RTFM

But then we’d miss out on the condescending remarks that jerks like you leave. 😉

"screwface" wrote in message

Newbies to photoshop should RTFM before posting stupid questions here. Anyone else agree?

In article , says…

Newbies to photoshop should RTFM before posting stupid questions here. Anyone else agree?

There are no stupid questions…
only stupid people like you.

screwface wrote:

Newbies to photoshop should RTFM before posting stupid questions here. Anyone else agree?

I disagree completly, and would suggest that pre-emtive flames such as yours, by adding an intimidating tone to the mix, diminish the value of this group that I and others are trying to improve. Most problems seem trivial and silly once you know the answer – this should not deter people from using this group to ask questions as they see fit.

Some people may not have access to a manual or, having a manual, may not know where to look for their answer. Many visually oriented people simply can’t focus on technical material in a book and seek help for their specific problems here. So be it.

BTW there will always be people who, like the originator of this thread, who post anonymously in order to amuse themselves by intimidating people. The best answer to this is to ignore such people, but this can be hard when a cutting remark seems to be publicly directed at you alone.

Another answer is moderated groups. People with questions about curves, and color correction in general, may post to the moderated yahoo curvemeister group with no fear of flames, and no fear that your email address will get in the hands of spammers. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Curvemeister/

—
Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

On Mon, 10 May 2004 17:59:24 GMT, "Mike Russell" scribbled:

screwface wrote:

Newbies to photoshop should RTFM before posting stupid questions here. Anyone else agree?

I disagree completly, and would suggest that pre-emtive flames such as yours, by adding an intimidating tone to the mix, diminish the value of this group that I and others are trying to improve. Most problems seem trivial and silly once you know the answer – this should not deter people from using this group to ask questions as they see fit.

And it shouldn’t deter people from replying as they see fit.

Some people may not have access to a manual or, having a manual, may not

Who wouldn’t have access to a manual…. hmmm….
Number one on the list would be pirates, and who the fuck cares about helping thieves?
So who else… someone in a corporate environment who has a license but no manual? They can’t press F1 for help?

So, who really doesn’t have access to the manual or help files?

know where to look for their answer. Many visually oriented people simply can’t focus on technical material in a book and seek help for their specific problems here. So be it.

And many people seeing someone ask a moronic question that can either be answered by 5 minutes in the help files or 10 minutes of experimentation decide to laugh. So be it.

BTW there will always be people who, like the originator of this thread, who post anonymously in order to amuse themselves by intimidating people. The

Suggesting people read the fucking manual is intimidating?

best answer to this is to ignore such people, but this can be hard when a cutting remark seems to be publicly directed at you alone.

He didn’t post anonymously, his IP address is readily visible. He’s posting from Australia if you were interested.

Another answer is moderated groups. People with questions about curves, and color correction in general, may post to the moderated yahoo curvemeister group with no fear of flames, and no fear that your email address will get in the hands of spammers. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Curvemeister/

Good old ad filled, slower than shit Yahoo groups. And if you think the spammers aren’t culling email addresses from web sites, you’re delusional.

"screwface" wrote in message

Newbies to photoshop should RTFM before posting stupid questions here. Anyone else agree?

And you immediately mark there questions as stupid and presume they haven’t read the manual. There might be things that you think are clearly explained in the manual but that a new user does not understand.
I presume that you are born with full knowledge of photoshop and that you never needed any help? After all, all the tools and buttons are explained in the manual.

Why always this newbie bashing?

Voivod wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2004 17:59:24 GMT, "Mike Russell" scribbled:

screwface wrote:

Newbies to photoshop should RTFM before posting stupid questions here. Anyone else agree?

I disagree completly, and would suggest that pre-emtive flames such as yours, by adding an intimidating tone to the mix, diminish the value of this group that I and others are trying to improve. Most problems seem trivial and silly once you know the answer – this should not deter people from using this group to ask questions as they see fit.

And it shouldn’t deter people from replying as they see fit.

And …?

Some people may not have access to a manual or, having a manual, may not

Who wouldn’t have access to a manual…. hmmm….
Number one on the list would be pirates, and who the fuck cares about helping thieves?
So who else… someone in a corporate environment who has a license but no manual? They can’t press F1 for help?

Yes, that’s one common reason for not having the manual. Site licenses normally do not provide manuals, as you’re aware. Others press F1, but don’t get anywhere with the problem at hand, and so post here.

So, who really doesn’t have access to the manual or help files?

know where to look for their answer. Many visually oriented people simply can’t focus on technical material in a book and seek help for their specific problems here. So be it.

And many people seeing someone ask a moronic question that can either be answered by 5 minutes in the help files or 10 minutes of experimentation decide to laugh. So be it.

You have a point. I often wonder, for example, why people will ask "what happens if I click the blah-de-blah box", then wait three days for an answer, instead of just clicking the box. But laughing is one thing, flaming another. The use of abusive language and general behavior in this group is an indulgence that cannot be defended, IMHO.

BTW there will always be people who, like the originator of this thread, who post anonymously in order to amuse themselves by intimidating people. The

Suggesting people read the fucking manual is intimidating?

You got it. Abusive language that does not address someone’s problem is intimidating.

best answer to this is to ignore such people, but this can be hard when a cutting remark seems to be publicly directed at you alone.

He didn’t post anonymously, his IP address is readily visible. He’s posting from Australia if you were interested.

The IP has nothing to do with the physical location of the person. BTW, anonymity is an important requirement for flaming. I don’t think many flamers would post the way they do if their family and friends knew what they were saying here.

Another answer is moderated groups. People with questions about curves, and color correction in general, may post to the moderated yahoo curvemeister group with no fear of flames, and no fear that your email address will get in the hands of spammers.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Curvemeister/

Good old ad filled, slower than shit Yahoo groups. And if you think the spammers aren’t culling email addresses from web sites, you’re delusional.

Yes there are adds, but for some of us the price of seeing ads flit by is small compared to getting flamed 🙂 Certain people have an almost paranoid fear of being flamed, and I know of at least two very talented ex-contributors who stopped participating here for just that reason. And yes, I do think Yahoo is trustworthy.
—

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

screwface wrote:

Newbies to photoshop should RTFM before posting stupid questions here. Anyone else agree?

Yes. Seldom, if ever, do people learn anything in usenet. You’ll see those who asks questions, come back later and ask the same identical questions again and again.

🙂

Uni

On Mon, 10 May 2004 18:58:59 GMT, "Mike Russell" scribbled:

Voivod wrote:

On Mon, 10 May 2004 17:59:24 GMT, "Mike Russell" scribbled:

screwface wrote:

Newbies to photoshop should RTFM before posting stupid questions here. Anyone else agree?

I disagree completly, and would suggest that pre-emtive flames such as yours, by adding an intimidating tone to the mix, diminish the value of this group that I and others are trying to improve. Most problems seem trivial and silly once you know the answer – this should not deter people from using this group to ask questions as they see fit.

And it shouldn’t deter people from replying as they see fit.

And …?

And… that means if someone wants to call someone else a fuckwit, then that’s just as acceptable. I.e. "replying as they see fit".

Some people may not have access to a manual or, having a manual, may not

Who wouldn’t have access to a manual…. hmmm….
Number one on the list would be pirates, and who the fuck cares about helping thieves?
So who else… someone in a corporate environment who has a license but no manual? They can’t press F1 for help?

Yes, that’s one common reason for not having the manual. Site licenses normally do not provide manuals, as you’re aware. Others press F1, but don’t get anywhere with the problem at hand, and so post here.

Great, so now we’re dealing with someone who’s at work and they’ve either convinced their boss they actually know something about Photoshop (we are talking about basic questions here, not complicated matters) or they’re fucking off and playing with an application that’s not part of their job…. I see no reason to help someone who has either lied to their boss or is just slacking off.

So, who really doesn’t have access to the manual or help files?

No other options? So it’s either thieves, liars or slackers who don’t have the manual?

know where to look for their answer. Many visually oriented people simply can’t focus on technical material in a book and seek help for their specific problems here. So be it.

And many people seeing someone ask a moronic question that can either be answered by 5 minutes in the help files or 10 minutes of experimentation decide to laugh. So be it.

You have a point. I often wonder, for example, why people will ask "what happens if I click the blah-de-blah box", then wait three days for an answer, instead of just clicking the box. But laughing is one thing, flaming another. The use of abusive language and general behavior in this group is an indulgence that cannot be defended, IMHO.

Sure it can, it’s called the freedom of speech. Maybe it’s not a protected right wherever it is you’re from but it is here.

BTW there will always be people who, like the originator of this thread, who post anonymously in order to amuse themselves by intimidating people. The

Suggesting people read the fucking manual is intimidating?

You got it. Abusive language that does not address someone’s problem is intimidating.

Wow, so do you cry when people make loud noises too?

BTW, "Read the Fucking Manual" apart from being a long standing computer users term DOES address the majority of the idiotic questions being asked.

best answer to this is to ignore such people, but this can be hard when a cutting remark seems to be publicly directed at you alone.

He didn’t post anonymously, his IP address is readily visible. He’s posting from Australia if you were interested.

The IP has nothing to do with the physical location of the person. BTW,

In many, actually most since the commercial services almost all mask the users IP address, it does. Without doing too much digging you’re a Fraudigy user from PacBell using a DSL connection. So, west coast or the south west more than likely.

anonymity is an important requirement for flaming. I don’t think many flamers would post the way they do if their family and friends knew what they were saying here.

I would. But then, I’m real, this is me, this is the me you’d meet in a bar or on the street.

Another answer is moderated groups. People with questions about curves, and color correction in general, may post to the moderated yahoo curvemeister group with no fear of flames, and no fear that your email address will get in the hands of spammers.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Curvemeister/

Good old ad filled, slower than shit Yahoo groups. And if you think the spammers aren’t culling email addresses from web sites, you’re delusional.

Yes there are adds, but for some of us the price of seeing ads flit by is small compared to getting flamed 🙂 Certain people have an almost paranoid

Wow, so do you cry when people make loud noises too?

fear of being flamed, and I know of at least two very talented ex-contributors who stopped participating here for just that reason. And yes, I do think Yahoo is trustworthy.

I have no pity for crybabies who’s ultra sensitive sensibilities have been upset.

Voivod wrote:
….

I have no pity for crybabies who’s ultra sensitive sensibilities have been upset.

There are those who have pity for you, Vovoid. Doubly so if you are this way in real life.
—

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

On Mon, 10 May 2004 19:39:26 GMT, "Mike Russell" scribbled:

Voivod wrote:
…

I have no pity for crybabies who’s ultra sensitive sensibilities have been upset.

There are those who have pity for you, Vovoid. Doubly so if you are this way in real life.

Hurrah for them!

Uni wrote:

screwface wrote:

Newbies to photoshop should RTFM before posting stupid questions here. Anyone else agree?

Yes. Seldom, if ever, do people learn anything in usenet. You’ll see those who asks questions, come back later and ask the same identical questions again and again.

🙂

Uni

I beg to differ, I am by no means a PS expert, but have learnt a lot from the more co-operative members of this group. Thanks! you know who you are 🙂

Maze
—
Life is short and hard, like a bodybuilding Elf

On Mon, 10 May 2004 14:25:11 GMT, "She" wrote:

But then we’d miss out on the condescending remarks that jerks like you leave. 😉

First rule of usenet… "DON’T FEED THE TROLLS". Just killfile them and move on!
Drifter
"I’ve been here, I’ve been there…"

There are no stupid questions…
only stupid people like you.

First rule of usenet… "DON’T FEED THE TROLLS". Just killfile them and move on!

Drifter
"I’ve been here, I’ve been there…"

I disagree completly

—>snip<—

First rule of usenet… "DON’T FEED THE TROLLS". Just killfile them and move on!

Drifter
"I’ve been here, I’ve been there…"

—snip—-

Some people may not have access to a manual or, having a manual, may

—snip—

Do I need to say it again… I guess so since this is so much fun

First rule of usenet… "DON’T FEED THE TROLLS". Just killfile them and move on!

Drifter
"I’ve been here, I’ve been there…"

Why always this newbie bashing?

First rule of usenet… "DON’T FEED THE TROLLS". Just killfile them and move on!
Drifter
"I’ve been here, I’ve been there…"

Drifter wrote:

I disagree completly

—>snip<—

First rule of usenet… "DON’T FEED THE TROLLS". Just killfile them and move on!

Drifter
"I’ve been here, I’ve been there…"

Um – drifter – we heard you, OK. No need to pepper the newsgroup with repeated warnings.
—

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

On Mon, 10 May 2004 20:20:01 -0400, Drifter
scribbled:

I disagree completly

—>snip<—

First rule of usenet… "DON’T FEED THE TROLLS". Just killfile them and move on!

The second rule of usenet, spamming will get your account nuked.

On Mon, 10 May 2004 20:21:13 -0400, Drifter
scribbled:

X-Complaints-To:

Spam complaint sent.

On Tue, 11 May 2004 00:26:10 GMT, "Mike Russell" wrote:

Drifter wrote:

I disagree completly

—>snip<—

First rule of usenet… "DON’T FEED THE TROLLS". Just killfile them and move on!

Drifter
"I’ve been here, I’ve been there…"

Um – drifter – we heard you, OK. No need to pepper the newsgroup with repeated warnings.

Actually there DOES seem to be a need. I’ve been lurking for a little while and it’s absolutely amazing how people keep taking the bait, hook-line-and-sinker <grin>.

Drifter
"I’ve been here, I’ve been there…"

"E.D." wrote in message

"screwface" wrote in message

Newbies to photoshop should RTFM before posting stupid questions here. Anyone else agree?

And you immediately mark there questions as stupid and presume they

haven’t

read the manual. There might be things that you think are clearly

explained

in the manual but that a new user does not understand.
I presume that you are born with full knowledge of photoshop and that you never needed any help? After all, all the tools and buttons are explained

in

the manual.

Why always this newbie bashing?

There is newbie and newbie.
Examples of newbie questions
1) Can you remove red eyes with Photoshop?
2) I searched "red eyes" in the manual and couldn’t find any helpful info.
3) There is no help in the manual and a tutorial I found through Google
shows how to use the red channel, I am wondering if there is an easier way. because…

Guess what the winning number is and who is going to get flamed?

Stephan

In article ,
says…

On Mon, 10 May 2004 17:59:24 GMT, "Mike Russell" scribbled:

screwface wrote:

[SNIP]

Some people may not have access to a manual or, having a manual, may not

Who wouldn’t have access to a manual…. hmmm….
Number one on the list would be pirates, and who the fuck cares about helping thieves?
So who else… someone in a corporate environment who has a license but no manual? They can’t press F1 for help?

Interesting observation – too bad it is totally wrong. CS Upgrade doesn’t ship with a manual. PS 7’s manual doesn’t have many of the features of PS-CS. Help files go only so far and are usually incomplete. A recent post of mine posing a question, followed by a rapid, correct, and succinct answer solved my problem. THAT is what the Usenet is all about.

So, who really doesn’t have access to the manual or help files?

[SNIP]

Hunt, thankful that there are those, who care about helping others in the NG!

On 11 May 2004 20:19:44 GMT, (Hunt) scribbled:

THAT is what the Usenet is all about.

THAT is not a decision you get to make.

On Tue, 11 May 2004 22:12:37 GMT, Voivod wrote:

On 11 May 2004 20:19:44 GMT, (Hunt) scribbled:

THAT is what the Usenet is all about.

THAT is not a decision you get to make.

With all due respect. Neither do you.
Yes, they should read the manual. Sometimes that’s not possible. Every situation is different but all of us are imperfect. Civility is what keeps (what passes for) civilization functioning. Help if you can. Advise if you will. But you degrade yourself by losing your temper. I know.
RG

"Voivod" wrote in message

On Mon, 10 May 2004 20:21:13 -0400, Drifter
scribbled:

X-Complaints-To:

Spam complaint sent.

Relax, bitch.

wrote:

On Tue, 11 May 2004 22:12:37 GMT, Voivod wrote:

On 11 May 2004 20:19:44 GMT, (Hunt) scribbled:

THAT is what the Usenet is all about.

THAT is not a decision you get to make.

With all due respect. Neither do you.
Yes, they should read the manual. Sometimes that’s not possible. Every situation is different but all of us are imperfect. Civility is what keeps (what passes for) civilization functioning. Help if you can. Advise if you will. But you degrade yourself by losing your temper. I know.
RG

Beware. that "sucking sound" is the voivod vortex. Do not try to swim directly away from the center – swim at an angle to the current. Avoid answering with more words than you are responding to and you should be OK.

Whew – that was close!
—

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

On Wed, 12 May 2004 02:19:51 GMT, "Mike Russell" wrote:

Beware. that "sucking sound" is the voivod vortex. Do not try to swim directly away from the center – swim at an angle to the current. Avoid answering with more words than you are responding to and you should be OK.
Whew – that was close!

Hi. I was reading this thread and got a little too close. Now I’m feeling a bit nauseous. What should I do?

Frederic Banaszak wrote:

On Wed, 12 May 2004 02:19:51 GMT, "Mike Russell" wrote:

Beware. that "sucking sound" is the voivod vortex. Do not try to swim directly away from the center – swim at an angle to the current. Avoid answering with more words than you are responding to and you should be OK.

Whew – that was close!

Hi. I was reading this thread and got a little too close. Now I’m feeling a bit nauseous. What should I do?

If you are clear headed enough to make that post you should be back to normal in a few hours. Meantime I’d suggest something soothing like playing with the gradient editor, or using the clone tool to make lots of copies of a scanned 20 dollar bill..
—

Mike Russell
www.geigy.2y.net

In article , says…

On Tue, 11 May 2004 22:12:37 GMT, Voivod wrote:

On 11 May 2004 20:19:44 GMT, (Hunt) scribbled:

THAT is what the Usenet is all about.

THAT is not a decision you get to make.

With all due respect. Neither do you.
Yes, they should read the manual. Sometimes that’s not possible. Every situation is different but all of us are imperfect. Civility is what keeps (what passes for) civilization functioning. Help if you can. Advise if you will. But you degrade yourself by losing your temper. I know.
RG

My temper was never lost. I was making an emphasis on the decisions that the poster had made – nothing more. Any degredation was in your mind.

Hunt

On Wed, 12 May 2004 00:27:27 GMT, scribbled:

On Tue, 11 May 2004 22:12:37 GMT, Voivod wrote:

On 11 May 2004 20:19:44 GMT, (Hunt) scribbled:

THAT is what the Usenet is all about.

THAT is not a decision you get to make.

With all due respect. Neither do you.

Actually, since I’m NOT stating what usenet is I’m NOT trying to make a decision for everyone else in the way you are. Do we need to cover the logic behind why someone can’t say "THAT is what the Usenet is all about." with any authority?

Yes, they should read the manual. Sometimes that’s not possible. Every

The only people without access to the help files are those pirates who’ve downloaded a version with them stripped out. I see no reason to help thieves.

situation is different but all of us are imperfect. Civility is what keeps (what passes for) civilization functioning. Help if you can.

Civility is what keep stupid people stupid.

Advise if you will. But you degrade yourself by losing your temper. I know.
RG

On Mon, 10 May 2004 14:25:11 GMT, "She" wrote:

But then we’d miss out on the condescending remarks that jerks like you leave. 😉

I dont see how my post is in any way condescending.

On Mon, 10 May 2004 17:59:24 GMT, "Mike Russell" wrote:

I disagree completly, and would suggest that pre-emtive flames such as yours, by adding an intimidating tone to the mix, diminish the value of this group that I and others are trying to improve.

How is my post a flame?

Most problems seem trivial
and silly once you know the answer – this should not deter people from using this group to ask questions as they see fit.

Most of the questions have already been answered in previous posts. A simple search will often answer their questions.

Some people may not have access to a manual or, having a manual, may not know where to look for their answer.

The ‘HELP’ menu will answer 95% of the questions i see here.

BTW there will always be people who, like the originator of this thread, who post anonymously in order to amuse themselves by intimidating people.

I post anonymously to avoid spam, my intention with this post was not to intimidate people.

in article 0qPnc.65762$, Mike Russell at
wrote on 05/10/2004 10:59 AM:

screwface wrote:

Newbies to photoshop should RTFM before posting stupid questions here.

I disagree completly, and would suggest that pre-emtive flames such as yours, by adding an intimidating tone to the mix, diminish the value of this group that I and others are trying to improve.

The newsgroup is used as each person decides. There is no "value" that can be added to the newsgroup. Each person decides how they will use the newsgroup and what "value" it has for them.

You and your imaginary friends can’t add value to the "newsgroup".

Most problems seem trivial
and silly once you know the answer – this should not deter people from using this group to ask questions as they see fit.

Your need to answer questions asked by lazy people is your own personal need. It is not everyone’s need. Also your needs should not deter other people from using the newsgroup as they see fit.

Some people may not have access to a manual or, having a manual, may not know where to look for their answer. Many visually oriented people simply can’t focus on technical material in a book and seek help for their specific problems here.

Some people don’t want to be a "reference book" for lazy people. Maybe you do, but that should not deter other people from NOT being that.

BTW there will always be people who, like the originator of this thread, who post anonymously in order to amuse themselves by intimidating people.

And there will be people like you that cry about it.

The
best answer to this is to ignore such people…

Yes, but you can’t quite do that, can you. You have to come into the newsgroup
and post your silly messages telling other people how to post and what they should ignore, all the while you do not follow your own advice.

but this can be hard when a
cutting remark seems to be publicly directed at you alone.

Thus you are not able to control yourself and thus you post your silly messages.

Another answer is moderated groups.

Not going to happen here, bud.

—

On Thu, 13 May 2004 09:37:15 -0700, Carol J <**.com> wrote:

The newsgroup is used as each person decides. There is no "value" that can be added to the newsgroup. Each person decides how they will use the newsgroup and what "value" it has for them.

Mike, you’ve been pulling that same worn out bullshit for years to excuse your trolling.

in article , howldog at
wrote on 05/13/2004 9:56 AM:

On Thu, 13 May 2004 09:37:15 -0700, Carol J <**.com> wrote:

The newsgroup is used as each person decides. There is no "value" that can be added to the newsgroup. Each person decides how they will use the newsgroup and what "value" it has for them.

you’ve been pulling that same worn out bullshit for years

It is still the truth … does not matter who came up with it.

—

On Thu, 13 May 2004 10:08:30 -0700, Carol J <**.com> wrote:

in article , howldog at
wrote on 05/13/2004 9:56 AM:

On Thu, 13 May 2004 09:37:15 -0700, Carol J <**.com> wrote:

The newsgroup is used as each person decides. There is no "value" that can be added to the newsgroup. Each person decides how they will use the newsgroup and what "value" it has for them.

you’ve been pulling that same worn out bullshit for years

It is still the truth … does not matter who came up with it.

LOL! you conveniently strip out the word "Mike" in your reply. as if anyone who is paying attention has any doubts. Once a troll, I guess always a troll.

in article , howldog at
wrote on 05/13/2004 10:29 AM:

I conveniently put in the word "Mike" so "Mike" will like me.

How sweet.

"Carol J" <**.com> wrote in message
news:BCC9066A.FF084%**.com…

in article , howldog at
wrote on 05/13/2004 10:29 AM:

I conveniently put in the word "Mike" so "Mike" will like me.

How sweet.

Yep, that’s Mikey, no doubt about it.

Stephan