Auto align

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Mon, 23 March 2009 06:24 Go to next message
johan[2] (Photoshop begginer)
I have hundreds of overlapping image pairs taken with two static cameras.

Now, I want to stitch the image pairs together forming hundreds of
panoramas.

Is there a way to use the Auto Align function on the first image pair,
end then to re-use the exact same transformation on all the following
image pairs?

Using Auto Align on each pair will create slightly different
transformations and I don't want that.

Tia

/Johan Stäck
Stockholm
Sweden
Mon, 23 March 2009 12:18 Go to previous messageGo to next message
jaSPAMc (Photoshop expert)
Johan Stäck <johan@stack.se> found these unused words:

>I have hundreds of overlapping image pairs taken with two static cameras.
>
>Now, I want to stitch the image pairs together forming hundreds of
>panoramas.
>
>Is there a way to use the Auto Align function on the first image pair,
>end then to re-use the exact same transformation on all the following
>image pairs?
>
>Using Auto Align on each pair will create slightly different
>transformations and I don't want that.
>
>Tia
>
>/Johan Stäck
>Stockholm
>Sweden

No, download a panorama creating program. Tools do what they're best
designed for, not something 'approximate'.
Mon, 23 March 2009 12:39 Go to previous messageGo to next message
John J (Photoshop expert)
Sir F. A. Rien wrote:

> No, download a panorama creating program. Tools do what they're best
> designed for, not something 'approximate'.

It can be done with some scripting if the OP can guarantee that the
image file names have some logical association for each pair.
Mon, 23 March 2009 12:53 Go to previous messageGo to next message
John J (Photoshop expert)
John J wrote:
> Sir F. A. Rien wrote:
>
>> No, download a panorama creating program. Tools do what they're best
>> designed for, not something 'approximate'.
>
> It can be done with some scripting if the OP can guarantee that the
> image file names have some logical association for each pair.

Wait - that's not true. My error. If there are the same number of images
per set (two in this case), and the files are in order of creation, OR
they have a logical naming convention, then it can be scripted.
Mon, 23 March 2009 14:05 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Fred (Photoshop expert)
> Johan Stäck <johan@stack.se> found these unused words:
>
>>I have hundreds of overlapping image pairs taken with two static cameras.
>>
>>Now, I want to stitch the image pairs together forming hundreds of
>>panoramas.
>>
>>Is there a way to use the Auto Align function on the first image pair,
>>end then to re-use the exact same transformation on all the following
>>image pairs?
>>
>>Using Auto Align on each pair will create slightly different
>>transformations and I don't want that.
>>
>>Tia
>>
>>/Johan Stäck
>>Stockholm
>>Sweden
>
> No, download a panorama creating program. Tools do what they're best
> designed for, not something 'approximate'.
>

Photoshop CS4 is by far the best panorama-stitching program you can find.
But, to the OP, that's not what auto-align is for.
Maybe you could try the legacy options in the Photomerge command?
Mon, 23 March 2009 15:14 Go to previous messageGo to next message
johan[2] (Photoshop begginer)
John J wrote:
> Sir F. A. Rien wrote:
>
>> No, download a panorama creating program. Tools do what they're best
>> designed for, not something 'approximate'.
>
> It can be done with some scripting if the OP can guarantee that the
> image file names have some logical association for each pair.
>
Scripting to stitch all the image pairs is in itself not a problem.
However, using Auto Align causes some problems.
Therefore I would want to use "manual align" using an initial Auto Align
as a "template".
I have been experimenting a lot with the manual transformation tools,
but it is tricky. Auto align does it better...

Auto Align/Auto Blend creates great panoramas (when looked at individually)
The problem with Auto Align becomes visible when all the panoramas are
displayed in rapid succession. (e.g. processed to form a video presentation)
Auto Align will make slightly different decisions for different picture
pairs even if the cameras are static.

/Johan S
Mon, 23 March 2009 15:15 Go to previous messageGo to next message
gowanoh (Photoshop expert)
If the paired images are assigned the appropriate file names then a macro
script can be developed that will robotically run each pair through the
panorama process.
I believe that assigning paired names, if the images are not already stored
with easily identified pairings, will take longer than manually running the
panorama process for each individual pair. The latter process can be
automated somewhat with a simple action.
Mon, 23 March 2009 17:09 Go to previous messageGo to next message
D-Mac (Photoshop begginer)
Johan Stäck wrote:
> I have hundreds of overlapping image pairs taken with two static cameras.
>
> Now, I want to stitch the image pairs together forming hundreds of
> panoramas.
>
> Is there a way to use the Auto Align function on the first image pair,
> end then to re-use the exact same transformation on all the following
> image pairs?
>
> Using Auto Align on each pair will create slightly different
> transformations and I don't want that.
>
> Tia
>
> /Johan Stäck
> Stockholm
> Sweden

PT-GUI is a plug-in for PS that is well regarded by pano makers. I've
never used it (or Photoshop) to make a pano but there is a free demo
available.

I use Corel Photo Paint to join images because of it's very flexible
method of graduated transparency. It's all a manual thing with PP so it
might suit you better. Free demo with this too.

D-Mac.info
Tue, 24 March 2009 00:34 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joel (Photoshop expert)
Johan Stäck <johan@stack.se> wrote:

> I have hundreds of overlapping image pairs taken with two static cameras.
>
> Now, I want to stitch the image pairs together forming hundreds of
> panoramas.
>
> Is there a way to use the Auto Align function on the first image pair,
> end then to re-use the exact same transformation on all the following
> image pairs?
>
> Using Auto Align on each pair will create slightly different
> transformations and I don't want that.

I have read the newer CS3 and CS4 have feature to stitch image(s)
together, and I read they do pretty good job. But I have never looked at it
myself to know much about it.

But I knoew there are tons of standalone program designed specific for
this job, and you should be able to GOOGLE for bunch of them. Yes, I have
messed with some of them many years ago, and I don't remember the name.

They do automatically, turn into 360 degree photo (clip) or landscape.
Some is better, easier than other.
Tue, 24 March 2009 01:23 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Rob (Photoshop expert)
Joel wrote:
> Johan Stäck <johan@stack.se> wrote:
>
>> I have hundreds of overlapping image pairs taken with two static cameras.
>>
>> Now, I want to stitch the image pairs together forming hundreds of
>> panoramas.
>>
>> Is there a way to use the Auto Align function on the first image pair,
>> end then to re-use the exact same transformation on all the following
>> image pairs?
>>
>> Using Auto Align on each pair will create slightly different
>> transformations and I don't want that.
>
> I have read the newer CS3 and CS4 have feature to stitch image(s)
> together, and I read they do pretty good job. But I have never looked at it
> myself to know much about it.
>
> But I knoew there are tons of standalone program designed specific for
> this job, and you should be able to GOOGLE for bunch of them. Yes, I have
> messed with some of them many years ago, and I don't remember the name.
>
> They do automatically, turn into 360 degree photo (clip) or landscape.
> Some is better, easier than other.



here we have some more information.

http://help.adobe.com/en_US/Photoshop/11.0/WS9ADF1895-A714-4 f73-B91C-3A83ED225A77a.html

http://www.gotosnapshot.com/myblog/adobe-photoshop-cs4-auto- align-auto-blend-layers
Tue, 24 March 2009 09:44 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joel (Photoshop expert)
Rob <mesa@mine.com.au> wrote:

> Joel wrote:
> > Johan Stäck <johan@stack.se> wrote:
> >
> >> I have hundreds of overlapping image pairs taken with two static cameras.
> >>
> >> Now, I want to stitch the image pairs together forming hundreds of
> >> panoramas.
> >>
> >> Is there a way to use the Auto Align function on the first image pair,
> >> end then to re-use the exact same transformation on all the following
> >> image pairs?
> >>
> >> Using Auto Align on each pair will create slightly different
> >> transformations and I don't want that.
> >
> > I have read the newer CS3 and CS4 have feature to stitch image(s)
> > together, and I read they do pretty good job. But I have never looked at it
> > myself to know much about it.
> >
> > But I knoew there are tons of standalone program designed specific for
> > this job, and you should be able to GOOGLE for bunch of them. Yes, I have
> > messed with some of them many years ago, and I don't remember the name.
> >
> > They do automatically, turn into 360 degree photo (clip) or landscape.
> > Some is better, easier than other.
>
>
> here we have some more information.
>
> http://help.adobe.com/en_US/Photoshop/11.0/WS9ADF1895-A714-4 f73-B91C-3A83ED225A77a.html
>
> http://www.gotosnapshot.com/myblog/adobe-photoshop-cs4-auto- align-auto-blend-layers

Thanks for the link. I don't have browser running at the moment to check,
and I saw a short clip video once to have some idea (not much detail but
general idea) how Photoshop works. And I have played with several programs
(even one of my digital camera had built-in this option) so I know the
general of the strong and weak point (of the special design and Photoshop).

I hope the OP read then check the links you provide.
Thu, 26 March 2009 09:27 Go to previous messageGo to next message
johan[2] (Photoshop begginer)
<snip>
>
> Thanks for the link. I don't have browser running at the moment to check,
> and I saw a short clip video once to have some idea (not much detail but
> general idea) how Photoshop works. And I have played with several programs
> (even one of my digital camera had built-in this option) so I know the
> general of the strong and weak point (of the special design and Photoshop).
>
> I hope the OP read then check the links you provide.


Yes, I have followed up the links provided.
Unfortunately, they don't offer the information that I need.

I don't have a problem to perform or understand the concepts of
auto-align as described in the documentation.

The problem that I have is to somehow retrieve the numerical values of
the image distortion that auto-align causes.

If you perform the distortion manually, then you can see the numerical
values and re-use them for another image pair.

Auto-align exits with the image distortion performed and "committed",
and no traces of the numerical values are to be found.
/Johan S
Thu, 26 March 2009 10:03 Go to previous messageGo to next message
John J (Photoshop expert)
Johan Stäck wrote:

> Auto-align exits with the image distortion performed and "committed",
> and no traces of the numerical values are to be found.

Yes, that is true even with detailed logging turned on. If the task is
making one merge to create an action, then letting it rip through a
folder, and if all your picture-pairs are done the same way (not sloppy
hand-held images), then you do not need photo-merge: you could make an
action of creating the first one and then let perform on a folder of
images - providing, as I mentioned earlier, you have a logical file
naming or dating convention.

It would be unfortunate if your creation of the pictures did not follow
a regular method. It truly helps to make the pictures properly in the
first place and not depend upon Photoshop to make up for sloppy work.

For the bit-twiddlerers, the photo-merge is java and use of shared
plugin which you would have to explore.

C:\Program Files\Adobe\Adobe Photoshop CS3\Presets\Scripts\Photomerge.jsx
Fri, 27 March 2009 14:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
Joel (Photoshop expert)
Johan Stäck <johan@stack.se> wrote:

> <snip>
> >
> > Thanks for the link. I don't have browser running at the moment to check,
> > and I saw a short clip video once to have some idea (not much detail but
> > general idea) how Photoshop works. And I have played with several programs
> > (even one of my digital camera had built-in this option) so I know the
> > general of the strong and weak point (of the special design and Photoshop).
> >
> > I hope the OP read then check the links you provide.
>
>
> Yes, I have followed up the links provided.
> Unfortunately, they don't offer the information that I need.
>
> I don't have a problem to perform or understand the concepts of
> auto-align as described in the documentation.
>
> The problem that I have is to somehow retrieve the numerical values of
> the image distortion that auto-align causes.
>
> If you perform the distortion manually, then you can see the numerical
> values and re-use them for another image pair.
>
> Auto-align exits with the image distortion performed and "committed",
> and no traces of the numerical values are to be found.
> /Johan S

As I have mentioned that I didn't look at the link, but in general the
term for combining multiple images into single long/larger one is called
"panorama" which you should be able to GOOGLE for tons of them.

Most panorama should be able to join the images together automatically,
and I believe the newer Photoshop can do similar (but I don't know if it can
join more than 2 images or not).

1. Since the panorama program can handle many images, and some can do rather
quick, some can do vertical some do horizontal, some do both. And some has
more/less auto/manually option.

The weak point that because it isn't a graphic editor or doesn't give
editing option so sometime it may show some difference at the join. With
Photoshop user should be able to Mask to blend the join better.

2. Photoshop, I tried once with older version of Photoshop that doesn't have
the option to auto-joint (panorama) multiple images, but I didn't have much
problem using Photoshop command.

About distortion, then no panorama program can fix the distortion, but you
sure can do with Photoshop. May not auto (I am not so sure), but you sure
can do manually.
Sun, 29 March 2009 05:07 Go to previous messageGo to next message
johan[2] (Photoshop begginer)
Joel wrote:
> Johan Stäck <johan@stack.se> wrote:
>
>> <snip>
>>> Thanks for the link. I don't have browser running at the moment to check,
>>> and I saw a short clip video once to have some idea (not much detail but
>>> general idea) how Photoshop works. And I have played with several programs
>>> (even one of my digital camera had built-in this option) so I know the
>>> general of the strong and weak point (of the special design and Photoshop).
>>>
>>> I hope the OP read then check the links you provide.
>>
>> Yes, I have followed up the links provided.
>> Unfortunately, they don't offer the information that I need.
>>
>> I don't have a problem to perform or understand the concepts of
>> auto-align as described in the documentation.
>>
>> The problem that I have is to somehow retrieve the numerical values of
>> the image distortion that auto-align causes.
>>
>> If you perform the distortion manually, then you can see the numerical
>> values and re-use them for another image pair.
>>
>> Auto-align exits with the image distortion performed and "committed",
>> and no traces of the numerical values are to be found.
>> /Johan S
>
> As I have mentioned that I didn't look at the link, but in general the
> term for combining multiple images into single long/larger one is called
> "panorama" which you should be able to GOOGLE for tons of them.
Yes, I am well aware of this, and I have been trying out (and even
bought) a number of "Panorama programs"
>
> Most panorama should be able to join the images together automatically,
> and I believe the newer Photoshop can do similar (but I don't know if it can
> join more than 2 images or not).
O yes, Photoshop is *very* capable at merging several images to form a
panorama.
>
> 1. Since the panorama program can handle many images, and some can do rather
> quick, some can do vertical some do horizontal, some do both. And some has
> more/less auto/manually option.
>
> The weak point that because it isn't a graphic editor or doesn't give
> editing option so sometime it may show some difference at the join. With
> Photoshop user should be able to Mask to blend the join better.
Yes, in my project I have decided on using Photoshop for the processing
of my images. The processing for each picture pair consists of
-Rotating one of the images slightly
-Cropping both images
-Aligning
-Blending

All is done in a VB6 program.
I use the Sciptlistener to record the actions and modify the VBS code to
make it "legal" VB6.
Works fine now.


>
> 2. Photoshop, I tried once with older version of Photoshop that doesn't have
> the option to auto-joint (panorama) multiple images, but I didn't have much
> problem using Photoshop command.
>
> About distortion, then no panorama program can fix the distortion, but you
> sure can do with Photoshop. May not auto (I am not so sure), but you sure
> can do manually.

What I meant was that *all* Panorama manufacturing means distorting one
or more of the images to make them fit togeteher.
Photoshop offers several means of distortion.

/Johan S
>
Sun, 29 March 2009 13:08 Go to previous message
Joel (Photoshop expert)
Johan Stäck <johan@stack.se> wrote:

<snip>
> > 1. Since the panorama program can handle many images, and some can do rather
> > quick, some can do vertical some do horizontal, some do both. And some has
> > more/less auto/manually option.
> >
> > The weak point that because it isn't a graphic editor or doesn't give
> > editing option so sometime it may show some difference at the join. With
> > Photoshop user should be able to Mask to blend the join better.
> Yes, in my project I have decided on using Photoshop for the processing
> of my images. The processing for each picture pair consists of
> -Rotating one of the images slightly
> -Cropping both images
> -Aligning
> -Blending
>
> All is done in a VB6 program.
> I use the Sciptlistener to record the actions and modify the VBS code to
> make it "legal" VB6.
> Works fine now.

Since I have known few tricks of Photoshop, so I too prefer Photoshop over
the panorama program. If I do then these are what I have in mind.

- If the photo is not straight then I would use some command (I know what
they are but can't remember the name at the moment) to straighten it out.

- Lower the Opacity of the top layer (in order to see the lower layer) to
align the photos.

- Then I would use Quick Mask command to blend the photos together. I
believe some Blend Mode's would also be used, but I am not very good with
these blending modes so I just can't be able to picture what the result may
look like. Or I usually be able to picture the result just by looking at
the photo (after staring at hundreds of thousands of photos)

I think I can image some photo may not have similar color (off at some
point), so probably more than 2 layers may be needed. Then blend them using
Quick Mask (I use Quick Mask command on nearly all my retouching)

> > 2. Photoshop, I tried once with older version of Photoshop that doesn't have
> > the option to auto-joint (panorama) multiple images, but I didn't have much
> > problem using Photoshop command.
> >
> > About distortion, then no panorama program can fix the distortion, but you
> > sure can do with Photoshop. May not auto (I am not so sure), but you sure
> > can do manually.
>
> What I meant was that *all* Panorama manufacturing means distorting one
> or more of the images to make them fit togeteher.
> Photoshop offers several means of distortion.

Yup! all panorama programs can't do what graphic editor can, so they just
have few simple straighten and blending options to get thing done to impress
some newbie. And if we have some basic Photoshop skill then we should be
able to do a better job.

IOW, most photos have some distortion (because of the lens and distance)
and the panorama program tries to straighten all objects and it will lose
the TOP and BOTTOM.

Last time I have some talk about the distortion but ended up upsetting the
OP because he didn't want me pointing out his famous photo <bg>. Of if we
take a photograph of a tall, big building/castle etc. then we will notice
the walls won't be straight. And the Panorama usually try to straighten all
the walls and it ends up with an arc shape.
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