Photoshop CS2? — CS 1.1 maybe…

J
Posted By
Jan
Mar 30, 2005
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808
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17
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Closed
My Opinions:

I admit I am a die hard Photoshop fan. I used the competition and still I come back to Photoshop. PS7 was good – CS1 is a little bit better.

But- regrettably – we must keep in mind Adobe is a for-profit company. They depend on the "I need the latest and the greatest" mentality to keep the funds flowing. If you have stock in Adobe, sell it. CS2 doesn’t sound like it’s worth $600 nor even $150. If someone advised Adobe on what to put in 9, Adobe should try to get their money back.

It sounds like they will be pushing a minor upgrade (some would call it a ‘fix’) as a ‘new version’. From what I read about the new features, they just don’t cut it – not when there are so many opportunities for real upgrade features.

If Adobe wants to improve their product, they need to work on the interface and the education/learning curve. They also need to take a more careful look at what third party add-ons people are getting.

For example, if you are familiar with Silverfast, including so much of what it has would seriously enhance PS. And Photomatrix functions a far cry better than shadows/highlights. Even Paint Shop Pro has some features which work easier and smoother than PS’s versions – such as Pinch/Punch. For a $600 product, Adobe should be embarrassed about its ‘Filters’ offerings…

And what about larger files – a byproduct of today’s hot issues (megapixels, hundred-gig hd’s, panoramics, bit-depth, etc)? RAISE THAT SCRATCH DISK SIZE LIMIT !!!

I could go on and on .. but you get the idea.

One final point. Today’s consumers are much more keenly aware of the marginal utility of upgrades – much more so than they were five or ten years ago when great new features real were great. It would be nice if the vendors would not lose sight of that.

Jan

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TA
Timo Autiokari
Mar 30, 2005
Jan wrote:

I admit I am a die hard Photoshop fan. I used the competition and still I come back to Photoshop. PS7 was good – CS1 is a little bit better.

I also think that Photoshop is very good software, however:

From v5 to v5.5 was a pure bug fix as the CMS in v5 was totally and absolutely faulty, among other major faults.
From v 5.5 to v6 we got very minimal improvements.
From v 6 to v7 we again got very minimal improvements.
From v7 to v8 …there are some actual but still administered very carefully, in very very small drops.

But- regrettably – we must keep in mind Adobe is a for-profit company.

All companies are after profit. Some however do it honestly, some just cheat outright.

They depend on the "I need the latest and the greatest" mentality to keep the funds flowing.

That is exactly so.

Unlike the other tools we buy & use, software does not wear out nor does it break on its own. So the software vendors have invented other mechanisms in order to be able to sell the same stuff many times to the same customers. Like embedding bugs and then charging from bug fixes.

They also play in co-operation, I only upgraded to Win98 since some Photoshop version (was it v6) did not install on Win95. Now then CS does not install on Win98 but this time I do _not_ upgrade it, so I will be using Photoshop v7. (Ahhh, that Photoshop version btw *did* run nicely on Win95, it was just that the installer was, on purpose, written so that it refused to install on Win95).

Microsoft co-operate in educating us to upgrade, they do this by embedding weaknesses to the operating system and especially into Internet Explorer so that viruses and other malware can easily spread all over. As one has been upgrading the IE once in every week over a couple of years upgrading really turns into a second instinct. One is thinking that one simply has to upgrade so that everyting would be running nicely without problems. That is also the reason why IE is free of charge, we easily learn to upgrade since there is no financial issues to consider in it.

Ok, now that you have been subjugated with/by the Activation …I can envision a couple of the next steps:

A day will come when the automatic update is again running and it will happen that all that you get as it finishes is a message box: The licence of this old version that you have been using has been withdrawn, the sofware has now been removed from you hard.disk and can not be installed again, please follow this link to the Adobe online shop for the purchase of the current version.

And some day after that you will need to enter your credit card number number and its password to the Activation/Update dialog so that they can charge you monthly or daily.

Timo Autiokari
P
PH
Mar 30, 2005
Timo Autiokari wrote:
Jan wrote:

I admit I am a die hard Photoshop fan. I used the competition and still I come back to Photoshop. PS7 was good – CS1 is a little bit better.

I also think that Photoshop is very good software, however:
From v5 to v5.5 was a pure bug fix as the CMS in v5 was totally and absolutely faulty, among other major faults.
From v 5.5 to v6 we got very minimal improvements.

Mwah I would think the pen tool was a major step forward. Maybe not so hard to implement from Illustrator, like all the improvements. But everything together (crop tool, new menu options, etcetera etcetera), it builds up.

I do agree that the frequency of upgrades is getting out of hand. I am sure that could be handled differently. Everyone is looking forward to a new release, and when it comes the mobey comes in. Plus those with little money (like I at the moment) loose track, which is a louzy thing in todays job market. But like has been said, Adobe is a commrcial company, this is part of the marketing strategy.

Peter
J
Jan
Mar 30, 2005
PH wrote:
Timo Autiokari wrote:

Jan wrote:

I admit I am a die hard Photoshop fan. I used the competition and still I come back to Photoshop. PS7 was good – CS1 is a little bit better.

I also think that Photoshop is very good software, however:
From v5 to v5.5 was a pure bug fix as the CMS in v5 was totally and absolutely faulty, among other major faults.
From v 5.5 to v6 we got very minimal improvements.

Mwah I would think the pen tool was a major step forward. Maybe not so hard to implement from Illustrator, like all the improvements. But everything together (crop tool, new menu options, etcetera etcetera), it builds up.

I do agree that the frequency of upgrades is getting out of hand. I am sure that could be handled differently. Everyone is looking forward to a new release, and when it comes the mobey comes in. Plus those with little money (like I at the moment) loose track, which is a louzy thing in todays job market. But like has been said, Adobe is a commrcial company, this is part of the marketing strategy.

Peter

Thanks for your comments. They are all good points and it’s a shame that no one at Adobe will ever read these – much less take them to heart.

Perhaps I could have been less verbose. My point was that if they want to sell me version XXX, they gotta make it worth my while, and from what I read, they’re not doing that.

When I had no Photoshop, I needed them. Now I have a Photoshop. I don’t NEED them.

I can use CS1 (or PS7,6,5…) and produce 90% of what I need. I don’t even know about the other 10% because they haven’t told me about it yet!

To make me dig into my wallet to buy new version XXX, THEY need to pull a rabbit out of a hat, not just dribble nonsense. Pitiful thing is, the ‘rabbits’ aren’t even secrets – they’re all around and Adobe only need look.

….again with the verbose ….

Jan
N
nomail
Mar 30, 2005
Jan wrote:

If Adobe wants to improve their product, they need to work on the interface and the education/learning curve. They also need to take a more careful look at what third party add-ons people are getting.
For example, if you are familiar with Silverfast, including so much of what it has would seriously enhance PS. And Photomatrix functions a far cry better than shadows/highlights.

You are comparing apples and oranges. Shadow/highlight works on ONE image, Photomatix combines two or more differently exposed images into a 32 bit HDR image and works from that. And guess what? That is exactly one of the new features in Photoshop CS2…

PS: learn how usenet works. You don’t start a new thread just to correct a spelling mistake in this one.


Johan W. Elzenga johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.nl/
J
Jan
Mar 30, 2005
Johan W. Elzenga wrote:

Jan wrote:

If Adobe wants to improve their product, they need to work on the interface and the education/learning curve. They also need to take a more careful look at what third party add-ons people are getting.
For example, if you are familiar with Silverfast, including so much of what it has would seriously enhance PS. And Photomatrix functions a far cry better than shadows/highlights.

You are comparing apples and oranges. Shadow/highlight works on ONE image, Photomatix combines two or more differently exposed images into a 32 bit HDR image and works from that. And guess what? That is exactly one of the new features in Photoshop CS2…

PS: learn how usenet works. You don’t start a new thread just to correct a spelling mistake in this one.

Thank you for your feedback. Glad to hear there will be more to CS2 than I have read about. Let’s hope it’s a winner.

Jan

PS Normally I don’t give a damn about spelling but in this case, my error made it look like I was referencing another company’s product. Sorry.

Besides, I can’t learn how Usenet works because I’ll be spending all my time on the CS2 learning curve!
R
Ron
Mar 30, 2005
I do a little beta work for Adobe, and I only buy every other version, there’s just not enough difference between versions to make me want to buy every one. And it’s even worse with Illustrator.

"Jan" wrote in message
PH wrote:
Timo Autiokari wrote:

Jan wrote:

I admit I am a die hard Photoshop fan. I used the competition and still I come back to Photoshop. PS7 was good – CS1 is a little bit better.

I also think that Photoshop is very good software, however:
From v5 to v5.5 was a pure bug fix as the CMS in v5 was totally and absolutely faulty, among other major faults.
From v 5.5 to v6 we got very minimal improvements.

Mwah I would think the pen tool was a major step forward. Maybe not so hard to implement from Illustrator, like all the improvements. But everything together (crop tool, new menu options, etcetera etcetera), it builds up.

I do agree that the frequency of upgrades is getting out of hand. I am sure that could be handled differently. Everyone is looking forward to a new release, and when it comes the mobey comes in. Plus those with little money (like I at the moment) loose track, which is a louzy thing in todays job market. But like has been said, Adobe is a commrcial company, this is part of the marketing strategy.

Peter

Thanks for your comments. They are all good points and it’s a shame that no one at Adobe will ever read these – much less take them to heart.
Perhaps I could have been less verbose. My point was that if they want to sell me version XXX, they gotta make it worth my while, and from what I read, they’re not doing that.

When I had no Photoshop, I needed them. Now I have a Photoshop. I don’t NEED them.

I can use CS1 (or PS7,6,5…) and produce 90% of what I need. I don’t even know about the other 10% because they haven’t told me about it yet!
To make me dig into my wallet to buy new version XXX, THEY need to pull a rabbit out of a hat, not just dribble nonsense. Pitiful thing is, the ‘rabbits’ aren’t even secrets – they’re all around and Adobe only need look.

…again with the verbose ….

Jan
H
Hecate
Mar 30, 2005
On Wed, 30 Mar 2005 14:04:32 GMT, Jan wrote:

One final point. Today’s consumers are much more keenly aware of the marginal utility of upgrades – much more so than they were five or ten years ago when great new features real were great. It would be nice if the vendors would not lose sight of that.
Only thing, of course, is that Photoshop isn’t aimed at consumers.



Hecate – The Real One

Fashion: Buying things you don’t need, with money
you don’t have, to impress people you don’t like…
H
Hecate
Mar 30, 2005
On 30 Mar 2005 16:50:03 EST, "Ron" wrote:

I do a little beta work for Adobe, and I only buy every other version, there’s just not enough difference between versions to make me want to buy every one. And it’s even worse with Illustrator.
As a general rule:

1. Never buy 1.x of anything.
2. Never upgrade to .01 of anything until some other poor fool has done the testing for you (thanks, Ron <g>).
3. Use Usenet and the Net to find out which are the most stable versions. Because of the way software is developed you will usually find that it’s generally either the even-numbered releases or the odd-numbered releases.

In Adobe’s case I have found it’s usually the odd-numbered ones, the even-numbered ones being bug fixes with a few sweeteners thrown in.



Hecate – The Real One

Fashion: Buying things you don’t need, with money
you don’t have, to impress people you don’t like…
S
Stephan
Mar 30, 2005
Timo Autiokari wrote:
Jan wrote:

I admit I am a die hard Photoshop fan. I used the competition and still I come back to Photoshop. PS7 was good – CS1 is a little bit better.

I also think that Photoshop is very good software, however:

That is why you have produced pages and pages showing how Adobe understands NOTHING about color…and, of course, trying to convince the world you know EVERYTHING on the subject.

snip<

They also play in co-operation, I only upgraded to Win98 since some Photoshop version (was it v6) did not install on Win95. Now then CS does not install on Win98 but this time I do _not_ upgrade it, so I will be using Photoshop v7. (Ahhh, that Photoshop version btw *did* run nicely on Win95, it was just that the installer was, on purpose, written so that it refused to install on Win95).

Too bad, W95 was so sweet right? and so simple, no USB support etc. etc.

Microsoft co-operate in educating us to upgrade, they do this by embedding weaknesses to the operating system and especially into Internet Explorer so that viruses and other malware can easily spread all over.

You really need a tinfoil hat now.

As one has been upgrading the IE once in every week over a
couple of years upgrading really turns into a second instinct. One is thinking that one simply has to upgrade so that everyting would be running nicely without problems. That is also the reason why IE is free of charge, we easily learn to upgrade since there is no financial issues to consider in it.

Did you know Firefox is free also? Who knows, it might even run on Win95.
Ok, now that you have been subjugated with/by the Activation …I can envision a couple of the next steps:

A day will come when the automatic update is again running and it will happen that all that you get as it finishes is a message box: The licence of this old version that you have been using has been withdrawn, the sofware has now been removed from you hard.disk and can not be installed again, please follow this link to the Adobe online shop for the purchase of the current version.

And some day after that you will need to enter your credit card number number and its password to the Activation/Update dialog so that they can charge you monthly or daily.

Do you have other visions? Like gods talking to you or such? Tell us more.

Stephan
R
Roberto
Mar 31, 2005
Personally, I think the problem with Photoshop and major updates is that the way Photoshop is done now it would take an almost complete rewrite of the program to update it the way most users would want.

This I think is why a lot of features Adobe has added over the last several releases have been half-assed. Things like history that can’t be saved with the document or converted to an action. Things like actions that can’t have if/then statements, password protection of the action source code, etc.

From comments Chris Cox has made in other forums these limitations are there because to remove them it would require a major rewrite of the program and I don’t think that is something Adobe has the balls for. That is why I think at least for sometime to come updates will be on the weak side and features will continue to be added that are either half-assed or incomplete. If you look at Photoshop CS you will see there are lot of features that are this way.

It is unforunate because this also means that over the next few years and next few releases Photoshop is going to fall farther and father behind programs like Paint Shop Pro which alread offers many features that Adobe Photoshop doesn’t and many features that are more complete.

In other words Photoshop is rapidly going where illustrator went a few years ago and that is down the drain.
H
Hecate
Mar 31, 2005
On Thu, 31 Mar 2005 20:04:41 GMT, "No You Spam Me Sucker" wrote:

It is unforunate because this also means that over the next few years and next few releases Photoshop is going to fall farther and father behind programs like Paint Shop Pro which alread offers many features that Adobe Photoshop doesn’t and many features that are more complete.
You’ve obviously never tried to do colour separations using PSP….



Hecate – The Real One

Fashion: Buying things you don’t need, with money
you don’t have, to impress people you don’t like…
C
Clyde
Mar 31, 2005
Jan wrote:
PH wrote:

Timo Autiokari wrote:

Jan wrote:

I admit I am a die hard Photoshop fan. I used the competition and still
I come back to Photoshop. PS7 was good – CS1 is a little bit better.

I also think that Photoshop is very good software, however:
From v5 to v5.5 was a pure bug fix as the CMS in v5 was totally and absolutely faulty, among other major faults.
From v 5.5 to v6 we got very minimal improvements.

Mwah I would think the pen tool was a major step forward. Maybe not so hard to implement from Illustrator, like all the improvements. But everything together (crop tool, new menu options, etcetera etcetera), it builds up.

I do agree that the frequency of upgrades is getting out of hand. I am sure that could be handled differently. Everyone is looking forward to a new release, and when it comes the mobey comes in. Plus those with little money (like I at the moment) loose track, which is a louzy thing in todays job market. But like has been said, Adobe is a commrcial company, this is part of the marketing strategy.

Peter

Thanks for your comments. They are all good points and it’s a shame that no one at Adobe will ever read these – much less take them to heart.
Perhaps I could have been less verbose. My point was that if they want to sell me version XXX, they gotta make it worth my while, and from what I read, they’re not doing that.

When I had no Photoshop, I needed them. Now I have a Photoshop. I don’t NEED them.

I can use CS1 (or PS7,6,5…) and produce 90% of what I need. I don’t even know about the other 10% because they haven’t told me about it yet!
To make me dig into my wallet to buy new version XXX, THEY need to pull a rabbit out of a hat, not just dribble nonsense. Pitiful thing is, the ‘rabbits’ aren’t even secrets – they’re all around and Adobe only need look.

…again with the verbose ….

Jan

You may not recognize all the rabbits. For example, of all the new features in CS1, I didn’t pay much attention to the new File Browser. After using it, it is my favorite feature. It is the one thing in CS1 that really improved my productivity – once I learned it secrets.

So, there may be things in CS2 that will help you more than you think right now.

BTW, I am very interested to learn more about the NEW File Browser and what it can do. So, far that seems like the most likely place to help me. I’ll wait to get better and more detailed reviews.

Clyde
R
Roberto
Apr 1, 2005

1. I have never ever done color seperations of any kind.

2. Because this one feature works better in Photoshop than any other program that is reason enough to stick with software that is rapidly becoming filled with half done, half-assed features? Sounds like a pretty stupid reason to me.
P
PH
Apr 1, 2005
No You Spam Me Sucker wrote:
1. I have never ever done color seperations of any kind.
2. Because this one feature works better in Photoshop than any other program that is reason enough to stick with software that is rapidly becoming filled with half done, half-assed features? Sounds like a pretty stupid reason to me.

Not that stupid.
If you are engaged in graphic design for print that "one feature" is mandatory.

Peter
H
Hecate
Apr 1, 2005
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 06:48:39 GMT, "No You Spam Me Sucker" wrote:

1. I have never ever done color seperations of any kind.
2. Because this one feature works better in Photoshop than any other program that is reason enough to stick with software that is rapidly becoming filled with half done, half-assed features? Sounds like a pretty stupid reason to me.
That is very important. Makes PSP useless to me. And that is only *one* of the things PS can do that PSP can’t. PSP is fine if you’re not doing any professional printing and like to use all the gimmicks it throws at you, otherwise…



Hecate – The Real One

Fashion: Buying things you don’t need, with money
you don’t have, to impress people you don’t like…
B
Brian
Apr 2, 2005
Hecate wrote:
On Fri, 01 Apr 2005 06:48:39 GMT, "No You Spam Me Sucker" wrote:

1. I have never ever done color seperations of any kind.
2. Because this one feature works better in Photoshop than any other program that is reason enough to stick with software that is rapidly becoming filled with half done, half-assed features? Sounds like a pretty stupid reason to me.

That is very important. Makes PSP useless to me. And that is only *one* of the things PS can do that PSP can’t. PSP is fine if you’re not doing any professional printing and like to use all the gimmicks it throws at you, otherwise…



Hecate – The Real One

Fashion: Buying things you don’t need, with money
you don’t have, to impress people you don’t like…

Is there some relationship between PS users and Nikon owners? Oh no, there can’t be, you have a Canon, right? Are you sure you are not a closet Nikon girl, Hecate?

I am just teasing again, NEVER take me seriously ok!

Brian 🙂
H
Hecate
Apr 3, 2005
On Sun, 03 Apr 2005 00:52:05 +1000, Brian
wrote:

That is very important. Makes PSP useless to me. And that is only *one* of the things PS can do that PSP can’t. PSP is fine if you’re not doing any professional printing and like to use all the gimmicks it throws at you, otherwise…

Is there some relationship between PS users and Nikon owners? Oh no, there can’t be, you have a Canon, right? Are you sure you are not a closet Nikon girl, Hecate?

We have one Nikon – a Coolpix 5700. It’s quite likely to be the only Nikon we ever own 😉



Hecate – The Real One

Fashion: Buying things you don’t need, with money
you don’t have, to impress people you don’t like…

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