Scanning an illuminated manuscript

JP
Posted By
James Pepper
Jun 30, 2003
Views
832
Replies
17
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Closed
For the past 16 years I have been making by hand an illuminated manuscript of the Bible. There is nothing in this that is digital, it is completely hand made written in pen and ink and decorated in full color. I am scanning it at 300DPI in order to publish it. I am using Photoshop 5.5 and I know I should upgrade to 7.0 but finances say no for the moment. It is full color and Gold, silver, Copper and Bronze on several hundred pages, the total page length is around 800 pages but thankfully most of them are just text. The problem I have is scanning the metallic colors and I need advice on how to make the separate layers of each of the metallic colors. I plan to print this in two formats, one just CMKY and the other CMKY + the different metallic colors each on a separate layer. So how do I do that. I talked to a Photoshop enthusiast who thought this was a big project when I told him I used Gold on several hundred pages; I didn’t tell him about the copper and the silver and the bronze! Anyone know any printers who can handle 8 layers?

Also, I have been given some advice on the scanning from the Getty Museum, they suggested using a filter to scan my pages and then combine that scan with a scan of the original without the filter to screen out excess glare from the gold. Either my scans are too dark or the metallic colors reflect light back and white out the surrounding decoration which is also in full color. Imagine scanning a page from the book of Kells and you can understand the situation. Where would I get this type of filter and what should I be looking for. They assumed i knew about this type of material and I don’t.
Here is my web site that has the images scanned at 150 DPI. < http://www.hometown.aol.com/biblescribe1/biblescribe1/index. htm>

Sincerely,

James G. Pepper
Biblical Scribe
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C
Cheesefood
Jun 30, 2003
Sounds like an incredible project!

What you might consider doing is scanning in the sheets, and then making a selection of the metalics and then make a new channel and fill it using the selection shape of the metallics. This way you can take it to your printer and explain that the channels are to be printed metallic.

Are you using metallic inks or leaf?
RH
r_harvey
Jun 30, 2003
The light angle of consumer-grade scanners is not conducive to scanning reflective objects–it would be like scanning a gold, warped mirror. A professional-grade scanner that offers lighting control would do a better job.

For best control of light angles, your pages would be better handled photographically. A process camera should be able to handle it.
LH
Lawrence Hudetz
Jul 1, 2003
A process camera with a scanning back………
RH
r_harvey
Jul 1, 2003
Now, using a process camera with a scanning back would allow for precise control of glare, as the lights and the lens have polarizers.

I’ve used several process cameras, from a little DS Screen to wall cameras with 12-foot copy boards. None of them had Polarizers (they did have colored filters). One reason is that they would be too expensive for the huge lenses, unless you used gels (which would be too fragile). The other reason is that they wouldn’t help; you adjust the light positions to change the angle of reflection, and if necessary add white reflectors or a white cone to eliminate dark reflections.
LH
Lawrence Hudetz
Jul 1, 2003
Good point. I was emulating a studio setup where polarizing gels are used along with the camera filter. For process work, the degradation may be too much.
C
Cheesefood
Jul 1, 2003
The light angle of consumer-grade scanners is not conducive to scanning reflective objects–it would be like scanning a gold, warped mirror. A professional-grade scanner that offers lighting control would do a better job.

OK, well photo-geek aside 😉 what about something as simple as scanning it, applying a photocopy filter so everything is more binary, then selecting the metallic area and making a channel with any arbitrary color to later be designated as a foil stamp?
JP
James Pepper
Jul 1, 2003
Thank you all! Well I see that it is a difficult subject. Ok, what is a process camera with a scanning back? Yes I don’t know! I am a scribe not a computer spcecialist! The polarizing filter is what the Getty Museum suggested. The channel idea is what has been suggested by others, which will be tedious but thats the way it goes! From what r_harvey suggests on these cameras that may be my best hope. I am using lead pencils Prismacolor and others that are highly polished and then etched to make the filligree. The filigree does not show up on scans or photographs and they don’t seem to show up in other manuscripts as well,but it ads a whole new dimension to the work. I have a few pages in metallic inks but I can redo them, I wasn’t too happy with them. Gold leaf would have been way to expensice for this project but that is Ok because the Book fo Kells doesn’t have any real gold in it either! I am not too concerned with the filigree but I have found that particularly copper has a variation in its tone depending on the shape of the page which can not be reproduced but that is why the original is so special!

Thanks you all for your suggeestions.

Sincerely,

James G. Pepper
Biblical Scribe
< http://www.hometown.aol.com/biblescribe1/biblescribe1/index. htm>
LH
Lawrence Hudetz
Jul 2, 2003
Senior moment. Polarizers don’t work well on metal reflections. I knew that!!
Y
YrbkMgr
Jul 2, 2003
I scan a lot of foil work; A LOT. Most of what I scan is gold or silver, sometimes a red tint foil (crests and emblems and the like).

I have always had to re-create the foil color, and *sometimes* the reflective effect. Since it’s limited to gold and silver pretty much there are a few techniques that are helpful. I’m not sure however they would be good solutions for page after page scanning. Plus the variation I saw at the link made me shudder.

One of the things I routinely do however, with a flatbed, is I scan two copies of the image in; one copy has scan settings that optimize color, etc. on everything except the gold foil emblem, and the other where the scan settings are optimized ONLY for the emblem. That way I end up working less on the foil piece and simply placing it where it belongs on the rest of the image that was optimized the other way.

<shrug>

Peace,
Tony
Y
YrbkMgr
Jul 2, 2003
Uhm… sorry to be dense, it looks like it should be funny, but I don’t get it.
DM
dave milbut
Jul 2, 2003
Beautiful work btw James P!
Y
YrbkMgr
Jul 2, 2003
You’ve not heard of it?

I’m embarassed to say, no I haven’t. I’m not a photographer <shrug>.

Cut&paste all of that dropped-out filigree back in an 800-page book would be a nightmare

That’s why I said when I looked at it I shuddered. It may hve been a sophmoric suggestion, but what I was hoping to accomplish was that somehow, one idea might lead to the next and perhaps (with a lot of luck) it might have inspired someone to suggest something. I dunno, shot in the dark anyway.
Y
YrbkMgr
Jul 2, 2003
cameraman/stripper

The visuals on this phrase make me shudder <grin>
JS
John Slate
Jul 2, 2003
Much of the advice given here is geared toward producing a decent CMYK facsimile of the metallics, which usually scan almost black. But since this guy is going to use a metallic PMS color, that would be a moot issue. Selecting the proper areas, copy/pasting to a spot channel, and then deleting from the CMYK, will be a chore no matter how you cut it.
JP
James Pepper
Jul 6, 2003
I was thinking of doing it the way Gutenberg did it which is to print up the text and then go back and hand draw the illuminations into a limited edition, the difference being I can print my handwritten pages in full color. It might actually be easier if not tedious but the full effect of the illuminations would be intact and it would be for a very small printing especially for my later work which is very complex. that way all of the filigree would survive. I still have to print this for a trade book edition, but I was thinking of doing that hand illuminationed version to get the full effect of it all, and it looks better and better to me. Since I have to remove the illuminations for the different layers, I might as well do it.
Thank you Gustavo I will check into that link. Thank you Dave, thank all of you for your help. You have confirmed that I am on the right track, a tedious one but the right direction. I just realized I used another metallic color I forgot about in some of the drawings, another layer to deal with! I will not allow this mess to interfere with the complexity of the illuminations even if it is a pain to scan and process them! Hey i’ve been doing this for 15 1/2 years now, as Greg wrote, why cut corners now?

Sincerely,

James G. Pepper
Biblical Scribe
< http://www.hometown.aol.com/biblescribe1/biblescribe1/index. htm>
GH
Gernot Hoffmann
Jul 6, 2003
James,

great work. Can´t you find a sponsor and let it facsimile-print professionally as Gustavo suggested ?

Best regards –Gernot
GH
Gernot Hoffmann
Jul 7, 2003
James.

I regret deeply that one can get support by foundations for research as long as NO results were achieved. When the result is already finished then nobody will care about.
And when the sponsored task is finished then it will always turn out that there are some unsolved problems left which require further support …
Nevertheless, I would recommend to ask for an offer by a commer- cial facsimile printer, as suggested by Gustavo.
Once you know the costs, an inquiry at prospective sponsors might be more successful.
IMO, the scan+print PhS method is not so appropriate for your graphics.

I wish you truly good luck.

Best regards –Gernot Hoffmann

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