TIF image is missing subjects!

S
Posted By
SparkyGuy
Jun 11, 2007
Views
493
Replies
11
Status
Closed
Took an outdoor portrait of friends. Camera gives high-res JPG file.

P’shopped it a bit which included selecting the subjects and applying a bit of brightness/contrast shifting. Looks good.

Saved it as a TIFF file.

Opened it up in a viewer (Preview, a Mac app) and the area that I selected and altered the brightness/contrast of is "cut out". Gone.

All looks normal in P’shop. If it was a native P’shop file, I’m aware of merging layers, but it’s not necessary or possible in a TIFF, is it? (This menu option is grayed-out.)

Obviously I’m missing something. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

OS X 10.3.9
Photoshop CS 8.0 (Mac)

Thanks,
Related Tags
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John McWilliams
Jun 11, 2007
SparkyGuy wrote:
Took an outdoor portrait of friends. Camera gives high-res JPG file.
P’shopped it a bit which included selecting the subjects and applying a bit of brightness/contrast shifting. Looks good.

Saved it as a TIFF file.

Opened it up in a viewer (Preview, a Mac app) and the area that I selected and altered the brightness/contrast of is "cut out". Gone.
All looks normal in P’shop. If it was a native P’shop file, I’m aware of merging layers, but it’s not necessary or possible in a TIFF, is it? (This menu option is grayed-out.)

Obviously I’m missing something. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

OS X 10.3.9
Photoshop CS 8.0 (Mac)

Tiffs can manage layers, but I don’t think Preview likes them. Try again, but flatten image, and save to both jpeg and tiff.

—
john mcwilliams
S
SparkyGuy
Jun 11, 2007
Tiffs can manage layers, but I don’t think Preview likes them. Try again, but flatten image, and save to both jpeg and tiff.

"Flatten" is also grayed-out.

As a practice, I avoid saving to JPG (compression losses), but I saved this as JPG and it appears normal.

So this is just a bug in Preview?

How come TIFF format of this file is 10x the size of JPG?

Thanks,
K
KatWoman
Jun 11, 2007
"SparkyGuy" wrote in message
Tiffs can manage layers, but I don’t think Preview likes them. Try again, but flatten image, and save to both jpeg and tiff.

"Flatten" is also grayed-out.

As a practice, I avoid saving to JPG (compression losses), but I saved this
as JPG and it appears normal.

So this is just a bug in Preview?

How come TIFF format of this file is 10x the size of JPG?
Thanks,

you did not select compression so it is not compressed and therefore larger than a jpg (by default compressed)
when you save the tiff look at the options
layered or flat
save or save a copy

there should be another dialog box after save re-asking the tiff save options
some viewers cannot see the layers and only show you the top most (often alpha) layer
T
Tacit
Jun 12, 2007
In article ,
SparkyGuy wrote:

How come TIFF format of this file is 10x the size of JPG?

Because all JPEG files are compressed.

The JPEG standard was invented for situations where file size on disk is absolutely critical but image quality is not important. It makes the size of the file very small on disk. It does this by intentionally degrading the quality of the image; the image quality is sacrificed for the purpose of a smaller file.

When you saved your TIFF, did you by any chance include any alpha channels in the TIFF?

—
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S
SparkyGuy
Jun 12, 2007
Because all JPEG files are compressed.

This I know. But where is the additional pic data coming from? The original photo is JPG, size ~1.4 MB. When I open that in Photoshop and then save as TIF, all of a sudden it’s 10x as large.

Compression, yes, but "expansion"? Not sure I understand the mechanism at work there…

BTW, a correction: the files (both JPG and TIF) have only 1 layer. So there’s nothing to "flatten", to the best of my knowledge…

Is there anything I can do to ensure that the "cutout" thing (see original post) doesn’t happen to the recipient of this file?

Thanks,
AM
Andrew Morton
Jun 12, 2007
SparkyGuy wrote:
Because all JPEG files are compressed.

This I know. But where is the additional pic data coming from? The original photo is JPG, size ~1.4 MB. When I open that in Photoshop and then save as TIF, all of a sudden it’s 10x as large.
Compression, yes, but "expansion"? Not sure I understand the mechanism at work there…

File size and image size are not the same thing.

When you re-save as a TIFF, you are (most likely) not compressing the image data in the file.

You want to keep quality=>use a lossless format (e.g. TIFF, psd, raw) You want small file sizes (e.g. for web pages)=>use jpeg

Andrew
S
SparkyGuy
Jun 12, 2007
File size and image size are not the same thing.

Yes, I know.

When you re-save as a TIFF, you are (most likely) not compressing the image data in the file.

The original (JPG) file is ~1.3 MB. It grows to ~10 MB when I save it as TIF.

If I go the other way (original is TIF, saving as JPG) I understand the compression mechanism involved. But going JPG -> TIF, I don’t understand where the additional ~9 MB of picture data is coming from.

You want to keep quality=>use a lossless format (e.g. TIFF, psd, raw) You want small file sizes (e.g. for web pages)=>use jpeg

Yes, I know.
AM
Andrew Morton
Jun 12, 2007
SparkyGuy wrote:
File size and image size are not the same thing.

Yes, I know.

When you re-save as a TIFF, you are (most likely) not compressing the image data in the file.

The original (JPG) file is ~1.3 MB. It grows to ~10 MB when I save it as TIF.

If I go the other way (original is TIF, saving as JPG) I understand the compression mechanism involved. But going JPG -> TIF, I don’t understand where the additional ~9 MB of picture data is coming from.

There always was 10MB of image data, it’s just that it gets squashed into a
1.3MB file with jpeg compression.

Andrew
S
SparkyGuy
Jun 12, 2007
There always was 10MB of image data, it’s just that it gets squashed into a
1.3MB file with jpeg compression.

Andrew

Doh!!! (c:

Thanks,
K
KatWoman
Jun 12, 2007
"SparkyGuy" wrote in message
File size and image size are not the same thing.

Yes, I know.

When you re-save as a TIFF, you are (most likely) not compressing the image
data in the file.

The original (JPG) file is ~1.3 MB. It grows to ~10 MB when I save it as TIF.

If I go the other way (original is TIF, saving as JPG) I understand the compression mechanism involved. But going JPG -> TIF, I don’t understand where the additional ~9 MB of picture data is coming from.
You want to keep quality=>use a lossless format (e.g. TIFF, psd, raw) You want small file sizes (e.g. for web pages)=>use jpeg

Yes, I know.

duh>>>>> the jpg orig is compressed so when you open it it uncompresses itself and is bigger
(like a zip or rar)
my camera may make a jpg file 1.8 MB on the compact flash card and copied to hard drive the file size remains 1.8
opened in PS same file is about 14 MB
(RAW and uncompressed same cam makes file about 16 MB)

I have had to flatten and re-save under different file name to make that alpha layer go away once the file has got saved funny the first time, opening and flattening the faulty file and re-saving did not work for me
T
Tacit
Jun 12, 2007
In article ,
SparkyGuy wrote:

This I know. But where is the additional pic data coming from? The original photo is JPG, size ~1.4 MB. When I open that in Photoshop and then save as TIF, all of a sudden it’s 10x as large.

Compression, yes, but "expansion"? Not sure I understand the mechanism at work there…

When you save a JPEG, the picture is compressed. When you load the JPEG into Photoshop, or any other program, the compressed information must be expanded in order to show you the pictures.

You know how Zip files work, right? You compress a file into a Zip archive, then to use the file you must uncompress it. Same sort of thing.

BTW, a correction: the files (both JPG and TIF) have only 1 layer. So
there’s
nothing to "flatten", to the best of my knowledge…
Is there anything I can do to ensure that the "cutout" thing (see
original
post) doesn’t happen to the recipient of this file?

What about channels? Do you have any alpha channels in the image? Look in the Channels palette.

—
Photography, kink, polyamory, shareware, and more: all at http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html

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