WCS interfering with ICC profile

On Fri, 1 May 2009 16:12:59 -0400, hanknj1 wrote:

I have ICC profiles for all of my monitors created with a Monaco EZ color sensor and software. But my HP Pavilion 9000’s screen is definitely off. This laptop is using the Vista operating system and, from what I can see, the ICC profile is being "interpreted" by Vista’s WCS settings.

….

I’m a photographer. I’d like to have my ICC profile have this laptop’s screen show what’s on all the other screens I use to process my photographs. This is the only computer running Vista and the only monitor that’s way off. Can someone help me get this laptop screen to match the other callibrated monitors? Thank you.

WCS only affects the display when you provide a WCS profile for your monitor. WCS will not impact Photoshop’s use of your Monaco display profile, since monitor color conversions are done internal to Photoshop, without resorting to WCS.

The problem you are seeing is *probably* the video LUT being reset or otherwise altered by Vista after startup. Watch your display during startup, and see if it gets darker or lighter during startup, then pops back again to its original brightness, indicating LUT troubles. One common way this happens is when the display is dimmed during certain alert messages – UAM being a common example.

I would recommend looking in your startup folder for the LUT loader, and running it manually to see if your display changes. This should affect the appearance of all applications, not just color managed apps like Photoshop, and bring your display into a much better match with your other systems. There may have been updates to Vista to address this problem.

If this is not the case, and only Photoshop displays incorrect colors – check back here for some more head scratching, LOL. BTW, I took the liberty of cross posting this response to the two groups, rather than post the same thing twice to both groups.
—
Mike Russell – http://www.curvemeister.com

On Fri, 1 May 2009 16:12:59 -0400, hanknj1 wrote:

I have ICC profiles for all of my monitors created with a Monaco EZ color sensor and software. But my HP Pavilion 9000’s screen is definitely off. This laptop is using the Vista operating system and, from what I can see, the ICC profile is being "interpreted" by Vista’s WCS settings.

….

I’m a photographer. I’d like to have my ICC profile have this laptop’s screen show what’s on all the other screens I use to process my photographs. This is the only computer running Vista and the only monitor that’s way off. Can someone help me get this laptop screen to match the other callibrated monitors? Thank you.

WCS only affects the display when you provide a WCS profile for your monitor. WCS will not impact Photoshop’s use of your Monaco display profile, since monitor color conversions are done internal to Photoshop, without resorting to WCS.

The problem you are seeing is *probably* the video LUT being reset or otherwise altered by Vista after startup. Watch your display during startup, and see if it gets darker or lighter during startup, then pops back again to its original brightness, indicating LUT troubles. One common way this happens is when the display is dimmed during certain alert messages – UAM being a common example.

I would recommend looking in your startup folder for the LUT loader, and running it manually to see if your display changes. This should affect the appearance of all applications, not just color managed apps like Photoshop, and bring your display into a much better match with your other systems. There may have been updates to Vista to address this problem.

If this is not the case, and only Photoshop displays incorrect colors – check back here for some more head scratching, LOL. BTW, I took the liberty of cross posting this response to the two groups, rather than post the same thing twice to both groups.
—
Mike Russell – http://www.curvemeister.com

Mike,

I see the Monaco profile altering the monitor’s output on all my pc’s at bootup. It does not announce itself and seem to alter the colors during the Apple bootup, though. I better check to make sure it’s running at all on that computer. But monitor color conversions appear to be altering the color outside of Photoshop on my XP machine and on this Vista laptop. Colors and tones outside of Photoshop are most decidedly way off. A known neutral grey appears pink and my black backgrounds on my website have a heavy warm tone.

There is no LUT loader in my startup programs. Maybe I need to look at the startup via msconfig. Hmmmm. Can’t seem to find a way to run that on this Vista machine. Why am I not surprised?

I’m not the only one going through this, as evidenced by this Luminous Landscape forum exchange:

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2518 5&st=0

Sadly, there was no resolution to the problem disclosed in the thread.

I have been watching my pennies but a Macbook Pro is beginning to look very good right now.

Thanks for your help.

Mike,

I see the Monaco profile altering the monitor’s output on all my pc’s at bootup. It does not announce itself and seem to alter the colors during the Apple bootup, though. I better check to make sure it’s running at all on that computer. But monitor color conversions appear to be altering the color outside of Photoshop on my XP machine and on this Vista laptop. Colors and tones outside of Photoshop are most decidedly way off. A known neutral grey appears pink and my black backgrounds on my website have a heavy warm tone.

There is no LUT loader in my startup programs. Maybe I need to look at the startup via msconfig. Hmmmm. Can’t seem to find a way to run that on this Vista machine. Why am I not surprised?

I’m not the only one going through this, as evidenced by this Luminous Landscape forum exchange:

http://luminous-landscape.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=2518 5&st=0

Sadly, there was no resolution to the problem disclosed in the thread.

I have been watching my pennies but a Macbook Pro is beginning to look very good right now.

Thanks for your help.

On Sun, 3 May 2009 06:54:34 -0400, hanknj1 wrote:

Sadly, there was no resolution to the problem disclosed in the thread.

Here’s something fairly recent from Microsoft:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/951537/en-us

I have been watching my pennies but a Macbook Pro is beginning to look very good right now.

Nothing wrong with the Macintosh, though life there is not perfect either.

—
Mike Russell – http://www.curvemeister.com

On Sun, 3 May 2009 06:54:34 -0400, hanknj1 wrote:

Sadly, there was no resolution to the problem disclosed in the thread.

Here’s something fairly recent from Microsoft:
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/951537/en-us

I have been watching my pennies but a Macbook Pro is beginning to look very good right now.

Nothing wrong with the Macintosh, though life there is not perfect either.

—
Mike Russell – http://www.curvemeister.com

Before I run out and spend $3K for a new laptop maybe I need to see how to get the profile running right on the Vista computer.

I read on the Luminous Landscape forum that, apparently the Xrite/Monaco profiles are interfered with but not the Spyder 3 profiles.

Come to think of it, I see my monitor’s output altered as soon as the Monaco gamma loader is installed on my XP machine too but not on my Mac Pro. Now Im wondering if that’s running right.

I wonder if Windows 7 will have the same WCS system.

For that matter, since I don’t see any screen alteration on the Mac during bootup….is even that machine working correctly?

Before I run out and spend $3K for a new laptop maybe I need to see how to get the profile running right on the Vista computer.

I read on the Luminous Landscape forum that, apparently the Xrite/Monaco profiles are interfered with but not the Spyder 3 profiles.

Come to think of it, I see my monitor’s output altered as soon as the Monaco gamma loader is installed on my XP machine too but not on my Mac Pro. Now Im wondering if that’s running right.

I wonder if Windows 7 will have the same WCS system.

For that matter, since I don’t see any screen alteration on the Mac during bootup….is even that machine working correctly?

On Mon, 4 May 2009 11:36:07 -0400, hanknj1 wrote:

For that matter, since I don’t see any screen alteration on the Mac during bootup….is even that machine working correctly?

Remember, this is a LUT issue, not a profile one as such. Though it is confusing, since the LUT data is embedded in the profile.

One way to test this is to generate a distinctive LUT, so that there is an obvious color or brightness shift when the LUT is loaded. I’m not familiar with the Monaco software. The i1, it would be possible to specify a very high or low target gamma value, which would make the display much darker or lighter.
—
Mike Russell – http://www.curvemeister.com

On Mon, 4 May 2009 11:36:07 -0400, hanknj1 wrote:

For that matter, since I don’t see any screen alteration on the Mac during bootup….is even that machine working correctly?

Remember, this is a LUT issue, not a profile one as such. Though it is confusing, since the LUT data is embedded in the profile.

One way to test this is to generate a distinctive LUT, so that there is an obvious color or brightness shift when the LUT is loaded. I’m not familiar with the Monaco software. The i1, it would be possible to specify a very high or low target gamma value, which would make the display much darker or lighter.
—
Mike Russell – http://www.curvemeister.com

"Mike Russell" wrote in message

On Mon, 4 May 2009 11:36:07 -0400, hanknj1 wrote:

For that matter, since I don’t see any screen alteration on the Mac during
bootup….is even that machine working correctly?

Remember, this is a LUT issue, not a profile one as such. Though it is confusing, since the LUT data is embedded in the profile.
One way to test this is to generate a distinctive LUT, so that there is an obvious color or brightness shift when the LUT is loaded. I’m not familiar
with the Monaco software. The i1, it would be possible to specify a very high or low target gamma value, which would make the display much darker or
lighter.
—
Mike Russell – http://www.curvemeister.com

Hi.

There has been another similar thread ongoing in
rec.photo.digital.slr-systems.

The OP seems to have found the reason, and it is a fault with Vista. It goes without saying that Microsoft blaim "incorrect" 3rd party profiles.

Have a look at
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/939395/en-us

They do not explain where the 3rd party profiles should be installed, so that the programs can use them.

Roy G

"Mike Russell" wrote in message

On Mon, 4 May 2009 11:36:07 -0400, hanknj1 wrote:

For that matter, since I don’t see any screen alteration on the Mac during
bootup….is even that machine working correctly?

Remember, this is a LUT issue, not a profile one as such. Though it is confusing, since the LUT data is embedded in the profile.
One way to test this is to generate a distinctive LUT, so that there is an obvious color or brightness shift when the LUT is loaded. I’m not familiar
with the Monaco software. The i1, it would be possible to specify a very high or low target gamma value, which would make the display much darker or
lighter.
—
Mike Russell – http://www.curvemeister.com

Hi.

There has been another similar thread ongoing in
rec.photo.digital.slr-systems.

The OP seems to have found the reason, and it is a fault with Vista. It goes without saying that Microsoft blaim "incorrect" 3rd party profiles.

Have a look at
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/939395/en-us

They do not explain where the 3rd party profiles should be installed, so that the programs can use them.

Roy G