Thanks Len, but I’ve used that link in the past. I do everything on that page. As I mentioned in the initial post, I use the Epson2100/2200 Semigloss ICC profile and switch off color mangement in the printer driver.
That is not really the issue. The problem is that my screen shows images as being more orange than the printer. Everything else is OK. All I really want to know is how I can best change my monitor display to look less orange and more red!
Iain
Adobe Gamma,
Or invest in a screen calibrator.
Iain,
It may be that you are using a poor monitor profile.
Open one of your images that appears orange and via the View menu choose "Proof Setup > Monitor RGB". Please describe how the image now appears.
Ian
If I select Monitor RGB the images go even more towards Orange! Going back to Working CYMK is better, but still orange compared to the print. Iain
Iain,
If the images print OK, but they look orange then it is possible that your monitor profile is bad.
Have a look at the image on the page linked to below and report how it appears
<
http://www.computer-darkroom.com/images/without-profile.jpg>
You shouldn’t see any colour cast in the browser. You should save the image to your hard drive and then open in Photoshop. Again, it should display without a colour cast. It may look a bit more saturated/contrasty than in the browser.
Ian,
In the browser (IE), the image looks good. Opening it in PS, the reds look more orange. As you suggest, the colours are more contrasty and saturated.
Basically, this is the same effect as I have been describing. What does this tell you?
Iain
I’m experiencing the same problem. All other applications display colours fine, only in photoshop do they look like a lighter cyan or blue (perhaps orange).
Dreamweaver and IE look fine – and when I save the output from PS, the image colours display correctly in anyother app. It’s got to be a setting in PS, but where!?!
Wait….got it, but not sure if it’s right. Looks ok though…
I clicked view > proof setup > Monitor RGB. But, any new docs go back to the funky colours…must be a default setting somewhere…
Well, turned out (as I recall), I updated my monitor drivers to the specific manufacture drivers instead of using the microsoft ‘plug and play’ drivers. Guess the change messed up my photoshop, as there was a color management profile created with the new drivers. Did a driver roll-back, and everything is back the way it should.
In my exploration though, I think the area I would have had to check would be under ‘edit > color settings…’. There is a list of working spaces color profiles – and I noticed the settings in there were refering to my monitor specific drivers. Rather than rolling back, I’m sure I could have found the correct profile – but the roll-back was quicker…:)
By the way, this was in PS 7 on winxp….hope this helps someone as new to PS as myself.
It says you need to create a new monitor profile…
OK, the plot thickens!
It would seem that if I am using Adobe RGB as the ‘working space’ there is a definite orangy bias. If however, I convert the image to CYMK or just tick ‘proof colours’ using ‘working CYMK’ the orangeness goes away and the image looks right.
A similar thing happens if I select ‘Monitor RGB’ as the working space instead of ‘Adobe RGB 1998’. Selecting ‘Monitor RGB’ does however turn off Color Management Policy for RGB.
Any further comments guys?
Thanks
Iain
You apparently need a new profile for your display. Ian Lyons Image Flow <
http://www.btinternet.com/~ian.lyons/ps7-colour/ps7_color.gi f>
..
The difference between the way Ian Lyons’ test image looks in your browser and the way it looks in Photoshop is :
1) Interpretation by the monitor profile ( doesn’t happen in browser ),
2) Interpretation of RGB numbers by working space e.g. AdobeRGB, BruceRGB, etc ( doesn’t happen in browser).
Unless your colorspace definitions ( profiles ) are screwed up, it seems that the problem must be in your monitor profile.
🙂
Brent
I am so confused!
Sorry to be labouring this point, but it’s driving me crazy!
1) why is it that the images look OK when I select CYMK or Proof colors?
2) where do I find my monitor ICC file? and why is it a problem with that profile if it displays OK in CYMK or if I select ‘no colour management’ when opening an image?
3) my monitor is a Hitachi CML190SX LCD/TFT connected via the digital socket, and apart from brightness, there is nothing to adjust. Can’t adjust contrast, colour, temperature, etc. It can of course be done in the video (ATI) driver options.
4) I have the same problem in Corel Draw. With color management set to default, reds look more orange. With Color management switched off they look fine!
Thanks Iain
1) why is it that the images look OK when I select CYMK or Proof colors?
Difference in interpretation of colour data
2) where do I find my monitor ICC file? and why is it a problem with that profile if it displays OK in CYMK or if I select ‘no colour management’ when opening an image?
Because no colour management ignores the profile.
4) I have the same problem in Corel Draw. With color management set to default, reds look more orange. With Color management switched off they look fine!
Again, redo your monitor profile from scratch (don’t start with the old one)
And read up on CM.
Read up on CM??? I’m sick of reading about it!! I’m fully aware of the principles of CM, it’s just that I don’t seem to be able to put them into practice!
Again, maybe I’m being stupid, but how do I create a monitor profile that makes red red and not orange?
If ‘no color management’ works, why do I need to bother with a monitor profile?
Adobe Gamma doesn’t work for reasons I stated earlier, i.e. the only thing I can adjust on the monitor is brightness.
Aarrgghh!
Iain,
3) my monitor is a Hitachi CML190SX LCD/TFT connected via the digital socket
So what do you use to calibrate the display?
Without a profile that "accurately" represents the colour characteristics of your display your chances of getting accurate previews in Photoshop are limited.
Thanks Ian. Are you saying that the only answer is to buy a commercial profiler? I still can’t see that if prints are OK, then why isn’t there a simple tool to adjust screen colours to match the print?
I still can’t see that if prints are OK, then why isn’t there a simple tool to adjust screen colours to match the print?
a) Most monitors have said "simple tools"…
b) The best people who do coloour corrections are _still_ less accurate than a colorimeter
c) Prints and monitors hav diffrent colour gammuts. Some printed colours cannot be accuratly displayed (cyan for example), many displayed colours cannot be accurately printed (pue red, green or blue for example)
Imacken,
why isn’t there a simple tool to adjust screen colours to match the
print?<<
Does this help?
The numbers in an image file do not represent specific colours. For example, 100R, 0G, 0B just means "make the brightest, most saturated red you can". It doesn’t mean a specific SHADE of red, and the red that will result will depend upon the capabilities of the device the data is being sent to (usually either a monitor or printer of some sort).
Only when coupled with an ICC profile that describes the ‘colour space’ do those numbers represent a specific shade.
There is data in a file. That data doesn’t represent specific colours UNTIL the colour space is stated (embedded profile or assign profile).
The working profile sets up the colour space you are working in, and the embedded profile allows the CM engine to convert the file data values to your working space values so those values still represent the same colour as originally indicated by the file data and embedded profile.
The monitor profile alters that data from your working space on the fly to allow the monitor to display the colours represented by the data within the working space profile.
When you print, the output profile alters the data to allow the printer to reproduce the colours represented by the data and the image profile.
The monitor profile effectively drops out of the equation when you print.
Provided the ‘translation’ from working space to monitor is correct AND the translation from working space to output device is correct, the print will match the monitor.
However, only if the translation from embedded profile to working space is also correct will the monitor and print also match the original file intentions.
Len,
Believe me, I really appreciate your detailed reply. However, I am still struggling! As you say, ‘the monitor profile effectively drops out of the equation when you print’. That’s fine, therefore why is it, that if I take a photo of a red Tee-shirt, for example, and it prints perfectly with the printer/paper profile, but looks orange on screen (in PS), that I can’t simply adjust the monitor representation of that red by some means and save the profile for subsequent use in PS? Looking at the photo in other apps does not show this effect – only PS or Corel Draw if CM is switched on.
Iain
What are your currently using as your monitor profile?
Are you using the latest drivers for your ATI graphics card? If so this could be the problem as the latest drivers do not support third party calibration software like Adobe Gamma.
Please see the link below.
<
http://www.ati.com/support/infobase/4501.html>
Sorry if I am way off beam
Iain,
that I can’t simply adjust the monitor representation of that red by some
means <<
That means is by creating an accurate monitor profile! Screwing with the monitor controls will just give you a non-linear response that cannot be relied on, as well as making all your non-colour managed applications display everything with a green tint.
imacken: not sure, but like I said, I fixed the exact same problem in my earlier post. Everything is ok now once I just went back to my original plug and play driver (just because it got rid of the color profile that the true drivers created – messing up PS).Maybe deleting the monitor profile would help – start with a clean slate.
Right click on the desktop, click properties, settings tab, advanced button, color management tab, select monitor profile and delete it. I’m not a PS wiz, and I don’t know the ramifications of doing this, but all is fine with my setup now. Write down the profile so you can add it back if something doesn’t work after – just in case….
Maybe deleting the monitor profile would help – start with a clean slate.
Always delete a bad monitor profile and start from scratch. Never try to correct a hosed profile
OK guys. I’ve made a profile using the ATI brightness/contrast adjustments on the Adobe Gamma screens. I’ve had to do it this way because as an earlier poster said the ATI drivers later than 4.1 won’t allow any 3rd party software to alter brightness etc. It all has to be done via the ATI display properties panel. As a side note, I didn’t want to go back to earlier drivers (4.1 or earlier) because they have their problems too. Most importantly, the well-documented bug that the desktop colour settings are not retained after exiting from 3D applications like games. This issue was fixed by ATI in 4.2 and later.
Anyway, the display seems ALMOST acceptable compared to prints, but am I expecting too much when I say they should be exactly the same?
Another question, why is it that whenever I create a profile using Adobe Gamma and save it as ‘My Monitor’ (say) the workspace in PS shows as ‘Adobe Monitor Profile’ not ‘My Monitor’? Similarly, whenever I load Adobe Gamma, it shows the current profile as ‘Adobe Monitor Profile’! Even if I load the ‘My Monitor’ icc file, it still shows as ‘Adobe Monitor File’.
Finally, when loading an image into PS, should I select ‘use embedded’, ‘convert to workspace’ or ‘don’t colour manage’? It seems that ‘convert’ or ‘don’t manage’ seem to give the best, most realistic colours on screen.
Thanks again,
Iain
Anyway, the display seems ALMOST acceptable compared to prints, but am I expecting too much when I say they should be exactly the same?
Yes, one reflects light, the other one emits it. Not to mention colour gamuts. You should be close, but you can’t be exactly the same.
