Resizing in Raw or jpg?

On Thu, 27 Oct 2005 23:06:04 +0200, DD wrote:

Any difference whether I resize the RAF’s
in Photoshop’s Camera Raw User Interface,
or resizing it *after* converting it to JPG format?

I prefer to save the Raw formats in the default size
which is 2048 x 1542 (3.2 MP) 300 ppi
and a 6MP jpg ìs bigger than a A2. with little difference up to a A1 (which I did the past weekend), even if it is (Fuji’s way:-) shrinked to 1.5MB.

Or should I, if I know this will be a A1 or A0, shoot in Raw even if it is only for the sake of enlargement?

Dave

Whenever you open a JPG file, it gets uncompressed and loaded into memory. After you make changes to it and save it again as a JPG, it gets resampled. This results in at least some loss of data.

If the file starts out as a RAW file, I recommend that you make basic color and white balance adjustements using the RAW plug-in and then save a 16-bit working copy in PSD or TIFF format. Do all your editing on the PSD or TIFF version. That way you get the most out of the original image and you can do your editting in a way that preserves all of the pixels in the original image. When you want a JPG, open your working copy, make any adjustments you want to the size or whatever, and save it as a JPEG. If you decide you want to do additional editting, go back to your working copy.

If the file starts out as a JPEG, open it and save a working copy as a PSD (or TIFF). Use this as the starting point for all future edits If you want an updated JPEG, start from your working copy and save it as a JPEG. That way the JPEG is sampled only twice — once by the camera and once when you do the final save.

As an aside, I always keep an unaltered copy of the original RAW or JPEG file from the camera. That way, worse case, I can start over with that.

I’m not 100% sure what you mean by resizing. I take that to mean that you are doing some operation that changes the number of pixels in the image. Generally speaking, I try not to do anything to my main "working copy" that changes the number of pixels. If I needed to do so, I’d save another working copy

Cheers,

Leonard

In article
wrote:

Any difference whether I resize the RAF’s
in Photoshop’s Camera Raw User Interface,
or resizing it *after* converting it to JPG format?

When you save a JPEG, you degrade its quality. When you resize a degraded JPEG, you exaggerate the loss in quality.

If you are shooting in RAW, why are you converting to JPEG? If quality is important to you, do not convert to JPEG. Instead, use a non-degraded format like Photoshop or TIFF.

—
Art, photography, shareware, polyamory, literature, kink: all at http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 12:56:10 GMT, Leonard Lehew
wrote:

Whenever you open a JPG file, it gets uncompressed and loaded into memory. After you make changes to it and save it again as a JPG, it gets resampled. This results in at least some loss of data.

Of this I’m totally aware, and thus, when resizing, it will be from the first, (modified/colour corrected of course) saved copy. But like you said, there’s already some loss of data on that one.

If the file starts out as a RAW file, I recommend that you make basic color and white balance adjustements using the RAW plug-in and then save a 16-bit working copy in PSD or TIFF format.

Forgive me from smiling when you said this, so short after the long dabate on higher bit between Mike and Bill, started by Sarah who never came back to the same thread:-)
The discussion that was most probably followed by every one exept flipper mike & kie:-)

Do all your editing
on the PSD or TIFF version. That way you get the most out of the original image and you can do your editting in a way that preserves all of the pixels in the original image. When you want a JPG, open your working copy, make any adjustments you want to the size or whatever, and save it as a JPEG. If you decide you want to do additional editting, go back to your working copy.

If the file starts out as a JPEG, open it and save a working copy as a PSD (or TIFF). Use this as the starting point for all future edits If you want an updated JPEG, start from your working copy and save it as a JPEG. That way the JPEG is sampled only twice — once by the camera and once when you do the final save.

This is the way I go about it, but the reason for the question was the fact that, I do not (of course?) take all my pictures in Raw. In fact, only a few, *and* I have taken nearly ten thousend photos with this camera before starting to experiment with Raw -:o (10 photos less than 10 000 and I am working on Raw the past 3 months – sometimes:-)))

As an aside, I always keep an unaltered copy of the original RAW or JPEG file from the camera. That way, worse case, I can start over with that.

I also do the same with photos I see as valuable.

I’m not 100% sure what you mean by resizing. I take that to mean that you are doing some operation that changes the number of pixels in the image. Generally speaking, I try not to do anything to my main "working copy" that changes the number of pixels. If I needed to do so, I’d save another working copy

Sometimes I take photo’s with the possibility in mind
that there may be one or two interesting ones between them. JPG’s. And then, when looking at it on computer, there is it! The one that must be framed – the one that’s going to make me famous – and rich! …..
…..
…..
Sorry for this interuption, but I could think of no better way to explain, than to take this photos:-) When originally taking this photos, it slipped my mind that I changed the batteries in my camera, and it do go back to the default of 1M photos, if batteries get changed, from where it must be set again.

This is 1-megapixel photos being interpolated
and the printer found it hard to believe.

http://home.intekom.com/davesplace/a2frames/1ln9989s.jpg

http://home.intekom.com/davesplace/a2frames/2ln9987s.jpg

http://home.intekom.com/davesplace/a2frames/3ln9986s.jpg

Cheers,

Leonard

Cheers Leonard, and thanks for your friendly reply.

Dave

On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 18:29:45 GMT, tacit wrote:

In article
wrote:

Any difference whether I resize the RAF’s
in Photoshop’s Camera Raw User Interface,
or resizing it *after* converting it to JPG format?

When you save a JPEG, you degrade its quality. When you resize a degraded JPEG, you exaggerate the loss in quality.

If you are shooting in RAW, why are you converting to JPEG? If quality is important to you, do not convert to JPEG. Instead, use a non-degraded format like Photoshop or TIFF.

Everything important get saved in PSD, Tacit, but the PSD files get saved in a default of 2048 X 1542 (3.2MP) while a 6MB photo, which is the standard when shooting, is bigger than an A2, and not much smaller than a A1. This brings something else to mind; is the data loss different depending on how big(ger) the enlargement is?

Thanks for your reply.

Dave

Whenever you open a JPG file, it gets uncompressed and loaded into

memory. After you make changes to it and save it again as a JPG, it gets resampled. This results in at least some loss of data.

Of this I’m totally aware, and thus, when resizing, it will be from the first, (modified/colour corrected of course) saved copy. But like you said, there’s already some loss of data on that one.

If the file starts out as a RAW file, I recommend that you make basic color and white balance adjustements using the RAW plug-in and then save a 16-bit working copy in PSD or TIFF format.

Forgive me from smiling when you said this, so short after the long dab ate on higher bit between Mike and Bill, started by Sarah who never came back to the same thread:-)
The discussion that was most probably followed by every one except flipper mike & kie:-)

Do all your editing
on the PSD or TIFF version. That way you get the most out of the original image and you can do your editting in a way that preserves all of the pixels in the original image. When you want a JPG, open your working copy, make any adjustments you want to the size or whatever, and save it as a JPEG. If you decide you want to do additional editting, go back to your working copy.

If the file starts out as a JPEG, open it and save a working copy as a PSD (or TIFF). Use this as the starting point for all future edits If you want an updated JPEG, start from your working copy and save it as a JPEG. That way the JPEG is sampled only twice — once by the camera and once when you do the final save.

This is the way I go about it, but the reason for the question was the fact that, I do not (of course?) take all my pictures in Raw. In fact, only a few, *and* I have taken nearly ten thousand photos with this camera before starting to experiment with Raw -:o (10 photos less than 10 000 and I am working on Raw the past 3 months – sometimes:-)))

As an aside, I always keep an unaltered copy of the original RAW or JPEG file from the camera. That way, worse case, I can start over with that.

I also do the same with photos I see as valuable.

I’m not 100% sure what you mean by resizing. I take that to mean that you are doing some operation that changes the number of pixels in the image. Generally speaking, I try not to do anything to my main "working copy" that changes the number of pixels. If I needed to do so, I’d save another working copy

Sometimes I take photo’s with the possibility in mind
that there may be one or two interesting ones between them. JPG’s. And then, when looking at it on computer, there is it! The one that must be framed – the one that’s going to make me famous – and rich! …..
…..
…..
Sorry for this interruption, but I could think of no better way to explain, than to take this photos:-) When originally taking this photos, it slipped my mind that I changed the batteries in my camera, and it do go back to the default of 1M photos, if batteries get changed, from where it must be set again.

This is 1-megapixel photos being interpolated
and the printer found it hard to believe.

http://home.intekom.com/davesplace/a2frames/1ln9989s.jpg

http://home.intekom.com/davesplace/a2frames/2ln9987s.jpg

http://home.intekom.com/davesplace/a2frames/3ln9986s.jpg

Cheers,

Leonard

Cheers Leonard, and thanks for your friendly reply.

Dave

DD wrote:

On Fri, 28 Oct 2005 18:29:45 GMT, tacit wrote:

In article
wrote:

Any difference whether I resize the RAF’s
in Photoshop’s Camera Raw User Interface,
or resizing it *after* converting it to JPG format?

When you save a JPEG, you degrade its quality. When you resize a degraded JPEG, you exaggerate the loss in quality.

If you are shooting in RAW, why are you converting to JPEG? If quality is important to you, do not convert to JPEG. Instead, use a non-degraded format like Photoshop or TIFF.

Everything important get saved in PSD, Tacit, but the PSD files get saved in a default of 2048 X 1542 (3.2MP) while a 6MB photo, which is the standard when shooting, is bigger than an A2, and not much smaller than a A1. This brings something else to mind; is the data loss different depending on how big(ger) the enlargement is?
Thanks for your reply.

Dave

Hi Dave,

you seem to keep saying that 6MP is larger than an A2. Please quantify this statement. Bigger than an A2 at what resolution? I doubt that you would get a true photo quality A2 out of a 6MP camera.

Sorry to be picky, I am just a realist.

Brian.

On Sat, 29 Oct 2005 20:48:49 +1000, Brian
wrote:

Hi Dave,

you seem to keep saying that 6MP is larger than an A2. Please quantify this statement. Bigger than an A2 at what resolution? I doubt that you would get a true photo quality A2 out of a 6MP camera.

Sorry to be picky, I am just a realist.

Brian.

Thanks for pointing this out, Brian.
I only thought at:
6MP =
993.42 mm x 747.89 mm
or
39.111 inch x 29.444 inch
x 72 ppi
but should have realized that it is *only* @ 72ppi.
Somehow it slipped my mind until you said it,
*but*but*but*…

I doubt that you
would get a true photo quality A2 out of a 6MP camera.

I had an A1 printed last Monday, (interpolated of course, and it is the gallery for framing)
and already received an order therefore. Same one is meant for a Christmas gift, so I’ll have to have another one printed. The order is for a entrance hall and they want two others as well. All 3 in A1 size. It is printed without the logo.

http://home.intekom.com/davesplace/margate/mrgt6255-s.jpg

Dave