Newbie confused about color space, outside printing and size of file

"louise" wrote in message

I’m trying to work out the "right" way to handle color profiles in Photoshop and prepare for outside printing,

Win XP Pro and Photoshop 7

I’m using a Sony CRT – I have icm files for this monitor. Should I use the Sony icm for my color setting? And if so, can I just choose it in PS or do I have to load it beforehand?

Only when the monitor is brand new is the supplied profile any where close to correct. Generate your own profile with Adobe Gamma (if that is all you can afford). Adobe Gamma will cause Adobe Gamma Loader to install the generated profile during startup of the computer.

What working space should I use?

Adobe RGB

I’m using tiff files I created by scanning 35mm negatives 24 bit and high resolution.

That is three channels at 8 bits each.

I open the file in PS

What color profile do I use while I’m working on the file?

What profile did the scanner imbed?

Do I "assign" this color profile or do I "convert" to this color profile?

If it isn’t Adobe RGB, you convert it to Adobe Gamma.

When I’m finished editing, do I "assign" or "convert" to srgb (which is what is wanted by the outside printer)?

Don’t know, I do my own printing. I created a profile for my printer, and that is what I use for printing. It isn’t necessary to save such a file with that profile imbedded.

After I do all this, sometimes I have a tiff file which is just under 1 gig – I can’t even fit this on a cd. How do I make it smaller (no more than 400mb) and lose the least detail etc?

You can’t. A 1gb file Tiff is extremely large for a scan of a 35mm negative. How many pixels are you getting from the negative, and how big of a print do you need?
Jim

Thanks for any and all recommendations.

Louise

Louise writes …

I’m using a Sony CRT – I have icm files for this monitor. Should I use the Sony icm for my color setting?
can I just choose it in PS or do I have to load it beforehand?

If you created the profile with Adobe Gamma or with a hardware solution like Spyder or Eye-One then it will automatically get assigned as the default monitor profile. If you didn’t create it then it’s probably not very accurate but you can assign it a couple of ways. Let us know if that’s the case and we can outline the steps.

What working space should I use?
I’m using tiff files I created by scanning 35mm negatives 24 bit and high resolution

For film scans I prefer using either Ektaspace or AdobeRGB for my ‘working space’ but since you are ending up with sRGB for your printing I’d say go ahead and use sRGB, since you can re-scan later if you really need a wider space. The easiest way to set up your working space is to do Edit – Color Settings and in the top drop-down for ‘settings’ pick ‘web graphics defaults’ to get sRGB or pick ‘US Prepress Defaults’ to get AdobeRBG … while you’re here in this dialog box under ‘working spaces: RGB’ open the drop down and scroll to the top and look for ‘monitor RGB’ and see if it has picked up your Sony monitor profile as the default. But don’t change this box, just look at the monitor profile assignment.

What color profile do I use while I’m working on the file?

Typically the working space, here probably sRGB as described above.

Do I "assign" this color profile or do I "convert" to this color profile?

Convert … actually most scanners I’ve used let you do this when you scan, if you want to save a step.

When I’m finished editing, do I "assign" or "convert" to srgb (which is what is wanted by the outside printer)?

If you are already using sRGB then you are good to go. If you used something else like AdobeRGB then make a copy and do Image – Mode – Convert to Profile and pick sRGB as the Destination Space profile.

sometimes I have a tiff file which is
just under 1 gig – I can’t even fit this on a cd.

This doesn’t seem possible to me with 35 mm film and a flat file (even with 6×7 cm film, which is 400% larger, I only get about 280 MB for 8 bit scans … usually 35 mm is about 55 MB or so) so I assume you’ve added many layers or something? At any rate, flatten the layers and see what the size is now …

How do I make it smaller (no more than 400mb) and lose the least detail etc?

The question here is ‘what size are your prints’ and ‘what resolution in ppi does the printer want’? Flatten it first then do Image – Image Size and turn off ‘resample image’ and plug in say 300 for ‘resolution’ with it set to ‘pixels/inch’ … this will tell you how big you can print with ‘width’ and ‘height’ in inches … probably 12 x 18" or so at 300 ppi if you scanned at 4,000 dpi. If you want to make a larger or smaller print you’d just resample it, turn on ‘resample’ and plug in the new resolution and either width or height … dunno if this was in V7 but you’d use ‘bicubic sharper’ for a reduction in size and ‘bicubic smoother’ for an increase in size (probably new to CS, not sure). Then sharpen after the resize and send it out for printing.

Check with the print shop to see if the 300 ppi is what they want before doing this, but that should be close.

Bill

Jim writes …

If it isn’t Adobe RGB, you convert it to Adobe Gamma

Jim knows this stuff well so I’m pretty sure that instead of "Adobe Gamma" (a monitor cal utility) he meant to type "Adobe RGB" … right Jim?

"Bill Hilton" wrote in message

Jim writes …

If it isn’t Adobe RGB, you convert it to Adobe Gamma

Jim knows this stuff well so I’m pretty sure that instead of "Adobe Gamma" (a monitor cal utility) he meant to type "Adobe RGB" … right Jim?

Yes. Sorry about the mistake.
Jim

Jim wrote:

"louise" wrote in message

I’m trying to work out the "right" way to handle color profiles in Photoshop and prepare for outside printing,

Win XP Pro and Photoshop 7

I’m using a Sony CRT – I have icm files for this monitor. Should I use the Sony icm for my color setting? And if so, can I just choose it in PS or do I have to load it beforehand?

Only when the monitor is brand new is the supplied profile any where close to correct. Generate your own profile with Adobe Gamma (if that is all you can afford). Adobe Gamma will cause Adobe Gamma Loader to install the generated profile during startup of the computer.

What working space should I use?

Adobe RGB

I’m using tiff files I created by scanning 35mm negatives 24 bit and high resolution.

That is three channels at 8 bits each.

I open the file in PS

What color profile do I use while I’m working on the file?

What profile did the scanner imbed?

Do I "assign" this color profile or do I "convert" to this color profile?

If it isn’t Adobe RGB, you convert it to Adobe Gamma.

When I’m finished editing, do I "assign" or "convert" to srgb (which is what is wanted by the outside printer)?

Don’t know, I do my own printing. I created a profile for my printer, and that is what I use for printing. It isn’t necessary to save such a file with that profile imbedded.

After I do all this, sometimes I have a tiff file which is just under 1 gig – I can’t even fit this on a cd. How do I make it smaller (no more than 400mb) and lose the least detail etc?

You can’t. A 1gb file Tiff is extremely large for a scan of a 35mm negative. How many pixels are you getting from the negative, and how big of a print do you need?
Jim

Thanks for any and all recommendations.

Louise

Thanks for your help.

I will generate my own profiel with adobe gamma. If there something better that doesn’t cost a lot of money?

On the negativr mentione 3.5 x 3.5. with 1200 rpi.

Where would one to cut the size from?

Louise

"louise" wrote in message

Jim wrote:

"louise" wrote in message

I’m trying to work out the "right" way to handle color profiles in Photoshop and prepare for outside printing,

Win XP Pro and Photoshop 7

I’m using a Sony CRT – I have icm files for this monitor. Should I use the Sony icm for my color setting? And if so, can I just choose it in PS or do I have to load it beforehand?

Only when the monitor is brand new is the supplied profile any where close to correct. Generate your own profile with Adobe Gamma (if that is all you can afford). Adobe Gamma will cause Adobe Gamma Loader to install the generated profile during startup of the computer.

What working space should I use?

Adobe RGB

I’m using tiff files I created by scanning 35mm negatives 24 bit and high resolution.

That is three channels at 8 bits each.

I open the file in PS

What color profile do I use while I’m working on the file?

What profile did the scanner imbed?

Do I "assign" this color profile or do I "convert" to this color profile?

If it isn’t Adobe RGB, you convert it to Adobe Gamma.

When I’m finished editing, do I "assign" or "convert" to srgb (which is what is wanted by the outside printer)?

Don’t know, I do my own printing. I created a profile for my printer, and that is what I use for printing. It isn’t necessary to save such a file with that profile imbedded.

After I do all this, sometimes I have a tiff file which is just under 1 gig – I can’t even fit this on a cd. How do I make it smaller (no more than 400mb) and lose the least detail etc?

You can’t. A 1gb file Tiff is extremely large for a scan of a 35mm negative. How many pixels are you getting from the negative, and how big of a print do you need?
Jim

Thanks for any and all recommendations.

Louise

Thanks for your help.

I will generate my own profiel with adobe gamma. If there something better that doesn’t cost a lot of money?

On the negativr mentione 3.5 x 3.5. with 1200 rpi.

Where would one to cut the size from?

Louise

That is a strange size for a 35mm negative. You can’t get an image that is 35mm wide from a 35mm roll of film because there is only 24mm left after allowing for the sprocket holes. You might be able to get this size image from 828 film, but that size film is long gone.
The number of pixels that you need depends on the size of the print that you want to make. You can use 200 pixels per inch as a minimum. Hence, if you intend to make a 10×10 print (that is 10 inches), you need an image that is 2000×2000 pixels. You scan the negative at such a resolution to yield that many pixels.
Jim

Hello Loise,

louise wrote:

I’m trying to work out the "right" way to handle color profiles in Photoshop and prepare for outside printing,

Win XP Pro and Photoshop 7

I’m using a Sony CRT – I have icm files for this monitor. Should I use the Sony icm for my color setting? And if so, can I just choose it in PS or do I have to load it beforehand?

What working space should I use?

I’m using tiff files I created by scanning 35mm negatives 24 bit and high resolution.

I open the file in PS

What color profile do I use while I’m working on the file?

This depends on what you want to do.

Tasks as sharpen and resize work best in linear colorspace for photographers.
I always use this as working space.

There are three kinds of color space : Input space, working space and output space.

Input space is the space of the digitalizing device, e.g. a digital camera mostly generates AdobeRGB or sRGB.

Working space is the space for editing. I mostly use linear RGB. You can choose anything you want, when it fits input or output space. Output space is the space for the output device.

E.g. You get a file without embedded profile and you know, it is srgb. Therefore you would /assign/ srgb to it.
Then you would /convert/ it to your preferred working space. You should choose a working space without conversion losses or minimal losses. After editing, you should convert it to output space. Normally there is no choice here, because the output device has only one colorspace.

Ok, that is the way /I/ am working and I did use another software than photoshop until now…

HTH,

Peter

Hello,
also look here:
<http://www.aim-dtp.net/aim/photoshop/v6/color-settings.htm>

hth,

Peter