Poser 6 & Photoshop CS2

In many instances they do use humans with electrodes hooked to body suits to create the basic figures and movements. Polar Express is a prime example of this. You cannot make the assumption that ALL these movies are done in the same manner.

There are countless scenes in the Matrix where using your assumed manner of creation would be completely impossible. The scene where Neo flips around a pole and those countless Smith’s go flying in the fight after the visit with the Oracle in Reloaded could not be created using real people. Look closely at the scenes where Neo is flipping around that pole knocking around the many Smith’s. With a little attention you can clearly see no actor could have performed those actions.

Yes, real people are used in the process, but the real people are not doing the entire acting in many cases.

Even in Polar Express the actors are NOT simply painted using some process to make them look like cartoon character’s. Their movements are scanned in 3D and the computer then uses that information to create the motion of the created 3D characters.

You are right in some assumptions and completely wrong in assuming that ALL these similar films are created exactly the same way.

—
Larry Johnson
Digital Video Solutions

http://www.digitalvideosolutions.com
877-227-6281 Toll Free Sales Assistance
386-672-1941 Customer Service
386-672-1907 Technical Support
386-676-1515 Fax

wrote in message

In movies like the Animatrix, or Final Fantasy, it looks like there are real people on our screen. That is actually what is happening.
They take real video of people in make up and costume, and then airbrush them in photoshop to make it look like they are rendered in 3D. They have scripts to help them do it of course.

They put these fake 3d models into scenes they have created in 3d studio max that are mixed in with real textures. So in the end they have a multi-media showcase of photoshop, 3d studio max, video, and careful editing.

I just bought a copy of photoshop and poser for myself! My goal is to take real world photographs and make them appear to be computer graphics. My first test case was made using a poser model that I applied a photo of tom hanks face to. Then in photoshop I blended in the real photo with the poser figure, to make it appear more life like. I couldn’t get it perfect, because I am not experienced with either application but here are the results:

Finished CG Model:
http://img14.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cghank4jv.png

Origonal Poser Figure:
http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hanksface4xk.gif

"Larry Johnson" wrote in message

In many instances they do use humans with electrodes hooked to body suits to create the basic figures and movements. Polar Express is a prime example of this. You cannot make the assumption that ALL these movies are done in the same manner.

There are countless scenes in the Matrix where using your assumed manner of creation would be completely impossible. The scene where Neo flips around a pole and those countless Smith’s go flying in the fight after the visit with the Oracle in Reloaded could not be created using real people. Look closely at the scenes where Neo is flipping around that pole knocking around the many Smith’s. With a little attention you can clearly see no actor could have performed those actions.

Yes, real people are used in the process, but the real people are not doing the entire acting in many cases.

Even in Polar Express the actors are NOT simply painted using some process to make them look like cartoon character’s. Their movements are scanned in 3D and the computer then uses that information to create the motion of the created 3D characters.

You are right in some assumptions and completely wrong in assuming that ALL these similar films are created exactly the same way.

This latest post made a little more sense than his last.

His initial post could be interpreted to say that the don’t bother to model and render the characters, but rather
just shoot real actors and rotoscope them to look like
3D models. This is rarely the case.

In this post, you might think that he believes that the actors are actually 3D models, but they have texture maps made
from actual pictures of real people, then just applied to the models. Sure, this is the way the textures are made for
many for many if not most 3D objects. Well duh, most
textures used on models start off as photographs of real objects, and yes, Photoshop is a useful tool to use when extracting the texture maps needed to create realistic
looking objects.

To simplify the programming of movement, and make
movement look more believable they use motion capture.
I have heard of using armatures with sensors to get the
motion information. However I think they use multiple
cameras shooting the actors wearing a suit with highly
reflective ping-pong balls attached at all of the joints. A computer is used to analyze the motion and create
motion files that can be used by the 3D animation programs.

I’m not sure how much of feature film business is 3D Studio Max. I think Maya and Lightwave are used more in feature film work, along with other more obscure programs, and
proprietary software created by (or for) the effects companies.

David

In movies like the Animatrix, or Final Fantasy, it looks like there are real people on our screen. That is actually what is happening.
They take real video of people in make up and costume, and then airbrush them in photoshop to make it look like they are rendered in 3D. They have scripts to help them do it of course.

They put these fake 3d models into scenes they have created in 3d studio max that are mixed in with real textures. So in the end they have a multi-media showcase of photoshop, 3d studio max, video, and careful editing.

I just bought a copy of photoshop and poser for myself! My goal is to take real world photographs and make them appear to be computer graphics. My first test case was made using a poser model that I applied a photo of tom hanks face to. Then in photoshop I blended in the real photo with the poser figure, to make it appear more life like. I couldn’t get it perfect, because I am not experienced with either application but here are the results:

Finished CG Model:
http://img14.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cghank4jv.png

Origonal Poser Figure:
http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hanksface4xk

In many instances they do use humans with electrodes hooked to body suits to create the basic figures and movements. Polar Express is a prime example of this. You cannot make the assumption that ALL these movies are done in the same manner.

There are countless scenes in the Matrix where using your assumed manner of creation would be completely impossible. The scene where Neo flips around a pole and those countless Smith’s go flying in the fight after the visit with the Oracle in Reloaded could not be created using real people. Look closely at the scenes where Neo is flipping around that pole knocking around the many Smith’s. With a little attention you can clearly see no actor could have performed those actions.

Yes, real people are used in the process, but the real people are not doing the entire acting in many cases.

Even in Polar Express the actors are NOT simply painted using some process to make them look like cartoon character’s. Their movements are scanned in 3D and the computer then uses that information to create the motion of the created 3D characters.

You are right in some assumptions and completely wrong in assuming that ALL these similar films are created exactly the same way.

You are right that there is more to what they are doing in hollywood with computer graphics than I can understand, but I am glad you can see how I have a point too.

My theory on the matrix is that they are in fact creating 3D models that do all of the acting, in pieces. Then they photoshop the characters together to create one seamless scene. When they are doing this they use photoshop to apply photographs of the actors onto the models.

They do this last part by filming a number of bullet time sequences seperately, and then piecing them together in photoshop with the 3d characters.

That is only an idea however. 🙂

You might want to pick up the November 2005 issue of 3DWorld (issue #70) it’s cover article is "Human 2.0: How virtual characters will look and act by 2010". The article details some of the special effects of creating virtual human characters for a number of recent films and video games. The magazine is an import from the UK, so you can probably still find it on the shelves at any of the big name bookstores. Runs around $15 an issue – but you get a cover CD that’s got some goodies on it. This particular issue CD came with some video tutorials for XSI. Some seamless wood texture maps, a number of Zygote 3d models (Man, woman, horse, dolphin, and a human skeleton) and assorted other files (such as the files for all the tutorials in this issue).

You might also take a look at some of the great magazines for Photoshop while you’re at the book store (another import from England), there’s a number that have some really great
tutorials. When I picked up this last issue of 3DWorld I also got an issue of "Advance Photoshop: The magazine for profesionals by profesionals" this was the October issue – it also comes with 2 cover CDs both with lots of filters and add-ons for PS. There is a great tutorial article by Jack Cheng, called "Digital cosmetic surgery" – where he shows how he takes head shots of people and creates images where the person is young (20 something looking), middle aged, and then old. All done in photoshop.

You might also drop in the poser newsgroup, it’s a pretty active group and some of those people have been using Poser for a long time.

Links
www.computerarts.co.uk/3dworld

alt.binaries.3d.poser

Martin

wrote:

In movies like the Animatrix, or Final Fantasy, it looks like there are real people on our screen. That is actually what is happening.
They take real video of people in make up and costume, and then airbrush them in photoshop to make it look like they are rendered in 3D. They have scripts to help them do it of course.

They put these fake 3d models into scenes they have created in 3d studio max that are mixed in with real textures. So in the end they have a multi-media showcase of photoshop, 3d studio max, video, and careful editing.

I just bought a copy of photoshop and poser for myself! My goal is to take real world photographs and make them appear to be computer graphics. My first test case was made using a poser model that I applied a photo of tom hanks face to. Then in photoshop I blended in the real photo with the poser figure, to make it appear more life like. I couldn’t get it perfect, because I am not experienced with either application but here are the results:

Finished CG Model:
http://img14.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cghank4jv.png

Origonal Poser Figure:
http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hanksface4xk.gif

wrote in message

My theory on the matrix is that they are in fact creating 3D models that do all of the acting, in pieces. Then they photoshop the characters together to create one seamless scene. When they are doing this they use photoshop to apply photographs of the actors onto the models.

Not exactly. The characters are modeled in a 3D aplication, and a UV map is made from the model. A UV map is a picture that looks like the original model has been cut open and laid out flat (think dear skin). Every polygon in the object is represented, and placed in the same order it will be used on the model. That UV map is taken into a paint program (Photoshop works fine for this) and the textures are added as needed (including faces). Not only are color maps created, but bump maps, reflection maps, specular maps, etc. can be made to match the original UV map for the object. These days you can do that in Poser and most other 3D aps these days

They do this last part by filming a number of bullet time sequences seperately, and then piecing them together in photoshop with the 3d characters.

Bullet time has been discused here a lot. There were sites that went into great detail about bullet time and related techniques. It’s quite fasinating. They did it with a large number of 35mm still cameras mounted to an aluminum rail. They could get different effects by fireing the cameras in sequence or all at the same time.

The individual frames did need some tweaking, but they might have use proprietary software. It could be done in Photoshop though.

That is only an idea however. 🙂

Google, and other search engines, are your friends. Most of the things you are guessing about now, are well covered on the internet.

David

Your assumption that they use Photoshop in erroneous. 3D modeling programs are used. Using single frame paints in Photoshop would take too long. Completely realistic images can be created in these programs.

Maxon 4D XL, Lightwave, 3D Studio Max and several others create totally realistic images. Photoshop is a 2D program X & Y factors only. 3D works with X, Y & Z factors. Don’t you ever watch any of the special feature on DVD discs, or any of those programs on A&E showing how these things are done?

wrote in message

In movies like the Animatrix, or Final Fantasy, it looks like there are real people on our screen. That is actually what is happening.
They take real video of people in make up and costume, and then airbrush them in photoshop to make it look like they are rendered in 3D. They have scripts to help them do it of course.

They put these fake 3d models into scenes they have created in 3d studio max that are mixed in with real textures. So in the end they have a multi-media showcase of photoshop, 3d studio max, video, and careful editing.

I just bought a copy of photoshop and poser for myself! My goal is to take real world photographs and make them appear to be computer graphics. My first test case was made using a poser model that I applied a photo of tom hanks face to. Then in photoshop I blended in the real photo with the poser figure, to make it appear more life like. I couldn’t get it perfect, because I am not experienced with either application but here are the results:

Finished CG Model:
http://img14.imageshack.us/my.php?image=cghank4jv.png

Origonal Poser Figure:
http://img521.imageshack.us/my.php?image=hanksface4xk

In many instances they do use humans with electrodes hooked to body suits to
create the basic figures and movements. Polar Express is a prime example of
this. You cannot make the assumption that ALL these movies are done in the same manner.

There are countless scenes in the Matrix where using your assumed manner of
creation would be completely impossible. The scene where Neo flips around a
pole and those countless Smith’s go flying in the fight after the visit with
the Oracle in Reloaded could not be created using real people. Look closely
at the scenes where Neo is flipping around that pole knocking around the many Smith’s. With a little attention you can clearly see no actor could have performed those actions.

Yes, real people are used in the process, but the real people are not doing
the entire acting in many cases.

Even in Polar Express the actors are NOT simply painted using some process to make them look like cartoon character’s. Their movements are scanned in
3D and the computer then uses that information to create the motion of the created 3D characters.

You are right in some assumptions and completely wrong in assuming that ALL
these similar films are created exactly the same way.

You are right that there is more to what they are doing in hollywood with computer graphics than I can understand, but I am glad you can see how I have a point too.

My theory on the matrix is that they are in fact creating 3D models that do all of the acting, in pieces. Then they photoshop the characters together to create one seamless scene. When they are doing this they use photoshop to apply photographs of the actors onto the models.

They do this last part by filming a number of bullet time sequences seperately, and then piecing them together in photoshop with the 3d characters.

That is only an idea however. 🙂

Your assumption that they use Photoshop in erroneous. 3D modeling programs are used. Using single frame paints in Photoshop would take too long. Completely realistic images can be created in these programs.

Maxon 4D XL, Lightwave, 3D Studio Max and several others create totally realistic images. Photoshop is a 2D program X & Y factors only. 3D works with X, Y & Z factors. Don’t you ever watch any of the special feature on DVD discs, or any of those programs on A&E showing how these things are done?

I haven’t seen an example of a 3d model that compares to some of the ones in hollywood that hasn’t been photoshopped. There is a precedent for doing this. Max Headroom was just an actor touched up with computer graphics.

I don’t know why you keep assuming Photoshop has so much to do with this subject. Imagine attempting what you are assuming to be true in single frame mode.

First the entire film would have to be outputted to a Photoshop Fillmstrip file for manipulation. Let’s assume the film is only 1 hour 30 minutes. Film is 24fps. That is 1440 frames per minute – 86400 frames per hour. Not only would the file size be trememdous at full film quality 4K quality – 4096×3072 individual images, or in digital camera speak 12 MegaPixel per frame. Then there is the simple fact that no two frames are alike, so cloning from frame to frame would be nearly impossible – if not completely impossible. After all, what is going to do the motion tracking of each individual character in features and movements throughout the many differing lighting situations within each individual scene?

Next what about all those little things in the background of each frame where the wind may blow a leaf which is embedded within a bunch of other blowing leaves with all their individual color nuances according to the differing lighting of each individual scenes in accordance with the camera movements?

3D environment programs create these things in accordance to preset choices of lighting, color of individual elements, etc. The dinosaur’s in Jurrasic Park were not created by painting individual frames of film one at a time. They were created within a 3D program which had been told the exact size of the set where the real actors would exist, along with the lighting as it existed in the real set. Those things were then composited together to create the seamless look of the dinosaur’s and real people with those scenes.

The same holds true with films like Final Fantasy. The entire environment is created with a 3D program where it is told the total width, height and depth of the virtual set in feet and inches. The lighting is placed accordingly just like on a real set. If a virtual actor is supposed to be 6 foot 3 inches the program is told that during the character creation. If an army tank is created it is created in full scale according to where it sits and moves within a scene. These are things that cannot be done in simpler programs such as Photoshop.

wrote in message

Your assumption that they use Photoshop in erroneous. 3D modeling programs
are used. Using single frame paints in Photoshop would take too long. Completely realistic images can be created in these programs.

Maxon 4D XL, Lightwave, 3D Studio Max and several others create totally realistic images. Photoshop is a 2D program X & Y factors only. 3D works with X, Y & Z factors. Don’t you ever watch any of the special feature on DVD discs, or any of those programs on A&E showing how these things are done?

I haven’t seen an example of a 3d model that compares to some of the ones in hollywood that hasn’t been photoshopped. There is a precedent for doing this. Max Headroom was just an actor touched up with computer graphics.

"Larry Johnson" wrote in message

I don’t know why you keep assuming Photoshop has so much to do with this subject. Imagine attempting what you are assuming to be true in single frame mode.

I think there is some confusion here. It seems like he is talking about applying textures to the characters that have been created in Photoshop from actual photographs, So far so good. It doesn’t have to be Photoshop, but that is certainly one of the available options.

He may also recognize that actors, or whoever is available, are used to get the movement of the virtual actors. This also is true, but they wouldn’t extract the image maps for the faces or costumes in that step. Motion capture and image capture are completely separate steps.

Sometimes they use cool cameras that can revolve around an actor (sitting very still) to capture a "wrap around" image that can be mapped directly to a model. This may be up to capturing the geometry of the character at the same time. but it’s more likely that they will just use a picture of the face taken from straight on, and mapping that onto the model.

You are right, that isn’t something they would want to do frame by frame. There is plenty manual work to be done without that kind of aggravation. They may have to do some frame by frame work, but mostly on short segments at a time.

David

Max Head room was a tv series produced from 1987-1988 – 3D / video technology has improved a lot since then.

Martin

wrote:

Your assumption that they use Photoshop in erroneous. 3D modeling programs are used. Using single frame paints in Photoshop would take too long. Completely realistic images can be created in these programs.

Maxon 4D XL, Lightwave, 3D Studio Max and several others create totally realistic images. Photoshop is a 2D program X & Y factors only. 3D works with X, Y & Z factors. Don’t you ever watch any of the special feature on DVD discs, or any of those programs on A&E showing how these things are done?

I haven’t seen an example of a 3d model that compares to some of the ones in hollywood that hasn’t been photoshopped. There is a precedent for doing this. Max Headroom was just an actor touched up with computer graphics.

They photoshop actors in movies and magazines anyway, it makes sense they would photoshop 3D models too.

Here is a link to a real photo of myself, and a 3D model of my head that has been touched up with the real photo. It looks like the animatrix to me. 🙂

http://img179.imageshack.us/my.php?image=corey3d8uu.gif

wrote in message

They photoshop actors in movies and magazines anyway, it makes sense they would photoshop 3D models too.

They may well Photoshop Movie Actors in magazines,
but they don’t Photoshop actors in movies, except to
touch up image maps that will be used on the 3D models.
So, close but no cigar.

David

I figured out what the problem was, the image I uploaded isn’t hi-res enough for you guys to see how photrealistic and 3d it was. I put it on my personal webspace here:
http://www.permaculturegroup.org/corey3d.jpg

Also I got a letter from Poser technical support that says photoshop is indeed how most of the word gets done with 3D modeling.. read here:

Dear Mr. White,
The short answer is, Probably not- the quality you get from the Face Room’s photo lineup feature >depends a lot on all kinds of factors from the lighting of the pictures to the degree to which the shape of >the face in the photo matches that of the figure you’re using. I understand your frustration, but at the >moment this particular feature of the Face Room is still not as powerful as we’d like it to be; it works >acceptably for some things but not terribly well for others. If you’re going to be working with a limited set >of faces, you can use the Photo Lineup to apply textures, then use the other face-shaping tools to fine->tune the face shapes until you get something workable- and then add those modified figures into your >library, so you’ll have access to them when you need them. If on the other hand you’re planning on >putting people’s faces on Poser figures on an ongoing basis, then unfortunately you’re probably going to >wind up doing a good bit of post-work in Photoshop.

Regards, Colin Gerbode
Technical Support

On Mon, 12 Dec 2005 14:31:06 -0800, wrote:

I was using the program correctly, and the problems seem to have resolved themselves without me doing anything differently. That is good for now, but I am still unhappy with the quality of the poser models that the software creates. I have attached a image of my work so far. The image on the left is the poser model, the image in the center is a photoshopped version of the model, and the image on the right is my photo which I used in photoshop to correct the poser model.

Is there a way poser can create the quality that you see in the center without me having to go through this process over and over again?

wrote in message

I figured out what the problem was, the image I uploaded isn’t hi-res enough for you guys to see how photrealistic and 3d it was. I put it on my personal webspace here:
http://www.permaculturegroup.org/corey3d.jpg

Not bad. Now give the face some asymmetry.

Lorem wrote:

I figured out what the problem was, the image I uploaded isn’t hi-res enough for you guys to see how photrealistic and 3d it was. I put it on my personal webspace here:
http://www.permaculturegroup.org/corey3d.jpg

Not bad. Now give the face some asymmetry

I really am glad everyone here has given me the feedback that I have recieved. I’m trying to create a 3D animated movie about issues I feel are important, and am looking for other artists to network with. Right now my skills are just developing and your critisism helps. I’m done chatting about this for now, because my question was answered by the Poser 6 technical support team, and it seems that the way I am doing this is how a lot of the work gets done with 3D modeling.

On 13 Dec 2005 07:49:13 -0800, wrote:

Lorem wrote:

I figured out what the problem was, the image I uploaded isn’t hi-res enough for you guys to see how photrealistic and 3d it was. I put it on my personal webspace here:
http://www.permaculturegroup.org/corey3d.jpg

Not bad. Now give the face some asymmetry

I really am glad everyone here has given me the feedback that I have recieved. I’m trying to create a 3D animated movie about issues I feel are important, and am looking for other artists to network with. Right now my skills are just developing and your critisism helps. I’m done chatting about this for now, because my question was answered by the Poser 6 technical support team, and it seems that the way I am doing this is how a lot of the work gets done with 3D modeling.

Join The Pixel Corps

The Pixel Corps is designed to provide:

Clear guidelines for learning digital media.

Inexpensive and ongoing education in the ever-changing business of digital media.

Access to people and equipment that most of us wouldn’t have otherwise.

A community or guild of artisans…all dedicated to moving both the technology and each other forward.

Access to true production training and experience.
http://www.pixelcorps.com/

Is this a funny read or what?! It might be the whisky in my hand or something…i dunno….seems to me this magic-dude is pulling your legs….plz forgive my err pessimism. "photorealistic and 3d" lol, "the actors are painted to look 3D" HAH. im really really laughing about that one. imagine the number of frames…the effort…the complete ‘waste of time’

anyway, im going to roswell, im due for a meeting/abduction.

mzu

"JimK" wrote in message

On 13 Dec 2005 07:49:13 -0800, wrote:

Lorem wrote:

I figured out what the problem was, the image I uploaded isn’t hi-res enough for you guys to see how photrealistic and 3d it was. I put it on my personal webspace here:
http://www.permaculturegroup.org/corey3d.jpg

Not bad. Now give the face some asymmetry

I really am glad everyone here has given me the feedback that I have recieved. I’m trying to create a 3D animated movie about issues I feel are important, and am looking for other artists to network with. Right now my skills are just developing and your critisism helps. I’m done chatting about this for now, because my question was answered by the Poser 6 technical support team, and it seems that the way I am doing this is how a lot of the work gets done with 3D modeling.

Join The Pixel Corps

The Pixel Corps is designed to provide:

Clear guidelines for learning digital media.

Inexpensive and ongoing education in the ever-changing business of digital media.

Access to people and equipment that most of us wouldn’t have otherwise.

A community or guild of artisans…all dedicated to moving both the technology and each other forward.

Access to true production training and experience.
http://www.pixelcorps.com/