Dark Images outside Photoshop

B
Posted By
Bruceh
Nov 22, 2004
Views
361
Replies
13
Status
Closed
I am using Photoshop CS to convert raw photos from
my Canon 10d. When viewing the images outside of
Photoshop they are darker.

I converted the raw files to tifs and jpg’s (via Photo
Gallery) and they look darker when viewed with
Netscape and Irfanview.

I’m new to Photoshop so any assistance would be
appreciated.

bruceh

How to Master Sharpening in Photoshop

Give your photos a professional finish with sharpening in Photoshop. Learn to enhance details, create contrast, and prepare your images for print, web, and social media.

B
Bruceh
Nov 22, 2004
Bruceh wrote:

I am using Photoshop CS to convert raw photos from
my Canon 10d. When viewing the images outside of
Photoshop they are darker.

I converted the raw files to tifs and jpg’s (via Photo
Gallery) and they look darker when viewed with
Netscape and Irfanview.

In searching in another newsgroup there was a posting
similar to mine and the response was that one should
disable color management.

If this is what I should do, I’m wondering how one is
to handle the situation where I want to use color management so that I can output to a printer, yet use the same image source to create a webpage? If the webpage/jpg are
darker, then how does one go about lightening them?
H
Hecate
Nov 23, 2004
On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 18:15:15 GMT, Bruceh wrote:

Bruceh wrote:

I am using Photoshop CS to convert raw photos from
my Canon 10d. When viewing the images outside of
Photoshop they are darker.

I converted the raw files to tifs and jpg’s (via Photo
Gallery) and they look darker when viewed with
Netscape and Irfanview.

In searching in another newsgroup there was a posting
similar to mine and the response was that one should
disable color management.

If this is what I should do, I’m wondering how one is
to handle the situation where I want to use color management so that I can output to a printer, yet use the same image source to create a webpage? If the webpage/jpg are
darker, then how does one go about lightening them?
Use colour management for printing. Use different workspaces for different situations. Set yourself up a workspace for web images and one for print.



Hecate – The Real One

veni, vidi, reliqui
B
Bruceh
Nov 23, 2004
Hecate wrote:

On Mon, 22 Nov 2004 18:15:15 GMT, Bruceh wrote:

Bruceh wrote:

I am using Photoshop CS to convert raw photos from
my Canon 10d. When viewing the images outside of
Photoshop they are darker.

I converted the raw files to tifs and jpg’s (via Photo
Gallery) and they look darker when viewed with
Netscape and Irfanview.

In searching in another newsgroup there was a posting
similar to mine and the response was that one should
disable color management.

If this is what I should do, I’m wondering how one is
to handle the situation where I want to use color management so that I can output to a printer, yet use the same image source to create a webpage? If the webpage/jpg are
darker, then how does one go about lightening them?
Use colour management for printing. Use different workspaces for different situations. Set yourself up a workspace for web images and one for print.

This is what I’ve surmised by experimentation…
*"Set Color Management Policies" to "Convert to Working RGB" * When processing raw file, set Working Space to "Adobe RGB" – Save high quality file to .tif, .psd, etc. making any changes as needed.
* When I want to generate jpg files for web.
– Read .tif file
– Convert to 8 bit
– Change Profile to sRGB
– Modify image as needed
– Save As JPG, uncheck ICC Profile

Is this a valid procedure?

-bruceh
N
nomail
Nov 23, 2004
Bruceh wrote:

This is what I’ve surmised by experimentation…
*"Set Color Management Policies" to "Convert to Working RGB" * When processing raw file, set Working Space to "Adobe RGB" – Save high quality file to .tif, .psd, etc. making any changes as needed.
* When I want to generate jpg files for web.
– Read .tif file
– Convert to 8 bit
– Change Profile to sRGB
– Modify image as needed
– Save As JPG, uncheck ICC Profile

Is this a valid procedure?

Yes, providing that with "Change Profile to sRGB" you mean "Convert to sRGB profile". Do not just change ("assign") to sRGB. Also, I would not uncheck ICC profile. First of all, some browsers in the Macintosh world do use profiles and secondly, Photoshop will not nagg you about missing profiles if you would open such an image.


Johan W. Elzenga johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.nl/
TA
Timo Autiokari
Nov 23, 2004
On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 04:40:07 GMT, Bruceh wrote:

Is this a valid procedure?

before that, how is your display calibrated, using AdobeGamma or some other tool? To what gamma space have you calibrated it? In case of a Windows system is the display profile (that the display calibrator has generated) set as the active profile in the DisplayProperties ….ColorManagement -tab?

Timo Autiokari
B
Bruceh
Nov 24, 2004
"Johan W. Elzenga" wrote:

Bruceh wrote:

This is what I’ve surmised by experimentation…
*"Set Color Management Policies" to "Convert to Working RGB" * When processing raw file, set Working Space to "Adobe RGB" – Save high quality file to .tif, .psd, etc. making any changes as needed.
* When I want to generate jpg files for web.
– Read .tif file
– Convert to 8 bit
– Change Profile to sRGB
– Modify image as needed
– Save As JPG, uncheck ICC Profile

Is this a valid procedure?

Yes, providing that with "Change Profile to sRGB" you mean "Convert to sRGB profile". Do not just change ("assign") to sRGB. Also, I would not uncheck ICC profile. First of all, some browsers in the Macintosh world do use profiles and secondly, Photoshop will not nagg you about missing profiles if you would open such an image.

Yes, "Change" meaning "Convert"… but what do you mean by "assign"?

Regarding unchecking "ICC profile", I’m guessing that Netscape, Mozilla, and Internet Explorer does not handle ICC profiles, especially older versions.
B
Bruceh
Nov 24, 2004
Timo Autiokari wrote:

On Tue, 23 Nov 2004 04:40:07 GMT, Bruceh wrote:

Is this a valid procedure?

before that, how is your display calibrated, using AdobeGamma or some other tool? To what gamma space have you calibrated it? In case of a Windows system is the display profile (that the display calibrator has generated) set as the active profile in the DisplayProperties …ColorManagement -tab?

I am using AdobeGamma using a gamma of 2.2.

The display profile (color management)is set to the manufacturer’s profile. I have a Dell P991 which has a Trinitron tube.
N
nomail
Nov 24, 2004
Bruceh wrote:

Yes, providing that with "Change Profile to sRGB" you mean "Convert to sRGB profile". Do not just change ("assign") to sRGB. Also, I would not uncheck ICC profile. First of all, some browsers in the Macintosh world do use profiles and secondly, Photoshop will not nagg you about missing profiles if you would open such an image.

Yes, "Change" meaning "Convert"… but what do you mean by "assign"?

In Photoshop you can also choose "Assign profile". That would also change the image from working space to sRGB, but you would get a color shoft because it doesn’t convert the image properly.

Regarding unchecking "ICC profile", I’m guessing that Netscape, Mozilla, and Internet Explorer does not handle ICC profiles, especially older versions.

On a Macintosh, Internet Explorer does support profiles. Safari does too. I’m not sure about Mozilla en Netscape.


Johan W. Elzenga johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.nl/
B
Bruceh
Nov 24, 2004
Thanks. I think I have a handle (at least for now) on this workflow.

-bruceh

"Johan W. Elzenga" wrote:

Bruceh wrote:

Yes, providing that with "Change Profile to sRGB" you mean "Convert to sRGB profile". Do not just change ("assign") to sRGB. Also, I would not uncheck ICC profile. First of all, some browsers in the Macintosh world do use profiles and secondly, Photoshop will not nagg you about missing profiles if you would open such an image.

Yes, "Change" meaning "Convert"… but what do you mean by "assign"?

In Photoshop you can also choose "Assign profile". That would also change the image from working space to sRGB, but you would get a color shoft because it doesn’t convert the image properly.

Regarding unchecking "ICC profile", I’m guessing that Netscape, Mozilla, and Internet Explorer does not handle ICC profiles, especially older versions.

On a Macintosh, Internet Explorer does support profiles. Safari does too. I’m not sure about Mozilla en Netscape.
TA
Timo Autiokari
Nov 24, 2004
Bruceh wrote:

I am using AdobeGamma using a gamma of 2.2.

The display profile (color management)is set to the manufacturer’s profile. I have a Dell P991 which has a Trinitron tube.

Is this manufacturer’s profile the profile that AdobeGamma is using? Open AdobeGamma, what does it say in the Description box at the top of the dialog? This profile (profile name) must be specified in the DisplayProperties Color-Management tab as the active profile, if it is not so then there will be such difference you wrote about.

It is also possible that a canned profile can get somehow corrupted when it is manipulated using AdobeGamma, in that case it is better to start with "clean table", so that AdobeGamma is not given any profile as the starting point and so that AdobeGamma does not itself take any profile as for the starting point (it has the tendency to do so). I do this so that I ZIP all the profiles away from the
windows\system\\color directory (different location for XP, 2000 etc) then start the AdobeGamma. (Finally I extract only those profiles back form the ZIP that I actually use,makes the profile dropdowns in the various color-management dialogs much more nice to work with).

Timo Autiokari
B
Bruceh
Nov 24, 2004
Timo Autiokari wrote:

Bruceh wrote:

I am using AdobeGamma using a gamma of 2.2.

The display profile (color management)is set to the manufacturer’s profile. I have a Dell P991 which has a Trinitron tube.

Is this manufacturer’s profile the profile that AdobeGamma is using? Open AdobeGamma, what does it say in the Description box at the top of the dialog? This profile (profile name) must be specified in the DisplayProperties Color-Management tab as the active profile, if it is not so then there will be such difference you wrote about.

Well, I pretty much resolved that the issue has to do with setting the "Working RGB" to Adobe RGB when I’m working with 16-bit raw/tiff files and to sRGB when I’m generating a Web Photo Gallery (see other parts of this thread).

Thanks for your assistance!
TA
Timo Autiokari
Nov 25, 2004
On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 21:27:35 GMT, Bruceh wrote:

Well, I pretty much resolved that the issue has to do with setting the "Working RGB" to Adobe RGB when I’m working with 16-bit raw/tiff files and to sRGB when I’m generating a Web Photo Gallery

The same profile that is being used in AdobbeGamma has to be specified in the DisplayProperties …. Color-Management -tab as the active profile. Else the color management does not work correctly.

Both of those working-spaces you mention have a gamma 2.2 transfer function so the change you make does not affect to image darkness, they do have different gamuts so the effects is to the appearance of colors, but only when the images do not have an embedded profile. By changing the RGB working-space you:

1) effectively Assign the profile to such an image that does not have an embedded profile.

2) you make no change to the image when the image has an embedded profile.

The RGB working-space is not meant to be changed every so often, it is in a way you home-base. And e.g. in case you have both of the file types you mention open simultaneously (both without embedded profile) the chance of the RGB working-space affects to both of them.

You are on the correct track however. Provided that the RGB codes of your 16-bit raw/tiff files are in the AdobeRGB color-space you need to:

1) Image/Mode/Assign the AdobeRGB profile to them.
2) Image/Mode/ConvertTo to your working RGB space.
3) Then post-process and save as final original (as TIFF or PSD).

When you want to show such an image on the Web you would:
1) Open an final original
2) Convert it to a suitable Web publishing space like the nativePC profile using the Image/Mode/ConvertTo dialog.
3) Save as JPEG.

Timo Autiokari
B
Bruceh
Nov 25, 2004
Timo Autiokari wrote:

On Wed, 24 Nov 2004 21:27:35 GMT, Bruceh wrote:

Well, I pretty much resolved that the issue has to do with setting the "Working RGB" to Adobe RGB when I’m working with 16-bit raw/tiff files and to sRGB when I’m generating a Web Photo Gallery

The same profile that is being used in AdobbeGamma has to be specified in the DisplayProperties …. Color-Management -tab as the active profile. Else the color management does not work correctly.

Yes it is, though I don’t remember if I set it or if AdobeGamma automatically set it.

When you want to show such an image on the Web you would:
1) Open an final original
2) Convert it to a suitable Web publishing space like the nativePC profile using the Image/Mode/ConvertTo dialog.
3) Save as JPEG.

This is the situation I was originally having problems with. I was not "converting" to a "suitable Web space". Now that I have found (and understand a bit better) the Image/Mode/ConvertTo feature, what I see in Photoshop is what I see on Netscape and Irfanview.

Thanks again.

How to Master Sharpening in Photoshop

Give your photos a professional finish with sharpening in Photoshop. Learn to enhance details, create contrast, and prepare your images for print, web, and social media.

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