Sharpening

Gary

i don’t understand what you mean by "paint smoothing" but i would do the other things in this order

1 resize image to final size
2 copy original, blur layer, add a hide all black mask and paint in the blur effect you want on the black mask with white soft brush
3 copy original above blur layer, sharpen add a hide all black mask and paint in the sharpen effect with a white brush on the black mask for the eyes etc
4 dodge and burn

the important thing is to do the sharpening at the final image size. Actually if you are careful with painting in blur and sharpening steps 2 and 3 above could be interchanged but I would do the dodge burn last. There is a book on sharpening by Photoshop guru Bruce Fraser which i would highly recommend.

Malcolm Smith

"Gary F. Pitel" wrote in message

I want to sharpen the eyes in an image. Now I also will blur the image and dodge and burn the image. My question is when should I do the sharpening before I do anything else or after all the other adjustments are done? I will make a copy of the original image and use that for the surface blur and than I will also mask that layer to control the blurring. Next I will do some paint smoothing on another layer and lastly I will dodge and burn on another layer.
So when should I do the sharpening and is that done on the original background layer or what layer is best to do it on? Thanks

"Gary F. Pitel" wrote:

I want to sharpen the eyes in an image. Now I also will blur the image and dodge and burn the image. My question is when should I do the sharpening before I do anything else or after all the other adjustments are done? I will make a copy of the original image and use that for the surface blur and than I will also mask that layer to control the blurring. Next I will do some paint smoothing on another layer and lastly I will dodge and burn on another layer.
So when should I do the sharpening and is that done on the original background layer or what layer is best to do it on? Thanks

I don’t think there is any single answer to all questions, and some technique may depend on other to get the best out of all. Example

– If you just blur to soften a little then you may be able to sharpen after soften.

– But if you blur to turn (skin texture for example) into plastic then it would be hard for sharpen to reverse the sharpness. In this case Masking may be the answer.

Or you can exclue the area you want to sharpen (I would use Mask as Mask gives more control than excluding). And of course I have no idea what type of image you have in mind, when I am thinking of headshot.

Joel wrote:

"Gary F. Pitel" wrote:

I want to sharpen the eyes in an image. Now I also will blur the image and dodge and burn the image. My question is when should I do the sharpening before I do anything else or after all the other adjustments are done? I will make a copy of the original image and use that for the surface blur and than I will also mask that layer to control the blurring. Next I will do some paint smoothing on another layer and lastly I will dodge and burn on another layer.
So when should I do the sharpening and is that done on the original background layer or what layer is best to do it on? Thanks

I don’t think there is any single answer to all questions, and some technique may depend on other to get the best out of all. Example
– If you just blur to soften a little then you may be able to sharpen after soften.

– But if you blur to turn (skin texture for example) into plastic then it would be hard for sharpen to reverse the sharpness. In this case Masking may be the answer.

Or you can exclue the area you want to sharpen (I would use Mask as Mask gives more control than excluding). And of course I have no idea what type of image you have in mind, when I am thinking of headshot.

The subject is a Portrait of a Women. I only will be sharpening the eyes

and I will be using a mask for the blurring to smooth the face and paint smoothing is just to blur it a little more and to make the blur uniform. The dodging is to eliminate some wrinkles. Yes I will size the image on the very first step. I will do everything on its own layer. I am lost as to where to put the layer in the layer order when I do the final step and sharpen the eyes.

Does it want to be the very top layer? Do I want to do it on a copy of the background layer (untouched layer) or on a copy of the blur layer? Thanks!

Gary F. Pitel wrote:

I want to sharpen the eyes in an image. Now I also will blur the image and dodge and burn the image. My question is when should I do the sharpening before I do anything else or after all the other adjustments are done? I will make a copy of the original image and use that for the surface blur and than I will also mask that layer to control the blurring. Next I will do some paint smoothing on another layer and lastly I will dodge and burn on another layer.
So when should I do the sharpening and is that done on the original background layer or what layer is best to do it on? Thanks

The subject is a Portrait of a Women. I only will be sharpening the eyes and I will be using a mask for the blurring to smooth the face and paint smoothing is just to blur it a little more and to make the blur uniform. The dodging is to eliminate some wrinkles. Yes I will size the image on the very first step. I will do everything on its own layer. I am lost as to where to put the layer in the layer order when I do the final step and sharpen the eyes.

Does it want to be the very top layer? Do I want to do it on a copy of the background layer (untouched layer) or on a copy of the blur layer? Thanks!

"Gary F. Pitel" wrote:

Joel wrote:

"Gary F. Pitel" wrote:

I want to sharpen the eyes in an image. Now I also will blur the image and dodge and burn the image. My question is when should I do the sharpening before I do anything else or after all the other adjustments are done? I will make a copy of the original image and use that for the surface blur and than I will also mask that layer to control the blurring. Next I will do some paint smoothing on another layer and lastly I will dodge and burn on another layer.
So when should I do the sharpening and is that done on the original background layer or what layer is best to do it on? Thanks

I don’t think there is any single answer to all questions, and some technique may depend on other to get the best out of all. Example
– If you just blur to soften a little then you may be able to sharpen after soften.

– But if you blur to turn (skin texture for example) into plastic then it would be hard for sharpen to reverse the sharpness. In this case Masking may be the answer.

Or you can exclue the area you want to sharpen (I would use Mask as Mask gives more control than excluding). And of course I have no idea what type of image you have in mind, when I am thinking of headshot.

The subject is a Portrait of a Women. I only will be sharpening the eyes

Female portraiture I often soften the skin a little, and leave the eyes alone or sometime sharpen a little.

Since I usually apply a very little soften so I just

1. Mark the eyes (3-4 pixels feather) or any area I don’t want to soften, then EXCLUDE (Select -> Inverse ?) the eyes. Then you will have the rest soften except the eyes

2. And if I want to sharpen the eyes a little more then I just apply directly to the eyes (25-40% or so).

and I will be using a mask for the blurring to smooth the face and paint smoothing is just to blur it a little more and to make the blur uniform. The dodging is to eliminate some wrinkles. Yes I will size the image on the very first step. I will do everything on its own layer. I am lost as to where to put the layer in the layer order when I do the final step and sharpen the eyes.

I use Mask & multiple layers quite often and I don’t follow the exact step’s but when or whatever I feel like.

– Winkles, it depends on the situation you can use

– Clone Tool with low opacity (tablet is a good tool as you can go over and over and over multiple times which is better than once at higher opacity)

– Healing Spot/Path is also a good tool

– Layer, using Paint Brush to apply a low opacity color (using eyedrop to pick the sample), then combination with either Erase Tool or Masking to soften the winkle.

IOW, it’s not only depending on the technique but depending on the age or your style. Or you don’t want to completely remove all winkles from an elder person, or you don’t want to leave heavy winkle on young person (especially female).

Does it want to be the very top layer? Do I want to do it on a copy of the background layer (untouched layer) or on a copy of the blur layer? Thanks!

I always make a dupe of the original, and for most works I work on the top layer and masking to get the original information from the lower original layer.

Sometime I have multiple layers, maskes for different need’s so I use whatever suites me the most or cutting down the time. And because I have retouched hundreds of thousands of photos, so I don’t often spend more than 1-2 minutes (many in less than 1 minute, and some can be up to 10-20 mins). Or before I start doing anything I spend few second to study the photo first, and I usually know exactly what I may do (my style and what I know) so I don’t need to waste the time thinking what to do <bg>

Joel wrote:

"Gary F. Pitel" wrote:

Joel wrote:

"Gary F. Pitel" wrote:

I want to sharpen the eyes in an image. Now I also will blur the image and dodge and burn the image. My question is when should I do the sharpening before I do anything else or after all the other adjustments are done? I will make a copy of the original image and use that for the surface blur and than I will also mask that layer to control the blurring. Next I will do some paint smoothing on another layer and lastly I will dodge and burn on another layer.
So when should I do the sharpening and is that done on the original background layer or what layer is best to do it on? Thanks

I don’t think there is any single answer to all questions, and some technique may depend on other to get the best out of all. Example
– If you just blur to soften a little then you may be able to sharpen after soften.

– But if you blur to turn (skin texture for example) into plastic then it would be hard for sharpen to reverse the sharpness. In this case Masking may be the answer.

Or you can exclue the area you want to sharpen (I would use Mask as Mask gives more control than excluding). And of course I have no idea what type of image you have in mind, when I am thinking of headshot.

The subject is a Portrait of a Women. I only will be sharpening the eyes

Female portraiture I often soften the skin a little, and leave the eyes alone or sometime sharpen a little.

Since I usually apply a very little soften so I just

1. Mark the eyes (3-4 pixels feather) or any area I don’t want to soften, then EXCLUDE (Select -> Inverse ?) the eyes. Then you will have the rest soften except the eyes

2. And if I want to sharpen the eyes a little more then I just apply directly to the eyes (25-40% or so).

and I will be using a mask for the blurring to smooth the face and paint smoothing is just to blur it a little more and to make the blur uniform. The dodging is to eliminate some wrinkles. Yes I will size the image on the very first step. I will do everything on its own layer. I am lost as to where to put the layer in the layer order when I do the final step and sharpen the eyes.

I use Mask & multiple layers quite often and I don’t follow the exact step’s but when or whatever I feel like.

– Winkles, it depends on the situation you can use

– Clone Tool with low opacity (tablet is a good tool as you can go over and over and over multiple times which is better than once at higher opacity)

– Healing Spot/Path is also a good tool

– Layer, using Paint Brush to apply a low opacity color (using eyedrop to pick the sample), then combination with either Erase Tool or Masking to soften the winkle.

IOW, it’s not only depending on the technique but depending on the age or your style. Or you don’t want to completely remove all winkles from an elder person, or you don’t want to leave heavy winkle on young person (especially female).

Does it want to be the very top layer? Do I want to do it on a copy of the background layer (untouched layer) or on a copy of the blur layer? Thanks!

I always make a dupe of the original, and for most works I work on the top layer and masking to get the original information from the lower original layer.

Sometime I have multiple layers, maskes for different need’s so I use whatever suites me the most or cutting down the time. And because I have retouched hundreds of thousands of photos, so I don’t often spend more than 1-2 minutes (many in less than 1 minute, and some can be up to 10-20 mins). Or before I start doing anything I spend few second to study the photo first, and I usually know exactly what I may do (my style and what I know) so I don’t need to waste the time thinking what to do <bg>

Thank you for a very through answer which really answers my question and taught me a lot. I only wish that I could do more with my photos and at a faster pace.

rdoc wrote:

<snip>

Thank you for a very through answer which really answers my question and taught me a lot. I only wish that I could do more with my photos and at a faster pace.

Well, I started at about the same speed most newbie do. My first one took me 1-2 months for few simple adjusting (because I had no idea where to start and what to use). My first B&W to color took me nearly 3 weeks (after I know dozen commands but not yet mastered) on a (60-70+ years) old photo. Then it reduced to 1-2 days on good photo, then less than 1 day .. less than an hour… and now I can pretty much do an average photo in less than 1 min, and detail work for between 5-20 mins.

Well, I am also a professional photographer so it also depend on my photography skill to avoid repairing, and I know both my photography and photo retouching style pretty well (even after hundereds of thousands of photos, and tens of thousands of detailed works .. it’s still endless learning). Or it’s hard for me to give any specific answer because I have to learn many different techniques, styles, and getting around the problem to deal with many different situations.

On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 09:49:51 -0500, Joel wrote:

rdoc wrote:

<snip>

Thank you for a very through answer which really answers my question and taught me a lot. I only wish that I could do more with my photos and at a faster pace.

Well, I started at about the same speed most newbie do. My first one took me 1-2 months for few simple adjusting (because I had no idea where to start and what to use). My first B&W to color took me nearly 3 weeks (after I know dozen commands but not yet mastered) on a (60-70+ years) old photo. Then it reduced to 1-2 days on good photo, then less than 1 day .. less than an hour… and now I can pretty much do an average photo in less than 1 min, and detail work for between 5-20 mins.

I agree with Joel, rdoc2. What happens is that when you first start out using PhotoShop, you try all types of things to see what works and what doesn’t. As you become more proficient with it, you learn what doesn’t work. Knowing what doesn’t work is what saves time.

Talker

Talker wrote:

On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 09:49:51 -0500, Joel wrote:

rdoc wrote:

<snip>

Thank you for a very through answer which really answers my question and taught me a lot. I only wish that I could do more with my photos and at a faster pace.

Well, I started at about the same speed most newbie do. My first one took me 1-2 months for few simple adjusting (because I had no idea where to start and what to use). My first B&W to color took me nearly 3 weeks (after I know dozen commands but not yet mastered) on a (60-70+ years) old photo. Then it reduced to 1-2 days on good photo, then less than 1 day .. less than an hour… and now I can pretty much do an average photo in less than 1 min, and detail work for between 5-20 mins.

I agree with Joel, rdoc2. What happens is that when you first start out using PhotoShop, you try all types of things to see what works and what doesn’t. As you become more proficient with it, you learn what doesn’t work. Knowing what doesn’t work is what saves time.

Talker

You guys make me feel better and I understand what you are saying. I have spent a lot of hours in my 15 years with computers and I still know that there is something new to learn everyday. The nice part is that there are people like yourself that are willing to help those that need the help. One thing for sure Photoshop is one great area but requires endless learning but I really enjoy it. Thanks again.

On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 23:22:05 -0400, rdoc

You guys make me feel better and I understand what you are saying. I have spent a lot of hours in my 15 years with computers and I still know that there is something new to learn everyday. The nice part is that there are people like yourself that are willing to help those that need the help. One thing for sure Photoshop is one great area but requires endless learning but I really enjoy it. Thanks again.

There are many examples of the magic of Photoshop on the Net, but here’s a few that I found interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkdXoGEUVRk

and then there’s http://bressane.com/retouching/index.php (click on the Retouching tab)

Talker

Talker wrote:

On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 23:22:05 -0400, rdoc

You guys make me feel better and I understand what you are saying. I have spent a lot of hours in my 15 years with computers and I still know that there is something new to learn everyday. The nice part is that there are people like yourself that are willing to help those that need the help. One thing for sure Photoshop is one great area but requires endless learning but I really enjoy it. Thanks again.

There are many examples of the magic of Photoshop on the Net, but here’s a few that I found interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkdXoGEUVRk

and then there’s http://bressane.com/retouching/index.php (click on the Retouching tab)

Talker

I love those, that is unreal. Thanks I really enjoyed that!

rdoc wrote:

Talker wrote:

On Sun, 01 Jul 2007 23:22:05 -0400, rdoc

You guys make me feel better and I understand what you are saying. I have spent a lot of hours in my 15 years with computers and I still know that there is something new to learn everyday. The nice part is that there are people like yourself that are willing to help those that need the help. One thing for sure Photoshop is one great area but requires endless learning but I really enjoy it. Thanks again.

There are many examples of the magic of Photoshop on the Net, but here’s a few that I found interesting.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UkdXoGEUVRk

I just watched few of the video clips and I use most of those techniques, but I can tell you that all the videos I watched are for displaying or to show others what Photoshop is capable of, but not for printing.

Or for printing it will require extra work and extra fine-tuning skill to be able to hide all the changing. Also, the larger the print the more work and more fine-tuning, because we may not be able to see the error on monitor, but the INK often clearly visible.

Why I don’t think those clips are for printing? because I don’t see they ZOOM IN 200-400+% to work on small detail (and they seem to be low-rez images). But they are good tutorials for photo retoucher to learn some idea of what the program can do.

and then there’s http://bressane.com/retouching/index.php (click on the Retouching tab)

Talker

I love those, that is unreal. Thanks I really enjoyed that!