Adobe and Macromedia

S
Posted By
SpaceGirl
Apr 18, 2005
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789
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So, Adobe now owns MAcromedia… hmmmm cant decide if that is good or bad! :S



x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

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B
Brian
Apr 18, 2005
SpaceGirl wrote:
So, Adobe now owns MAcromedia… hmmmm cant decide if that is good or bad! :S
Probably good, as long as Adobe does not start changing the user interfaces to mimic its own less friendly interfaces.

Brian.
EG
Eric Gill
Apr 18, 2005
SpaceGirl wrote in news:3chc9gF6e7j6kU2
@individual.net:

So, Adobe now owns MAcromedia… hmmmm cant decide if that is good or bad! :S

No competition = no incentive for excellence = bad.

Crap. I wouldn’t put it past them to kill Flash for SVG.
MC
MArtin Chiselwitt
Apr 18, 2005
Eric Gill wrote:
SpaceGirl wrote in news:3chc9gF6e7j6kU2
@individual.net:

So, Adobe now owns MAcromedia… hmmmm cant decide if that is good or bad! :S

No competition = no incentive for excellence = bad.

Crap. I wouldn’t put it past them to kill Flash for SVG.
I don’t think they will kill Flash, although that is my great fear about this merger… If they have any sense, they will develop it as is. if it ain’t broke , don’t fix it… The merging of Illustrator with Freehand could be interesting. But I fear that Fireworks and Dreamweaver will be scuppered so that Adobe can finally flog some life into GoLive and Image Ready, 2 pretty poor apps.
3.4 billion.. that’s a hell of a lot of money… Do Adobe really have that much??!
🙂
L
Larry
Apr 18, 2005
3.4 billion.. that’s a hell of a lot of money… Do Adobe really have
that much??!

At
L
Larry
Apr 18, 2005
Crap. I wouldn’t put it past them to kill Flash for SVG.

What’s so bad about that? apart from the obvious ‘reading up’ that goes with such a change.
SVG could be so good.
Let’s face it the interface for MX and everything after was all over the place!
EG
Eric Gill
Apr 18, 2005
"oli" wrote in
news:d40ldt$ifc$1$:

Crap. I wouldn’t put it past them to kill Flash for SVG.

What’s so bad about that? apart from the obvious ‘reading up’ that goes with such a change.

And the enormous problems with getting your website viewers to make the switch. And the fact that Flash is a very mature technology, whereas SVG is…well, I have no idea, since it’s achieved almost no market penetration.

<snip>
EG
Eric Gill
Apr 18, 2005
MArtin Chiselwitt wrote in
news:PgQ8e.9700$:

Eric Gill wrote:
SpaceGirl wrote in
news:3chc9gF6e7j6kU2 @individual.net:

So, Adobe now owns MAcromedia… hmmmm cant decide if that is good or bad! :S

No competition = no incentive for excellence = bad.

Crap. I wouldn’t put it past them to kill Flash for SVG.
I don’t think they will kill Flash, although that is my great fear about this merger… If they have any sense, they will develop it as is. if it ain’t broke , don’t fix it…

<shrug> They killed the Ares font technology, which gave us real cross- platform type a good decade ago, simply because they feared greater piracy.

Adobe overall often makes good choices. Adobe marketing seldom makes anything but poor (anti-customer) ones.

The merging of Illustrator
with Freehand could be interesting. But I fear that Fireworks and Dreamweaver will be scuppered so that Adobe can finally flog some life into GoLive and Image Ready, 2 pretty poor apps.

Probably. It would be cool to see Fireworks replace Image Ready, though, if someone has an attack of good sense.

3.4 billion.. that’s a hell of a lot of money… Do Adobe really have that much??!
🙂

Second largest software company. I’d hope so.
L
Larry
Apr 18, 2005
And the enormous problems with getting your website viewers to make the switch. And the fact that Flash is a very mature technology, whereas SVG is…well, I have no idea, since it’s achieved almost no market penetration.

If the change is done right.. which i freely admit it may not be.. the change would not be seen..
A point of SVG originally was that no plugin was needed as it was XML based.. whether this is still the case i don’t know (i do know Adobe release a plugin.. bad Adobe!)
It’s such a good idea, but people who used flash didn’t want to change which is
why it didn’t achieve the market penetration it should have. Trouble is now you have no choice… Adobe run the show.

Let evolve, but not revolve. Classic.
S
SpaceGirl
Apr 18, 2005
MArtin Chiselwitt wrote:
Eric Gill wrote:

SpaceGirl wrote in news:3chc9gF6e7j6kU2
@individual.net:

So, Adobe now owns MAcromedia… hmmmm cant decide if that is good or bad! :S

No competition = no incentive for excellence = bad.

Crap. I wouldn’t put it past them to kill Flash for SVG.
I don’t think they will kill Flash, although that is my great fear about this merger… If they have any sense, they will develop it as is. if it ain’t broke , don’t fix it… The merging of Illustrator with Freehand could be interesting. But I fear that Fireworks and Dreamweaver will be scuppered so that Adobe can finally flog some life into GoLive and Image Ready, 2 pretty poor apps.
3.4 billion.. that’s a hell of a lot of money… Do Adobe really have that much??!
🙂

ImageReady has pretty must effectively been dropped by Adobe… just how little press it gets as part of CS2? It might as well not exist.

I think DW will survive as Adobe lacks any real integrated IDE of any sort, and DW is very widely used and supported. There’s a lot of scope for further integration of DW into the rest of the Adobe range.

The SVG vs. Flash war is far less frightening than the PDF vs Flash war – Flash is the ONLY well supported animation/document format, and IMO PDF frankly SUCKS. If they try intergrate these two, I really dont want to have to download a 30mb viewer just to play animations/interactions…



x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

# lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
# remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #
S
SpaceGirl
Apr 18, 2005
oli wrote:
And the enormous problems with getting your website viewers to make the switch. And the fact that Flash is a very mature technology, whereas SVG is…well, I have no idea, since it’s achieved almost no market penetration.

If the change is done right.. which i freely admit it may not be.. the change would not be seen..
A point of SVG originally was that no plugin was needed as it was XML based.. whether this is still the case i don’t know (i do know Adobe release a plugin.. bad Adobe!)
It’s such a good idea, but people who used flash didn’t want to change which is
why it didn’t achieve the market penetration it should have. Trouble is now you have no choice… Adobe run the show.
Let evolve, but not revolve. Classic.

The problem with SVG is that it is pretty limited and very inefficient. XML is great for a lot of data manipulation, but image formats? Not at all. Have you ever seen the inside of a PostScript file!?



x theSpaceGirl (miranda)

# lead designer @ http://www.dhnewmedia.com #
# remove NO SPAM to email, or use form on website #
MC
MArtin Chiselwitt
Apr 18, 2005
The problem with SVG is that it is pretty limited and very inefficient. XML is great for a lot of data manipulation, but image formats? Not at all. Have you ever seen the inside of a PostScript file!?

My sentiments exactly. Who wants to learn programming just to draw a square? Not I….
H
Hecate
Apr 18, 2005
On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 10:17:41 +0100, SpaceGirl
wrote:

So, Adobe now owns MAcromedia… hmmmm cant decide if that is good or bad! :S

Really bad. Now we’ll get Dreamweaver with a GoLive interface (or they’ll kill it altogether to reduce the competition) Fireworks will be dropped and they’ll promote the amazingly awful Image Ready and we’ll gain all the bad points of Illustrator without any of the good points of Freehand. And did I mention that god awful GoLive interface yet? 😉



Hecate – The Real One

Fashion: Buying things you don’t need, with money
you don’t have, to impress people you don’t like…
H
Hecate
Apr 19, 2005
On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:28:02 +0100, SpaceGirl
wrote:

ImageReady has pretty must effectively been dropped by Adobe… just how little press it gets as part of CS2? It might as well not exist.

Oh, please, yes!!!

I think DW will survive as Adobe lacks any real integrated IDE of any sort, and DW is very widely used and supported. There’s a lot of scope for further integration of DW into the rest of the Adobe range.

I think that if they can manage the code base correctly and merge DW and GL then they’d have best of both worlds. However, they’re more likely to pick the interface from GoLive, and the coding from DW if marketing get their hands on it.

The SVG vs. Flash war is far less frightening than the PDF vs Flash war – Flash is the ONLY well supported animation/document format, and IMO PDF frankly SUCKS. If they try intergrate these two, I really dont want to have to download a 30mb viewer just to play animations/interactions…

You’ll get what the suits in the accounting department want. OTOH, there’s a possibility that Adobe will choke on Macromedia in the same way that HP choked on Compaq.



Hecate – The Real One

Fashion: Buying things you don’t need, with money
you don’t have, to impress people you don’t like…
H
Hecate
Apr 19, 2005
On Mon, 18 Apr 2005 17:20:11 +0100, "oli" wrote:

And the enormous problems with getting your website viewers to make the switch. And the fact that Flash is a very mature technology, whereas SVG is…well, I have no idea, since it’s achieved almost no market penetration.

If the change is done right.. which i freely admit it may not be.. the change would not be seen..
A point of SVG originally was that no plugin was needed as it was XML based.. whether this is still the case i don’t know (i do know Adobe release a plugin.. bad Adobe!)
It’s such a good idea, but people who used flash didn’t want to change which is
why it didn’t achieve the market penetration it should have. Trouble is now you have no choice… Adobe run the show.
Let evolve, but not revolve. Classic.
SVG is in no way comparable with Flash. Try programming an SVG interface and running software with SVG and you’ll see what I mean.



Hecate – The Real One

Fashion: Buying things you don’t need, with money
you don’t have, to impress people you don’t like…
P
poza
Apr 19, 2005
Brian wrote:

SpaceGirl wrote:
So, Adobe now owns MAcromedia… hmmmm cant decide if that is good or bad! :S
Probably good, as long as Adobe does not start changing the user interfaces to mimic its own less friendly interfaces.

This is probably a matter of personal taste but I’ve never found Adobe’s interfaces less friendly than Macromedia’s. I think it’s simply what the user is used to.

All in all though, I think this is a "bad thing" since monopolies are never a good thing for the user.

If I had to predict what will happen, I’m guessing Adobe will incorporate the web-related technology into their own products or simply replace some of their products (the likeliest candidates being GoLive and ImageReady being replaced by Dreamweaver and Flash). It’s a toss up on whether Illustrator or Freehand will win but I’m guessing some of Freehand’s functionality/interace will be rolled into something still called Illustrator.

Orchid
L
Larry
Apr 19, 2005
SVG is in no way comparable with Flash. Try programming an SVG interface and running software with SVG and you’ll see what I mean.

I agree and have tried both.. LOTS. But it’s early days yet! All SVG really needs is a decent interface.. and i’m sure that’s what they are thinking.

Does anyone REALLY think they will keep flash going the same way?
L
Larry
Apr 19, 2005
The problem with SVG is that it is pretty limited and very inefficient.

It’s really too early to say that now.. (if they hadn’t purchased Macromedia I wouldn’t be saying this!)
If Adobe want to bring it to the forefront.. this is the perfect opportunity
L
Larry
Apr 19, 2005
The problem with SVG is that it is pretty limited and very inefficient. XML is great for a lot of data manipulation, but image formats? Not at all. Have you ever seen the inside of a PostScript file!?

http://www.square1.nl/TGC-SITE/vector/vector-gallery.htm

They both have + and – point.. so it’s a bit of a mixed bag really.
H
Hecate
Apr 19, 2005
On Tue, 19 Apr 2005 16:54:33 +0100, "oli" wrote:

SVG is in no way comparable with Flash. Try programming an SVG interface and running software with SVG and you’ll see what I mean.

I agree and have tried both.. LOTS. But it’s early days yet! All SVG really needs is a decent interface.. and i’m sure that’s what they are thinking.

Does anyone REALLY think they will keep flash going the same way?
Absolutely. Do you realise how many people use Flash – and not just for web work? It is fully programmable and can so much more than SVG. Adobe would have to be really stupid to kill something which will give them such a large revenue stream. What is more likely to happen is that SVG will be incorporated into Flash as a file type for output.



Hecate – The Real One

Fashion: Buying things you don’t need, with money
you don’t have, to impress people you don’t like…
L
Larry
Apr 20, 2005
Absolutely. Do you realise how many people use Flash – and not just for web work? It is fully programmable and can so much more than SVG. Adobe would have to be really stupid to kill something which will give them such a large revenue stream. What is more likely to happen is that SVG will be incorporated into Flash as a file type for output.

We shall see.

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