you especially like the skin tones, or a pet where the color is an especially good match, create a sample there, and use the sample’s "Create Pin from Sample" command to make a pin. You may then use that pin on other images.

I guess I’m jumping the gun and should first download and try the program

This will be discussed in week 4 of the class, which you are welcome to take. The concepts carry over into Photoshop curves.


Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com

MR
Mike Russell
Sep 30, 2005
—– Original Message —–
From: "frankg"
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.photoshop
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: Skin tone help – plugin?

Not sure I get the hang of it – in the simplest terms, to get a satisfactory skin tone, do you click on one of the skin pins and drag it onto the image and when you’re happy with what it looks like -ok?
the picture tone changes as you drag the pin about.
each pin is a different rgb value.

so it’s just a matter of try any/all the pins on all the areas of the image?

I almost always use the first pin, and drag it onto an area with a good even skin tone. The operation takes about five seconds. Probably the easiest way to explain is with the video, which you may have already seen: http://www.curvemeister.com/tutorials/Video/Using_Pinning_fo r_Skin_Tones.avi ..

The idea is not to rely on the appearance, but to use the hue clock to quickly check all of the skin tones, and make sure the poiinter is the length of an hour hand, and pointing where an hour hand would point for a time between 12:15 and 1:30. Since this is the demo, you’ll be mostly using the hue clock for checking, after you fix things in Photoshop, and not really using the pin feature as such.

In some cases – for very light skinned individuals, the clock can point straight up, but this is relatively unusual. If it points before 12:00, your skin tone is starting to be too purple, and at 1:00 or later, it’s starting to get too yellow. The length, which indicates saturation, is important as well. It it’s extending too far, the saturation is too high. If it’s too short, the color is too muted.

Keep me posted on your results. I’ve had one student who is color blind report that he is no longer getting any criticism for flesh tones (from his brother in law no less 🙂 after learning this technique. Keep the clock hand in the right range – roughly lunch hour – and you’re golden. —
Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
F
frankg
Sep 30, 2005
Thanks for your help – i’ll try it.

"Mike Russell" wrote in message
—– Original Message —–
From: "frankg"
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.photoshop
Sent: Friday, September 30, 2005 9:44 AM
Subject: Re: Skin tone help – plugin?

Not sure I get the hang of it – in the simplest terms, to get a satisfactory skin tone, do you click on one of the skin pins and drag it onto the image and when you’re happy with what it looks like -ok?
the picture tone changes as you drag the pin about.
each pin is a different rgb value.

so it’s just a matter of try any/all the pins on all the areas of the image?

I almost always use the first pin, and drag it onto an area with a good even skin tone. The operation takes about five seconds. Probably the easiest way to explain is with the video, which you may have already seen: http://www.curvemeister.com/tutorials/Video/Using_Pinning_fo r_Skin_Tones.avi .
The idea is not to rely on the appearance, but to use the hue clock to quickly check all of the skin tones, and make sure the poiinter is the length of an hour hand, and pointing where an hour hand would point for a time between 12:15 and 1:30. Since this is the demo, you’ll be mostly using the hue clock for checking, after you fix things in Photoshop, and not really using the pin feature as such.

In some cases – for very light skinned individuals, the clock can point straight up, but this is relatively unusual. If it points before 12:00, your skin tone is starting to be too purple, and at 1:00 or later, it’s starting to get too yellow. The length, which indicates saturation, is important as well. It it’s extending too far, the saturation is too high. If it’s too short, the color is too muted.

Keep me posted on your results. I’ve had one student who is color blind report that he is no longer getting any criticism for flesh tones (from his brother in law no less 🙂 after learning this technique. Keep the clock hand in the right range – roughly lunch hour – and you’re golden. —
Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com

TN
Tom Nelson
Oct 3, 2005
….or use the Color Sampler tool (under the eyedropper in the Toolbar) to place a sample on a skin area. Then watch the Info palette as you adjust with Curves. Remember that if the skin is off-color the rest of the image is too.

Author Dan Margulis is interested in color balancing for color blind individuals. He has attempted to discover methods which such people can use when evaluating and balancing images, and includes such attempts in some of his books. If the picture includes objects of known color (whites, neutrals, blue sky, skin tones, foliage) you may not know an exact color but can make guesses based on known values. In CMYK, caucasian skin should have M and Y approximately equal; yellow can be up to 25% higher. A little C pushes skin towards golden brown. It can be 1/5 to 1/3 the M value.

If you’re correcting in CMYK I recommend his "Professional Photoshop." If RGB try his new "Photoshop LAB Color." If you’re doing color correction professionally you owe it to yourself to read Margulis.

Tom Nelson
Tom Nelson Photography

In article <0%6%e.304314$>, Bob Williams
wrote:

frankg wrote:

I need help when adjusting skin tones (mostly caucasian). Is there a good plugin that also works on 16 bit files? I am partially col blind – particularly Red & Green, which of course also means Cyan & Magenta. I’m always having to ask someone to come over to my monitor (calibrated) and check if the skin is too red or ? I tend to overcompensate for Red and/or saturation I need something to help get me close to the correct tone – any suggestions

Thank you
=========

I don’t know of a plug in but I do have several colors that I use frequently to try to match various Caucasian skin tones. Even within the Caucasian gamut, there are significant differences between Children, young adults (F vs M) and older persons (F vs M) I have found these combinations useful.
You can add these to your color Swatches.

R=217 R=228 R=239 R=250 R=221 R=226 G=163 G=178 G=177 G=186 G=173 G=188 B=139 B=160 B=152 B=160 B=163 B=175
Hope this helps you.
Bob Williams

=========
Sounds good – how eaxactly do you use these values/colors (I’ve never used Swatches). Do you create each as a foreground color by entering these values
in the col picker, and then save them as another col in a swatch. So perhaps, select new swatch from the swatch menu, name it something like ‘skin tones’, and then create each col as mentioned above?? And then how do you apply it or use it as reference?

That’s exactly right.
There are several ways to use it.
One way is to go to FILE>NEW>EDIT>FILL with the desired color and leave that image open while you adjust Color Balance, Curves etc., on your subject’s complexion to match the color of the open image. You can use the INFO palette confirm the color match.
Bob Williams
MR
Mike Russell
Oct 3, 2005
"Tom Nelson" wrote in message
…or use the Color Sampler tool (under the eyedropper in the Toolbar) to place a sample on a skin area. Then watch the Info palette as you adjust with Curves. Remember that if the skin is off-color the rest of the image is too.

Author Dan Margulis is interested in color balancing for color blind individuals. He has attempted to discover methods which such people can use when evaluating and balancing images, and includes such attempts in some of his books. If the picture includes objects of known color (whites, neutrals, blue sky, skin tones, foliage) you may not know an exact color but can make guesses based on known values. In CMYK, caucasian skin should have M and Y approximately equal; yellow can be up to 25% higher. A little C pushes skin towards golden brown. It can be 1/5 to 1/3 the M value.

If you’re correcting in CMYK I recommend his "Professional Photoshop." If RGB try his new "Photoshop LAB Color." If you’re doing color correction professionally you owe it to yourself to read Margulis.
Tom Nelson
Tom Nelson Photography

I second Tom’s recommendation of Dan Margulis’s books, both Professional Photoshop, and his newer one on Lab Color.

The crux of Dan’s approach, and where he is unique, is that everything is "by the numbers", and many color blind Photoshoppers find his techniques provide a way to get good, accurate results.

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
J
JJSrock
Oct 4, 2005
By the numbers work very well in lots of situations, especially when you know what the *correct* numbers should be, such as true gray tones, or skin in castless lighting. But sometimes (more often then not) different parts of a person’s skin in an image can be under different lighting conditions, and none of them may be castless. Consider a face lit by candle light. In such cases, the skin tone numbers do not apply, or apply exactly.

Mike Russell wrote:
"Tom Nelson" wrote in message
…or use the Color Sampler tool (under the eyedropper in the Toolbar) to place a sample on a skin area. Then watch the Info palette as you adjust with Curves. Remember that if the skin is off-color the rest of the image is too.

Author Dan Margulis is interested in color balancing for color blind individuals. He has attempted to discover methods which such people can use when evaluating and balancing images, and includes such attempts in some of his books. If the picture includes objects of known color (whites, neutrals, blue sky, skin tones, foliage) you may not know an exact color but can make guesses based on known values. In CMYK, caucasian skin should have M and Y approximately equal; yellow can be up to 25% higher. A little C pushes skin towards golden brown. It can be 1/5 to 1/3 the M value.

If you’re correcting in CMYK I recommend his "Professional Photoshop." If RGB try his new "Photoshop LAB Color." If you’re doing color correction professionally you owe it to yourself to read Margulis.
Tom Nelson
Tom Nelson Photography

I second Tom’s recommendation of Dan Margulis’s books, both Professional Photoshop, and his newer one on Lab Color.

The crux of Dan’s approach, and where he is unique, is that everything is "by the numbers", and many color blind Photoshoppers find his techniques provide a way to get good, accurate results.

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
MR
Mike Russell
Oct 4, 2005
wrote in message
By the numbers work very well in lots of situations, especially when you know what the *correct* numbers should be, such as true gray tones, or skin in castless lighting. But sometimes (more often then not) different parts of a person’s skin in an image can be under different lighting conditions, and none of them may be castless. Consider a face lit by candle light. In such cases, the skin tone numbers do not apply, or apply exactly.
This is true. It’s also true that the hue angle and saturation are very consistent.


Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
TN
Tom Nelson
Oct 4, 2005
In article wrote:

By the numbers work very well in lots of situations, especially when you know what the *correct* numbers should be, such as true gray tones, or skin in castless lighting. But sometimes (more often then not) different parts of a person’s skin in an image can be under different lighting conditions, and none of them may be castless. Consider a face lit by candle light. In such cases, the skin tone numbers do not apply, or apply exactly.

Riiight… So in such a situation do you want a neutral balance or one that looks like candlelight? In many such situations a neutral balance looks wrong. Since the viewer is not expecting neutral color, you have MORE leeway to make a plausible color balance.

Cross lighting will be a problem in any case. A by-the-numbers apporoach will let you identify the problem more precisely and point you toward a specific solution.

Tom Nelson
Tom Nelson Photography

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