Mixing colors on Photoshop

wrote:

I am trying to learn Photoshop and have run into a problem.
I have a good bit of training in traditional oil painting. I think of color as it is mixed on a palette. Trying to find colors on Photoshop is very frustrating as I can normally not find the color I want much less variations. I seem to not be able to make the mental switch to Photoshop’s way of thinking about color. When one gets older the mind loses some flexibility I guess.

Does any one know of a plug in or separate program which will allow me to mix colors like I would paint then transfer the colors to Photoshop. I looked at Corel Painter but it is a tad pricy.
I am using ps7 right now and will upgrade to cs2 when and if I think I need the extra tools.

Any help would be very much appreciated.

MMMMM:

I havn’t come across any such software…

THere is no visual way of doing this within photoshop (i dont think) YOu can use channel mixer and stuff but i dont think thats what you’re after

I think youll just have to perservere through the mental switch!

If you are upgrading i would wait for cs3 (2nd quarter 2007) unless there is some urgency

Which version of Photoshop do you have?

wrote in message

I am trying to learn Photoshop and have run into a problem.
I have a good bit of training in traditional oil painting. I think of color as it is mixed on a palette. Trying to find colors on Photoshop is very frustrating as I can normally not find the color I want much less variations. I seem to not be able to make the mental switch to Photoshop’s way of thinking about color. When one gets older the mind loses some flexibility I guess.

Does any one know of a plug in or separate program which will allow me to mix colors like I would paint then transfer the colors to Photoshop. I looked at Corel Painter but it is a tad pricy.
I am using ps7 right now and will upgrade to cs2 when and if I think I need the extra tools.

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Mike Forrest

"Frank Arthur" wrote in message

Which version of Photoshop do you have?

wrote in message

I am trying to learn Photoshop and have run into a problem.
I have a good bit of training in traditional oil painting. I think of color as it is mixed on a palette. Trying to find colors on Photoshop is very frustrating as I can normally not find the color I want much less variations. I seem to not be able to make the mental switch to Photoshop’s way of thinking about color. When one gets older the mind loses some flexibility I guess.

Does any one know of a plug in or separate program which will allow me to mix colors like I would paint then transfer the colors to Photoshop. I looked at Corel Painter but it is a tad pricy.
I am using ps7 right now and will upgrade to cs2 when and if I think I need the extra tools.

As he said: " I am using ps7 right now…

—
Ray
UK

Go to Windows/Color and a RGB box appears with three sliders.

wrote in message

I am trying to learn Photoshop and have run into a problem.
I have a good bit of training in traditional oil painting. I think of color as it is mixed on a palette. Trying to find colors on Photoshop is very frustrating as I can normally not find the color I want much less variations. I seem to not be able to make the mental switch to Photoshop’s way of thinking about color. When one gets older the mind loses some flexibility I guess.

Does any one know of a plug in or separate program which will allow me to mix colors like I would paint then transfer the colors to Photoshop. I looked at Corel Painter but it is a tad pricy.
I am using ps7 right now and will upgrade to cs2 when and if I think I need the extra tools.

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Mike Forrest

In article , says…

I am trying to learn Photoshop and have run into a problem.
I have a good bit of training in traditional oil painting. I think of color as it is mixed on a palette. Trying to find colors on Photoshop is very frustrating as I can normally not find the color I want much less variations. I seem to not be able to make the mental switch to Photoshop’s way of thinking about color. When one gets older the mind loses some flexibility I guess.

Does any one know of a plug in or separate program which will allow me to mix colors like I would paint then transfer the colors to Photoshop. I looked at Corel Painter but it is a tad pricy.
I am using ps7 right now and will upgrade to cs2 when and if I think I need the extra tools.

Any help would be very much appreciated.

Mike Forrest

RGB is the hardest to use from an ‘artistic experience’ point of view. Using CMYK may feel a little more natural, as it
is not all that different than painting with a limited palette of three colours plus black. When I get stuck, I
sometimes cruise through my photo albumn until I find a ‘close enough’ colour, then use the eye-dropper on it and
record the RGB or CMYK of it. it isn’t too hard then to darken/lighten it a little to get exactly what I want.
Mike

wrote in message

I have a good bit of training in traditional oil painting. I think of color as it is mixed on a palette. Trying to find colors on Photoshop is very frustrating as I can normally not find the color I want much less variations.

Photoshop has so many ways of picking colors, I would think you could find one to your liking. Are you using the Adobe color picker, the Windows color picker, the color palette, the swatches palette, or what?

Mike,

oil or water painting ‘ink’s contain pigments with very
dissimilar features.
Mathematical descriptions, e.g. spectra, are IMO not
available.
One solution:
Measure the CIELab values of pure ‘inks’ (your set) on
the substrate and combine them in a palette.
E.g. by X-Rite DTP-22 (very expensive) or by Pantone
Color Cue.
This instrument delivers the Lab values for the nearest
Pantone spot color, which might be sufficient.
Many real world inks are out of gamut for any monitor.
This is the first reason which prevents from getting
correct previews.
The second is the absence of reliable color mixing
models.
Mixing offset ink is not the same as mixing painting
inks.
Similar conclusions by an expert:
http://tinyurl.com/ygrn4p

Best regards –Gernot Hoffmann

R: 249, G:244, B:006 Cadmium Lemon
R: 244, G:237, B:001 Yellow
R: 241, G:167, B:016 Cadmium Yellow
R: 231, G:129, B:053 Cadmium Orange
R: 225, G:036, B:066 Cadmium Red
R: 231, G:081, B:110 Rose Madder
R: 166, G:036, B:046 Alizarin Crimson
R: 208, G:042, B:064 Permanent Alizarin Crimson
R: 089, G:179, B:208 Cerulean Blue
R: 001, G:118, B:188 Cobalt Blue
R: 069, G:057, B:140 Deep Cobalt Blue
R: 053, G:079, B:151 French Ultramarine
R: 047, G:058, B:127 Prussian Blue
R: 008, G:014, B:019 Indigo
R: 028, G:087, B:097 Phthalo Blue
R: 002, G:168, B:119 Viridian
R: 255, G:243, B:171 Light Naples Yellow
R: 251, G:219, B:132 Naples Yellow
R: 205, G:141, B:066 Raw Sienna
R: 185, G:075, B:048 Burnt Sienna
R: 137, G:079, B:055 Brown Oxide
R: 037, G:025, B:029 Vandyke Brown
R: 255, G:255, B:255 Titanium White

leslie

ushere wrote:

R: 249, G:244, B:006 Cadmium Lemon
R: 244, G:237, B:001 Yellow
R: 241, G:167, B:016 Cadmium Yellow
R: 231, G:129, B:053 Cadmium Orange
R: 225, G:036, B:066 Cadmium Red
R: 231, G:081, B:110 Rose Madder
R: 166, G:036, B:046 Alizarin Crimson
R: 208, G:042, B:064 Permanent Alizarin Crimson
R: 089, G:179, B:208 Cerulean Blue
R: 001, G:118, B:188 Cobalt Blue
R: 069, G:057, B:140 Deep Cobalt Blue
R: 053, G:079, B:151 French Ultramarine
R: 047, G:058, B:127 Prussian Blue
R: 008, G:014, B:019 Indigo
R: 028, G:087, B:097 Phthalo Blue
R: 002, G:168, B:119 Viridian
R: 255, G:243, B:171 Light Naples Yellow
R: 251, G:219, B:132 Naples Yellow
R: 205, G:141, B:066 Raw Sienna
R: 185, G:075, B:048 Burnt Sienna
R: 137, G:079, B:055 Brown Oxide
R: 037, G:025, B:029 Vandyke Brown
R: 255, G:255, B:255 Titanium White

leslie

Very nice Leslie, thanks.
Ron

ushere schrieb:

R: 249, G:244, B:006 Cadmium Lemon
R: 244, G:237, B:001 Yellow

etc. …

Defining real world surface colors by numbers in an
unspecified RGB space is a blatant nonsense.

A surface color is defined by a reflectance factor
spectrum, calculating the reflected light under a
certain illuminant like D50.

Without knowing the reflectance factor spectrum,
color mixture calculation is doomed to fail.

Here is at least some reliable information about
spot inks:
http://www.fho-emden.de/~hoffmann/swatch16032005.pdf

Obviously, many spots have either in sRGB or in
AdobeRGB(98) clipped values RGB=0 or RGB=255.
These real world surface colors cannot be handled by
sRGB or AdobeRGB(98) correctly.
E.g. a bright pigment yellow or orange ink is under all
circumstances out of gamut for a monitor.

For the OP: reading the books by Johannes Itten
(at Amazon) is a good starting point for ‘artist’s color theory’ versus ‘scientific color theory’.
Both theories can co-exist, IMO.

Best regards –Gernot Hoffmann

ushere wrote:
R: 249, G:244, B:006 Cadmium Lemon
R: 244, G:237, B:001 Yellow
R: 241, G:167, B:016 Cadmium Yellow
R: 231, G:129, B:053 Cadmium Orange
R: 225, G:036, B:066 Cadmium Red
R: 231, G:081, B:110 Rose Madder
R: 166, G:036, B:046 Alizarin Crimson
R: 208, G:042, B:064 Permanent Alizarin Crimson
R: 089, G:179, B:208 Cerulean Blue
R: 001, G:118, B:188 Cobalt Blue
R: 069, G:057, B:140 Deep Cobalt Blue
R: 053, G:079, B:151 French Ultramarine
R: 047, G:058, B:127 Prussian Blue
R: 008, G:014, B:019 Indigo
R: 028, G:087, B:097 Phthalo Blue
R: 002, G:168, B:119 Viridian
R: 255, G:243, B:171 Light Naples Yellow
R: 251, G:219, B:132 Naples Yellow
R: 205, G:141, B:066 Raw Sienna
R: 185, G:075, B:048 Burnt Sienna
R: 137, G:079, B:055 Brown Oxide
R: 037, G:025, B:029 Vandyke Brown
R: 255, G:255, B:255 Titanium White

leslie

Without specifying a "working space" these numbers are meaningless … download these three images and assign the correct profile in Photoshop when you open them (the profile is in the name) and they look about the same, but viewed without profile information (like on your web browser) they look entirely different …

Cardinal red

158/53/0 in Adobe RGB
144/86/46 in ProPhoto
200/77/39 in sRGB

http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/hilton_adobergb.jpg
http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/hilton_prophoto.jpg
http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/hilton_srgb.jpg

Bill

Without specifying a "working space" these numbers are meaningless … download these three images and assign the correct profile in Photoshop when you open them (the profile is in the name) and they look about the same, but viewed without profile information (like on your web browser) they look entirely different …

Cardinal red

158/53/0 in Adobe RGB
144/86/46 in ProPhoto
200/77/39 in sRGB

http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/hilton_adobergb.jpg
http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/hilton_prophoto.jpg
http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/hilton_srgb.jpg

Bill

The surprising thing for me is how different the mean of these sets of numbers are. I don’t really see that kind of value change when I move between Adobe RGB and sRGB. Does Photoshop provide some kind of virtual view for non-sRGB color spaces?

Thanks,
Ron

Without specifying a "working space" these numbers are meaningless … download these three images and assign the correct profile in Photoshop when you open them (the profile is in the name) and they look about the same, but viewed without profile information (like on your web browser) they look entirely different …

Cardinal red

158/53/0 in Adobe RGB
144/86/46 in ProPhoto
200/77/39 in sRGB

http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/hilton_adobergb.jpg
http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/hilton_prophoto.jpg
http://members.aol.com/bhilton665/hilton_srgb.jpg

Bill

wrote:
The surprising thing for me is how different the mean of these sets of numbers are. I don’t really see that kind of value change when I move between Adobe RGB and sRGB.

These numbers were assigned by a RAW converter, not by converting between spaces. I converted the same RAW file three times, each time to a different profile.

Does Photoshop provide some kind of
virtual view for non-sRGB color spaces?

In an ICC managed workflow I guess you could say everything is a "virtual view", based on the profiles.

Not sure what you mean by "non-sRGB" in this context … the distinction probably should be between images with a working space tag (sRGB or any other) vs images with no tag.

Bill

ushere wrote:

R: 208, G:042, B:064 Permanent Alizarin Crimson

leslie

Leslie, not to beat this to death, but here’s a simple experiment you can run to see why this RGB value needs a ‘working space’ defined before it can be accurately used …

* in Photoshop do cntrl-n four times to make new blank files, naming these four srgb, adobergb, prophoto, and colormatch … probably all are either in sRGB or AdobeRGB working spaces so do Image – Mode – Convert to Profile to set all of the blank files to the named profiles (probably only have to convert 3 since one is likely already in the right space).

* set the Foreground color to "R: 208, G:042, B:064 Permanent Alizarin Crimson" by clicking the Foreground color box and using the Color Picker to set the RGB values …

* use the Rectangular marquee tool to draw a small box, say 100×100 pixels in one of the files and do Edit – Fill and select ‘Foreground Color’ … repeat for all four files and compare the colors … even though they all have the same RGB values the colors will look different, varying shades of red.

This is why we’re saying you need to define a working space with the RGB values …

Bill

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 08:47:10 GMT, ushere
wrote:

R: 249, G:244, B:006 Cadmium Lemon
R: 244, G:237, B:001 Yellow
R: 241, G:167, B:016 Cadmium Yellow
R: 231, G:129, B:053 Cadmium Orange
R: 225, G:036, B:066 Cadmium Red
R: 231, G:081, B:110 Rose Madder
R: 166, G:036, B:046 Alizarin Crimson
R: 208, G:042, B:064 Permanent Alizarin Crimson
R: 089, G:179, B:208 Cerulean Blue
R: 001, G:118, B:188 Cobalt Blue
R: 069, G:057, B:140 Deep Cobalt Blue
R: 053, G:079, B:151 French Ultramarine
R: 047, G:058, B:127 Prussian Blue
R: 008, G:014, B:019 Indigo
R: 028, G:087, B:097 Phthalo Blue
R: 002, G:168, B:119 Viridian
R: 255, G:243, B:171 Light Naples Yellow
R: 251, G:219, B:132 Naples Yellow
R: 205, G:141, B:066 Raw Sienna
R: 185, G:075, B:048 Burnt Sienna
R: 137, G:079, B:055 Brown Oxide
R: 037, G:025, B:029 Vandyke Brown
R: 255, G:255, B:255 Titanium White

leslie

Thanks for this. Should be very helpful and is appreciated.

My primary issue that is so difficult for me is adjustments to color. For example, say I have Cadmium Yellow and I want to put in a touch of burnt umber and maybe a slight pinch of Naples yellow. I have not been able to figure out how to do this in photoshop. I have thought of doing layers for each color but have not experimented with this yet. Kinda frustrating. Any hints from anyone would be very very appreciated.

Yours Dizfriz
Thanks to all for the kind responses.

wrote in message

On Thu, 26 Oct 2006 08:47:10 GMT, ushere
wrote:

R: 249, G:244, B:006 Cadmium Lemon
R: 244, G:237, B:001 Yellow
R: 241, G:167, B:016 Cadmium Yellow
R: 231, G:129, B:053 Cadmium Orange
R: 225, G:036, B:066 Cadmium Red
R: 231, G:081, B:110 Rose Madder
R: 166, G:036, B:046 Alizarin Crimson
R: 208, G:042, B:064 Permanent Alizarin Crimson
R: 089, G:179, B:208 Cerulean Blue
R: 001, G:118, B:188 Cobalt Blue
R: 069, G:057, B:140 Deep Cobalt Blue
R: 053, G:079, B:151 French Ultramarine
R: 047, G:058, B:127 Prussian Blue
R: 008, G:014, B:019 Indigo
R: 028, G:087, B:097 Phthalo Blue
R: 002, G:168, B:119 Viridian
R: 255, G:243, B:171 Light Naples Yellow
R: 251, G:219, B:132 Naples Yellow
R: 205, G:141, B:066 Raw Sienna
R: 185, G:075, B:048 Burnt Sienna
R: 137, G:079, B:055 Brown Oxide
R: 037, G:025, B:029 Vandyke Brown
R: 255, G:255, B:255 Titanium White

leslie

Thanks for this. Should be very helpful and is appreciated.
My primary issue that is so difficult for me is adjustments to color. For example, say I have Cadmium Yellow and I want to put in a touch of burnt umber and maybe a slight pinch of Naples yellow. I have not been able to figure out how to do this in photoshop. I have thought of doing layers for each color but have not experimented with this yet. Kinda frustrating. Any hints from anyone would be very very appreciated.

Yours Dizfriz
Thanks to all for the kind responses.

click the color in the swatch palette closest to your desired color then move the sliders up and down for changing hues
top to bottom on the diagonal for tint and shades

I mean all this scientific knowledge is nice (and confusing) but is that what you need?
when you paint do you do it by numbers? by the name of the colors? or by what looks good to your eyes?
the palettes have a LOT of colors to choose, not enough? customize them I don’t see how layering colors would help unless you use some blend mode like color and layer a box of three colors over each other and then eyedropper? sounds like waste of time.

why are you "painting" in PS? instead of a paint program like Painter? for very specific colors just type in a pantone number?