Maintain Photo Definition

QR
Posted By
Quercus Robur
Nov 23, 2005
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504
Replies
17
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Closed
I have owned an Olympus C50, 5mpx digital camera for several years. Takes wonderful pictures. I mostly use HQ mode, 2560×1920 pixels producing a
1.05MB file, dimensions 17.8×13.3 inches with a resolution of 144. I
generally size and re-touch using Adobe Photoshop, with bicubic sampling to get a 10×8 print, then insert into Publisher 2000 for printing. I just took a very detailed picture of trees without leaves, lots of fine twigs, and compared the re-sized picture from Adobe with the same picture formatted for size (about 25%) in Publisher. The Publisher picture is much superior for rendering detail. I then compared the picture re-sized in Irfanview and PictureIt. Publisher wins every time. Does anyone know what is going on? If I use Adobe for correcting other problems like color cast and brightness, am I loosing definition?

If I take a picture using Olympus proprietary SHQ mode, it produces a picture with the same resolution and dimensions but twice the size at
2.08MB. What is the advantage if any?

Martin

MacBook Pro 16” Mockups 🔥

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– 12 scenes

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T
Tacit
Nov 23, 2005
In article
<EqPgf.150375$>,
"Quercus Robur" wrote:

I
generally size and re-touch using Adobe Photoshop, with bicubic sampling to get a 10×8 print, then insert into Publisher 2000 for printing. I just took a very detailed picture of trees without leaves, lots of fine twigs, and compared the re-sized picture from Adobe with the same picture formatted for size (about 25%) in Publisher. The Publisher picture is much superior for rendering detail. I then compared the picture re-sized in Irfanview and PictureIt. Publisher wins every time. Does anyone know what is going on? If I use Adobe for correcting other problems like color cast and brightness, am I loosing definition?

What format are you using? Are you taking the picture as a JPEG, editing it in Photoshop, and then saving it as a JPEG?

It sounds like that’s what you are doing. The JPEG format is "lossy;" it deliberately degrades image quality in order to make the file smaller on disk. It was invented for situations where image size on disk is critical and image quality is not important.

If you take a JPEG from your camera, edit it in Photoshop, then save the edited file as a JPEG, you will lose quality.

Never edit and re-save a JPEG. If you edit the file, save it as a TIFF and place the TIFF, not a JPEG, into Publisher.


Art, photography, shareware, polyamory, literature, kink: all at http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html
QR
Quercus Robur
Nov 23, 2005
Hi,
Thanks for the suggestion. I now understand the error of opening, editing and savaing a JPEG as JPEG. Just tried opening a JPEG in Photoshop, reduced from 17 to 4 inches, saved as TIFF, opened in Publisher. Small improvement, but still not as good as scaling in Publisher.
Martin

"tacit" wrote in message
In article
<EqPgf.150375$>,
"Quercus Robur" wrote:

I
generally size and re-touch using Adobe Photoshop, with bicubic sampling to
get a 10×8 print, then insert into Publisher 2000 for printing. I just took
a very detailed picture of trees without leaves, lots of fine twigs, and compared the re-sized picture from Adobe with the same picture formatted for
size (about 25%) in Publisher. The Publisher picture is much superior for rendering detail. I then compared the picture re-sized in Irfanview and PictureIt. Publisher wins every time. Does anyone know what is going on? If
I use Adobe for correcting other problems like color cast and brightness, am
I loosing definition?

What format are you using? Are you taking the picture as a JPEG, editing it in Photoshop, and then saving it as a JPEG?

It sounds like that’s what you are doing. The JPEG format is "lossy;" it deliberately degrades image quality in order to make the file smaller on disk. It was invented for situations where image size on disk is critical and image quality is not important.

If you take a JPEG from your camera, edit it in Photoshop, then save the edited file as a JPEG, you will lose quality.

Never edit and re-save a JPEG. If you edit the file, save it as a TIFF and place the TIFF, not a JPEG, into Publisher.


Art, photography, shareware, polyamory, literature, kink: all at http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html
T
Tacit
Nov 23, 2005
In article <yQQgf.82638$>,
"Quercus Robur" wrote:

Thanks for the suggestion. I now understand the error of opening, editing and savaing a JPEG as JPEG. Just tried opening a JPEG in Photoshop, reduced from 17 to 4 inches, saved as TIFF,…

When you scaled it, was "resample image" turned on or off?


Art, photography, shareware, polyamory, literature, kink: all at http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html
QR
Quercus Robur
Nov 23, 2005
Turned on. Should it be OFF?
Martin

"tacit" wrote in message
In article <yQQgf.82638$>,
"Quercus Robur" wrote:

Thanks for the suggestion. I now understand the error of opening, editing
and savaing a JPEG as JPEG. Just tried opening a JPEG in Photoshop, reduced
from 17 to 4 inches, saved as TIFF,…

When you scaled it, was "resample image" turned on or off?

Art, photography, shareware, polyamory, literature, kink: all at http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html
T
Tacit
Nov 23, 2005
In article <W5Sgf.151246$>,
"Quercus Robur" wrote:

Turned on. Should it be OFF?

Yes!

In English, "resample image" means "change the number of pixels." When you have it turned on, and you resize the image smaller, you are instructing Photoshop to throw pixels away. That is why your image is becoming poorer quality.


Art, photography, shareware, polyamory, literature, kink: all at http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html
K
kitakits
Nov 23, 2005
When scaling and you want to retain the image details.. .. turn off "resample image" If you are concern of data size.. then turn it on.. you will sacrifice details… in the process.
R
Roberto
Nov 23, 2005
"Quercus Robur" wrote in message
[…] The Publisher picture is much superior for rendering detail.

How large is the Publisher picture, really? It might be that Publisher is saving at much greater size (resolution) than you are asking for in Photoshop, so it will print much clearer.
QR
Quercus Robur
Nov 24, 2005
I am not printing from Photoshop. I either re-size in Photoshop, save, and insert the picture into Publisher, loosing details, or I insert the original picture, format and scale in Publisher with good resolution. The file is 2560×1920 pixels, resolution 144, dimensions 17×13 in aprox and 1.05MB. Martin

"Lorem Ipsum" wrote in message
"Quercus Robur" wrote in message
[…] The Publisher picture is much superior for rendering detail.

How large is the Publisher picture, really? It might be that Publisher is saving at much greater size (resolution) than you are asking for in Photoshop, so it will print much clearer.

QR
Quercus Robur
Nov 24, 2005
I understand what my problem is. When I re-size, width, height and resolution are locked. So, when I re-size from 17 in width to 4.2 in, the resolution goes from 144 to 609. And therefore no change in size when inserted into Publisher. I am sure I should know this, but how do I unlock W, H & R? Thank you for the advice.
Martin

"tacit" wrote in message
In article <W5Sgf.151246$>,
"Quercus Robur" wrote:

Turned on. Should it be OFF?

Yes!

In English, "resample image" means "change the number of pixels." When you have it turned on, and you resize the image smaller, you are instructing Photoshop to throw pixels away. That is why your image is becoming poorer quality.


Art, photography, shareware, polyamory, literature, kink: all at http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html
T
Tacit
Nov 24, 2005
In article <r68hf.156722$>,
"Quercus Robur" wrote:

I understand what my problem is. When I re-size, width, height and resolution are locked. So, when I re-size from 17 in width to 4.2 in, the resolution goes from 144 to 609. And therefore no change in size when inserted into Publisher. I am sure I should know this, but how do I unlock W, H & R? Thank you for the advice.

Actually, it DOES change when inserted in Publisher. It comes in physically smaller.

Before the resize, when you insert it in Publisher it will be 17 inches wide on the page. After the resize, when you insert it in Publisher it will be 4.9 inches wide on the page. In both cases, it will look the same in Photoshop, because the number of pixels will be the same.

You unlock resolution from width and height by turning on "Resample Image." You do not want to do this, though; whenever you throw pixels away, quality goes down.


Art, photography, shareware, polyamory, literature, kink: all at http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html
T
Tacit
Nov 24, 2005
In article <7Z7hf.156681$>,
"Quercus Robur" wrote:

I am not printing from Photoshop. I either re-size in Photoshop, save, and insert the picture into Publisher, loosing details, or I insert the original picture, format and scale in Publisher with good resolution. The file is 2560×1920 pixels, resolution 144, dimensions 17×13 in aprox and 1.05MB. Martin

You are placing a JPEG in Photoshop.

I can tell because you say the file size is 1.05 MB, but a 2560×1920 pixel RGB image is actually 14 MB.

You have two problems; there are two reasons you are losing detail when you resize in Photoshop.

You are losing detail because you are resizing in Photoshop with "Resample Image" turned on. This throws away pixels and reduces quality.

Then you are losing detail again because you are saving your resized image as a JPEG. Do not do this. Never edit and re-save a JPEG if you can help it; opening and re-saving a JPEG degrades its quality. Never use JPEG unless there is a clear reason why the image absolutely has to be JPEG and no other file format will work.

The most appropriate file format for use with page layout programs like Publisher is TIFF, not JPEG. Open your picture, resize it in Photoshop with Resample Image turned off, then save it as a TIFF, not a JPEG. Place the TIFF in Publisher. You will keep the high quality.


Art, photography, shareware, polyamory, literature, kink: all at http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html
K
kitakits
Nov 24, 2005
I don’t understand what the project is for though.. What is it for by the way? If it is just a simple magazine, you don’t need it to have all the details.. If you are planning billboard size photography then you need MB size photos…
QR
Quercus Robur
Nov 24, 2005
Thanks "tacit" for your patience. I am missing something. I just re-sized my 17" picture in Photoshop to width 2in, Height 1.5in, re-sample off, the result, resolution 1280, and saved. When I inserted in Publisher it had been scaled, by Publisher, to 56% (aprox) and was still too large to fit on an 8×11 page. I am using Publisher 2000. I understand why I should not save a JPEG of a JPEG.

I seem to have created two parts to this thread, so to consolidate. My objective is to print photo quality 8×10 or 5×7 prints for a photo album or as wall prints. I have nine picture frames doweled together to form a montage on a wall and like to change the content each month.

Hope you all have a great Thanksgiving.

Martin
"tacit" wrote in message
In article <r68hf.156722$>,
"Quercus Robur" wrote:

I understand what my problem is. When I re-size, width, height and resolution are locked. So, when I re-size from 17 in width to 4.2 in, the
resolution goes from 144 to 609. And therefore no change in size when inserted into Publisher. I am sure I should know this, but how do I unlock
W, H & R? Thank you for the advice.

Actually, it DOES change when inserted in Publisher. It comes in physically smaller.

Before the resize, when you insert it in Publisher it will be 17 inches wide on the page. After the resize, when you insert it in Publisher it will be 4.9 inches wide on the page. In both cases, it will look the same in Photoshop, because the number of pixels will be the same.
You unlock resolution from width and height by turning on "Resample Image." You do not want to do this, though; whenever you throw pixels away, quality goes down.


Art, photography, shareware, polyamory, literature, kink: all at http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html
QR
Quercus Robur
Nov 24, 2005
Should have said, saved as a TIFF.

Have to start with a JPEG because that is what my digital camera saves. Could take my pictures in SQ1 mode which would be a smaller starting image, 2048×1536 pixels 738KB 14x10in

Martin

"Quercus Robur" wrote in message
Thanks "tacit" for your patience. I am missing something. I just re-sized my 17" picture in Photoshop to width 2in, Height 1.5in, re-sample off, the result, resolution 1280, and saved. When I inserted in Publisher it had been scaled, by Publisher, to 56% (aprox) and was still too large to fit on an 8×11 page. I am using Publisher 2000. I understand why I should not save a JPEG of a JPEG.

I seem to have created two parts to this thread, so to consolidate. My objective is to print photo quality 8×10 or 5×7 prints for a photo album or as wall prints. I have nine picture frames doweled together to form a montage on a wall and like to change the content each month.
Hope you all have a great Thanksgiving.

Martin
"tacit" wrote in message
In article <r68hf.156722$>,
"Quercus Robur" wrote:

I understand what my problem is. When I re-size, width, height and resolution are locked. So, when I re-size from 17 in width to 4.2 in, the
resolution goes from 144 to 609. And therefore no change in size when inserted into Publisher. I am sure I should know this, but how do I unlock
W, H & R? Thank you for the advice.

Actually, it DOES change when inserted in Publisher. It comes in physically smaller.

Before the resize, when you insert it in Publisher it will be 17 inches wide on the page. After the resize, when you insert it in Publisher it will be 4.9 inches wide on the page. In both cases, it will look the same in Photoshop, because the number of pixels will be the same.
You unlock resolution from width and height by turning on "Resample Image." You do not want to do this, though; whenever you throw pixels away, quality goes down.


Art, photography, shareware, polyamory, literature, kink: all at http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

T
Tacit
Nov 28, 2005
In article
<rjphf.161608$>,
"Quercus Robur" wrote:

Thanks "tacit" for your patience. I am missing something. I just re-sized my 17" picture in Photoshop to width 2in, Height 1.5in, re-sample off, the result, resolution 1280, and saved. When I inserted in Publisher it had been scaled, by Publisher, to 56% (aprox) and was still too large to fit on an 8×11 page. I am using Publisher 2000. I understand why I should not save a JPEG of a JPEG.

Sounds like a problem in Publisher. So what you’re saying, if I understand correctly, is that the image dimensions in Photoshop were 2 inches by 1.5 inches, but when you saved a TIFF and placed in Publisher, the image was not 2 inches by 1.5 inches?


Art, photography, shareware, polyamory, literature, kink: all at http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html
I
iehsmith
Nov 28, 2005
On 11/28/05 9:27 AM, tacit commented:

In article
<rjphf.161608$>,
"Quercus Robur" wrote:

Thanks "tacit" for your patience. I am missing something. I just re-sized my 17" picture in Photoshop to width 2in, Height 1.5in, re-sample off, the result, resolution 1280, and saved. When I inserted in Publisher it had been scaled, by Publisher, to 56% (aprox) and was still too large to fit on an 8×11 page. I am using Publisher 2000. I understand why I should not save a JPEG of a JPEG.

Sounds like a problem in Publisher. So what you’re saying, if I understand correctly, is that the image dimensions in Photoshop were 2 inches by 1.5 inches, but when you saved a TIFF and placed in Publisher, the image was not 2 inches by 1.5 inches?

Sounds like Publisher is assuming and displaying at a much lower resolution. I don’t know anything about Publisher though.

inez
QR
Quercus Robur
Dec 2, 2005
That is correct. The reason I use Publisher is that it gives me very precise control over the position of a picture on the page and, I often add text for description or titles.
Martin

"tacit" wrote in message
In article
<rjphf.161608$>,
"Quercus Robur" wrote:

Thanks "tacit" for your patience. I am missing something. I just re-sized
my 17" picture in Photoshop to width 2in, Height 1.5in, re-sample off, the
result, resolution 1280, and saved. When I inserted in Publisher it had been scaled, by Publisher, to 56% (aprox) and was still too large to fit on
an 8×11 page. I am using Publisher 2000. I understand why I should not save a JPEG of a JPEG.

Sounds like a problem in Publisher. So what you’re saying, if I understand correctly, is that the image dimensions in Photoshop were 2 inches by 1.5 inches, but when you saved a TIFF and placed in Publisher, the image was not 2 inches by 1.5 inches?


Art, photography, shareware, polyamory, literature, kink: all at http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

MacBook Pro 16” Mockups 🔥

– in 4 materials (clay versions included)

– 12 scenes

– 48 MacBook Pro 16″ mockups

– 6000 x 4500 px

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