Workflow & Colorspace (long)

Search   Help    Register    Login   Home
Sat, 08 October 2005 12:16 Go to next message
Mikey (Advanced Photoshop user)
Hi all. It's the never-ending workflow issue. I'll try to keep it
terse. My questions are about proper use of Photoshop and weeding out
any problems.

I'm using photos from various sources (some of them really crappy) and
adding them to a template in Photoshop (v7, sorry). Think 'CD jacket
cover' and it's essentially the same thing. A couple photos in a box
with some text.

The results are printed on (primarily) a crappy Epson C64 (which is not
doing too bad, given that the photos are fairly small and thus the
problems are often too small to be seen!) Epson supplies a Colorstink
profile and I'm using Colorstink matching in the output (that's given
me the best results so far).

I was convinced some time ago to use BruceRGB for a working space; you
can probably guess which articles and stuff I read.

My Photoshop setup is like so:
Working RGB - BruceRGB
Working CMYK - ColorSync CMYK
Management RGB - Convert to Working RGB
Management CMYK - Convert to Working CMYK
Conversion - Apple ColorSync
Intent - Relative Colorimetric
w/Black point & dither

So, my template is in BruceRGB. I find images (in whatever tagged or
untagged state they may be in) and drag 'em in. I correct them as best
as possible, and use Print Preview to print them out, using ColorSync.
The output profile is the printer's (Epson's) generic profile for the
printer. The results are pretty decent.

My Proofing setup is set to Working CMYK, and viewing as a proof
usually approximates the output I get; shifts in reds and purples are
particularly accurate. So unless I'm totally confused, this seems like
a good workflow. Opinions wanted.

Now here's where I get into trouble. After editing the photos for use,
I save them in case I use them again. Because they've been stuck into
the template, they're now in BruceRGB, the working space. I'm not so
sure that's the right thing to do with them. I'm a little confused as
to what will (or won't happen) when I stick them into another BruceRGB
template. Moreover, I'm starting to feel the weight of sRGB and Adobe
RGB advocates. What to do?
Sat, 08 October 2005 15:11 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mike Russell (Photoshop expert)
"Mikey" <exceptionsTakeThisOutDude@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:2005100812165750073%exceptionsTakeThisOutDude@earthlinknet...
> Hi all. It's the never-ending workflow issue. I'll try to keep it terse.
> My questions are about proper use of Photoshop and weeding out any
> problems.
>
> I'm using photos from various sources (some of them really crappy) and
> adding them to a template in Photoshop (v7, sorry). Think 'CD jacket
> cover' and it's essentially the same thing. A couple photos in a box with
> some text.
>
> The results are printed on (primarily) a crappy Epson C64 (which is not
> doing too bad, given that the photos are fairly small and thus the
> problems are often too small to be seen!) Epson supplies a Colorstink
> profile and I'm using Colorstink matching in the output (that's given me
> the best results so far).
>
> I was convinced some time ago to use BruceRGB for a working space; you can
> probably guess which articles and stuff I read.

Yes, and that you stopped reading new material about two years ago, when
Bruce Fraser began advocating ProPhoto RGB :-)

> My Photoshop setup is like so:
> Working RGB - BruceRGB
> Working CMYK - ColorSync CMYK
> Management RGB - Convert to Working RGB
> Management CMYK - Convert to Working CMYK
> Conversion - Apple ColorSync
> Intent - Relative Colorimetric
> w/Black point & dither
>
> So, my template is in BruceRGB. I find images (in whatever tagged or
> untagged state they may be in) and drag 'em in. I correct them as best as
> possible, and use Print Preview to print them out, using ColorSync. The
> output profile is the printer's (Epson's) generic profile for the printer.
> The results are pretty decent.
>
> My Proofing setup is set to Working CMYK, and viewing as a proof usually
> approximates the output I get; shifts in reds and purples are particularly
> accurate. So unless I'm totally confused, this seems like a good workflow.
> Opinions wanted.
>
> Now here's where I get into trouble. After editing the photos for use, I
> save them in case I use them again. Because they've been stuck into the
> template, they're now in BruceRGB, the working space. I'm not so sure
> that's the right thing to do with them. I'm a little confused as to what
> will (or won't happen) when I stick them into another BruceRGB template.
> Moreover, I'm starting to feel the weight of sRGB and Adobe RGB advocates.
> What to do?

If your results are good, that speaks for itself, doesn't it? Frankly I
would stay with Bruce RGB, perhaps doing one job in Adobe or sRGB, and see
how they compare. There is no great benefit, or penalty, with picking one
color space over the other

I don't advocate ProPhoto RGB, which is an extremely wide gamut space and
hence difficult to adjust in. If you experiment with that color space,
again, trust your own results over anything you hear from others.

One heads-up: if you share your rgb images with others, I recommend sending
an sRGB image, since the colors will be dull if an Adobe or Bruce RGB image
is interpreted incorrectly downstream.
--

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
Sun, 09 October 2005 10:29 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Mikey (Advanced Photoshop user)
>>
>
> Yes, and that you stopped reading new material about two years ago,
> when Bruce Fraser began advocating ProPhoto RGB :-)

You are correct sir! I

>
> If your results are good, that speaks for itself, doesn't it? Frankly
> I would stay with Bruce RGB, perhaps doing one job in Adobe or sRGB,
> and see how they compare. There is no great benefit, or penalty, with
> picking one color space over the other

Super. So I'm like..validated. I was concerned I was doing something
wrong, perhaps since I'm two
years out-of-touch (like my version of Pshop).

>
> I don't advocate ProPhoto RGB, which is an extremely wide gamut space
> and hence difficult to adjust in. If you experiment with that color
> space, again, trust your own results over anything you hear from others.
>
> One heads-up: if you share your rgb images with others, I recommend
> sending an sRGB image, since the colors will be dull if an Adobe or
> Bruce RGB image is interpreted incorrectly downstream.

Okay thanks I really appreciate it.
Sun, 09 October 2005 20:40 Go to previous messageGo to next message
bmoag (Photoshop expert)
For your uses and printer AdobeRGB and sRGB are wider than the gamut of your
printer. Such is the case for virtually everyone who outputs to an inkjet
and the rest is beyond rational argument to the convinced and unconvinced.
This includes many of the arguments that center on 8bit vs 16bit color which
ignore the realities of printer gamut and software conversion of 16 to 8 bit
printer color.

I cannot understand why you have such a convoluted workflow for such a
simple task. All of this seems overkill for homebrewed CD covers.

I may have missed it but it does not appear that you calibrate your monitor
with an external device. Without a calibrated monitor the first and most
vital step, trying to faithfully convert what you see on your monitor to
what comes out of your printer becomes something of a crapshoot and it gets
even worse when you start converting between color spaces. There is no color
management without monitor calibration using an external device and not the
Adobe applet.

After that I would keep everything in AdobeRGB. When you bring an image in
to your composite masterpiece convert it to AdobeRGB and create your
masterpiece in AdobeRGB. When you print you can use the canned Epson
profiles for whatever paper you use, as they are pretty good. Alternatively
some reasonably priced external calibrators, like the Monaco Optix system,
allow for a simple and reasonably reliable way of creating your own
paper/printer profiles. If you do it this way there are three color spaces,
monitor/AdobeRGB/printer-paper, and they should all interconvert as
seamlessly as possible if you do it right.
Mon, 10 October 2005 16:24 Go to previous message
Mikey (Advanced Photoshop user)
>
> After that I would keep everything in AdobeRGB. When you bring an image
> in to your composite masterpiece convert it to AdobeRGB and create your
> masterpiece in AdobeRGB. When you print you can use the canned Epson
> profiles for whatever paper you use, as they are pretty good.
> Alternatively some reasonably priced external calibrators, like the
> Monaco Optix system, allow for a simple and reasonably reliable way of
> creating your own paper/printer profiles. If you do it this way there
> are three color spaces, monitor/AdobeRGB/printer-paper, and they should
> all interconvert as seamlessly as possible if you do it right.

Yeah, so AdobeRGB for the working space? I can handle that.
Create a new topic Submit Reply
Previous Topic: convert psd to jpg?
Next Topic: TIFF vs PSD
Goto Forum:

Adobe Photoshop

Adobe Photoshop techniques & help
Photoshop for Windows
Photoshop for Mac
Technical questions

Photoshop Elements

Adobe Photoshop Elements