Color Profile Problems.

CH
Posted By
Col_Hancock
Oct 12, 2005
Views
486
Replies
16
Status
Closed
Hello,
I know that this has probably been covered in here somewhere, but anyway, On opening a photo in CS2 im told that the document has an embedded color profile that does not match the RGB working space ?? All i wanted to do was open a photo to work on, i have options though but its USE, DISCARD or CONVERT, i dont want to do any of those, whats my best option here.
If i choose "dont color manage" will it stop it ? or will it keep coming back ? i never had this with CS.
Thanks Col Hancock
Monitor RGB seems closest to my color preference, but can i stop the nags when i open my pics ?
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L
LenHewitt
Oct 12, 2005
All i wanted to do was open a photo to work on<<

Then the best course of action would be to convert to your Working Space or use the embedded profile – otherwise what you see on screen will not represent the contents of the file. It has an embedded profile for a reason you know – mainly to describe just what colours (as opposed to RGB or CMYK numbers) the image has.
CH
Col_Hancock
Oct 12, 2005
Thanks Len,
I understand you, i just find it more of a hinderance than a help when im trying to repair a photograph and the skin tones are bright orange !! It makes it hard to know if youre blending it right. I set up my monitor "spot on" but adobe delivers my photos in awfully garish colors, i reset CS2 to the defaults but it was no good. I assume i can turn off this color management for good, as i cant see i’ll have a use for it myself.
Thanks again Col .
CN
Cybernetic Nomad
Oct 13, 2005
i just find it more of a hinderance than a help when im trying to repair a photograph and the skin tones are bright orange !!

Sounds like you are using the wrong profile for the image

Colour management can’t really be turned off, as it is a way to interpet RGB/CMYK numbers. (in other words when you turn CM off, you turn the ability to control the interpretation off)

A bit of time on this site may be useful
<http://www.gballard.net/psd.html>

CM may seem like a pain at first, but properly applied, it will save you tons of work.
L
LenHewitt
Oct 13, 2005
If it helps you in any way here is my short "idiot’s guide to CM" <g>

The numbers in an image file do not represent specific colours. For example, 255R, 0G, 0B just means "make the brightest, most saturated red you can". It doesn’t mean a specific SHADE of red, and the red that will result will depend upon the capabilities of the device the data is being sent to (usually either a monitor or printer of some sort).

Only when coupled with an ICC profile that describes the ‘colour space’ do those numbers represent a specific shade.

There is data in a file. That data doesn’t represent specific colours UNTIL the colour space is stated (embedded profile or assign profile).

The working profile sets up the colour space you are working in, and the embedded profile allows the CM engine to convert the file data values to your working space values so those values still represent the same colour as originally indicated by the file data and embedded profile.

The monitor profile alters that data from your working space on the fly to allow the monitor to display the colours represented by the data within the working space profile.

When you print, the output profile alters the data to allow the printer to reproduce the colours represented by the data and the image profile.

The monitor profile effectively drops out of the equation when you print.

Provided the ‘translation’ from working space to monitor is correct AND the translation from working space to output device is correct, the print will match the monitor.

However, only if the translation from embedded profile to working space is also correct will the monitor and print also match the original file intentions.

For a fuller explanation, spend some 15 minutes or so over at http://www.computer-darkroom.com
CH
Col_Hancock
Oct 13, 2005
Thanks for all the guides , will read those indepth.
I can see that maybe all this would be useful for those printing or psoting to the net etc, but its of no use at all to me, i just want to work on an image in its correct form, but no matter what i choose in CS2 i never get a satisfactory color to work with, regardless of the profile i choose, ( i edit and repair photos ) it isnt until the image is saved and i open it with say windows fax and picture viewer that the image looks half decent and i can check it thoroughly. Also i found that even though CS2 displays photos in bold bright colors, when they are saved to disk they revert back to normality anyway.
I might sound truly difficult !! but im just finding this bit really hard, its totally alien after CS (PS v.8)
What profile in CS2 in Color Settings should i be using anyway, whaich one is the norm ,so to speak ?

Thank you all for your patience and time, i appreciate it immensely. Col
Oh by the way… I WILL grasp this within a few days i promise, im not one to be beat.
C
chrisjbirchall
Oct 13, 2005
Monitors, web browsers and non colour-managed image viewers and the like, work in a colour space which approximates sRGB. Try setting this as your working space in Photoshop.

HOWEVER: Photoshop is a colour managed program – so you will need to run Adobe Gamma (which you’ll find in the Windows control panel) to adjust your system to respond correctly to the PS colour management.

It was probably pure luck that you didn’t have any such issues with previous versions, because they too were colour managed.

Follow Len’s advice – especially the last paragraph.

Chris.
CH
Col_Hancock
Oct 13, 2005
Thanks Chris,
I prefer to use Nvidias Gamma tool as opposed to Adobe Gamma, i get far better results, can i assign that to CS2 ?
C
chrisjbirchall
Oct 13, 2005
Can’t help you there as I’ve never used it.

All I can do is point to the fact Adobe Gamma and Adobe Photoshop are made by the same people!
CH
Col_Hancock
Oct 13, 2005
AHA…
I seem to be making some headway now, after adjusting my gamma on my monitor again using Nvidia, i reduced the red tones and saved the
sRGB Color profile. Now when in CS2 i used the Monitor Profile in Color Settings and opened a photo, it appeared all good n correct.!!
Then i noted it said that Monitor Color makes Photoshop behave as if color management were off. So i then chose the North America General Purpose and its own sRGB and with all 3 Preserve embedded profiles on.
I then opened a photo which earlier had displayed too red and it displayed perfectly this time. Am i getting there now ??
Sorry for being so slow to grasp the concept here, but i think im winning. Thanks Again everyone.
L
LenHewitt
Oct 13, 2005
Am i getting there now ?<<

Er, not really! Monitor spaces and editing spaces are two distinctly different things. Monitor spaces don’t make good editing (working) spaces since a working space should be as near to linear as possible, and that’s not true for monitor spaces.

If you saved your monitor profile to sRGB you have probably over-written the genuine sRGB profile…

Now your sRGB profile will be different to the rest of the world’s.
CH
Col_Hancock
Oct 13, 2005
Nvidia changes Gamma to its correct settings and saves it as an ICC file, that cant be wrong, it only applies to the color setting of my monitor, if mines wrong then everyone with an Nvidia graphics card would be wrong to.
L
LenHewitt
Oct 14, 2005
Let me try and explain a little more.

When you create a monitor profile, you modify an existing (generic) profile to be specific to your monitor. If you save it to the same name as the generic profile you will over-write that original.

Now that doesn’t matter IF it was a generic monitor profile that you started with, but it DOES matter if you over-write a standard profile, such as sRGB Color Space Profile.icm. That profile is very specificaly defined colour space (sRGB IEC61966-2.1).

Many devices are set up to sRGB IEC61966-2.1 including HP Printers. It is also the default web standard.

Setting Monitor Profile as your RGB working space in Photoshop is just plain wrong. You are creating a non-linear working environment. The result of that is overall colour corrections or levels changes etc. will affect different areas of any image differently. It may be that it will affect highlights more than midtones or reds more than greens. It is unpredictable!
CH
Col_Hancock
Oct 14, 2005
Len,
When you either use Nvidia Gamma Corrector Or Adobes Gamma, it creates a Monitor Profile. Are you telling me that is all wrong ? Does that mean when i create one or adjust my gamma using either uitlity that i have messed up, i can only assume then it would be me and 100,0000 others. I am not talking about changing Stuff in CS2 here, im talking creating a monitor profile.It is saved in Desktop properties Color Management. It is called Srgb Color profile.
If i had done the same set up with Adobe Gamma, it to no doubt would put an ICC profile in there to. Surely that is not wrong.
L
LenHewitt
Oct 14, 2005
When you create a monitor profile you should save it to a New (and meaningful) name such as "MyMonitor20051013" not over-write the original. That way the date you created the profile is readilly available and you can easiily see when you should re-calibrate.

Monitors change over time and need re-calibration on a regular basis, so adding the ISO date to the filename makes sense.

It hasnt overwritten anything in CS2 im positive<<

Colour profiles are stored in windows\system32\spool\drivers\colour. The sRGB profile that you have changed is that one. That profile is available SYSTEM WIDE for any application to use should it be able to do so. That includes Photoshop.
CH
Col_Hancock
Oct 14, 2005
Ok,
I understand that much,and thanks Len for your patience. unfortunately going through the Nvidia Gamma wizard it doesnt allow you to rename the file, it tells you during the process the ICC will be overwritten, it is sRGB Color Space Profile. I set it up pretty spot on with all 3 RGB sliders, it took an hour and im pretty happy with it, also when in CS2 all the photos i select now open properly with the correct colors, so i can at least work on them without faces appearing orange and pink clothes looking bright red.
If i could id replace my sRGB Profile with an untouched original and start again, do you have a download site i could grab one ?
Thanks again Col .
Funnily enough when i checked the properties of the sRBG in spool/drivers/colour it said it hadnt been modified since 2001 !!!
BB
brent bertram
Oct 14, 2005
Here is the download link for Adobe Profiles < http://www.adobe.com/support/downloads/product.jsp?product=6 2&platform=Windows>

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