Pantone Huey

BW
Posted By
Bob Williams
Dec 26, 2006
Views
937
Replies
10
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Closed
Has anyone here used this little $75 monitor calibrator? It has a pretty good pedigree…..Gretag-MacBeth/Pantone Does it offer any advantages over Adobe Gamma other than being quantitative rather than relying on your own judgment for determining color balance?
Bob Williams

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K
KatWoman
Dec 26, 2006
"Bob Williams" wrote in message
Has anyone here used this little $75 monitor calibrator? It has a pretty good pedigree…..Gretag-MacBeth/Pantone Does it offer any advantages over Adobe Gamma other than being quantitative rather than relying on your own judgment for determining color balance?
Bob Williams

I got the advert for it
looks interesting let me know if you try it
L
leon
Dec 27, 2006
"Bob Williams" wrote in message
Has anyone here used this little $75 monitor calibrator? It has a pretty good pedigree…..Gretag-MacBeth/Pantone Does it offer any advantages over Adobe Gamma other than being quantitative rather than relying on your own judgment for determining color balance?
Bob Williams

i had used adobe gamma for a long time and thought that it was ok with screen etc, after seeing adverts for Huey i decided to give it a try (the price was right) and now would never go back to adobe gamma, Huey does a good job with my crt, well worth the money.
K
KatWoman
Dec 27, 2006
"leon" wrote in message
"Bob Williams" wrote in message
Has anyone here used this little $75 monitor calibrator? It has a pretty good pedigree…..Gretag-MacBeth/Pantone Does it offer any advantages over Adobe Gamma other than being quantitative rather than relying on your own judgment for determining color balance?
Bob Williams

i had used adobe gamma for a long time and thought that it was ok with screen etc, after seeing adverts for Huey i decided to give it a try (the price was right) and now would never go back to adobe gamma, Huey does a good job with my crt, well worth the money.

I just switched to my first LCD
L
leon
Dec 27, 2006
"KatWoman" wrote in message
"leon" wrote in message
"Bob Williams" wrote in message
Has anyone here used this little $75 monitor calibrator? It has a pretty good pedigree…..Gretag-MacBeth/Pantone Does it offer any advantages over Adobe Gamma other than being quantitative rather than relying on your own judgment for determining color balance?
Bob Williams

i had used adobe gamma for a long time and thought that it was ok with screen etc, after seeing adverts for Huey i decided to give it a try (the price was right) and now would never go back to adobe gamma, Huey does a good job with my crt, well worth the money.

I just switched to my first LCD
It works with lcd also but don’t stick it to the screen with the suckers. Checkout this review:
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/reviews/pantone_huey.html
K
Ken
Dec 28, 2006
How does one *know* that a particular calibrator has done a good job?

I have a Spyder2Pro but I have not worked out way to test whether or not it has done a good job.

What paremeters can one use to asses the quality of the calibration?

Ken Lipworth

In article <H4tkh.24362$>,
"leon" wrote:

i had used adobe gamma for a long time and thought that it was ok with screen etc, after seeing adverts for Huey i decided to give it a try (the price was right) and now would never go back to adobe gamma, Huey does a good job with my crt, well worth the money.
L
leon
Dec 28, 2006
"Ken" wrote in message
How does one *know* that a particular calibrator has done a good job?
I have a Spyder2Pro but I have not worked out way to test whether or not it has done a good job.

What paremeters can one use to asses the quality of the calibration?

Ken Lipworth

In article <H4tkh.24362$>,
"leon" wrote:

i had used adobe gamma for a long time and thought that it was ok with screen etc, after seeing adverts for Huey i decided to give it a try (the price was right) and now would never go back to adobe gamma, Huey does a good job with my crt, well worth the money.

The way i discovered the real difference was when i had to restore a drive image from before i had setup Huey, this was after i had been using Huey for a few months, the difference was very noticeable, ie the screen was quite green tinted.
Admittedly when initially setting up Huey the before and after shots did not seem so different but returning to the previous adobe gamma calibration after a few months of Huey really made me see the difference.
K
Ken
Dec 28, 2006
I can understand that one can see a difference ( I have seen it myself) but how does one know that the result is *correct*. Just being different doesn’t guarantee correctness.

I suppose one way would be if one could get a test card that is accurately printed within extremely tightly controlled parameters and get a digital file of the same pattern.

One could then compare the image on the monitor to that on the card to verify the calibration.

Is there such a combination of hard copy and digital file available?

I can probably borrow a Pantone colour chart. If I made up a digital image with dots of various colours produced in Photoshop using the colour picker to set the brush to various Pantone numbers, and then compare the dots in the image to the Pantone colour chartt would this achieve the desired result?

It would be a brain-numbing task to set up the digital file but in absence of a commercial product it may be an option.

Ken

In article <tfOkh.420$>,
"leon" wrote:
The way i discovered the real difference was when i had to restore a drive image from before i had setup Huey, this was after i had been using Huey for a few months, the difference was very noticeable, ie the screen was quite green tinted.
Admittedly when initially setting up Huey the before and after shots did not seem so different but returning to the previous adobe gamma calibration after a few months of Huey really made me see the difference.
MR
Mike Russell
Dec 29, 2006
"Ken" wrote in message
I can understand that one can see a difference ( I have seen it myself) but how does one know that the result is *correct*. Just being different doesn’t guarantee correctness.

Hi Ken,

Well, you’re asking all the right questions. It’s not one person in a hundred who would think to ask for the receipt for the Emperor’s clothing, and you appear to be one of them. Most people will simply go through the procedure, see a change in their monitor appearance, and move on, confident (rightly or wrongly) that their display has been anointed with the holy oil of calibration.

I suppose one way would be if one could get a test card that is accurately printed within extremely tightly controlled parameters and get a digital file of the same pattern.

One could then compare the image on the monitor to that on the card to verify the calibration.

Is there such a combination of hard copy and digital file available?

Yes, there are any number of them. The Gretag-Macbeth Color Checker is very very popular – costs 90 dollars or more, and there are web pages where the RGB and Lab numbers for the squares are published, as well as TIFF images of the chart, using idealized numbers. The problem is, the Color Checker was designed strictly as a visual checker, and not intended to be used for this purpose.

There’s another chart, called the IT8 target, that is designed to characterize specific film emulsions for a scanner. The chart comes in both transparency form, and printed on various paper emulsions. Wolf Faust sells these at a very reasonable 40 dollars or so, including shipping from Germany, and this includes a floppy with Lab numbers for each of the squares. This would give you an idea of how close in your display is, but is probably not a reliable way to do so because the chart was designed with film in mind, not your display.

I can probably borrow a Pantone colour chart. If I made up a digital image with dots of various colours produced in Photoshop using the colour picker to set the brush to various Pantone numbers, and then compare the dots in the image to the Pantone colour chart would this achieve the desired result?

Still, the problem is that your screen does a great job on reds, greens, and blues, and a poor job on magenta, cyan, and yellow, so any printed target is going to leave some corners of your display uncovered.

It would be a brain-numbing task to set up the digital file but in absence of a commercial product it may be an option.

There is no reason you couldn’t make one from common objects, and I’ve done a small amount of work in this direction. For example, a box of Crayola Crayons contains more colors than a Color Checker, and costs a dollar or two. I’ve scanned these values in, and made the values of the crayons, certain brands of paint chips, and other common objects, available in text form here:
http://www.curvemeister.com/downloads/pins/

These are pin files, intended to be used with Curvemeister, but you can open them as normal text files to get the Lab color numbers for each "pin".

I think if you came up with a procedure based on comparing inexpensively available target colors with a digital image, you would do the graphics word a service. Or you could do what most people do: spend some money on an instrument, and cross your fingers.

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com/forum/
K
Ken
Dec 30, 2006
Mike

In article <W14lh.5183$>,
"Mike Russell" wrote:

Yes, there are any number of them. The Gretag-Macbeth Color Checker is very very popular – costs 90 dollars or more, and there are web pages where the RGB and Lab numbers for the squares are published, as well as TIFF images of the chart, using idealized numbers.

What do you mean by ‘idealized’?

The problem is, the Color Checker was
designed strictly as a visual checker, and not intended to be used for this purpose.

Even though it wasn’t *designed* for this purpose, might it not suffice?
Still, the problem is that your screen does a great job on reds, greens, and blues, and a poor job on magenta, cyan, and yellow, so any printed target is going to leave some corners of your display uncovered.

I don’t quite follow this, but I’ll give it more thought. I am still very new to the world of colour management so it takes a while for me to get my head around some of the concepts.

It would be a brain-numbing task to set up the digital file but in absence of a commercial product it may be an option.

There is no reason you couldn’t make one from common objects, and I’ve done a small amount of work in this direction. For example, a box of Crayola Crayons contains more colors than a Color Checker, and costs a dollar or two. I’ve scanned these values in, and made the values of the crayons, certain brands of paint chips, and other common objects, available in text form here:
http://www.curvemeister.com/downloads/pins/

Thanks for sharing these data with us.

How consistent have you found Crayola crayons to be? Have you sampled a few different boxes?

BTW, the Lego file seems to have only instructions for the format of your pin files and no data about the blocks.

These are pin files, intended to be used with Curvemeister, but you can open them as normal text files to get the Lab color numbers for each "pin".

The only tool I have available (that I am aware of) to produce a digital file using Lab values is Photoshop CS2. PS only accepts integer values, while your values cited are to two decimal points. How significant are the decimal points? Would rounding to the nearest interger significantly affect the results?

I think if you came up with a procedure based on comparing inexpensively available target colors with a digital image, you would do the graphics word a service. Or you could do what most people do: spend some money on an instrument, and cross your fingers.

Let’s assume one finds a way to *check* the calibration and finds that the calibration is inaccurate in a certain area. How easy/difficult is it to adjust a profile file to make the necessary corrections?

As a matter of interest, how do *you* calibrate your monitors?

Ken
MR
Mike Russell
Dec 31, 2006
"Ken" wrote in message

(I said)
Yes, there are any number of them. The Gretag-Macbeth Color Checker is very
very popular – costs 90 dollars or more, and there are web pages where the
RGB and Lab numbers for the squares are published, as well as TIFF images of
the chart, using idealized numbers.

What do you mean by ‘idealized’?

By idealized, I mean they have been arrived at by an unknown process, presumably involving averaging several charts together. In fact, GM publishes XYZ values for the color patches, but it’s problematic how to convert these values to RGB – which should give you an idea of where applied color science is at right now.

The problem is, the Color Checker was
designed strictly as a visual checker, and not intended to be used for this
purpose.

Even though it wasn’t *designed* for this purpose, might it not suffice?

I suppose so, but most people would say no. You wouldn’t believe the level of complexity involved in determining whether it would work or not. As an example of the kind of discussions that go on, here are some words from Tom Lianza, a color authority at GMB, about using the chart to calibrate a camera:

1. When asked, I suggested to the Munsell folks that we DO NOT publish target information, other than what had been published in the original work done by McCamy. The color checker was never intended to be a colorimetric calibration target, so publishing standard values would imply a use for which it was not initially designed. I did point out that we needed to make a reference to sRGB because the target had been co-opted by so many media sources as a measure of camera accuracy. This would need to be done with great care because it is a very difficult problem. I don’t think there was enough time for too much discussion, so we find ourselves in the situation that we are in today.

2. The ColorChecker has a unique set of colorants which are designed to reflect (pardon the pun) a range of colors based upon naturally occurring spectra. This means that the colors themselves, will not appear constant under varying types of illumination and that in most situations, the colors will change visibly with respect to one another under gross changes of illumination.

Still, the problem is that your screen does a great job on reds, greens, and
blues, and a poor job on magenta, cyan, and yellow, so any printed target is
going to leave some corners of your display uncovered.

I don’t quite follow this, but I’ll give it more thought. I am still very new to the world of colour management so it takes a while for me to get my head around some of the concepts.

The short answer is that the colors on the chart do not cover the pure colors that your monitor is capable of generating, nor do they cover the same range of brightnesses. For these reasons, and others, using a Color Checker to set up your display will probably not work very well, though it may help.

It would be a brain-numbing task to set up the digital file but in absence of a commercial product it may be an option.

There is no reason you couldn’t make one from common objects, and I’ve done
a small amount of work in this direction. For example, a box of Crayola Crayons contains more colors than a Color Checker, and costs a dollar or two. I’ve scanned these values in, and made the values of the crayons, certain brands of paint chips, and other common objects, available in text
form here:
http://www.curvemeister.com/downloads/pins/

Thanks for sharing these data with us.

How consistent have you found Crayola crayons to be? Have you sampled a few different boxes?

My secret sources in Eaton, Pennsylvania claim that the colors are carefully controlled within a deltaE of 3. OTOH, the formulation changes from time to time. I’ve compared older crayons with my newer set and the colors are different.

BTW – Munsel, the father of color theory, was also the inventor of crayons, and sold the rights to market them in North America to Binney and Smith (the Crayola company), whose marketing weenies promptly changed the names of the colors. Originally, the colors had numeric names, something like Green 2 blue 3 for blue green, and these are still used in Europe today to specify colors rather precisely.
http://www.cis.rit.edu/fairchild/PDFs/PAP21.pdf

BTW, the Lego file seems to have only instructions for the format of your pin files and no data about the blocks.

Thanks for pointing this out.

These are pin files, intended to be used with Curvemeister, but you can open
them as normal text files to get the Lab color numbers for each "pin".

The only tool I have available (that I am aware of) to produce a digital file using Lab values is Photoshop CS2. PS only accepts integer values, while your values cited are to two decimal points. How significant are the decimal points? Would rounding to the nearest interger significantly affect the results?

Yes, you can round them off. If you want RGB values, use Linebloom’s calculator to convert:
http://brucelindbloom.com/index.html?Home.html (lots of interesting stuff here, BTW)

I think if you came up with a procedure based on comparing inexpensively available target colors with a digital image, you would do the graphics word
a service. Or you could do what most people do: spend some money on an instrument, and cross your fingers.

Let’s assume one finds a way to *check* the calibration and finds that the calibration is inaccurate in a certain area. How easy/difficult is it to adjust a profile file to make the necessary corrections?

If you have the time and energy to persue this, Timo Autiokari (a nemesis to many traditionalists), has devised some very interesting charts, sort of like Adobe Gamma on steroids, that will check your disaply’s gamma for individual channels. Be careful, though, this is a little like the beginning of Dorothy’s adventure, and there are lions and tigers and bears: some of Timo’s ideas are excellent, particularly the calibration charts. Other of his ideas require independent thinking and evaluation. I guess what I’m saying is he’s a great guy, but don’t take everything he says at face value. He is also very good an answering questions, so you may fine, as I did, that he is a valuable resource.
http://www.aim-dtp.net/

As a matter of interest, how do *you* calibrate your monitors?

I use an Eye One Display 2 Pro. I have to do this because I teach an online class (free – starts Sunday the 7th) and I need to reassure people that my monitor colors are reasonable. I would emphasize that a calibration device is not that great a benefit, and many people buy them who don’t really need them, and are disappointed when their printed output still does not match the display.

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com/forum/

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