ARGH!!! Even KINKO’S and OFFICE MAX can’t fix my JAGGIES!!!

Z
Posted By
ZzzapCrafter
Feb 22, 2004
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1045
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18
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Friends,

Who do I blame?

I’ve created a page of business cards in Photoshop from scratch at 300 dpi. I took it to both Kinko’s and an Office Max Copy Center, and at both places it printed out of their printers and copiers with visibly jagged edges. The aliasing was evident everywhere, in both the raster graphic elements and the vector fonts. It seems to be the worst on horizontal lines, which print with sharp zig-zagging edges. Although I’m more accustomed to designing graphics for tv and computer screens, I believe I have a fairly good handle on printing considerations like the relationship between image size and resolution. I’ve apparently missed something, however.

I suspect the problem lies with me, but those copy store bumpkins make such tempting targets…

Thank you so much for your insight.

ZAP

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H
Ho
Feb 22, 2004
Did Kinko’s have the same fonts you used? Did they print a native PSD file with the text layers intact? Or did they rasterize everything before it went to the printer? Rasterized fonts and line art should probably be closer to 600dpi for laser printers, and upwards of 1200dpi for film output.
RL
Robert_Levine
Feb 22, 2004
What kind of file did you bring them? If you have PS 6.0 or later, save it as a PDF with fonts embedded, vector retained but without layers.

Bob
D
Daverj
Feb 22, 2004
Back when I had a 300 dpi laser printer you could see jaggies on text (when you looked close). My current 1200 dpi one looks fine.
Z
ZzzapCrafter
Feb 22, 2004
Thanks for the suggestions, guys.
You’ve helped me to narrow my question down.

Kinko’s and Office Max tried both a PDF and a PSD. Rob, you reminded me that I had stupidly neglected to embed the fonts–HOWEVER–this would have done nothing to help the jaggies that were also evident on the raster elements of my image file.

I cannot confirm for sure how the text would have printed had the fonts been embedded. So, assuming these would have looked crisp, that leaves us with the raster elements.

Basically what I’m hearing from you folks is that 300 dpi is insufficient for a high-quality laser-printed document when working with raster images. I’m definitely surprised to hear that, as I have seen 300 dpi recommended for this sort of project over and over again. I have also designed 300 dpi raster graphics for printing on VHS and DVD packaging and surfaces, and they never come back from the duplication house with zig-zagging edges like the ones on my business cards. So when you see high-quality documents with photographic (not-vector) elements, does that mean they were made/captured at a massive dpi like 1200?

Well, thanks for the help.

ZAP
RL
Robert_Levine
Feb 22, 2004
Basically what I’m hearing from you folks is that 300 dpi is insufficient for a high-quality laser-printed document

No, you’re not hearing that at all. 300 dpi is fine for all but the highest end press output.

Bob
P
Phosphor
Feb 22, 2004
Native resolution for most laser printers like you’ll find in Kinko’s is almost always 400 dpi for color machines, 600 dpi for monochrome (black only).

Even at a 300ppi file resolution, if you’re getting really noticable aliasing even in photographic style images printed from a good laser printer, something’s wrong somewhere.

It’s hard to determine where the problem might be without being able to troubleshoot Kinko’s workflow, in person, with a file I know will output properly on the type of equipment they use.
Z
ZzzapCrafter
Feb 22, 2004
Is it possible that my 300 dpi image is somehow being up-scaled (and distorted) by a higher resolution printer?

Phosphor, the images on my business card are not photographic, it’s a simple line drawing and text. Do you still think that rasterized 300 dpi text should look smooth?

I’m having trouble embedding fonts in my document within Photoshop (the option is greyed-out). Are some fonts un-embeddable?

Thanks a lot, fellas.
RL
Robert_Levine
Feb 22, 2004
Are some fonts un-embeddable?

Yes, and I avoid them like the plague.

Bob
JS
John_Slate
Feb 23, 2004
ARGH!!! Even KINKO’S and OFFICE MAX can’t fix my JAGGIES!!!

Kind of like saying "ARGH!!! Even DIXIE CUPS don’t provide the elegance I require for my formal dinner party!!!"
RW
Rene_Walling
Feb 23, 2004
…it’s a simple line drawing…

Aaah, that explains some of you problems. Let me make an assumption here, your file is saved in greyscale mode right? If that is the case, the printer is trying to screen the image. The fact that you see "jaggies" on horizontal lines tell us this is not a resolution problem. The solution would be to save the file in bitmap mode (at which point, if you have the correct resolution, it doesn’t matter if you rasterize the text or not)
Make sure the two following conditions are met and you should be OK:

1) have your image at the _exact_ resolution of the printer that will be used to output it.

2) Make sure the image is in bitmap mode.
H
Ho
Feb 23, 2004
If your area can support an Office Max and a Kinko’s, then you should be able to find either a service bureau or a good independent copy/print shop. There you will (should) find people who are more knowledgeable, not to mention helpful. Given that Kinko’s charges for the air you breathe while you’re in there, the prices should be at least comparable.
V
viol8ion
Feb 23, 2004
not photographic, it’s a simple line drawing and text

If it is line art, then 600 or even 1200PPI is what you want, not 300. 240 – 300 is fine for photographic images.
Z
ZzzapCrafter
Feb 24, 2004
THANK YOU RENE!!!

NOW we’re getting somewhere! I knew there was something weird going on beyond dpi’s. Now I just need to clarify a few of the suggestions that you and all of my new graphic designing friends have come up with…

When you state that the printer is screening the image, does that mean that the whole image is getting reduced to one shade of black? If so, would they have used a different printing process had I brought them artwork which contained shades of grey? In your opinion, could printing without screening (if this is possible) translate the clean look of the anti-aliased edges in my original image to a print?

You were correct in that my file was not saved in bitmap mode. I have converted it using a target output of 1200 dpi and a variety of "method" settings (which one do you recommend?), and they naturally resulted in very jagged-looking images. I take it that this is due to the lower resolution of a computer screen compared to print, and I just have to trust that it will look smooth when printed..?

You suggest matching my image resolution to the actual dpi of whatever printer I am using (which I’ll assume for the sake of argument is 1200). From a technical standpoint this would seem to make perfect sense. Unfortunately, I’m just not sure if my CPU is up to the challenge. I designed my logo with the (wrong) assumtion that an 11-inch-wide, 300 dpi original would be large enough for all my print needs (I’m not planning to do any billboards any time soon). Unfortunately, at 1200 dpi, it doesn’t even fill a business card, although at 1023 dpi it fits perfectly. I’ve heard that using an even multiple of one’s printer resolution helps to ensure good prints, so in this case I think I’m going to try, as viol8tion suggests, a 600 dpi print (unless one of you would like to argue for the 1023 dpi option).

Thanks for everything guys, I’ve learned quite a bit in the past few days.

ZAP
Z
ZzzapCrafter
Feb 24, 2004
Ho,

Thanks for the tip. While Kinko’s can certainly charge an arm and a leg for their services, I am proud to have found that by using their paper-cutter myself instead of paying out the ying yang for cuts, I was able to purchase 30 business cards for a grand total of 64 cents.

ZAP
Z
ZzzapCrafter
Feb 24, 2004
John,

You’ve got a point about the title of my thread. Although, compared to the 7-year-old inkjets that a lot of folks in this forum seem to be struggling with, I find that a Kinko’s laser-printer works pretty well. (Besides, sometimes it takes a little drama to get an opinionated fella like you interested in a thread…) 😉

ZAP
RW
Rene_Walling
Feb 24, 2004
When you state that the printer is screening the image, does that mean that the whole image is getting reduced to one shade of black? If so, would they have used a different printing process had I brought them artwork which contained shades of grey?

All printers use only black ink. To achieve the illusion of shades of grey, they use what is called halftone screening. This is the pattern of dots you see when looking at a printer image with a magnifying glass. It’s real obvious in newspaper photographs.

The jaggies you see on horizontal lines come from the way the printer interprets a black horizontal line on a white background in a greyscale file.

Having an image a bitmap mode (at the correct resolution) bypasses the halftone screening built into the printer resulting in sharp lines and text

I have converted it using a target output of 1200 dpi and a variety of "method" settings (which one do you recommend?), and they naturally resulted in very jagged-looking images. I take it that this is due to the lower resolution of a computer screen compared to print, and I just have to trust that it will look smooth when printed..?

No, if the bitmap mode image doesn’t look smooth on the screen (at a 100% of course), it will not look smooth once printed.

The best conversion method depends on the kind of image you have and the result you want. Assuming everything is line art, the 50% threshold is probably your best bet. Just remeber, what it looks like o the screen (at 100%) is exactly how it will print.
TL
Tim_Lookingbill
Feb 25, 2004
If the line drawing is in pencil it will have to be halftone screen from grayscale mode to retain the nuance of the drawing. Depending on the grayness of the pencil drawing, bitmapping will also introduce "crumpled"and "jaggy" looking lines.

However ink drawings without fine line crosshatching or very clean dark lined pencil renderings will look better when bitmapped.
DS
Dave Simpson
Feb 25, 2004
Can I make a SUPER simple suggestion? Save your PSD file as a 12-quality JPEG. Then send it to an online printing business. I happen to use www.overnightprints.com and they charge 39 bucks for 1000 matte or glossy. No this is not an advertisement for them. I have no affiliation. But you CAN see a copy of my business card on my web page at
http://www.rnd-solutions.com/graphicdesign.html and click the business card "Example" button. That is PRECISELY what my printed card looks like. —
Dave Simpson
RND Solutions – Creative Graphic Design

http://www.rnd-solutions.com

wrote in message
Friends,

Who do I blame?

I’ve created a page of business cards in Photoshop from scratch at 300
dpi. I took it to both Kinko’s and an Office Max Copy Center, and at both places it printed out of their printers and copiers with visibly jagged edges. The aliasing was evident everywhere, in both the raster graphic elements and the vector fonts. It seems to be the worst on horizontal lines, which print with sharp zig-zagging edges. Although I’m more accustomed to designing graphics for tv and computer screens, I believe I have a fairly good handle on printing considerations like the relationship between image size and resolution. I’ve apparently missed something, however.
I suspect the problem lies with me, but those copy store bumpkins make
such tempting targets…
Thank you so much for your insight.

ZAP

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