Digital file to slide

In article , says…

After scanning a 35mm slide in a 4000dpi film scanner and editing the scan in Photoshop, I want to send the digital file to a service to convert it back to a slide. The slide will be submitted for jurying. The digital file is edited in Adobe rgb1998 color space, at 16-bit per channel, and has a resolution of 4000 by 6000 pixels. Some questions:
How good will the converted slide be compared to the original slide?
I.e., can a jury tell the difference?

At what resolution should I send the file to the service?
Should I send the file at the Adobe rgb1998 color space or convert it to srgb?

Should I send the file at 16-bit or convert it to 8-bit?
Can you recommend a good service?

Thanks.

First thing you need to do is pick the service bureau and get the exact specs that THEY need to produce the slide. Film recorders differ, and different labs/bureaus have different specs. Most offer several levels of service and you obviously want their "best." If possible, I’d chose one near me, so I could interact vis-a-vis with them, and possibly the technician, who will do the film recorder work. If that is not possible, I’d opt for the most " professinal" organization, that I could find on the Web. The necessary specs are dictated by the equipment and the lab’s workflow. They will tell you what they need to get the ultimate results.

As for the jury being able to distinguish the difference, most digital -> film projects that I’ve had done have looked exactly like a really good dupe slide. I have usually had the slides glass-mounted, for ultimate flatness and have seen some of them projected quite large, with no loss in clarity, color, etc.

Hunt

On 12 Jan 2006 16:22:43 GMT, (Hunt) wrote:

In article , says…

After scanning a 35mm slide in a 4000dpi film scanner and editing the scan in Photoshop, I want to send the digital file to a service to convert it back to a slide. The slide will be submitted for jurying. The digital file is edited in Adobe rgb1998 color space, at 16-bit per channel, and has a resolution of 4000 by 6000 pixels. Some questions:
How good will the converted slide be compared to the original slide?
I.e., can a jury tell the difference?

At what resolution should I send the file to the service?
Should I send the file at the Adobe rgb1998 color space or convert it to srgb?

Should I send the file at 16-bit or convert it to 8-bit?
Can you recommend a good service?

What if you had a potentially large number of digital files that you wanted render as slides? Does it make sense to buy your own film scanner?

I’m asking because these devices appear regularly on ebay. Mostly Polaroid, but also other brands. These devices are usually SCSI-based, and are "as is," tested to see if the lights blink, but nothing more. No cables and no software.

thanks

wrote in message

After scanning a 35mm slide in a 4000dpi film scanner and editing the scan in Photoshop, I want to send the digital file to a service to convert it back to a slide. The slide will be submitted for jurying.

Won’t they be pissed when they find out.

"Father Kodak" wrote in message

What if you had a potentially large number of digital files that you wanted render as slides? Does it make sense to buy your own film scanner?

I KNEW it would go this way – digital to film! It was only a matter of time.

In article ,
says…

On 12 Jan 2006 16:22:43 GMT, (Hunt) wrote:

In article , says…

After scanning a 35mm slide in a 4000dpi film scanner and editing the scan in Photoshop, I want to send the digital file to a service to convert it back to a slide. The slide will be submitted for jurying. The digital file is edited in Adobe rgb1998 color space, at 16-bit per channel, and has a resolution of 4000 by 6000 pixels. Some questions:
How good will the converted slide be compared to the original slide?
I.e., can a jury tell the difference?

At what resolution should I send the file to the service?
Should I send the file at the Adobe rgb1998 color space or convert it to srgb?

Should I send the file at 16-bit or convert it to 8-bit?
Can you recommend a good service?

What if you had a potentially large number of digital files that you wanted render as slides? Does it make sense to buy your own film scanner?

I’m asking because these devices appear regularly on ebay. Mostly Polaroid, but also other brands. These devices are usually SCSI-based, and are "as is," tested to see if the lights blink, but nothing more. No cables and no software.

thanks

It is not a "scanner," but a film "recorder," that you would need to convert digital files to film. Most often, film recorders are rather expensive devices, and need to be calibrated along with the E-6 process line. Unless one had very many files to convert, it’s better to hire the work done. Most, with which I have worked, hold 100′ of E-6 transparency film, so one has to shoot it up, or download it in darkness to a spool, to take to a lab. Some labs will balk at processing "bulk" film, as they so not know the emulsion – there are no notch codes, like 4×5. If you have a good relationship, the lab may well trust you.

Hunt

Hunt wrote:

In article , says…

After scanning a 35mm slide in a 4000dpi film scanner and editing the scan in Photoshop, I want to send the digital file to a service to convert it back to a slide. The slide will be submitted for jurying. The digital file is edited in Adobe rgb1998 color space, at 16-bit per channel, and has a resolution of 4000 by 6000 pixels. Some questions:
How good will the converted slide be compared to the original slide?
I.e., can a jury tell the difference?

At what resolution should I send the file to the service?
Should I send the file at the Adobe rgb1998 color space or convert it to srgb?

Should I send the file at 16-bit or convert it to 8-bit?
Can you recommend a good service?

Thanks.

First thing you need to do is pick the service bureau and get the exact specs that THEY need to produce the slide. Film recorders differ, and different labs/bureaus have different specs. Most offer several levels of service and you obviously want their "best." If possible, I’d chose one near me, so I could interact vis-a-vis with them, and possibly the technician, who will do the film recorder work. If that is not possible, I’d opt for the most " professinal" organization, that I could find on the Web. The necessary specs are dictated by the equipment and the lab’s workflow. They will tell you what they need to get the ultimate results.

Agreed that dealing with a local digital service is the best approach, not any different from dealing with a good traditional service. This is my first attempt at digital to film, and I want to know some basics so that I won’t ask foolish and unreasonable questions.

For example, the following service says "For 35mm slides, our fixed device
resolution is 4096 X 2730 pixels." Is that considered good or bad? What about this service’s equipment? Getting some of these basics down will allow me a more meaningful conversation with the local services.

http://www.slides.com/expert.html

As for the jury being able to distinguish the difference, most digital -> film projects that I’ve had done have looked exactly like a really good dupe slide. I have usually had the slides glass-mounted, for ultimate flatness and have seen some of them projected quite large, with no loss in clarity, color, etc.

When you get a "really good dupe slide", is that the best you can expect from digital to film? How close is such a slide to the digital file?

Thanks.

On 13 Jan 2006 02:53:24 GMT, (Hunt) wrote:

In article ,
says…

It is not a "scanner," but a film "recorder," that you would need to convert digital files to film. Most often, film recorders are rather expensive devices, and need to be calibrated along with the E-6 process line. Unless one had very many files to convert, it’s better to hire the work done. Most, with which I have worked, hold 100′ of E-6 transparency film, so one has to shoot

The film recorders that I have seen on ebay are mostly designed to hold 1 35 mm roll.

I agree with your comments about calibrating the recorder and the E-6 process line. No point in doing color management for your image if the recorder isn’t part of the color management workflow.

The recorders on ebay are generally pretty cheap, although shipping can be expensive. However, the real issue is the software, since these recorders come "as-is."

Father Kodak

In article ,
says…

On 13 Jan 2006 02:53:24 GMT, (Hunt) wrote:

In article ,
says…

It is not a "scanner," but a film "recorder," that you would need to convert digital files to film. Most often, film recorders are rather expensive devices, and need to be calibrated along with the E-6 process line. Unless

one

had very many files to convert, it’s better to hire the work done. Most,

with

which I have worked, hold 100′ of E-6 transparency film, so one has to shoot

The film recorders that I have seen on ebay are mostly designed to hold 1 35 mm roll.

I agree with your comments about calibrating the recorder and the E-6 process line. No point in doing color management for your image if the recorder isn’t part of the color management workflow.
The recorders on ebay are generally pretty cheap, although shipping can be expensive. However, the real issue is the software, since these recorders come "as-is."

Father Kodak

You’ve got me there. All that I have ever dealt with were very expensive pro- lab items, ~US$20,000. I’ve never seen any that handled a single roll of E-6. Now, that is not to cast doubts on those, only that I have no experience, whatsoever with them. As the push was on to miniaturize drum-scanners for the desktop, I suppose that similar efforts were afoot for film-recorders. Live, and learn.

Let us know if you make the plunge, and how it goes – good luck.

Hunt

On 14 Jan 2006 04:50:53 GMT, (Hunt) wrote:

You’ve got me there. All that I have ever dealt with were very expensive pro- lab items, ~US$20,000. I’ve never seen any that handled a single roll of E-6. Now, that is not to cast doubts on those, only that I have no experience, whatsoever with them. As the push was on to miniaturize drum-scanners for the desktop, I suppose that similar efforts were afoot for film-recorders. Live, and learn.

Let us know if you make the plunge, and how it goes – good luck.
Hunt

Well, so far I’m standing on the edge of the pool, shivering a bit because it’s "chilly out there" with the lack of good solid experience with these recorders.

Between the el-cheapo ebay auctions and this company Computer Graphics (I think) with their "scare tactics" I think I’m going to continue to watch and wait for a bargain. Fortunately I’m not in any hurry.

First thing, though, is to sort out the software driver issues. I have to figure out a low-cost source for a driver package that runs on Windows XP and supports the 4000 or 8000 line recorders from Polaroid or LaserGraphics. At least, that is my plan for now.

From everything I’ve read, the low-end recorders (within the desktop category) are OK for PowerPoint presentations but not much else.

If/when/ever I do this, I’ll certainly post my experience.

Father Kodak

In article ,
says…

On 14 Jan 2006 04:50:53 GMT, (Hunt) wrote:

You’ve got me there. All that I have ever dealt with were very expensive

pro-

lab items, ~US$20,000. I’ve never seen any that handled a single roll of E-

6.

Now, that is not to cast doubts on those, only that I have no experience, whatsoever with them. As the push was on to miniaturize drum-scanners for

the

desktop, I suppose that similar efforts were afoot for film-recorders. Live, and learn.

Let us know if you make the plunge, and how it goes – good luck.
Hunt

Well, so far I’m standing on the edge of the pool, shivering a bit because it’s "chilly out there" with the lack of good solid experience with these recorders.

Between the el-cheapo ebay auctions and this company Computer Graphics (I think) with their "scare tactics" I think I’m going to continue to watch and wait for a bargain. Fortunately I’m not in any hurry.
First thing, though, is to sort out the software driver issues. I have to figure out a low-cost source for a driver package that runs on Windows XP and supports the 4000 or 8000 line recorders from Polaroid or LaserGraphics. At least, that is my plan for now.

From everything I’ve read, the low-end recorders (within the desktop category) are OK for PowerPoint presentations but not much else.
If/when/ever I do this, I’ll certainly post my experience.
Father Kodak

Hey, if you DO take the plunge, let us know which unit you went with, and how it works. The pro-lab output that I have gotten has been very good, indeed. As I stated, it was on par with a very good dupe.

As my experience with the gear was extremely limited (heck I didn’t even know that Polaroid did a film recorder!), I couldn’t offer much in the way of help. If there are good desktop units, it might be something I’d want to consider, though the client requests for film output has been tapering off over the last several years. About the time that the digital projectors got their kinks worked out, everyone went over to that route. OTOH, in the late 80’s & early 90’s (when digital and video were hot in AV work), out of the blue, I started getting calls for "slide shows!" Heck, I thought that that particular medium was "dead." In about 9mos I had paid for a complete Nikon F4 system. About the same time, the demand for MF work slipped to 0% of my work. Maybe 70% LF, and the rest 35mm. I hadn’t shot 35mm for commercial purposes in 10 years at that time. Even the replacement batteries in my Hassleblad 500EL died from lack of use. Shows why I could never predict anything in business – if I think it’s dead, it comes back in a big way!!!!!!

Good luck,
Hunt

On 15 Jan 2006 16:52:26 GMT, (Hunt) wrote:

In article ,
says…

On 14 Jan 2006 04:50:53 GMT, (Hunt) wrote:

Hey, if you DO take the plunge, let us know which unit you went with, and how it works. The pro-lab output that I have gotten has been very good, indeed. As I stated, it was on par with a very good dupe.

Well, as a non-pro, I can’t really make any money with this stuff, although I am thinking about selling slide dupes and prints from some of my subjects that are 30-40 years old.

I can see scanning a slide, cleaning it up, and then wanting to make a new slide, either for myself or to sell. But I’m giving myself all this year to set up this sideline business, and to assemble the various equipment. That means I can afford to wait and watch until just the right deal comes along on ebay.

I’ll keep you posted.

Father Kodak