"Save for web" changes colors (but release 6 didn’t)

ML
Posted By
maarten_legene
Feb 27, 2004
Views
655
Replies
15
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Closed
My working space is Adobe RGB. When I choose "save for web" (jpg) all colors become cooler than the PSD original. Especially skins are looking as if they belong to a dead body. It’s really awful.
This wasn’t the case at all in Photoshop 6.0
The compression factor doesn’t make a difference. What has been changed or what am I doing wrong?
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MV
Mathias_Vejerslev
Feb 27, 2004
Hi maarten.

Adobe RGB is a color space wider than what can be presented in general applications, such as a browser or most image viewers (essentially all non-color managed applications).

What you want to do is to work in sRGB space when doing anything web related, or to convert your Adobe RGB image to sRGB via Image>Convert to profile, before using SFW.

Mathias
CC
Chris_Cox
Feb 28, 2004
And PS 6 was exactly the same….
ML
maarten_legene
Feb 28, 2004
Yes, I know all about these color spaces. But I did not presume that "save for web" automatically will convert Adobe RGB into sRGB.
Anyway, the results are really awful, which was not the case with Photoshop 6. It looks Adobe has changed the conversion algorithm used with "save for web", but not into the right direction.

Changing all picture into s-RGB *before* saving for web, creates a better output. But I hate that Microsoft s-RGB because it’s not necessary at all. Now even Adobe force me to use it!

So what I need is a "save for web" algorithm without the conversion to s-RGB. Please Adobe, add a checkbox here…..
TM
Thomas_Madsen
Feb 28, 2004
Yes, I know all about these color spaces. But I did not
presume that "save for web" automatically will convert Adobe RGB into sRGB.

It doesn’t automatically convert to anything (thank god). Save for web just shows you how your image looks in your non-color managed applications (uncompensated color) just like it did in Photoshop 6. I have Photoshop 6, 7 and CS installed and they all behave exactly the same way in Save for web so from my point of view, nothing has changed.

You can change how Save for web shows colors, but uncompensated color is what your non-color managed applications do and that’s probably why uncompensated is the default setting in Save for web.

—
Regards
Madsen
ML
maarten_legene
Feb 28, 2004
Madsen writes:

It doesn’t automatically convert to anything (thank god). Save for web just shows you how your image looks in your non-color managed applications.

It doesn’t only show it, it also converts the image data, using an algorithm. PS 6 gives me another result than PS CS.
Only when I work from start to finish in s-RGB mode, results stay more or less in tune. But I never did that before in PS6 (with better results).
TM
Thomas_Madsen
Feb 28, 2004
It doesn’t only show it, it also converts the image data, using an algorithm. PS 6 gives me another result than PS CS.

Are you only talking about the preview in save for web or are you also talking about how the image looks like in your browser when it’s saved with Save for web?

If I have an Adobe RGB(1998) image in Photoshop and I run it through Save for web, this is what I see:
< http://home18.inet.tele.dk/madsen/photoshop/AdobeRGB_sw_brow ser.jpg> (173 KB).

If the image in Photoshop is in sRGB, this is what I see: < http://home18.inet.tele.dk/madsen/photoshop/sRGB_sw_browser. jpg>. (171 KB).

As you can see, Adobe RGB(199) inside Photoshop is pretty far from what Save for web and my browser shows me. sRGB inside Photoshop is closer to what Save for web and the browser shows me, but it’s not perfect. To get a perfect match, I can soft proof to Monitor RGB inside Photoshop and it’s exactly the same in PS 6, PS 7 and CS here.

—
Regards
Madsen
ML
maarten_legene
Feb 28, 2004
Madsen writes:

Are you only talking about the preview in save for web or are you also talking about how the image looks like in your browser when it’s saved with Save for web?

Before and after it has been saved.

Will have a look at your images !
MV
Mathias_Vejerslev
Feb 28, 2004
Maarten,

Yes, I know all about these color spaces. But I did not presume that "save for web" automatically will convert Adobe RGB into sRGB. Anyway, the results are really awful, which was not the case with Photoshop 6. It looks Adobe has changed the conversion algorithm used with "save for web", but not into the right direction.

Changing all picture into s-RGB *before* saving for web, creates a better output. But I hate that Microsoft s-RGB because it’s not necessary at all. Now even Adobe force me to use it!

So what I need is a "save for web" algorithm without the conversion to s-RGB. Please Adobe, add a checkbox here…..

I hate to say it, but you are wrong on all accounts. Stop speculating, and just follow the given advice. You DO need sRGB when you put anything on the web. Or else, everybody is going to see those desaturated colors you see in the SFW interface…
L
LenHewitt
Feb 28, 2004
Maarten,

View Proof Colours is your friend. Set Proof Colours to Monitor RGB and what you see in Photoshop will be just the same as you see in S4W…..

it also converts the image data, using an algorithm<<

No it doesn’t. It merely displays the SAME data without taking into account the file’s colour space
ML
maarten_legene
Feb 28, 2004
Mathias wrote:

You DO need sRGB when you put anything on the web.

I took some serious lessons from DPReview.com (the ultimate site about digital photography) teaching me exactly the opposite. So this is very confusing. And how was life before sRGB?

Of course I want to know what gives me the best result, so I will take any advice.

Lenhitt wrote:

No it doesn’t. It merely displays the SAME data without taking into account the file’s colour space

Of course it certainly does. It converts the PSD format into a specifically tuned jpg format. It is very interesting to see however, that the "original" in the "save for web" window (2up, 4up etc.) has the same color deviation as the final result will have. In other words, the original in the PSD window differs from the original in the "Save for web" window.

I will now set my proof colors to "Monitor RGB" to see if that’s making sense.
ML
maarten_legene
Feb 28, 2004
Lenhewitt wrote:

View Proof Colours is your friend. Set Proof Colours to Monitor RGB and what you see in Photoshop will be just the same as you see in S4W…..

Len, that’s it! Many thanks !!!
Please explain what’s going on with that one.

Regards / Maarten
L
LenHewitt
Feb 28, 2004
Maarten,

It converts the PSD format into a specifically tuned jpg format. <<

It doesn’t effect the image data, only meta data, and that largely by ignoring data fields. Any changes only happen during the save sequence, such as JPG compression or conversion to Indexed colour for GIFs. There is no change to pixel values other than as a result of the file-format

Colour profiles, XML file data and sizing data is stripped (depending upon your choices of the various Save for Web preferences)

Please explain what’s going on with that one.<<

When you view within the S4W window, you are seeing how the image would appear in an non-colour managed environment
TM
Thomas_Madsen
Feb 28, 2004

[Soft proof to Monitor RGB]

Please explain what’s going on with that one.

When you soft proof to Monitor RGB, Photoshop does the same thing as other non-color managed applications do (your browser for instance). It sends the numbers directly to the monitor without any compensation.

—
Regards
Madsen
L
LenHewitt
Feb 28, 2004
Sorry, Maarten, my last post got truncated:

Please explain what’s going on with that one.<<

When you view within the S4W window, you are seeing how the image would appear in an non-colour managed environment. Viewing Proof colours using Monitor RGB is doing precisely the same thing – it is displaying the raw data in the file as though it was in the monitor colour space which is exactly the situation web users will be in.

What you can’t guarantee is that any other user’s monitor RGB is the same as yours
ML
maarten_legene
Feb 29, 2004
Madsen en Lenhitt, many thanks for your explanation.

Maarten

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