what makes a copy of Photoshop legal?

Hi All —
First of all, let me apologize for raising a topic that may have been discussed many times. My (limited) search of the group did not yield satisfying answers, though.

I’m looking into buying an older version of Photoshop on Ebay and possibly upgrading it to a newer release. After having discarded all "OEM" and "not eligible for technical support" offers, I came across another category, offered with "valid, never registered serial numbers". They are typically sold as "CD only, with serial number".

Whether using such a copy is legal or not, boils down to the question: what really makes me a legitimate owner of a properly licensed copy? Is it enough if the serial number correctly registers online with Adobe? Does it matter if the CD is genuine, and how to check it? And if I try to register and the number turns out to be invalid, should I worry that Adobe will go after me?

To be 100% honest, I already called Adobe about that, and their response was that a valid S/N registration is the only thing that matters. From what I heard, it seems that I could take a bootleg CD, install it, and then register that copy with a previously unused, valid serial number to make it 100% legal. Technically it makes sense (you pay for the license, not media), but compared to Microsoft’s policy, for instance (user required to keep media, manual, EULA, box), this seems really lax. Also, I’m wondering if the registration would accept bogus, generated numbers (which is probably a slippery question).

If
they maintain a database of numbers already issued with physical copies sold, then such an attempt would fail, and it would also mean that the "unregistered" number is legal — it must belong to a copy produced by Adobe, not cloned by some hacker. OTOH, if the verification just validates the number itself, then the explanation that I got from Adobe proves nothing.

On 19 Jul 2005 16:02:49 -0700, wrote:

Hi All —
First of all, let me apologize for raising a topic that may have been discussed many times. My (limited) search of the group did not yield satisfying answers, though.

I’m looking into buying an older version of Photoshop on Ebay and possibly upgrading it to a newer release. After having discarded all "OEM" and "not eligible for technical support" offers, I came across another category, offered with "valid, never registered serial numbers". They are typically sold as "CD only, with serial number".

And are likely to be pirate versions, which you’ll find out after you’ve paid for it and (if you’re lucky) get a CD that obviously wasn’t pressed by Adobe.

Whether using such a copy is legal or not, boils down to the question: what really makes me a legitimate owner of a properly licensed copy? Is it enough if the serial number correctly registers online with Adobe? Does it matter if the CD is genuine, and how to check it? And if I try to register and the number turns out to be invalid, should I worry that Adobe will go after me?

Buying a real version.
Yes.
Yes.
Yes.

To be 100% honest, I already called Adobe about that, and their response was that a valid S/N registration is the only thing that matters. From what I heard, it seems that I could take a bootleg CD, install it, and then register that copy with a previously unused, valid serial number to make it 100% legal. Technically it makes sense (you pay for the license, not media), but compared to Microsoft’s policy, for instance (user required to keep media, manual, EULA, box), this seems really lax. Also, I’m wondering if the registration would accept bogus, generated numbers (which is probably a slippery question).

No.. Sometimes it won’t even accept legal numbers that have been hijacked and are on their blacklist.

If
they maintain a database of numbers already issued with physical copies sold, then such an attempt would fail, and it would also mean that the "unregistered" number is legal — it must belong to a copy produced by Adobe, not cloned by some hacker. OTOH, if the verification just validates the number itself, then the explanation that I got from Adobe proves nothing.

The interesting bit comes when you try and activate it…

Hecate – The Real One

Fashion: Buying things you don’t need, with money
you don’t have, to impress people you don’t like…

It is possible they are legit but out-of-date copies, possible. Most of us wouldn’t want old versions so it makes sense they are discounted. Why would the sellers risk Adobe seeing them? It makes sense to go after counterfieters more than individual users. The warez versions have serial generators and activation number generators!! and they work. If it’s warez you would see the generators or you wouldn’t be able to install them.

On Wed, 20 Jul 2005 18:25:21 -0400, "KatWoman" wrote:

It is possible they are legit but out-of-date copies, possible. Most of

wouldn’t want old versions so it makes sense they are discounted. Why

the sellers risk Adobe seeing them? It makes sense to go after counterfieters more than individual users. The warez versions have serial generators and activation number generators!! and they work. If it’s warez you would see the generators or you wouldn’t be able to install them.

No, not necessarily. Particularly older versions, before activation, which I have seen with serial numbers provided.

—

Hecate – The Real One

Fashion: Buying things you don’t need, with money
you don’t have, to impress people you don’t like…

Anyone that wants a copy of anything can go to xxxxxxxxx.com and get it, the serial #’s, the manuals, etc.
It’s not really any big secret.

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:26:45 -0400, "Scruff" wrote:

Anyone that wants a copy of anything can go to xxxxxxxxx.com and get it, the serial #’s, the manuals, etc.
It’s not really any big secret.

The OP was obviously trying to be legal about it (good on him!), so the link won’t help his decision.

Before I bought my first copy of PS, I asked Adobe about these ‘discounted’ versions, and if I could tell if they were legal ahead of purchasing. They told me:
"install and try to activate; if it’s legal, no problem, if not, we’ll be in touch".
Scare tactics, obviously. Could have been more helpful to a potential customer trying to be all legal like…IMO.

On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 07:42:37 -0400, Roy Petersen <> wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:26:45 -0400, "Scruff" wrote:

Anyone that wants a copy of anything can go to xxxxxxxxx.com and get it, the serial #’s, the manuals, etc.
It’s not really any big secret.

The OP was obviously trying to be legal about it (good on him!), so the link won’t help his decision.

Before I bought my first copy of PS, I asked Adobe about these ‘discounted’ versions, and if I could tell if they were legal ahead of purchasing. They told me:
"install and try to activate; if it’s legal, no problem, if not, we’ll be in touch".
Scare tactics, obviously. Could have been more helpful to a potential customer trying to be all legal like…IMO.

Essentially, they are right though, which is why you shouldn’t buy old copies from someone who is not a reputable supplier (for instance, you’ll often see shrink-wrapped software available at auction from companies that have closed down).

—

Hecate – The Real One

Fashion: Buying things you don’t need, with money
you don’t have, to impress people you don’t like…

In article ,
says…

On Sun, 24 Jul 2005 07:42:37 -0400, Roy Petersen <> wrote:

On Thu, 21 Jul 2005 22:26:45 -0400, "Scruff" wrote:

Anyone that wants a copy of anything can go to xxxxxxxxx.com and get it, the serial #’s, the manuals, etc.
It’s not really any big secret.

The OP was obviously trying to be legal about it (good on him!), so the link won’t help his decision.

Before I bought my first copy of PS, I asked Adobe about these ‘discounted’ versions, and if I could tell if they were legal ahead of purchasing. They told me:
"install and try to activate; if it’s legal, no problem, if not, we’ll be in touch".
Scare tactics, obviously. Could have been more helpful to a potential customer trying to be all legal like…IMO.

Essentially, they are right though, which is why you shouldn’t buy old copies from someone who is not a reputable supplier (for instance, you’ll often see shrink-wrapped software available at auction from companies that have closed down).

AND, shrink-wrapping doesn’t guarantee that the software is new and un-used. Many retailers in the US (Fry’s Electronics out of CA is a good example, though they DO usually have a tag, indicating that the software/hardware was a
return) will apply shrink-wrap to returns/refurbished items. If one wanted to do that, the supplies are readily available at floral-supply houses, and similar.

Now they’ve bundled Photoshop into CS forcing everyone to buy Illustrator, Acrobat, InDesign and a number of other funky apps that most people didn’t want or didn’t need, meanwhile threatening / discouraging users from buying earlier versions.

Many programs come a hybrid Mac/Win apps – guess which don’t? MSOffice and CS. Theoretically if a design studio had both then you’ve gotta pay for both and Joe public, that means you.

Of course both Microsoft and Adobe are out there to make profits, not to provide good products at an affordable price and I’m sure if a cheap, fully compatible alternative became available prices would dwindle. So go ahead and buy that second-hand version of PS7 or CS1. It is NOT illegal to sell off unwanted audio CDs and it is not illegal to sell unneeded software.

Who would consider an OEM version of a product to be illegal? I work for a school who recently installed a computer room. 56 brand new computers and the office had 56 shrinkwrapped bundles of OEM software to prove it. What do you expect them to do with these 55 spares? Carefully destroy them and have no proof of purchase? Give them away? Sell them? No – that’s illegal, apparently.