Accuracy of Photoshop’s 16 bit mode

U
Posted By
ukrsimibow
Feb 10, 2005
Views
505
Replies
8
Status
Closed
I think I found some inaccuracies in the 16 bit modes of Adobe Photoshop CS (8.0.1) Β– and I am not talking about the internal use of Β‘only’ 2^15 values which is the subject of many threads.

To reproduce my findings, do the following:
===========================================

Press F8 to open the Information panel.
In the Info panel choose "pixel" as the unit for coordinates Expand the Info panel to see the palette options and tick "show 16 bit values"
Create a new document with the following settings:
Width: 32768 Pixels
Height: 500 Pixels
Color mode: Greyscale, 16 bit OR RGB-color, 16 bit
In the Tools palette, select default colors for foreground & background (yields full black, resp. full white)
In the Tools palette, select the gradient tool and use it (by drawing a horizontal line from pixel coordinate (X=0) to (X=32768) – or as close as you manage to) to create a gradient from left to right. In the Tools palette, select the color sampler tool and inspect the gradient (choose a suitable magnification to be able to move the tool via your mouse with a 1 pixel resolution).

Strange things to see:
1) If you chose greyscale mode, then for most pixels, the values for the color components R, G, B are not identical – but should be on a greyscale picture. (If you chose RGB-color mode, then the the values for the color components R, G, B are identical – as expected.)
2) On the right and left rim of the picture we have the expected
values of (0,0,0) resp. (32768,32768,32768), but the gradient is NOT smooth. Instead, some horizontally neighbouring pixels do have the same RGB-values, then going further yet one more pixel the RGB values ‘jump’ to another value Β– and we are not taking about a single skipped value, but in the order of six.

Hold the color picker tool over some random pixel in the image, remember the RGB value displayed and double-click on the pixel to make its color the new foreground color.
Move the color picker tool over the rectangle for the foreground color in the tools palette to verify that the new foreground color has the same RGB values as previously displayed.
Now create a new image in 16 bit greyscale mode or 16 bit color mode and use the fill-tool to fill it with the current foreground color.

Strange things to see:
The color in the newly created image is different from the current foreground color.

Please help and tell me what I am doing wrong, if Photoshop really behaves like this or if there is some workaround.
Cheers.

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R
RSD99
Feb 10, 2005
Digital Light and Color’s Picture Window Pro is billed as a "true" 16-bit image editor. IIRC They have a free trial download. Does it do the same (or similar) thing?

www.dl-c.com/Temp/

"martin" wrote in message
I think I found some inaccuracies in the 16 bit modes of Adobe Photoshop CS (8.0.1) – and I am not talking about the internal use of ‘only’ 2^15 values which is the subject of many threads.
To reproduce my findings, do the following:
===========================================

Press F8 to open the Information panel.
In the Info panel choose "pixel" as the unit for coordinates Expand the Info panel to see the palette options and tick "show 16 bit values"
Create a new document with the following settings:
Width: 32768 Pixels
Height: 500 Pixels
Color mode: Greyscale, 16 bit OR RGB-color, 16 bit
In the Tools palette, select default colors for foreground & background (yields full black, resp. full white)
In the Tools palette, select the gradient tool and use it (by drawing a horizontal line from pixel coordinate (X=0) to (X=32768) – or as close as you manage to) to create a gradient from left to right. In the Tools palette, select the color sampler tool and inspect the gradient (choose a suitable magnification to be able to move the tool via your mouse with a 1 pixel resolution).

Strange things to see:
1) If you chose greyscale mode, then for most pixels, the values for the color components R, G, B are not identical – but should be on a greyscale picture. (If you chose RGB-color mode, then the the values for the color components R, G, B are identical – as expected.)
2) On the right and left rim of the picture we have the expected
values of (0,0,0) resp. (32768,32768,32768), but the gradient is NOT smooth. Instead, some horizontally neighbouring pixels do have the same RGB-values, then going further yet one more pixel the RGB values ‘jump’ to another value – and we are not taking about a single skipped value, but in the order of six.

Hold the color picker tool over some random pixel in the image, remember the RGB value displayed and double-click on the pixel to make its color the new foreground color.
Move the color picker tool over the rectangle for the foreground color in the tools palette to verify that the new foreground color has the same RGB values as previously displayed.
Now create a new image in 16 bit greyscale mode or 16 bit color mode and use the fill-tool to fill it with the current foreground color.
Strange things to see:
The color in the newly created image is different from the current foreground color.

Please help and tell me what I am doing wrong, if Photoshop really behaves like this or if there is some workaround.
Cheers.
KB
Ken Burns
Feb 10, 2005
Isn’t 32,768 14 bit?

KB

"martin" wrote in message
I think I found some inaccuracies in the 16 bit modes of Adobe Photoshop CS (8.0.1) – and I am not talking about the internal use of ‘only’ 2^15 values which is the subject of many threads.
To reproduce my findings, do the following:
===========================================

Press F8 to open the Information panel.
In the Info panel choose "pixel" as the unit for coordinates Expand the Info panel to see the palette options and tick "show 16 bit values"
Create a new document with the following settings:
Width: 32768 Pixels
Height: 500 Pixels
Color mode: Greyscale, 16 bit OR RGB-color, 16 bit
In the Tools palette, select default colors for foreground & background (yields full black, resp. full white)
In the Tools palette, select the gradient tool and use it (by drawing a horizontal line from pixel coordinate (X=0) to (X=32768) – or as close as you manage to) to create a gradient from left to right. In the Tools palette, select the color sampler tool and inspect the gradient (choose a suitable magnification to be able to move the tool via your mouse with a 1 pixel resolution).

Strange things to see:
1) If you chose greyscale mode, then for most pixels, the values for the color components R, G, B are not identical – but should be on a greyscale picture. (If you chose RGB-color mode, then the the values for the color components R, G, B are identical – as expected.)
2) On the right and left rim of the picture we have the expected
values of (0,0,0) resp. (32768,32768,32768), but the gradient is NOT smooth. Instead, some horizontally neighbouring pixels do have the same RGB-values, then going further yet one more pixel the RGB values ‘jump’ to another value – and we are not taking about a single skipped value, but in the order of six.

Hold the color picker tool over some random pixel in the image, remember the RGB value displayed and double-click on the pixel to make its color the new foreground color.
Move the color picker tool over the rectangle for the foreground color in the tools palette to verify that the new foreground color has the same RGB values as previously displayed.
Now create a new image in 16 bit greyscale mode or 16 bit color mode and use the fill-tool to fill it with the current foreground color.
Strange things to see:
The color in the newly created image is different from the current foreground color.

Please help and tell me what I am doing wrong, if Photoshop really behaves like this or if there is some workaround.
Cheers.
MR
Mike Russell
Feb 10, 2005
Ken Burns wrote:
Isn’t 32,768 14 bit?

15 bit plus one value, (0 to 0x8001) so it is technically in the 16 bit range.


Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net
KB
Ken Burns
Feb 10, 2005
Thanks, I miscounted the number of times I hit the button on my calculator. I have trouble with numbers larger than about 11 or 12. LOL

KB

"Mike Russell" wrote in message
Ken Burns wrote:
Isn’t 32,768 14 bit?

15 bit plus one value, (0 to 0x8001) so it is technically in the 16 bit range.


Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

MR
Mike Russell
Feb 10, 2005
Ken,
You’re not the only one, and I do this for a living! – the max value is 0x8000, not 0x8001.

Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

Ken Burns wrote:
Thanks, I miscounted the number of times I hit the button on my calculator. I have trouble with numbers larger than about 11 or 12. LOL

KB

"Mike Russell" wrote in message
Ken Burns wrote:
Isn’t 32,768 14 bit?

15 bit plus one value, (0 to 0x8001) so it is technically in the 16 bit range.


Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net
H
Hecate
Feb 10, 2005
On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 21:39:37 GMT, "Ken Burns" wrote:

Thanks, I miscounted the number of times I hit the button on my calculator. I have trouble with numbers larger than about 11 or 12. LOL
I’m OK up to 20 as long as I take my stockings off πŸ™‚



Hecate – The Real One

veni, vidi, reliqui
U
ukrsimibow
Feb 17, 2005
"RSD99" …
Digital Light and Color’s Picture Window Pro is billed as a "true" 16-bit image editor. IIRC They have a free trial download. Does it do the same (or similar) thing?

www.dl-c.com/Temp/

Many applications claim to be "true 16-bit", I have found none yet which -in my opinion- is:
* If you apply a gradient fill in a 16-bit greyscale pic in Picture Window Pro, the pic is converted to 8-bit greyscale. The color picker tool only works in the 0,0%..100.0%-range, making it impossible to precisely determine colors.
* In Corels PhotoPaint the color picker and color selector tools only work in the 0..255-range, making it impossible to precisely determine or set colors.
* ACDs Canvas 9: the color picker tool only works in the
0..255-range, making it impossible to precisely determine colors.
* Adobe Photoshop CS: see start of thread
* Paint Shop Pro: no support for 16 bit
U
ukrsimibow
Feb 22, 2005
Hold the color picker tool over some random pixel in the image, remember the RGB value (16 bit) displayed and double-click on the pixel to make its color the new foreground color.
Move the color picker tool over the rectangle for the foreground color in the tools palette to verify that the new foreground color has the same RGB values (16 bit) as previously displayed.
Now create a new image in 16 bit greyscale mode or 16 bit color mode and use the fill-tool to fill it with the current foreground color.
Strange things to see:
The color in the newly created image is different from the current foreground color.
Adobe Photoshop Customer Support confirmed the above limitation in 16 bit mode.
The behaviour was reproduced at their site and they told me that there is no workaround.

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