HDR woes

Waterspider wrote:

I’ve recently been trying to accomplish the hdr technique but my results have been nothing but frustration. The original images are suitable for the process, but I’ve not been able to get anything workable. My question is…
Should I be concentrating on getting a good result from the hdr compilation, or is this something that requires further processing? Or am I wasting time trying to make a reasonable image from something that doesn’t look so good after the initial hdr step?

Exactly that. HDR is just an intermediate step, to get the huge dynamic range into one file. After that you need to process it to compress that huge dynamic range so that is it viewable on a monitor and printable. That is called ‘tone mapping’. You can do that by choosing ‘Image – Mode – 16 bits per color…’. You will get a dialog that gives you four options for tone mapping. Play with that to see if you can get any decent results.

—
Johan W. Elzenga johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.com

Waterspider wrote:

I’ve recently been trying to accomplish the hdr technique but my results have been nothing but frustration. The original images are suitable for the process, but I’ve not been able to get anything workable. My question is…
Should I be concentrating on getting a good result from the hdr compilation, or is this something that requires further processing? Or am I wasting time trying to make a reasonable image from something that doesn’t look so good after the initial hdr step?

Yup, read the manual. Nada on hdr.
Yup, googled. Haven’t found anything helpful.
Yup, accept the possibility that I’m just not good enough to master hdr.
tia

Waterspider

My first suggestion woule be to forget about Photoshops built-in HDR processor and go get yourself a copy of Photomatix.
This is a dedicated HDR processing package, and it produces some absolutely stunning results. It gives you a lot more control options than the Photoshop process too.
And you can get it as either a standalone programme, or as a Photoshop plugin.

However, if you still want to do your HDR using Photoshops built in function, here’s a few usefull pointers.

So you’ve done your File>Automate>Merge-To-HDR bit. You’ve got a quick preview of the image that looks horrible , with a histogram at the right, and thumbnails of your originals to the left.

Now at this stage, what you do will have an important impact on your final image.
The trick here is to watch the highlights and white areas, while you mive the slider below the histogram left and right. You want to gain control of the highlights. You don’t want them all blown out and white. You want detail in the highlights. Don’t worry about teh dark areas at this stage.

Once you’re happy that you have control of the highlights, click OK.

This will give you a 32bit Jpeg which just looks like a fairly normal exposure. Don’t worry. You’re only halfway finished. The real magic starts now.

So go to Image>Mode and covert teh image to 8bit RGB

This will present you with a window containing two sliders. One for exposure and the other for gamma.
Play with these until you get an image you’re happy with.

But to give you an idea of the difference between Photoshop and Potomatix for HDR, have a look at this comparison image I’ve just knocked up.

http://www.norfolklupusgroup.co.uk/misc/hdrsample.jpg

Each programme has its merits, but Photomatix will allow you much more extreme HDR styles than Photoshop will. It all depends on what you want from your HDR.
Some folks like the other-worldlines of an over-cooked extreme HDR, and others prefer the more realistic look. I tend to prefer the more realistic look, but I use Photomatix to achieve it as it allows more control.

—
http://www.norfolklupus.co.uk
http://www.thebooknook.co.uk
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40919519@N00/

Waterspider wrote:

I’ve recently been trying to accomplish the hdr technique but my results have been nothing but frustration. The original images are suitable for the process, but I’ve not been able to get anything workable. My question is…
Should I be concentrating on getting a good result from the hdr compilation, or is this something that requires further processing? Or am I wasting time trying to make a reasonable image from something that doesn’t look so good after the initial hdr step?

Yup, read the manual. Nada on hdr.
Yup, googled. Haven’t found anything helpful.
Yup, accept the possibility that I’m just not good enough to master hdr.
tia

Waterspider

You can also simulate an HDR effect with one single Jpeg by using Image>Adjustments>Shadow & Highlight.

Note I said "Simulate".
It’s not real HDR, and you will introduce noise into your final image, but the effect can sometimes be pretty hard to tell apart from a real HDR.

This image is the same scene as in my last example. I used the middle exposure only and applied the Shadow & Highlight adjustment to it. http://www.norflklupusgroup.co.uk/misc/fakehdr.jpg
As you can see, it makes a fairly convincing HDR fake.

This does rely on you using a good quality digital camera with a high quality CCD. A DSLR or a Prosumer model at the very least. It also relies on the original shot being correctly exposed, or if anything else, a little under exposed.

—
http://www.norfolklupus.co.uk
http://www.thebooknook.co.uk
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40919519@N00/

Fat Sam wrote:

http://www.norflklupusgroup.co.uk/misc/fakehdr.jpg

Whoops.
Let me just fix that URL.

http://www.norfolklupusgroup.co.uk/misc/fakehdr.jpg

There, that’s better.

—
http://www.norfolklupus.co.uk
http://www.thebooknook.co.uk
http://www.flickr.com/photos/40919519@N00/

"Fat Sam" wrote in message

Waterspider wrote:

I’ve recently been trying to accomplish the hdr technique but my results have been nothing but frustration. The original images are suitable for the process, but I’ve not been able to get anything workable. My question is…
Should I be concentrating on getting a good result from the hdr compilation, or is this something that requires further processing? Or am I wasting time trying to make a reasonable image from something that doesn’t look so good after the initial hdr step?

Yup, read the manual. Nada on hdr.
Yup, googled. Haven’t found anything helpful.
Yup, accept the possibility that I’m just not good enough to master hdr.
tia

Waterspider

My first suggestion woule be to forget about Photoshops built-in HDR processor and go get yourself a copy of Photomatix.
This is a dedicated HDR processing package, and it produces some absolutely stunning results. It gives you a lot more control options than the Photoshop process too.
And you can get it as either a standalone programme, or as a Photoshop plugin.

However, if you still want to do your HDR using Photoshops built in function, here’s a few usefull pointers.

So you’ve done your File>Automate>Merge-To-HDR bit. You’ve got a quick preview of the image that looks horrible , with a histogram at the right, and thumbnails of your originals to the left.
Now at this stage, what you do will have an important impact on your final image.
The trick here is to watch the highlights and white areas, while you mive the slider below the histogram left and right. You want to gain control of the highlights. You don’t want them all blown out and white. You want detail in the highlights. Don’t worry about teh dark areas at this stage.
Once you’re happy that you have control of the highlights, click OK.
This will give you a 32bit Jpeg which just looks like a fairly normal exposure. Don’t worry. You’re only halfway finished. The real magic starts now.

So go to Image>Mode and covert teh image to 8bit RGB

This will present you with a window containing two sliders. One for exposure and the other for gamma.
Play with these until you get an image you’re happy with.
But to give you an idea of the difference between Photoshop and Potomatix for HDR, have a look at this comparison image I’ve just knocked up.
http://www.norfolklupusgroup.co.uk/misc/hdrsample.jpg

Each programme has its merits, but Photomatix will allow you much more extreme HDR styles than Photoshop will. It all depends on what you want from your HDR.
Some folks like the other-worldlines of an over-cooked extreme HDR, and others prefer the more realistic look. I tend to prefer the more realistic look, but I use Photomatix to achieve it as it allows more control.

from your example I prefer the PS one

KatWoman wrote:

"Fat Sam" wrote in message

Waterspider wrote:

I’ve recently been trying to accomplish the hdr technique but my results have been nothing but frustration. The original images are suitable for the process, but I’ve not been able to get anything workable. My question is…
Should I be concentrating on getting a good result from the hdr compilation, or is this something that requires further processing? Or am I wasting time trying to make a reasonable image from something that doesn’t look so good after the initial hdr step?
Yup, read the manual. Nada on hdr.
Yup, googled. Haven’t found anything helpful.
Yup, accept the possibility that I’m just not good enough to master hdr.
tia

Waterspider

My first suggestion woule be to forget about Photoshops built-in HDR processor and go get yourself a copy of Photomatix.
This is a dedicated HDR processing package, and it produces some absolutely stunning results. It gives you a lot more control options than the Photoshop process too.
And you can get it as either a standalone programme, or as a Photoshop plugin.

However, if you still want to do your HDR using Photoshops built in function, here’s a few usefull pointers.

So you’ve done your File>Automate>Merge-To-HDR bit. You’ve got a quick preview of the image that looks horrible , with a histogram at the right, and thumbnails of your originals to the left.
Now at this stage, what you do will have an important impact on your final image.
The trick here is to watch the highlights and white areas, while you mive the slider below the histogram left and right. You want to gain control of the highlights. You don’t want them all blown out and white. You want detail in the highlights. Don’t worry about teh dark areas at this stage. Once you’re happy that you have control of the highlights, click OK.

This will give you a 32bit Jpeg which just looks like a fairly normal exposure. Don’t worry. You’re only halfway finished. The real magic starts now.

So go to Image>Mode and covert teh image to 8bit RGB

This will present you with a window containing two sliders. One for exposure and the other for gamma.
Play with these until you get an image you’re happy with.
But to give you an idea of the difference between Photoshop and Potomatix for HDR, have a look at this comparison image I’ve just knocked up. http://www.norfolklupusgroup.co.uk/misc/hdrsample.jpg
Each programme has its merits, but Photomatix will allow you much more extreme HDR styles than Photoshop will. It all depends on what you want from your HDR.
Some folks like the other-worldlines of an over-cooked extreme HDR, and others prefer the more realistic look. I tend to prefer the more realistic look, but I use Photomatix to achieve it as it allows more control.

from your example I prefer the PS one

Me too if I’m honest.
I was trying to show how wacky and extreme Photomatix’ results can be compared to Photoshop’s. Basically it was an effort to illustrate that Photomatix can push your image further than Photoshop when it comes to HDR. I’ve produced some quite tastefull HDR’s in Photomatix too, like this one. http://flickr.com/photos/swampy_bogtrotter/385472716/in/set- 72157600045834882/

Fat Sam wrote:

So you’ve done your File>Automate>Merge-To-HDR bit. You’ve got a quick preview of the image that looks horrible , with a histogram at the right, and thumbnails of your originals to the left.

Now at this stage, what you do will have an important impact on your final image.

No, it won’t have any real effect at all. Look at the name of that slider. It says: ‘White Point PREVIEW’. And that’s all it is. You can change the PREVIEW with this slider, but it won’t change the underlying HDR image itself. Even if you let the highlights blow out at this stage, you can simply correct that later (for example with ‘Image – Adjustment – Exposure), because the highlights will not really be blown out. They only are blown out in the preview. Whatever you do with this slider; you can always change this later once you start tone mapping the HDR image.

—
Johan W. Elzenga johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.com

Johan W. Elzenga wrote:

Fat Sam wrote:

So you’ve done your File>Automate>Merge-To-HDR bit. You’ve got a quick preview of the image that looks horrible , with a histogram at the right, and thumbnails of your originals to the left.

Now at this stage, what you do will have an important impact on your final image.

No, it won’t have any real effect at all. Look at the name of that slider. It says: ‘White Point PREVIEW’. And that’s all it is. You can change the PREVIEW with this slider, but it won’t change the underlying HDR image itself. Even if you let the highlights blow out at this stage, you can simply correct that later (for example with ‘Image – Adjustment – Exposure), because the highlights will not really be blown out. They only are blown out in the preview. Whatever you do with this slider; you can always change this later once you start tone mapping the HDR image.

And in case you don’t believe me: This is from the Photoshop ‘Help’ file. Point 8 under ‘Merge images to HDR’ reads:

Move the slider below the histogram to preview the merged image. Moving the slider adjusts the image preview only. All the HDR image data remains intact in the merged image file. If you’re saving the merged image as 32-bpc, the preview adjustment is stored in the HDR image file and applied whenever the file is opened in Photoshop. The preview adjustment is always accessible and adjustable by choosing View > 32-Bit Preview Options.

—
Johan W. Elzenga johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.com

Johan W. Elzenga wrote:

Fat Sam wrote:

So you’ve done your File>Automate>Merge-To-HDR bit. You’ve got a quick preview of the image that looks horrible , with a histogram at the right, and thumbnails of your originals to the left.

Now at this stage, what you do will have an important impact on your final image.

No, it won’t have any real effect at all. Look at the name of that slider. It says: ‘White Point PREVIEW’. And that’s all it is. You can change the PREVIEW with this slider, but it won’t change the underlying HDR image itself. Even if you let the highlights blow out at this stage, you can simply correct that later (for example with ‘Image – Adjustment – Exposure), because the highlights will not really be blown out. They only are blown out in the preview. Whatever you do with this slider; you can always change this later once you start tone mapping the HDR image.

Damn. I’ve been wasting my time at this point trying to tame the highlights, when I didn’t need to.
I need to have words with guy who showed m how to do HDR.

Johan W. Elzenga wrote:

Johan W. Elzenga wrote:

Fat Sam wrote:

So you’ve done your File>Automate>Merge-To-HDR bit. You’ve got a quick preview of the image that looks horrible , with a histogram at the right, and thumbnails of your originals to the left.

Now at this stage, what you do will have an important impact on your final image.

No, it won’t have any real effect at all. Look at the name of that slider. It says: ‘White Point PREVIEW’. And that’s all it is. You can change the PREVIEW with this slider, but it won’t change the underlying HDR image itself. Even if you let the highlights blow out at this stage, you can simply correct that later (for example with ‘Image – Adjustment – Exposure), because the highlights will not really be blown out. They only are blown out in the preview. Whatever you do with this slider; you can always change this later once you start tone mapping the HDR image.

And in case you don’t believe me:

I believe you.
I just tried it here and you’re absolutely right.
So basically, all this time, I’ve been wasting my time taking great care at this stage, when I could have been just getting on with it. LOL. Oh well, you live and learn.

Fat Sam wrote:

Now at this stage, what you do will have an important impact on your final image.

No, it won’t have any real effect at all. Look at the name of that slider. It says: ‘White Point PREVIEW’. And that’s all it is. You can change the PREVIEW with this slider, but it won’t change the underlying HDR image itself. Even if you let the highlights blow out at this stage, you can simply correct that later (for example with ‘Image – Adjustment – Exposure), because the highlights will not really be blown out. They only are blown out in the preview. Whatever you do with this slider; you can always change this later once you start tone mapping the HDR image.

Damn. I’ve been wasting my time at this point trying to tame the highlights, when I didn’t need to.
I need to have words with guy who showed m how to do HDR.

Yeah, many people make that mistake. The way I understand it is that HDR uses a separate preview because the file structure is totally different from 16 bits or 8 bits images. 16 bit and 8 bits images are defined by an integer value, so it’s just the binary value in bits. HDR on the other hand is based on so-called ‘floating point’ values. That means that a value of say 1,000,000,000 is noted as 10E9 (well, the binary equivalent of course, but you get the point). Because of this, it would take far too much time to display an HDR image, and so a preview is used instead.

—
Johan W. Elzenga johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.com