Which video card(s) for CS 3 or 4?

FK
Posted By
Father Kodak
Jan 7, 2009
Views
787
Replies
20
Status
Closed
How would you answer these questions:

In general, which video card maker, AMD/ATI or nVidia, has "better" performance for CS 3 or 4? "Better" is a combination of stability and performance?

If you were buying or building a new system today and Photoshop usage was a key factor, what would you look for in a video card? How much memory, what speed GPU, etc.

Thanks

Father Kodak

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J
JD
Jan 8, 2009
Father Kodak wrote:
How would you answer these questions:

In general, which video card maker, AMD/ATI or nVidia, has "better" performance for CS 3 or 4? "Better" is a combination of stability and performance?

If you were buying or building a new system today and Photoshop usage was a key factor, what would you look for in a video card? How much memory, what speed GPU, etc.

Thanks

Father Kodak

The more important question is what operating system? I built a new system with an eye to using CS3 on Windows XP. Is that the OS you would be using? There are certain RAM limitations in a 32 bit OS that may limit your Video Card RAM. If you’re interested I can elaborate on the system I built. Are you building a new system or upgrading an old system?


JD..
R
Rob
Jan 8, 2009
Father Kodak wrote:
How would you answer these questions:

In general, which video card maker, AMD/ATI or nVidia, has "better" performance for CS 3 or 4? "Better" is a combination of stability and performance?

If you were buying or building a new system today and Photoshop usage was a key factor, what would you look for in a video card? How much memory, what speed GPU, etc.

Thanks

Father Kodak

This may help and explain more. These have been tested by Adobe as being compatible with CS4. Plus as they say you need the latest drivers to go with the card, don’t just rely on the cd that comes with the card.

http://kb.adobe.com/selfservice/viewContent.do?externalId=kb 405711&sliceId=1
JP
John Passaneau
Jan 8, 2009
Rob wrote:
Father Kodak wrote:
How would you answer these questions:

In general, which video card maker, AMD/ATI or nVidia, has "better" performance for CS 3 or 4? "Better" is a combination of stability and performance?

If you were buying or building a new system today and Photoshop usage was a key factor, what would you look for in a video card? How much memory, what speed GPU, etc.

Thanks

Father Kodak
For CS3 it doesn’t matter that much. CS3 make no use of most the the power of the video card. For CS4 the juries is still out. But more people seem to be reporting problems with nVidia than any other maker. But that may be because more people are using nVidia than the others makers. It does seem that the nVidia "helper" or control program causes more problems than it should. The conventional wisdom is to delete it or never install it. It is NOT need to run the card Windows controls do all that is needed. All you need is the driver.

John Passaneau
FA
Frank Arthur
Jan 8, 2009
"Father Kodak" wrote in message
How would you answer these questions:

In general, which video card maker, AMD/ATI or nVidia, has "better" performance for CS 3 or 4? "Better" is a combination of stability and
performance?

If you were buying or building a new system today and Photoshop usage
was a key factor, what would you look for in a video card? How much memory, what speed GPU, etc.

Thanks

Father Kodak

Adobe lists the tested Video Cards for use with Photoshop CS4
G
gowanoh
Jan 8, 2009
Unless you have a massive (i.e. 30inches or larger) hi resolution panel even a motherboard based graphics chip will work fine with Photoshop. All modern computer video systems, meaning nearly anything made in about the last ten years, have enough available ram to drive all but the largest and highest resolution video systems.
The GUI based functions in CS4 are currently a demonstration project only and seem irrelevant in actual usage.
Unless you are are an ardent computer gamer the most basic, old video card will work as well as a tri-SLI configuration for Photoshop. I have an ATI 4870, a wonderful gaming card. But for Photoshop, with my 20 inch LCD panel, that card is using no more resources than any other video system that would be a fraction of the price. And wasting electricity. If Photoshop did not run on wimpy video systems no one would be able to run Photoshop on the latest Mac desktops which are saddled with obsolete video systems at ultra premium prices.
JJ
John J
Jan 8, 2009
D Lirious wrote:
Unless you have a massive (i.e. 30inches or larger) hi resolution panel even a motherboard based graphics chip will work fine with Photoshop. All modern computer video systems, meaning nearly anything made in about the last ten years, have enough available ram to drive all but the largest and highest resolution video systems.

Yes.

The GUI based functions in CS4 are currently a demonstration project only and seem irrelevant in actual usage.

I think CS4 uses the graphics card (when available) for 3D rendering. I’d appreciate some clarification on that.

So are you saying that Adobe’s use of the graphic card is applied to minor (or new) features that are not fully implemented so that a weak graphics card is mot important?

Thanks for considering my question.

John
R
rdoc2
Jan 9, 2009
On Jan 7, 10:55 pm, JD wrote:
Father Kodak wrote:
How would you answer these questions:

In general, which video card maker, AMD/ATI or nVidia, has "better" performance for CS 3 or 4? "Better" is a combination of stability and performance?

If you were buying or building a new system today and Photoshop usage was a key factor, what would you look for in a video card? How much memory, what speed GPU, etc.

Thanks

Father Kodak

The more important question is what operating system? I built a new system with an eye to using CS3 on Windows XP. Is that the OS you would be using? There are certain RAM limitations in a 32 bit OS that may limit your Video Card RAM. If you’re interested I can elaborate on the system I built. Are you building a new system or upgrading an old system?

JD..

Yes I would like to know more about the system you built since I am about to build a new system and I am using CS4. Thanks
J
JD
Jan 10, 2009
RDOC wrote:
On Jan 7, 10:55 pm, JD wrote:
Father Kodak wrote:
How would you answer these questions:
In general, which video card maker, AMD/ATI or nVidia, has "better" performance for CS 3 or 4? "Better" is a combination of stability and performance?
If you were buying or building a new system today and Photoshop usage was a key factor, what would you look for in a video card? How much memory, what speed GPU, etc.
Thanks
Father Kodak
The more important question is what operating system? I built a new system with an eye to using CS3 on Windows XP. Is that the OS you would be using? There are certain RAM limitations in a 32 bit OS that may limit your Video Card RAM. If you’re interested I can elaborate on the system I built. Are you building a new system or upgrading an old system?

JD..

Yes I would like to know more about the system you built since I am about to build a new system and I am using CS4. Thanks

The system I built was for the 32 bit Windows XP home edition, I’m using CS3. Are you still interested in the details? Most the parts were purchased online.


JD..
R
rdoc2
Jan 10, 2009
On Jan 9, 10:12 pm, JD wrote:
RDOC wrote:
On Jan 7, 10:55 pm, JD wrote:
Father Kodak wrote:
How would you answer these questions:
In general, which video card maker, AMD/ATI or nVidia, has "better" performance for CS 3 or 4? "Better" is a combination of stability and performance?
If you were buying or building a new system today and Photoshop usage was a key factor, what would you look for in a video card? How much memory, what speed GPU, etc.
Thanks
Father Kodak
The more important question is what operating system? I built a new system with an eye to using CS3 on Windows XP. Is that the OS you would be using? There are certain RAM limitations in a 32 bit OS that may limit your Video Card RAM. If you’re interested I can elaborate on the system I built. Are you building a new system or upgrading an old system?


JD..

Yes I would like to know more about the system you built since I am about to build a new system and I am using CS4. Thanks

The system I built was for the 32 bit Windows XP home edition, I’m using CS3. Are you still interested in the details? Most the parts were purchased online.


JD..

Please if you it would be a great help to me. Thanks
J
JD
Jan 10, 2009
RDOC wrote:
On Jan 9, 10:12 pm, JD wrote:
RDOC wrote:
On Jan 7, 10:55 pm, JD wrote:
Father Kodak wrote:
How would you answer these questions:
In general, which video card maker, AMD/ATI or nVidia, has "better" performance for CS 3 or 4? "Better" is a combination of stability and performance?
If you were buying or building a new system today and Photoshop usage was a key factor, what would you look for in a video card? How much memory, what speed GPU, etc.
Thanks
Father Kodak
The more important question is what operating system? I built a new system with an eye to using CS3 on Windows XP. Is that the OS you would be using? There are certain RAM limitations in a 32 bit OS that may limit your Video Card RAM. If you’re interested I can elaborate on the system I built. Are you building a new system or upgrading an old system? —
JD..
Yes I would like to know more about the system you built since I am about to build a new system and I am using CS4. Thanks
The system I built was for the 32 bit Windows XP home edition, I’m using CS3. Are you still interested in the details? Most the parts were purchased online.


JD..

Please if you it would be a great help to me. Thanks

For anybody else reading this, I’m not trying to get into a pi$$ing match over the details. RDOC ask for the details regarding the box I built.

From my research, a 32-bit OS can only address 4 GB of RAM so as one adds a video card and other hardware that takes some of that address space, the OS won’t be able to address all 4 GB of RAM.

That said, I bought 4 GB of dual layer RAM because RAM is so cheap and I was told the dual layer RAM needs to be installed in matching pairs. I paid $100 for four sticks of RAM: Kingston 2048MB PC5400 DDR2 667MHz (2x1024MB). On the hardware tab of System Properties, it reports 3.25 GB of RAM so that unused .75 GB of RAM cost me about $19.

I’ve used AMD chips for 10 years. I paid $113 for my processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ Windsor 3.0GHz Socket AM2 125W Dual-Core Processor Model ADX6000CZBOX – Retail. I was told Intel chips are better?

I’ve used Western Digital hard drives for 16 years. To put the PS scratch disk on a separate hdd I purchased two drives: WD Caviar 320GB SATA-3G HD 7200/16MB/SATA-3G. They cost $60 each. I bought these for the 16 MB buffer. Older drives are only 8 MB buffer.

I was told CS3 didn’t need a bad-boy video card so I paid $100 for my 256 MB video card: Visiontek Radeon HD 2600 Pro 256MB PCIe. Some people said I should go with 500 MB on the video card but that would take away some of my memory address for the system RAM. Right or wrong on that never-ending system memory address discussion, the 256 MB card was purchased.

The video card came with the ATI Catalyst software which I use to create different monitor profiles. The default setting on my monitor is way too bright for me. I have profiles for PS, normal viewing and the default brightness which I don’t ever use. The software let me setup keyboard shortcuts for each profile. I don’t use any color calibration software although I’ve looked at the ColorVision DataColor Spyder2express Color Calibration System and may try that later.

I bought two DVDrw drives, one without included software and one with Nero 7 Essentials included and Lightscribe (which I’ll never use): Lite-On DVDRW 20X SATA OEM. One drive was $25, the other was $30.

I did a custom install of the Nero 7 and it works OK for making and copying CDs and DVDs.

All the above parts except the processor came from TigerDirect. They offer limited telephone tech support but I didn’t need it. Everything was shipped without damage although their shipping box had TigerDirect logos all over it which could be a concern if the box sat on a front porch after delivery. The box just says steal me!

I started with an Asus motherboard but I returned it. The SATA drive controller didn’t work very well. Not sure what the problem was. The online reviews for the card were not that great but I wanted the e-SATA connector. I’ll pay a little more attention to those online reviews next time I purchase a mobo.

I bought the original mobo and processor from NewEgg. They offer no telephone tech support but I was able to return the mobo online without a problem.

I ended up purchasing a Giga-Byte GA-MA770-S3 mobo from my local CPU store for $100. It works good.

I also purchased my case from the local CPU store: Raidmax SMILODON (Black) ATX-612WBP 500W Gaming Case for $119.99

It’s a nice case although the online reviews reported some problems with the power supply. I’ve had no problems with the case or power supply in the five months I’ve owned it. The case has two side fans, one blows across the video card and one above that blows out of the case. There is a fan in the front blowing in and a fan in the back blowing out. The exhaust fans never blow hot air. It’s a "cool" case. 😉

Did I leave anything out? I use an older 22" widescreen LG LCD monitor. CS3 doesn’t like the monitor profile so I don’t use it and I couldn’t find a new profile on the LG page but the monitor looks great. It’s hooked up with a DVI cable.

I use a logitech mouse: Logitech LX3 Optical Mouse Slate. It cost $20 from TigerDirect.

I use a Micro innovations keyboard that I got online from Wal-Mart. It cost $10. I like it because it has a scroll on the keyboard and other buttons to open programs, etc. I have bought a few more of the same keyboard and found that not two the buttens (Print and Save)don’t work but I can live with that. Ctrl P and Ctrl S.

I use an Epson Stylus Photo R280 printer that makes a beautiful photograph using Epson photo paper and I use an Epson Perfection V200 Photo flatbed scanner. I don’t scan much but it works good when I need to scan something. The printer cost $100 at Circuit City and the scanner was $84 with free shipping from NewEgg. The printer uses 6 individual cartridges. The six cartridges cost more than the printer but I don’t print many photographs.

I did a clean install of Windows XP home edition with service pack 2 and then used a CD created from a Microsoft .iso file for SP 3.

CS3 is faster on this box than it was on my older XP box with only 2 GB of RAM, a single core processor and one hdd. I’ve not done a side by side comparison.

I’m a retired advertising photographer that only uses CS3 for my digital photography hobby. Last time I worked as a photographer was in 1990. I used a wet darkroom and large and small format cameras that used film.


JD..
R
rdoc2
Jan 10, 2009
On Jan 10, 11:20 am, JD wrote:
RDOC wrote:
On Jan 9, 10:12 pm, JD wrote:
RDOC wrote:
On Jan 7, 10:55 pm, JD wrote:
Father Kodak wrote:
How would you answer these questions:
In general, which video card maker, AMD/ATI or nVidia, has "better" performance for CS 3 or 4? "Better" is a combination of stability and performance?
If you were buying or building a new system today and Photoshop usage was a key factor, what would you look for in a video card? How much memory, what speed GPU, etc.
Thanks
Father Kodak
The more important question is what operating system? I built a new system with an eye to using CS3 on Windows XP. Is that the OS you would be using? There are certain RAM limitations in a 32 bit OS that may limit your Video Card RAM. If you’re interested I can elaborate on the system I built. Are you building a new system or upgrading an old system? —
JD..
Yes I would like to know more about the system you built since I am about to build a new system and I am using CS4. Thanks
The system I built was for the 32 bit Windows XP home edition, I’m using CS3. Are you still interested in the details? Most the parts were purchased online.


JD..

Please if you it would be a great help to me. Thanks

For anybody else reading this, I’m not trying to get into a pi$$ing match over the details. RDOC ask for the details regarding the box I built.
From my research, a 32-bit OS can only address 4 GB of RAM so as one adds a video card and other hardware that takes some of that address space, the OS won’t be able to address all 4 GB of RAM.

That said, I bought 4 GB of dual layer RAM because RAM is so cheap and I was told the dual layer RAM needs to be installed in matching pairs. I paid $100 for four sticks of RAM: Kingston 2048MB PC5400 DDR2 667MHz (2x1024MB). On the hardware tab of System Properties, it reports 3.25 GB of RAM so that unused .75 GB of RAM cost me about $19.

I’ve used AMD chips for 10 years. I paid $113 for my processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ Windsor 3.0GHz Socket AM2 125W Dual-Core Processor Model ADX6000CZBOX – Retail. I was told Intel chips are better?
I’ve used Western Digital hard drives for 16 years. To put the PS scratch disk on a separate hdd I purchased two drives: WD Caviar 320GB SATA-3G HD 7200/16MB/SATA-3G. They cost $60 each. I bought these for the 16 MB buffer. Older drives are only 8 MB buffer.

I was told CS3 didn’t need a bad-boy video card so I paid $100 for my 256 MB video card: Visiontek Radeon HD 2600 Pro 256MB PCIe. Some people said I should go with 500 MB on the video card but that would take away some of my memory address for the system RAM. Right or wrong on that never-ending system memory address discussion, the 256 MB card was purchased.

The video card came with the ATI Catalyst software which I use to create different monitor profiles. The default setting on my monitor is way too bright for me. I have profiles for PS, normal viewing and the default brightness which I don’t ever use. The software let me setup keyboard shortcuts for each profile. I don’t use any color calibration software although I’ve looked at the ColorVision DataColor Spyder2express Color Calibration System and may try that later.

I bought two DVDrw drives, one without included software and one with Nero 7 Essentials included and Lightscribe (which I’ll never use): Lite-On DVDRW 20X SATA OEM. One drive was $25, the other was $30.
I did a custom install of the Nero 7 and it works OK for making and copying CDs and DVDs.

All the above parts except the processor came from TigerDirect. They offer limited telephone tech support but I didn’t need it. Everything was shipped without damage although their shipping box had TigerDirect logos all over it which could be a concern if the box sat on a front porch after delivery. The box just says steal me!

I started with an Asus motherboard but I returned it. The SATA drive controller didn’t work very well. Not sure what the problem was. The online reviews for the card were not that great but I wanted the e-SATA connector. I’ll pay a little more attention to those online reviews next time I purchase a mobo.

I bought the original mobo and processor from NewEgg. They offer no telephone tech support but I was able to return the mobo online without a problem.

I ended up purchasing a Giga-Byte GA-MA770-S3 mobo from my local CPU store for $100. It works good.

I also purchased my case from the local CPU store: Raidmax SMILODON (Black) ATX-612WBP 500W Gaming Case for $119.99

It’s a nice case although the online reviews reported some problems with the power supply. I’ve had no problems with the case or power supply in the five months I’ve owned it. The case has two side fans, one blows across the video card and one above that blows out of the case. There is a fan in the front blowing in and a fan in the back blowing out. The exhaust fans never blow hot air. It’s a "cool" case. 😉
Did I leave anything out? I use an older 22" widescreen LG LCD monitor. CS3 doesn’t like the monitor profile so I don’t use it and I couldn’t find a new profile on the LG page but the monitor looks great. It’s hooked up with a DVI cable.

I use a logitech mouse: Logitech LX3 Optical Mouse Slate. It cost $20 from TigerDirect.

I use a Micro innovations keyboard that I got online from Wal-Mart. It cost $10. I like it because it has a scroll on the keyboard and other buttons to open programs, etc. I have bought a few more of the same keyboard and found that not two the buttens (Print and Save)don’t work but I can live with that. Ctrl P and Ctrl S.

I use an Epson Stylus Photo R280 printer that makes a beautiful photograph using Epson photo paper and I use an Epson Perfection V200 Photo flatbed scanner. I don’t scan much but it works good when I need to scan something. The printer cost $100 at Circuit City and the scanner was $84 with free shipping from NewEgg. The printer uses 6 individual cartridges. The six cartridges cost more than the printer but I don’t print many photographs.

I did a clean install of Windows XP home edition with service pack 2 and then used a CD created from a Microsoft .iso file for SP 3.
CS3 is faster on this box than it was on my older XP box with only 2 GB of RAM, a single core processor and one hdd. I’ve not done a side by side comparison.

I’m a retired advertising photographer that only uses CS3 for my digital photography hobby. Last time I worked as a photographer was in 1990. I used a wet darkroom and large and small format cameras that used film.

JD..

JD I thank you for an excellent and prompt reply to my question and it will be a big help. I would say you did a very nice job and came up with a very good workable system. Thanks again.
J
JD
Jan 10, 2009
RDOC wrote:
On Jan 10, 11:20 am, JD wrote:
RDOC wrote:
On Jan 9, 10:12 pm, JD wrote:
RDOC wrote:
On Jan 7, 10:55 pm, JD wrote:
Father Kodak wrote:
How would you answer these questions:
In general, which video card maker, AMD/ATI or nVidia, has "better" performance for CS 3 or 4? "Better" is a combination of stability and performance?
If you were buying or building a new system today and Photoshop usage was a key factor, what would you look for in a video card? How much memory, what speed GPU, etc.
Thanks
Father Kodak
The more important question is what operating system? I built a new system with an eye to using CS3 on Windows XP. Is that the OS you would be using? There are certain RAM limitations in a 32 bit OS that may limit your Video Card RAM. If you’re interested I can elaborate on the system I built. Are you building a new system or upgrading an old system? —
JD..
Yes I would like to know more about the system you built since I am about to build a new system and I am using CS4. Thanks
The system I built was for the 32 bit Windows XP home edition, I’m using CS3. Are you still interested in the details? Most the parts were purchased online.

JD..
Please if you it would be a great help to me. Thanks
For anybody else reading this, I’m not trying to get into a pi$$ing match over the details. RDOC ask for the details regarding the box I built.
From my research, a 32-bit OS can only address 4 GB of RAM so as one adds a video card and other hardware that takes some of that address space, the OS won’t be able to address all 4 GB of RAM.

That said, I bought 4 GB of dual layer RAM because RAM is so cheap and I was told the dual layer RAM needs to be installed in matching pairs. I paid $100 for four sticks of RAM: Kingston 2048MB PC5400 DDR2 667MHz (2x1024MB). On the hardware tab of System Properties, it reports 3.25 GB of RAM so that unused .75 GB of RAM cost me about $19.

I’ve used AMD chips for 10 years. I paid $113 for my processor: AMD Athlon 64 X2 6000+ Windsor 3.0GHz Socket AM2 125W Dual-Core Processor Model ADX6000CZBOX – Retail. I was told Intel chips are better?
I’ve used Western Digital hard drives for 16 years. To put the PS scratch disk on a separate hdd I purchased two drives: WD Caviar 320GB SATA-3G HD 7200/16MB/SATA-3G. They cost $60 each. I bought these for the 16 MB buffer. Older drives are only 8 MB buffer.

I was told CS3 didn’t need a bad-boy video card so I paid $100 for my 256 MB video card: Visiontek Radeon HD 2600 Pro 256MB PCIe. Some people said I should go with 500 MB on the video card but that would take away some of my memory address for the system RAM. Right or wrong on that never-ending system memory address discussion, the 256 MB card was purchased.

The video card came with the ATI Catalyst software which I use to create different monitor profiles. The default setting on my monitor is way too bright for me. I have profiles for PS, normal viewing and the default brightness which I don’t ever use. The software let me setup keyboard shortcuts for each profile. I don’t use any color calibration software although I’ve looked at the ColorVision DataColor Spyder2express Color Calibration System and may try that later.

I bought two DVDrw drives, one without included software and one with Nero 7 Essentials included and Lightscribe (which I’ll never use): Lite-On DVDRW 20X SATA OEM. One drive was $25, the other was $30.
I did a custom install of the Nero 7 and it works OK for making and copying CDs and DVDs.

All the above parts except the processor came from TigerDirect. They offer limited telephone tech support but I didn’t need it. Everything was shipped without damage although their shipping box had TigerDirect logos all over it which could be a concern if the box sat on a front porch after delivery. The box just says steal me!

I started with an Asus motherboard but I returned it. The SATA drive controller didn’t work very well. Not sure what the problem was. The online reviews for the card were not that great but I wanted the e-SATA connector. I’ll pay a little more attention to those online reviews next time I purchase a mobo.

I bought the original mobo and processor from NewEgg. They offer no telephone tech support but I was able to return the mobo online without a problem.

I ended up purchasing a Giga-Byte GA-MA770-S3 mobo from my local CPU store for $100. It works good.

I also purchased my case from the local CPU store: Raidmax SMILODON (Black) ATX-612WBP 500W Gaming Case for $119.99

It’s a nice case although the online reviews reported some problems with the power supply. I’ve had no problems with the case or power supply in the five months I’ve owned it. The case has two side fans, one blows across the video card and one above that blows out of the case. There is a fan in the front blowing in and a fan in the back blowing out. The exhaust fans never blow hot air. It’s a "cool" case. 😉
Did I leave anything out? I use an older 22" widescreen LG LCD monitor. CS3 doesn’t like the monitor profile so I don’t use it and I couldn’t find a new profile on the LG page but the monitor looks great. It’s hooked up with a DVI cable.

I use a logitech mouse: Logitech LX3 Optical Mouse Slate. It cost $20 from TigerDirect.

I use a Micro innovations keyboard that I got online from Wal-Mart. It cost $10. I like it because it has a scroll on the keyboard and other buttons to open programs, etc. I have bought a few more of the same keyboard and found that not two the buttens (Print and Save)don’t work but I can live with that. Ctrl P and Ctrl S.

I use an Epson Stylus Photo R280 printer that makes a beautiful photograph using Epson photo paper and I use an Epson Perfection V200 Photo flatbed scanner. I don’t scan much but it works good when I need to scan something. The printer cost $100 at Circuit City and the scanner was $84 with free shipping from NewEgg. The printer uses 6 individual cartridges. The six cartridges cost more than the printer but I don’t print many photographs.

I did a clean install of Windows XP home edition with service pack 2 and then used a CD created from a Microsoft .iso file for SP 3.
CS3 is faster on this box than it was on my older XP box with only 2 GB of RAM, a single core processor and one hdd. I’ve not done a side by side comparison.

I’m a retired advertising photographer that only uses CS3 for my digital photography hobby. Last time I worked as a photographer was in 1990. I used a wet darkroom and large and small format cameras that used film.

JD..

JD I thank you for an excellent and prompt reply to my question and it will be a big help. I would say you did a very nice job and came up with a very good workable system. Thanks again.

You’re welcome. So far the new system has worked good.


JD..
FK
Father Kodak
Jan 13, 2009
On Wed, 07 Jan 2009 21:55:30 -0600, JD wrote:

Father Kodak wrote:
How would you answer these questions:

In general, which video card maker, AMD/ATI or nVidia, has "better" performance for CS 3 or 4? "Better" is a combination of stability and performance?

If you were buying or building a new system today and Photoshop usage was a key factor, what would you look for in a video card? How much memory, what speed GPU, etc.

Thanks

Father Kodak

The more important question is what operating system? I built a new

Sorry for the late reply.

I’m starting to do my planning for my next system.

My next system will be 64-bit because that is clearly the future of desktop computing and my systems have to last me 3-4 years minimum, before I replace them. My current system runs Win XP but it’s quite clear from the lack of driver support that Windows XP 64 bit is NOT the way to go. So then I have to decide which of the many flavors of Vista-64 (separate issue …)

system with an eye to using CS3 on Windows XP. Is that the OS you would be using? There are certain RAM limitations in a 32 bit OS that may

understood. Also the overall 4 GB limit of 32-bit systems.

limit your Video Card RAM. If you’re interested I can elaborate on the system I built. Are you building a new system or upgrading an old system?

Father Kodak
K
keepout
Jan 13, 2009
On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:58:37 -0800, Father Kodak
wrote:

I’m starting to do my planning for my next system.

My next system will be 64-bit because that is clearly the future of desktop computing and my systems have to last me 3-4 years minimum, before I replace them. My current system runs Win XP but it’s quite clear from the lack of driver support that Windows XP 64 bit is NOT the way to go. So then I have to decide which of the many flavors of Vista-64 (separate issue …)

Here’s some free experience.

I added a Cintiq tablet. This required a dual monitor display. The HP a1723w comes with an onboard video card, but plenty of slots for other extras. Also required a NEW video card that could handle dual displays. What I actually settled on was a Nvidia 8500 GT w/1 gig ram. took my WEI from 2 all the way to 4.7, and it stuck at 4.7 because of the CPU limiting it there vs anything else.

for now the WEI max is 5.9. Take a look at the ‘what is your WEI’ website to see what sort of maxed out machines exist.

This card was becoming obsolete, but it was the ONLY board that met all the needs.. specifically: Dual monitor, PCI Express x16 [PCI express 2 now exists], Maximum Resolution: 2560 x 1600 (Digital) Video Memory: 1GB GDDR2
[ddr2 memory is not top of the line. there was/is better],

Connector(s): VGA (15-Pin D-Sub) required DVI (Dual Link) WANTED best type display

HDTV/S-Video nice to have

What no HDMI ? Again I was limited to the exact board I could install by the motherboard, and OS.
It was a 1 year old a1723w. A dinosaur in computer times. So I had to actually shop for a dinosaur video card.
This machine couldn’t take the newest Nvidia 9000 or better cards. They REQUIRED much stronger CPU’s and motherboards.
Size of board in inches is probably the #1 consideration.. Will it fit ? I had to replace the 100 watt Power supply with the 600 watt I had for the XP. Heat.. you wouldn’t believe the cottage industry in heat sinks for every card made, I have 7 fans in my case. And the www.epinions.com gripes about every card you consider. Noise another consideration, this one is supposedly noisy. I haven’t heard a peep from it.

Though I did ‘reconsider’ ATI, I spent 7 years as an ATI involuntary Beta tester. And them selling out ATI is just admitting what those using the ATI cards knew all along, ATI software was garbage.

IOW: Plan ahead. Gaming, video etc.. truth is you’ll want the fastest, cheapest, best card you can USE.
New thing with PS4, it uses the video cards GPU. I tested the GPU the other day on a 29,000 pixel x 37,500 image. Something like that you’d expect action from time to start to time to finish in the minutes or hours. with the new GPU usage, it was instantaneous..

This was a 2.8 gig image. It did take 15 minutes to save. But in memory with that 1 gig video ram on the card couple things to try if you think you can create an image that size.

hold the H key then mouse around the image to zoom in and out in different sections. it’s called the birds eye effect. zoom out find another part of the image, release the mouse and zoom in. All instantly.

Then try the R key and twirl the image. Again instantaneous with the new GPU thing in PS4.

add up all your needs.

1st consideration is OS MAC or Windows ? My prefs for graphics only would be MAC. For General purpose M$. Actually M$ is a monopoly sad to say. IOW, there’s really no choice in the matter. That could be a plus. All hardware and software is also designed to run on M$.
But PS does run on Mac, and very well.

2 speed = horsepower. If you’re going to do graphics, that’s a given. I’m with
2.8 ghz. dual D CPU’s. Wish I still had my 3.2 ghz XP machine.

3 Dual CPU or better.. Quad CPU’s is actually now. FWIW: They’re starting to listen to what Amiga taught them 20 years ago.

and finally make sure everything you want to use is compatible with everything else. ie: do I want a muscle video card ? or a muscle motherboard ? Can either or both work on the OS ?

I have found, that getting what you want with a machine is not as easy as getting what you need.
Not everything will work with everything else. which is why I settled on a video card going into obsolescence rather than WAIT for the hardware gurus to come out with something better for my 1 year old machine.

This shopping for the right card took way longer than I wanted it to [about 2 weeks], 3 choices I made were obsolete at online stores when I made my decision.

As for ATI, my personal opinion, you won’t get paid in anything but frustration keeping up with the monthly upgrades that are always worse than the upgrades from last month.

Though I haven’t had any upgrades for this card, I’m not griping. It works fine as is.
It did have 1 upgrade the day I installed it.
Look for separate monitor adjustment vs cloning, and none. The original setting was crap with clone. it took my 1280 x 1024 monitor screen and crapped it down to 800 x 600 16×9 display [the Cintiq’s display size] with the clone and none adjustment. This also cropped stuff on the main monitor. heads chopped off at the eyebrows, full length chopped at the knees.

Wacom told me don’t NEED the top of the line card, but you also don’t want the bottom of the barrel. mid range should have been the selection. At one time
[when this a1723w came out] the 8500GT WAS top of the line, but it was bottom
of the barrel when I needed a card. 1 year later.

and here’s something that’ll really roast your chestnuts. 64 bit vs 32 bit. It’s like the difference in M$ and Mac..
64 bit drivers don’t exist in the abundance 32 bit drivers exist.. IOW: That’s just one more thing you need to take into consideration. That will put a real throttle on choices for other hardware AND software.
re: 3 cards were obsolete when I went to buy them because they had all the specs I could use.
64 bit will put a lot of stuff out of bounds.

My XP machine was maybe 6 months ahead of the software curve. It actually took about a year to get things for that machine. The question is WILL they finally get around to making 64 bit drivers for EVERY 32 bit driver out there ? You’re looking at a huge cost, in that EVERYTHING will HAVE to be bought centered around 64 bit. Lots of hardware and software will become obsolete. 64 bit will definitely cost more than 32 bit stuff UNTIL the majority of the M$ sheep switch to 64 bit.. What is windows 7 ? 32 or 64 ? which do you want to bet your future on, windows 7 32 bit or 64 bit ? Adobe has thrown up their hands with M$.

Now add up all those decisions for EVERY piece of hardware and you see the problem. It’s not a simple question, OR a simple answer. Is money a factor ? You’ll probably spend $10,000 on everything. Make a list and sort it by hand in priorities as to what your WANTS are, then see how close you can find hardware AND software that will meet those wants.
R
rdoc2
Jan 13, 2009
On Jan 13, 11:53 am, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:58:37 -0800, Father Kodak
wrote:

I’m starting to do my planning for my next system.

My next system will be 64-bit because that is clearly the future of desktop computing and my systems have to last me 3-4 years minimum, before I replace them. My current system runs Win XP but it’s quite clear from the lack of driver support that Windows XP 64 bit is NOT the way to go. So then I have to decide which of the many flavors of Vista-64 (separate issue …)

Here’s some free experience.

I added a Cintiq tablet. This required a dual monitor display. The HP a1723w comes with an onboard video card, but plenty of slots for other extras. Also required a NEW video card that could handle dual displays. What I actually settled on was a Nvidia 8500 GT w/1 gig ram. took my WEI from 2 all the way to 4.7, and it stuck at 4.7 because of the CPU limiting it there vs anything else.

for now the WEI max is 5.9. Take a look at the ‘what is your WEI’ website to see what sort of maxed out machines exist.

This card was becoming obsolete, but it was the ONLY board that met all the needs.. specifically: Dual monitor, PCI Express x16 [PCI express 2 now exists], Maximum Resolution: 2560 x 1600 (Digital) Video Memory: 1GB GDDR2
[ddr2 memory is not top of the line. there was/is better],

Connector(s): VGA (15-Pin D-Sub) required DVI (Dual Link) WANTED best type display

HDTV/S-Video nice to have

What no HDMI ? Again I was limited to the exact board I could install by the motherboard, and OS.
It was a 1 year old a1723w. A dinosaur in computer times. So I had to actually shop for a dinosaur video card.
This machine couldn’t take the newest Nvidia 9000 or better cards. They REQUIRED much stronger CPU’s and motherboards.
Size of board in inches is probably the #1 consideration.. Will it fit ? I had to replace the 100 watt Power supply with the 600 watt I had for the XP. Heat.. you wouldn’t believe the cottage industry in heat sinks for every card made, I have 7 fans in my case. And thewww.epinions.comgripes about every card you consider. Noise another consideration, this one is supposedly noisy. I haven’t heard a peep from it.

Though I did ‘reconsider’ ATI, I spent 7 years as an ATI involuntary Beta tester. And them selling out ATI is just admitting what those using the ATI cards knew all along, ATI software was garbage.

IOW: Plan ahead. Gaming, video etc.. truth is you’ll want the fastest, cheapest, best card you can USE.
New thing with PS4, it uses the video cards GPU. I tested the GPU the other day on a 29,000 pixel x 37,500 image. Something like that you’d expect action from time to start to time to finish in the minutes or hours. with the new GPU usage, it was instantaneous..

This was a 2.8 gig image. It did take 15 minutes to save. But in memory with that 1 gig video ram on the card couple things to try if you think you can create an image that size.

hold the H key then mouse around the image to zoom in and out in different sections. it’s called the birds eye effect. zoom out find another part of the image, release the mouse and zoom in. All instantly.

Then try the R key and twirl the image. Again instantaneous with the new GPU thing in PS4.

add up all your needs.

1st consideration is OS MAC or Windows ? My prefs for graphics only would be MAC. For General purpose M$. Actually M$ is a monopoly sad to say. IOW, there’s really no choice in the matter. That could be a plus. All hardware and software is also designed to run on M$.
But PS does run on Mac, and very well.

2 speed = horsepower. If you’re going to do graphics, that’s a given. I’m with
2.8 ghz. dual D CPU’s. Wish I still had my 3.2 ghz XP machine.

3 Dual CPU or better.. Quad CPU’s is actually now. FWIW: They’re starting to listen to what Amiga taught them 20 years ago.

and finally make sure everything you want to use is compatible with everything else. ie: do I want a muscle video card ? or a muscle motherboard ? Can either or both work on the OS ?

I have found, that getting what you want with a machine is not as easy as getting what you need.
Not everything will work with everything else. which is why I settled on a video card going into obsolescence rather than WAIT for the hardware gurus to come out with something better for my 1 year old machine.
This shopping for the right card took way longer than I wanted it to [about 2 weeks], 3 choices I made were obsolete at online stores when I made my decision.

As for ATI, my personal opinion, you won’t get paid in anything but frustration keeping up with the monthly upgrades that are always worse than the upgrades from last month.

Though I haven’t had any upgrades for this card, I’m not griping. It works fine as is.
It did have 1 upgrade the day I installed it.
Look for separate monitor adjustment vs cloning, and none. The original setting was crap with clone. it took my 1280 x 1024 monitor screen and crapped it down to 800 x 600 16×9 display [the Cintiq’s display size] with the clone and none adjustment. This also cropped stuff on the main monitor. heads chopped off at the eyebrows, full length chopped at the knees.

Wacom told me don’t NEED the top of the line card, but you also don’t want the bottom of the barrel. mid range should have been the selection. At one time
[when this a1723w came out] the 8500GT WAS top of the line, but it was bottom
of the barrel when I needed a card. 1 year later.

and here’s something that’ll really roast your chestnuts. 64 bit vs 32 bit. It’s like the difference in M$ and Mac..
64 bit drivers don’t exist in the abundance 32 bit drivers exist.. IOW: That’s just one more thing you need to take into consideration. That will put a real throttle on choices for other hardware AND software.
re: 3 cards were obsolete when I went to buy them because they had all the specs I could use.
64 bit will put a lot of stuff out of bounds.

My XP machine was maybe 6 months ahead of the software curve. It actually took about a year to get things for that machine. The question is WILL they finally get around to making 64 bit drivers for EVERY 32 bit driver out there ? You’re looking at a huge cost, in that EVERYTHING will HAVE to be bought centered around 64 bit. Lots of hardware and software will become obsolete. 64 bit will definitely cost more than 32 bit stuff UNTIL the majority of the M$ sheep switch to 64 bit.. What is windows 7 ? 32 or 64 ? which do you want to bet your future on, windows 7 32 bit or 64 bit ? Adobe has thrown up their hands with M$.

Now add up all those decisions for EVERY piece of hardware and you see the problem. It’s not a simple question, OR a simple answer. Is money a factor ? You’ll probably spend $10,000 on everything. Make a list and sort it by hand in priorities as to what your WANTS are, then see how close you can find hardware AND software that will meet those wants.

Now I am more confused than I was before your answer. Ok let me say this, I want to build a system for $1500 to $2000 and I want to be able to use my old software and peripherals with no monster problems. Right now I am using 32 bit Windows XP which I could start the new system on and than switch over to Windows 7 on the new system after it finally comes out since I hear that those trying it aren’t having driver problems. Maybe you could suggest a motherboard and cpu and a video card that I could use that would fit what I am looking for. Also any other specific suggestions would be greatly appreciated since I am lost at this point. I want the system to be good for Photoshop, multitasking and spreadsheet work. Thanks and your help is appreciated.
FK
Father Kodak
Jan 13, 2009
On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:53:36 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:58:37 -0800, Father Kodak
wrote:

Here’s some free experience.

I added a Cintiq tablet.

Good point.

This required a dual monitor display. The HP a1723w
comes with an onboard video card, but plenty of slots for other extras. Also required a NEW video card that could handle dual displays.

for now the WEI max is 5.9. Take a look at the ‘what is your WEI’ website to see what sort of maxed out machines exist.

Can you post the specific URL. There are tons of websites that come up in a Google search.

It was a 1 year old a1723w. A dinosaur in computer times. So I had to actually shop for a dinosaur video card.

Actually, if you try hard enough, you can buy video cards that were released 2-3 or more years ago. I needed one such card recently for an old system and found several choices on newegg, which is my go-to store for computer gear.

Size of board in inches is probably the #1 consideration.. Will it fit ?

Argues for a big case.

I had to replace the 100 watt Power supply with the 600 watt I had for the XP. Heat.. you wouldn’t believe the cottage industry in heat sinks for every card

Actually I can. But it’s still amazing/dismaying.

Though I did ‘reconsider’ ATI, I spent 7 years as an ATI involuntary Beta tester. And them selling out ATI is just admitting what those using the ATI cards knew all along, ATI software was garbage.

Amen, brother. I once spent years struggling with a system that was unstable because of a supposedly high-end Matrox card. Pfui!

New thing with PS4, it uses the video cards GPU. I tested the GPU the other day on a 29,000 pixel x 37,500 image. Something like that you’d expect action from time to start to time to finish in the minutes or hours. with the new GPU usage, it was instantaneous..

That is a great argument for getting a good video card, despite some people’s claims that CS 4 is rough around the edges. If it is, I wouldn’t be surprised. Anything this major, with all the different apps being released simultaneously, is bound to have some issues.

This was a 2.8 gig image. It did take 15 minutes to save. But in memory with that 1 gig video ram on the card couple things to try if you think you can create an image that size.

So if the video memory is available, CS 4 will take advantage of that?

Does it make sense to run two video cards in SLI for Photoshop? I’m not a gamer.


add up all your needs.

1st consideration is OS MAC or Windows ? My prefs for graphics only would be MAC. For General purpose M$. Actually M$ is a monopoly sad to say. IOW, there’s really no choice in the matter. That could be a plus. All hardware and software is also designed to run on M$.

I have this love/hate thing with MS. Love because an entire computing ecosystem is built around windows and it mostly/sort of work. Hate, because Windows is such a poor excuse for an OS. And I’m not ready to buy the Linux on the desktop arguments. Not until Outlook runs on Linux.

3 Dual CPU or better.. Quad CPU’s is actually now. FWIW: They’re starting to listen to what Amiga taught them 20 years ago.

True enough. In two-three years, we’ll be hearing about 8 and 16 core CPUs. All that depends on MS and others "cracking the nut" about multi-threading. In that aspect, Solaris scales far better than any other OS, Linux included. But who would use Solaris on any desktop system in 2009?

and finally make sure everything you want to use is compatible with everything

Yeah. That’s why I want to seek out real-live examples of successfully built systems, including all the hardware, the major software, etc.

else. ie: do I want a muscle video card ? or a muscle motherboard ? Can either or both work on the OS ?

If you buy components that are Vista-ready, and you check in advance for driver support, you probably won’t be disappointed. Just don’t expect that you could run Windows XP or Linux on that system.
I have found, that getting what you want with a machine is not as easy as getting what you need.
Not everything will work with everything else. which is why I settled on a video card going into obsolescence rather than WAIT for the hardware gurus to come out with something better for my 1 year old machine.

Again, amen brother.

This shopping for the right card took way longer than I wanted it to [about 2 weeks], 3 choices I made were obsolete at online stores when I made my decision.

As for ATI, my personal opinion, you won’t get paid in anything but frustration keeping up with the monthly upgrades that are always worse than the upgrades from last month.

I get all the frustration I need from other vendors. # 1 on my list: Intuit with Quicken. They would have to do a major, major improvement just to get their support up to "it sucks badly" level.

Though I haven’t had any upgrades for this card, I’m not griping. It works fine as is.

Wacom told me don’t NEED the top of the line card, but you also don’t want the bottom of the barrel. mid range should have been the selection. At one time
[when this a1723w came out] the 8500GT WAS top of the line, but it was bottom
of the barrel when I needed a card. 1 year later.
I guess is also comes down to price, at some point.

and here’s something that’ll really roast your chestnuts. 64 bit vs 32 bit. It’s like the difference in M$ and Mac..
64 bit drivers don’t exist in the abundance 32 bit drivers exist.. IOW: That’s just one more thing you need to take into consideration. That will put a real throttle on choices for other hardware AND software.
re: 3 cards were obsolete when I went to buy them because they had all the specs I could use.
64 bit will put a lot of stuff out of bounds.

Agree. See my comments above, which I wrote even before reading this paragraph.

My XP machine was maybe 6 months ahead of the software curve. It actually took about a year to get things for that machine. The question is WILL they finally get around to making 64 bit drivers for EVERY 32 bit driver out there ?

Never. Ever time there is a major OS upgrade, there is an accompanying die-off of peripherals. Printers, scanners, video cards, etc. Most manufacturers (ASUS being one notable exception) do not do BIOS and driver upgrades for products that are several years old. Or maybe the vendor is no longer in that business, or completely out of business.

You’re looking at a huge cost, in that EVERYTHING will HAVE to be bought centered around 64 bit. Lots of hardware and software will become obsolete. 64 bit will definitely cost more than 32 bit stuff UNTIL the majority of the M$ sheep switch to 64 bit.. What is windows 7 ? 32 or 64 ? which do you want to bet your future on, windows 7 32 bit or 64 bit ? Adobe has thrown up their hands with M$.

I will be surprised if MS even markets a 32-bit version of Windows 7, even though they have a 32-bit version available for beta download. By 2011, PC manufacturers will be building only 64-bit systems, and will want to load them up with more than 4 GB so that they can run the latest software with reasonable performance. Not many people have been upgrading their existing systems from XP to Vista, and by 2011, people may simply buy new systems rather than upgrade 5 years old PCs.
Now add up all those decisions for EVERY piece of hardware and you see the problem. It’s not a simple question, OR a simple answer. Is money a factor ? You’ll probably spend $10,000 on everything.

I don’t know how you get to $10K, unless you’re spending thousands on just the monitor(s).

Make a list and sort it by hand in priorities as to what your WANTS are, then see how close you can find hardware AND software that will meet those wants.

Or, wait six months and prices will come down.

Father Kodak
R
rdoc2
Jan 14, 2009
On Jan 13, 6:53 pm, Father Kodak wrote:
On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:53:36 -0500, wrote:
On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:58:37 -0800, Father Kodak
wrote:
Here’s some free experience.

I added a Cintiq tablet.

Good point.

This required a dual monitor display. The HP a1723w
comes with an onboard video card, but plenty of slots for other extras. Also required a NEW video card that could handle dual displays. for now the WEI max is 5.9. Take a look at the ‘what is your WEI’ website to see what sort of maxed out machines exist.

Can you post the specific URL. There are tons of websites that come up in a Google search.

It was a 1 year old a1723w. A dinosaur in computer times. So I had to actually shop for a dinosaur video card.

Actually, if you try hard enough, you can buy video cards that were released 2-3 or more years ago. I needed one such card recently for an old system and found several choices on newegg, which is my go-to store for computer gear.

Size of board in inches is probably the #1 consideration.. Will it fit ?

Argues for a big case.

I had to replace the 100 watt Power supply with the 600 watt I had for the XP. Heat.. you wouldn’t believe the cottage industry in heat sinks for every card

Actually I can. But it’s still amazing/dismaying.

Though I did ‘reconsider’ ATI, I spent 7 years as an ATI involuntary Beta tester. And them selling out ATI is just admitting what those using the ATI cards knew all along, ATI software was garbage.

Amen, brother. I once spent years struggling with a system that was unstable because of a supposedly high-end Matrox card. Pfui!
New thing with PS4, it uses the video cards GPU. I tested the GPU the other day on a 29,000 pixel x 37,500 image. Something like that you’d expect action from time to start to time to finish in the minutes or hours. with the new GPU usage, it was instantaneous..

That is a great argument for getting a good video card, despite some people’s claims that CS 4 is rough around the edges. If it is, I wouldn’t be surprised. Anything this major, with all the different apps being released simultaneously, is bound to have some issues.

This was a 2.8 gig image. It did take 15 minutes to save. But in memory with that 1 gig video ram on the card couple things to try if you think you can create an image that size.

So if the video memory is available, CS 4 will take advantage of that?
Does it make sense to run two video cards in SLI for Photoshop? I’m not a gamer.

add up all your needs.

1st consideration is OS MAC or Windows ? My prefs for graphics only would be MAC. For General purpose M$. Actually M$ is a monopoly sad to say. IOW, there’s really no choice in the matter. That could be a plus. All hardware and software is also designed to run on M$.

I have this love/hate thing with MS. Love because an entire computing ecosystem is built around windows and it mostly/sort of work. Hate, because Windows is such a poor excuse for an OS. And I’m not ready to buy the Linux on the desktop arguments. Not until Outlook runs on Linux.

3 Dual CPU or better.. Quad CPU’s is actually now. FWIW: They’re starting to listen to what Amiga taught them 20 years ago.

True enough. In two-three years, we’ll be hearing about 8 and 16 core CPUs. All that depends on MS and others "cracking the nut" about multi-threading. In that aspect, Solaris scales far better than any other OS, Linux included. But who would use Solaris on any desktop system in 2009?

and finally make sure everything you want to use is compatible with everything

Yeah. That’s why I want to seek out real-live examples of successfully built systems, including all the hardware, the major software, etc.

else. ie: do I want a muscle video card ? or a muscle motherboard ? Can either or both work on the OS ?

If you buy components that are Vista-ready, and you check in advance for driver support, you probably won’t be disappointed. Just don’t expect that you could run Windows XP or Linux on that system.

I have found, that getting what you want with a machine is not as easy as getting what you need.
Not everything will work with everything else. which is why I settled on a video card going into obsolescence rather than WAIT for the hardware gurus to come out with something better for my 1 year old machine.

Again, amen brother.

This shopping for the right card took way longer than I wanted it to [about 2 weeks], 3 choices I made were obsolete at online stores when I made my decision.

As for ATI, my personal opinion, you won’t get paid in anything but frustration keeping up with the monthly upgrades that are always worse than the upgrades from last month.

I get all the frustration I need from other vendors. # 1 on my list: Intuit with Quicken. They would have to do a major, major improvement just to get their support up to "it sucks badly" level.

Though I haven’t had any upgrades for this card, I’m not griping. It works fine as is.
Wacom told me don’t NEED the top of the line card, but you also don’t want the bottom of the barrel. mid range should have been the selection. At one time
[when this a1723w came out] the 8500GT WAS top of the line, but it was bottom
of the barrel when I needed a card. 1 year later.

I guess is also comes down to price, at some point.

and here’s something that’ll really roast your chestnuts. 64 bit vs 32 bit. It’s like the difference in M$ and Mac..
64 bit drivers don’t exist in the abundance 32 bit drivers exist.. IOW: That’s just one more thing you need to take into consideration. That will put a real throttle on choices for other hardware AND software.
re: 3 cards were obsolete when I went to buy them because they had all the specs I could use.
64 bit will put a lot of stuff out of bounds.

Agree. See my comments above, which I wrote even before reading this paragraph.

My XP machine was maybe 6 months ahead of the software curve. It actually took about a year to get things for that machine. The question is WILL they finally get around to making 64 bit drivers for EVERY 32 bit driver out there ?

Never. Ever time there is a major OS upgrade, there is an accompanying die-off of peripherals. Printers, scanners, video cards, etc. Most manufacturers (ASUS being one notable exception) do not do BIOS and driver upgrades for products that are several years old. Or maybe the vendor is no longer in that business, or completely out of business.

You’re looking at a huge cost, in that EVERYTHING will HAVE to be bought centered around 64 bit. Lots of hardware and software will become obsolete. 64 bit will definitely cost more than 32 bit stuff UNTIL the majority of the M$ sheep switch to 64 bit.. What is windows 7 ? 32 or 64 ? which do you want to bet your future on, windows 7 32 bit or 64 bit ? Adobe has thrown up their hands with M$.

I will be surprised if MS even markets a 32-bit version of Windows 7, even though they have a 32-bit version available for beta download. By 2011, PC manufacturers will be building only 64-bit systems, and will want to load them up with more than 4 GB so that they can run the latest software with reasonable performance. Not many people have been upgrading their existing systems from XP to Vista, and by 2011, people may simply buy new systems rather than upgrade 5 years old PCs.

Now add up all those decisions for EVERY piece of hardware and you see the problem. It’s not a simple question, OR a simple answer. Is money a factor ? You’ll probably spend $10,000 on everything.

I don’t know how you get to $10K, unless you’re spending thousands on just the monitor(s).

Make a list and sort it by hand in priorities as to what your WANTS are, then see how close you can find hardware AND software that will meet those wants.

Or, wait six months and prices will come down.

Father Kodak

Now I am more confused than I was before your answer. Ok let me say this, I want to build a system for $1500 to $2000 and I want to be able to use my old software and peripherals with no monster problems. Right now I am using 32 bit Windows XP which I could start the new system on and than switch over to Windows 7 on the new system after it finally comes out since I hear that those trying it aren’t having driver problems. Maybe you could suggest a motherboard and cpu and a video card that I could use that would fit what I am looking for. Also any other specific suggestions would be greatly appreciated since I am lost at this point. I want the system to be good for Photoshop, multitasking and spreadsheet work. Thanks and your help is appreciated.
J
Joel
Jan 14, 2009
RDOC wrote:

<snip>
Now I am more confused than I was before your answer. Ok let me say this, I want to build a system for $1500 to $2000 and I want to be able to use my old software and peripherals with no monster problems. Right now I am using 32 bit Windows XP which I could start the new system on and than switch over to Windows 7 on the new system after it finally comes out since I hear that those trying it aren’t having driver problems. Maybe you could suggest a motherboard and cpu and a video card that I could use that would fit what I am looking for. Also any other specific suggestions would be greatly appreciated since I am lost at this point. I want the system to be good for Photoshop, multitasking and spreadsheet work. Thanks and your help is appreciated.

It depends on what type of $$$$ you are talking about, if you are talking about US$ then with $1500-2000 you should be able to build several handsome systems.

And like few others have mentioned quite afew different information, and all you need to do is combine them together then you should have one heck of complete answer to not confuse yourself. I can’t go by order or detail, but general of others have mentioned.

– WinXP 32-bit has limited to 3GB memory

– 64-bit supports more than 4+GB (could be up to 8GB or even 16GB which I don’t have to confirm it).

– CS4 can benefit from 64-bit OS and Faster graphic card.

– All Photoshop can benefit from extra memory. Or Photoshop may and may not benefit from memory beyond 3GB, but I think the OS does, and if the OS can benefit from 3+GB then it should share some to Photoshop (?).

Now, if you upgrading the *whole* system then it’s a different story, or your $2000 should be enough for around 2-3 handsome systems. If you just upgrading your old then $2000 may be able to cover up to around 4-5 systems (or more?). Also, I don’t own any fancy graphic card, but I think the graphic card may be the most expensive part (unless you gonna buy a good 22-24" LCD monitor).
K
keepout
Jan 14, 2009
On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:45:08 -0800 (PST), RDOC wrote:

Now I am more confused than I was before your answer.

BTDT: mine was learning radio technology. Teacher knew I had a question, but I didn’t know enough to know what the question was.

Ok let me say
this, I want to build a system for $1500 to $2000 and I want to be able to use my old software and peripherals with no monster problems.
Other than hard drives, and DVD’s I’d say if it directly attaches to the motherboard in a slot, kiss it goodbye. The NEW motherboard will come with it’s own slots and drives. I wouldn’t worry much about software. I don’t know how well the ‘compatibility’ section works with Vista. I run OLD software all the time. The worst part of Vista is the UAC, and old software that want’s to run from C:\this_folder. Software being written now hasn’t caught up to Vista. So where’s that put win7 software ?

Right now I am using 32 bit Windows XP which I could start the new system on and than switch over to Windows 7 on the new system after it finally comes out since I hear that those trying it aren’t having driver problems.

I said 32 vs 64 drivers. The 32 bit drivers exist. The 64 bit drivers are few and far between. that’s something you’ll need to stick in your MUST haves when you consider what you want. But 64 bit drivers are going to SEVERELY limit your choices of EVERYTHING.

Maybe you could suggest a motherboard and cpu and a
video card that I could use that would fit what I am looking for. Also any other specific suggestions would be greatly appreciated since I am lost at this point. I want the system to be good for Photoshop,
Video card, as I said my dinosaur card works fantastic with PS4. You do understand how big a 29,000 x 37,500 pixel image is ? 2.8 gigs. PS4 uses the new GPU access. and manipulating this size image is instantaneous. my old XP with 2 gigs ram and 3.2 ghz dual CPUs would take minutes if not hours
[if it could even run PS4] to manipulate an image this size.

My card has 1 gig video ram vs the 512 or less normal. And that 1 gig ram makes EVERYTHING fly since most stuff uses video. That frees up the 2 gigs CPU ram for everything except video.

multitasking and spreadsheet work. Thanks and your help is appreciated.

multitasking and spreadsheet would be a software consideration. If it can use dual CPUs, and the GPU’s of newer video cards, I’d say not a problem.

my opinion for that price range is WAIT until HP, Dell, or those other ready built companies come out with the windows 7 machines. This HP of mine came out with the warning ‘DO NOT SELL B4 12/xx/2007’
That’s pretty much all you’ll get for $1500-2000. A custom built whether you do it or have someone else do it will run you way more than that. And if you let some other place do it, they’ll skimp to SAVE them money. Cheapest everything, power supplies, out of date motherboards, bottom of the line CPU’s, stuff they can’t give away sitting on their shelves. etc..

And FORGET about using the XP machine to build a windows 7 machine. Vista made just about everything on my XP obsolete. windows 7 if anything will build on what Vista has. I had to replace my ATI [top of the line] video card to switch to Vista. Other things too, but replacing a $400+ video card just to run a new OS was not a good move.

I doubt you’ll be seeing any ‘works with windows 7’ notices on hardware & software for at least a year or more.

I’d be still using my XP if it hadn’t blown up.

BUT… again look for the top of the line in ready built’s. ie: this one at that time
Vista HP vs Vista Home basic, 1 gig ram expandable to 4 gigs. It can ALSO run 64 bit software. 152 gig C:\ drive, I now have 7 drives up to 2 tera bytes of drive space. lots of USB slots front and back, Dual core D CPU, some sort of mini windows office software, lots of other software. AND SLOTS.. look for CURRENT technology tech.

There wasn’t any PCI express 2 slots. And not one web page could say whether PCI express 16 was the same as PCI express 2.
this is the NEW tech. Supposedly from my research PCI express 16 and PCI express 2 are compatible. Down to the slots themselves. But the hardware itself could be very much different and that would be the motherboard & video card realm.
as for the new PS4 and GPU… Better than sliced bread.. And all this works with the ‘1 year old dinosaur machine’ and hardware I’m currently using.

I think if windows 7 makes as much hardware & software obsolete as Vista did, M$ may be looking for a bread line that will feed them.

But if windows 7 is your goal, check out all you can with it and go from there.

check out that website I told you about for examples of MAXED out home builds. ‘what is my WEI’. google this it should pop right up. I think it’s a windows discussion group.

this website should give you plenty of suggestions on what everyone else is using. But since you’re talking about windows 7, I’d say put it all on a back burner and just educate yourself on what’s what to make an informed decision. again epinions is a real good place to compare shop WITH comments. And take them with a grain of salt. My card was commented as sounding like cats in tin cans in the dryer cycle. I haven’t heard a peep.

Amazon also has a user satisfaction comparison on everything they sell.

Any suggestions on specifics would be just guesses. I have 1 video card , 1 machine that I’m about as happy as it’s possible to be with a machine that relies on buggy software to operate.

I’d hate to have a car built by M$. tap the brakes, and wait until they come out with an upgrade.

Oh yeah Directx was a big problem in shopping. It HAD to support the NEWEST Directx.

I just asked vista’s help for ‘video card’ here’s what it had to say

Video cards: frequently asked questions

Here are answers to some common questions about video cards.
How do I find out what kind of video card my computer has? Click to open Display Settings.

Click Advanced Settings, and then click the Adapter tab.
This is where you can see details about your video card, including what kind of video card your computer has.

How do I find out how much memory my video card has?
Click to open Display Settings.

Click Advanced Settings, and then click the Adapter tab.
This is where you can see details about your video card, including how much memory your video card has.

How can I find out whether my video card is compatible with Windows? To find out whether Windows is compatible with your video card, go to the Windows Vista Compatibility Center website. This website contains a comprehensive list of video cards (graphics cards) that have been tested to work with Windows Vista.

Can I upgrade my video card?
If your computer uses a separate video card, you can upgrade the video card by removing the original card and replacing it with a new one.

If your computer’s video card is built directly onto the computer’s motherboard, you still might be able to upgrade the card. If your computer has an available AGP, PCI, or PCI-Express slot, you can usually purchase a video card designed for this slot and use it in place of the built-in video output.
Doesn’t even mention PCI express 2 on the 1 year old helps.
How do I update the driver for my video card?
You might occasionally encounter a game or other program that requires you to update to a newer version of the driver for your video card. For instructions on updating drivers, see Update a driver for hardware that isn’t working properly.

Note
Video card manufacturers often release updates to their drivers to enhance performance or fix compatibility issues with new games. If you need the latest driver for your video card, visit the support section on your video card manufacturer’s website for information on how to download and install the newest driver.
See ATI’s poor performance in updates. Every upgrade was worse than the one b4.
What is video acceleration?
Video acceleration, also referred to as 3-D acceleration, uses a graphics processing unit (GPU) on the video card to speed the display of text and graphics on the screen, and to enable graphic effects such as transparency and simulated lighting. The video acceleration features of your video card determine how quickly things are drawn on the screen, and whether you can use all of the graphic effects available in Windows, games, and other programs.
Heat production here… AND SPEED… speed = heat.
Can I use more than one video card in my computer?
Some computers allow you to plug in two or more video cards, each connected to its own monitor. Other computers allow you to pair video cards for display on a single monitor to increase performance, using technologies such as NVIDIA SLI, ATI CrossFire, or another technology. Check with the manufacturer to see if your computer has the necessary hardware to support multiple video cards.
Nvidia is pimping this in all their new cards.
What is a video capture card?
You can use a video capture card to display or record video from sources such as VCRs and camcorders. Many video capture cards don’t support connection to a monitor, but instead require that your system also contain a standard video card.
2 different animals. capture card or video card.

See also
Add a second monitor
Was this information helpful?
K
keepout
Jan 14, 2009
On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 15:53:39 -0800, Father Kodak
wrote:

On Tue, 13 Jan 2009 11:53:36 -0500, wrote:

On Mon, 12 Jan 2009 16:58:37 -0800, Father Kodak
wrote:

Here’s some free experience.

I added a Cintiq tablet.

Good point.

This required a dual monitor display. The HP a1723w
comes with an onboard video card, but plenty of slots for other extras. Also required a NEW video card that could handle dual displays.

for now the WEI max is 5.9. Take a look at the ‘what is your WEI’ website to see what sort of maxed out machines exist.

Can you post the specific URL. There are tons of websites that come up in a Google search.
just google ‘what is your WEI’. And if you found TONS, I’d say grab your dart and throw. they’re just brag sites for those with more money than brains.

It was a 1 year old a1723w. A dinosaur in computer times. So I had to actually shop for a dinosaur video card.

Actually, if you try hard enough, you can buy video cards that were released 2-3 or more years ago. I needed one such card recently for an old system and found several choices on newegg, which is my go-to store for computer gear.

Size of board in inches is probably the #1 consideration.. Will it fit ?

Argues for a big case.

I had to replace the 100 watt Power supply with the 600 watt I had for the XP. Heat.. you wouldn’t believe the cottage industry in heat sinks for every card

Actually I can. But it’s still amazing/dismaying.

Though I did ‘reconsider’ ATI, I spent 7 years as an ATI involuntary Beta tester. And them selling out ATI is just admitting what those using the ATI cards knew all along, ATI software was garbage.

Amen, brother. I once spent years struggling with a system that was unstable because of a supposedly high-end Matrox card. Pfui!

New thing with PS4, it uses the video cards GPU. I tested the GPU the other day on a 29,000 pixel x 37,500 image. Something like that you’d expect action from time to start to time to finish in the minutes or hours. with the new GPU usage, it was instantaneous..

That is a great argument for getting a good video card, despite some people’s claims that CS 4 is rough around the edges. If it is, I wouldn’t be surprised. Anything this major, with all the different apps being released simultaneously, is bound to have some issues.
This was a 2.8 gig image. It did take 15 minutes to save. But in memory with that 1 gig video ram on the card couple things to try if you think you can create an image that size.

So if the video memory is available, CS 4 will take advantage of that?
It would seem so. Like I said it swung that 2.8 image around in memory with ZERO stuttering or delays. It moved as easily as if it were a 32×32 thumbnail.

Now if I ever do get around to having 24 different layers on the same image again, It’d be interesting to see how it works then. On my XP, I could have lunch between key presses.

Does it make sense to run two video cards in SLI for Photoshop? I’m not a gamer.
No idea. I just needed a card with 2 outputs for the Cintiq tablet.


add up all your needs.

1st consideration is OS MAC or Windows ? My prefs for graphics only would be MAC. For General purpose M$. Actually M$ is a monopoly sad to say. IOW, there’s really no choice in the matter. That could be a plus. All hardware and software is also designed to run on M$.

I have this love/hate thing with MS. Love because an entire computing ecosystem is built around windows and it mostly/sort of work. Hate, because Windows is such a poor excuse for an OS. And I’m not ready to buy the Linux on the desktop arguments. Not until Outlook runs on Linux.

3 Dual CPU or better.. Quad CPU’s is actually now. FWIW: They’re starting to listen to what Amiga taught them 20 years ago.

True enough. In two-three years, we’ll be hearing about 8 and 16 core CPUs.

google ‘the thing’ 256 CPU’s. That came out 20 years ago.

All that depends on MS and others "cracking the nut" about multi-threading. In that aspect, Solaris scales far better than any
Again, all they need do is learn from amiga what they did. 64 meg machine did and still does run circles around the windows OS.

other OS, Linux included. But who would use Solaris on any desktop system in 2009?

and finally make sure everything you want to use is compatible with everything

Yeah. That’s why I want to seek out real-live examples of successfully built systems, including all the hardware, the major software, etc.

else. ie: do I want a muscle video card ? or a muscle motherboard ? Can either or both work on the OS ?

If you buy components that are Vista-ready, and you check in advance for driver support, you probably won’t be disappointed. Just don’t expect that you could run Windows XP or Linux on that system.
I have found, that getting what you want with a machine is not as easy as getting what you need.
Not everything will work with everything else. which is why I settled on a video card going into obsolescence rather than WAIT for the hardware gurus to come out with something better for my 1 year old machine.

Again, amen brother.

This shopping for the right card took way longer than I wanted it to [about 2 weeks], 3 choices I made were obsolete at online stores when I made my decision.

As for ATI, my personal opinion, you won’t get paid in anything but frustration keeping up with the monthly upgrades that are always worse than the upgrades from last month.

I get all the frustration I need from other vendors. # 1 on my list: Intuit with Quicken. They would have to do a major, major improvement just to get their support up to "it sucks badly" level.
Though I haven’t had any upgrades for this card, I’m not griping. It works fine as is.

Wacom told me don’t NEED the top of the line card, but you also don’t want the bottom of the barrel. mid range should have been the selection. At one time
[when this a1723w came out] the 8500GT WAS top of the line, but it was bottom
of the barrel when I needed a card. 1 year later.
I guess is also comes down to price, at some point.

and here’s something that’ll really roast your chestnuts. 64 bit vs 32 bit. It’s like the difference in M$ and Mac..
64 bit drivers don’t exist in the abundance 32 bit drivers exist.. IOW: That’s just one more thing you need to take into consideration. That will put a real throttle on choices for other hardware AND software.
re: 3 cards were obsolete when I went to buy them because they had all the specs I could use.
64 bit will put a lot of stuff out of bounds.

Agree. See my comments above, which I wrote even before reading this paragraph.

My XP machine was maybe 6 months ahead of the software curve. It actually took about a year to get things for that machine. The question is WILL they finally get around to making 64 bit drivers for EVERY 32 bit driver out there ?

Never. Ever time there is a major OS upgrade, there is an accompanying die-off of peripherals. Printers, scanners, video cards, etc. Most manufacturers (ASUS being one notable exception) do not do BIOS and driver upgrades for products that are several years old. Or maybe the vendor is no longer in that business, or completely out of business.

You’re looking at a huge cost, in that EVERYTHING will HAVE to be bought centered around 64 bit. Lots of hardware and software will become obsolete. 64 bit will definitely cost more than 32 bit stuff UNTIL the majority of the M$ sheep switch to 64 bit.. What is windows 7 ? 32 or 64 ? which do you want to bet your future on, windows 7 32 bit or 64 bit ? Adobe has thrown up their hands with M$.

I will be surprised if MS even markets a 32-bit version of Windows 7, even though they have a 32-bit version available for beta download. By 2011, PC manufacturers will be building only 64-bit systems, and will want to load them up with more than 4 GB so that they can run the latest software with reasonable performance. Not many people have been upgrading their existing systems from XP to Vista, and by 2011, people may simply buy new systems rather than upgrade 5 years old PCs.
Now add up all those decisions for EVERY piece of hardware and you see the problem. It’s not a simple question, OR a simple answer. Is money a factor ? You’ll probably spend $10,000 on everything.

I don’t know how you get to $10K, unless you’re spending thousands on just the monitor(s).
$1000.00 Adobe Suite, $400 – 900 video card or two, 32 bit software to 64 bit $2-5000.00, new machine $1000 – $5000.00.

my mistake $10,000 or MORE.

Make a list and sort it by hand in priorities as to what your WANTS are, then see how close you can find hardware AND software that will meet those wants.

Or, wait six months and prices will come down.
All this won’t happen for at least a year as is. Beta software DOES NOT have ANY support or pay.
He has plenty of time to educate himself on what he wants, and what he can afford to want.

Father Kodak

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