Adobe RGB and sRGB

J
Posted By
Jeffrey
Jan 8, 2004
Views
748
Replies
11
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Closed
While exactly is the difference between the Adobe RGB and sRGB workspaces. I know tht the Adobe RGB workspace is suppossed to contain more colours than the sRGB workspace, but I cannot understand this, if they both seemed to be based upon 3 channels of 8 bit colours.

Jeffrey

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N
nemlidaka
Jan 8, 2004
Adobe RGB supports wider/brighter shades of colors.

You can see comparison 3D Models at http://www.iccview.de/

Maris

Jeffrey wrote:
While exactly is the difference between the Adobe RGB and sRGB workspaces. I know tht the Adobe RGB workspace is suppossed to contain more colours than the sRGB workspace, but I cannot understand this, if they both seemed to be based upon 3 channels of 8 bit colours.

Jeffrey


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F
Flycaster
Jan 8, 2004
"Jeffrey" wrote in message
While exactly is the difference between the Adobe RGB and sRGB workspaces. I know tht the Adobe RGB workspace is suppossed to contain more colours
than
the sRGB workspace, but I cannot understand this, if they both seemed to
be
based upon 3 channels of 8 bit colours.

Same math, just different tones of those colors which results in a wider gamut for ARGB relative to sRGB.

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MR
Mike Russell
Jan 8, 2004
Jeffrey wrote:
While exactly is the difference between the Adobe RGB and sRGB workspaces. I know tht the Adobe RGB workspace is suppossed to contain more colours than the sRGB workspace, but I cannot understand this, if they both seemed to be based upon 3 channels of 8 bit colours.

Not much difference between the two.

sRGB is closer to a "generic" monitor, and will have brighter colors than Adobe RGB when viewed on most web browsers, and other programs that do not know about color management.

If you’d like to look at the gamut of sRGB, Adobe RGB, and compare them with your monitor or printer profiles, check out the free gamut viewing image available under "Color Gamut Plotter":
www.curvemeister.com/downloads/


Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net
LH
Les Holder
Jan 8, 2004
Hi

That said, if you output to print the opposite is true (if the lab can make best use of Adobe RGB)

Les

"Mike Russell" wrote in message
Jeffrey wrote:
While exactly is the difference between the Adobe RGB and sRGB workspaces. I know tht the Adobe RGB workspace is suppossed to contain more colours than the sRGB workspace, but I cannot understand this, if they both seemed to be based upon 3 channels of 8 bit colours.

Not much difference between the two.

sRGB is closer to a "generic" monitor, and will have brighter colors than Adobe RGB when viewed on most web browsers, and other programs that do not know about color management.

If you’d like to look at the gamut of sRGB, Adobe RGB, and compare them
with
your monitor or printer profiles, check out the free gamut viewing image available under "Color Gamut Plotter":
www.curvemeister.com/downloads/


Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net

G
Greg
Jan 8, 2004
"Jeffrey" wrote in message
While exactly is the difference between the Adobe RGB and sRGB workspaces. I know tht the Adobe RGB workspace is suppossed to contain more colours
than
the sRGB workspace, but I cannot understand this, if they both seemed to
be
based upon 3 channels of 8 bit colours.

The difference occurs only because of the *way* these three channels of information
are interpreted. A typical RGB image file, as you say, is just three channels with 8-bits
of resolution, and has absolutely zero colour in itself. 🙂 It’s only when this information
is interpreted and displayed that colour results.

In Adobe RGB, the red, green, and blue colourants are different to that in sRGB,
so a given RGB pixel value is mixing together different red green and blue primary
colours. Because the primary colours on which the Adobe RGB colour space is modelled on are "purer" than the primary colours which sRGB is modelled on, the range of colours which can be represented in Adobe RGB is larger than sRGB.

This does not mean that an Adobe RGB image is going to produce a wider colour
range on a standard monitor – the colour range of a standard monitor is limited by
it’s phosphors. (NEC/Mitsubishi are bringing out an expensive monitor which really
*can* display almost all of the Adobe RGB colour gamut, however, and I understand
there are already other very expensive monitors with appreciably wider gamut than standard)

My understanding is that the *most* important hues which Adobe RGB can reproduce
which sRGB cannot is cyans – it is cyans which printers can produce significantly better
than a standard monitor, and so using a working space of Adobe RGB allows these colours
to be represented in the digital image file, *despite* the fact that they can’t be displayed
entirely accurately on almost everybody’s monitors.

Now, when Mike says this:
sRGB is closer to a "generic" monitor, and will have brighter colors than Adobe RGB when viewed on most web browsers, and other programs that do not know about color management.
the reason this occurs (and it occurs only when the program displaying the image does
not know about colour management) is that typically, any given colour will be represented
by pixel values a bit less in Adobe RGB than in the sRGB space, simply because the
RGB primaries need less driving strength in Adobe RGB, because they are purer primaries.

Greg.

Jeffrey

F
Flycaster
Jan 8, 2004
"Les Holder" wrote in message
Hi

That said, if you output to print the opposite is true (if the lab can
make
best use of Adobe RGB)

True.

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B
Bobs
Jan 8, 2004
On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 09:12:21 -0000, "Les Holder" wrote:

Hi

That said, if you output to print the opposite is true (if the lab can make best use of Adobe RGB)

Les

"Mike Russell" wrote in message
Jeffrey wrote:
While exactly is the difference between the Adobe RGB and sRGB workspaces. I know tht the Adobe RGB workspace is suppossed to contain more colours than the sRGB workspace, but I cannot understand this, if they both seemed to be based upon 3 channels of 8 bit colours.

Not much difference between the two.

sRGB is closer to a "generic" monitor, and will have brighter colors than Adobe RGB when viewed on most web browsers, and other programs that do not know about color management.

If you’d like to look at the gamut of sRGB, Adobe RGB, and compare them
with
your monitor or printer profiles, check out the free gamut viewing image available under "Color Gamut Plotter":
www.curvemeister.com/downloads/


Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net
Be aware that most quickie labs (Frontier and the like) now assume sRGB image inputs entirely, and if straight RGB is given to them they may clip certain colors noticeably. This could be an argument for working in an sRGB color space, but in any case is something to be aware of.
LH
Les Holder
Jan 8, 2004
Yes

I use Loxley who deal with Adobe 1998……………..also Dunns

Les
"Bobs" wrote in message
On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 09:12:21 -0000, "Les Holder" wrote:

Hi

That said, if you output to print the opposite is true (if the lab can
make
best use of Adobe RGB)

Les

"Mike Russell" wrote in message
Jeffrey wrote:
While exactly is the difference between the Adobe RGB and sRGB workspaces. I know tht the Adobe RGB workspace is suppossed to contain more colours than the sRGB workspace, but I cannot understand this, if they both seemed to be based upon 3 channels of 8 bit colours.

Not much difference between the two.

sRGB is closer to a "generic" monitor, and will have brighter colors
than
Adobe RGB when viewed on most web browsers, and other programs that do
not
know about color management.

If you’d like to look at the gamut of sRGB, Adobe RGB, and compare them
with
your monitor or printer profiles, check out the free gamut viewing
image
available under "Color Gamut Plotter":
www.curvemeister.com/downloads/


Mike Russell
www.curvemeister.com
www.geigy.2y.net
Be aware that most quickie labs (Frontier and the like) now assume sRGB image inputs entirely, and if straight RGB is given to them they may clip certain colors noticeably. This could be an argument for working in an sRGB color space, but in any case is something to be aware of.
F
Flycaster
Jan 8, 2004
"Bobs" wrote in message
Be aware that most quickie labs (Frontier and the like) now assume sRGB image inputs entirely, and if straight RGB is given to them they may clip certain colors noticeably.

If by "straight RGB" you mean a color space larger than sRGB, you are right on the money, except the operative verb is "will", not "may." Send a file in AdobeRGB to a Frontier mini-lab and it will look flat as a pancake. 😉

This could be an argument for
working in an sRGB color space, but in any case is something to be aware of.

True, there are some who argue this for the sake of simplicity. I don’t know what the actual numbers are, but I’ve read a post here that said only a very small fraction of the total computers actually use software that is capable of converting between color spaces; based on my personal observations, I’d have to concur. Furthermore, the vast majority of digital images being produced today (JPEGS) come tagged in sRGB. Given that reality, that Fuji and Noritsu designed their mini-labs to "assume" sRGB files is not at all surprising.

OTOH, many of us who go back and forth between different output devices believe the better argument is to try to match the final image color space to the actual output device. For anyone using PS or PSE2, it only takes a click or 2 to convert a copy of a file to sRGB if necessary. If you have the option, why not use the best of both worlds?

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W
westin*nospam
Jan 8, 2004
"Jeffrey" writes:

While exactly is the difference between the Adobe RGB and sRGB workspaces. I know tht the Adobe RGB workspace is suppossed to contain more colours than the sRGB workspace, but I cannot understand this, if they both seemed to be based upon 3 channels of 8 bit colours.

It depends what the three channels are. They vary with different monitor phosphors (or filters on an LCD). I don’t think Adobe RGB is designed to be implemented on any real display; it’s a theoretical wide-gamut display that should avoid clipping as much as possible.


-Stephen H. Westin
Any information or opinions in this message are mine: they do not represent the position of Cornell University or any of its sponsors.
B
Bobs
Jan 9, 2004
On Thu, 8 Jan 2004 10:07:09 -0800, "Flycaster" wrote:

"Bobs" wrote in message
Be aware that most quickie labs (Frontier and the like) now assume sRGB image inputs entirely, and if straight RGB is given to them they may clip certain colors noticeably.

If by "straight RGB" you mean a color space larger than sRGB, you are right on the money, except the operative verb is "will", not "may." Send a file in AdobeRGB to a Frontier mini-lab and it will look flat as a pancake. 😉
That’s for sure–that’s for dang sure. And if you want to print an even flatter image, try converting it to "Wide Gamut RGB." I went to a lot of trouble calibrating my monitor with OptiCAL and running the test targets from the ColorVision Profilter Plus utility, but the best results always seem to be from simply converting (in Photoshop) to sRGB in order to "open up" the colors so that the printed output closely resembles the monitor. Most of the time, this seems to be all that’s needed–but the variables of paper and ink can frequently complicate matters. BTW a conversion to sRGB should be all that’s needed when submitting images to fast processing labs (like Costco & Sam’s), provided you’re working from a calibrated monitor.

It was helpful to make up an 8X10 test print containing a large group of identical, well-adjusted images, each having been converted with a different profile. With 24 individually profiled test images on a single sheet, it’s possible to quickly determine which profile provides an optimum print appearance. Not very scientific, but it winds up saving a lot of paper in the long run.

This could be an argument for
working in an sRGB color space, but in any case is something to be aware of.

True, there are some who argue this for the sake of simplicity. I don’t know what the actual numbers are, but I’ve read a post here that said only a very small fraction of the total computers actually use software that is capable of converting between color spaces; based on my personal observations, I’d have to concur. Furthermore, the vast majority of digital images being produced today (JPEGS) come tagged in sRGB. Given that reality, that Fuji and Noritsu designed their mini-labs to "assume" sRGB files is not at all surprising.

OTOH, many of us who go back and forth between different output devices believe the better argument is to try to match the final image color space to the actual output device. For anyone using PS or PSE2, it only takes a click or 2 to convert a copy of a file to sRGB if necessary. If you have the option, why not use the best of both worlds?

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