Green Screen Photo Layering Template Method

First of all I have CS2
1. What quality image do i need for the template layer

Bob, what resolution is the "cut out" layer? Whatever that is the template layer should be the same, no lower than 200ppi for 7 x 5 and if image size is no problem go to 300.

2. Are there template for sale anywhere

Try Google, there are several sites depending on your "genre".

3. What type of printer is best for this type of work

Can’t comment, all my work is sent to the lab.

4. After I remove the backgroun (magic wand) the edge of the photo is sharp, how can I soften, want to make it look more natural on the teplate (Mountains)

The magic wand can be a bit like a scattergun, not very selective. There are other ways to select an object and remove a background, if you were to use the selection tools, lasso or magnetic, you could apply feathering. Look on the options bar for the "feather" setting box, try 2 or 3 to start with. You could also paint out the green background say in quickmask mode and then apply feathering to the selection via Select>feathering or Alt+Ctrl+D

My favourite for this would be to,
Open your background (template, mountains?) image.
Open your image with the green screen background.
Then with both images on screen ( one behind the other?) drag the green screen image’s "background layer" into the background (mountain) image. You should then have one image with two layers, with the green screen one on top and active (selected)
In the layers palette go to the third icon from the left, a square with a circle in it, this is the add layer mask icon. Click on it to add a layer mask to the top layer.
Make sure your fore and background colours are black and white by hitting D on the keyboard.
Now click on the layer mask thumbnail in the top layer to select it. Hit B to select the brush tool and then start painting over the green background you want to remove. If nothing happens, hit X on the keyboard to reverse the fore and background colours.
If you are doing this correctly you will see the bottom layer’s image start to appear through the top layer as you paint.
Change the brush size to suit the areas you need to paint out and you can also alter the brush’s hardness as you paint around the part of the top layer you want to retain, this will soften the transition. The beauty of this method is that it is non-destructive, nothing is deleted, if you paint over something you wanted to keep, just hit X and paint it back in again.
You can also Ctrl + click on the layer mask icon to load it as a selection to which you can apply more feathering to if required.

Have fun

MH

Mike Hyndman wrote:

First of all I have CS2
1. What quality image do i need for the template layer

Bob, what resolution is the "cut out" layer? Whatever that is the template layer should be the same, no lower than 200ppi for 7 x 5 and if image size is no problem go to 300.

2. Are there template for sale anywhere

Try Google, there are several sites depending on your "genre".

3. What type of printer is best for this type of work

Can’t comment, all my work is sent to the lab.

4. After I remove the backgroun (magic wand) the edge of the photo is sharp, how can I soften, want to make it look more natural on the teplate (Mountains)

The magic wand can be a bit like a scattergun, not very selective. There are other ways to select an object and remove a background, if you were to use the selection tools, lasso or magnetic, you could apply feathering. Look on the options bar for the "feather" setting box, try 2 or 3 to start with. You could also paint out the green background say in quickmask mode and then apply feathering to the selection via Select>feathering or Alt+Ctrl+D
My favourite for this would be to,
Open your background (template, mountains?) image.
Open your image with the green screen background.
Then with both images on screen ( one behind the other?) drag the green screen image’s "background layer" into the background (mountain) image. You should then have one image with two layers, with the green screen one on top and active (selected)
In the layers palette go to the third icon from the left, a square with a circle in it, this is the add layer mask icon. Click on it to add a layer mask to the top layer.
Make sure your fore and background colours are black and white by hitting D on the keyboard.
Now click on the layer mask thumbnail in the top layer to select it. Hit B to select the brush tool and then start painting over the green background you want to remove. If nothing happens, hit X on the keyboard to reverse the fore and background colours.
If you are doing this correctly you will see the bottom layer’s image start to appear through the top layer as you paint.
Change the brush size to suit the areas you need to paint out and you can also alter the brush’s hardness as you paint around the part of the top layer you want to retain, this will soften the transition. The beauty of this method is that it is non-destructive, nothing is deleted, if you paint over something you wanted to keep, just hit X and paint it back in again.
You can also Ctrl + click on the layer mask icon to load it as a selection to which you can apply more feathering to if required.

Have fun

MH

Or you could use the Magic Wand to select all the green and use that selection to make the mask. Then if the edges are to sharp, you could use the blur tool to soften the edges (in the mask), or apply a Gaussian Blur to the mask.

HTH

Or you could use the Magic Wand to select all the green and use that selection to make the mask. Then if the edges are to sharp, you could use the blur tool to soften the edges (in the mask), or apply a Gaussian Blur to the mask.

T,

A problem with this method is that it can leave a coloured fringe around the selection, e,g a white dress selection on the green background would result in a green fringe around the dress, size depending on the amount of blur. (try it) A way around this would be to make the selection as you suggested, then go to Select>Modify>Expand then pick a pixel size half that of the amount of blur (again, trial and error). When you have made the selection, you could then remove it by hitting the Backspace key with white as your foreground colour.

I still prefer feathering the selection or soft brushing around it though Remember, in PS, there is always more than one way to excoriate a feline.

MH

Bob wrote:

I’ve been working with images shot in front of a green screen and I am cutting out the background and copy the image to a template layer then printing them out on a 5 x 7 photo paper, I am looking for tips, pointers and just plain help 🙂

First of all I have CS2
1. What quality image do i need for the template layer
2. Are there template for sale anywhere
3. What type of printer is best for this type of work
4. After I remove the backgroun (magic wand) the edge of the photo is sharp, how can I soften, want to make it look more natural on the teplate (Mountains)

Thank you in advance for any help!
Bob Smith

This is a much trickier and more complicated process than it first looks. I have a green screen that I’ve used in location portrait work. I’m not perfectly happy with it and only use it when I have to.

One of the big problem comes from the placement of the screen and the lighting. If the screen is close to the subject and the lighting hits it, the light will bounce onto the subject. Then you have a green cast on parts of the subject. That is a big pain to remove properly.

Hair is the next big issue. OK, any soft edge subject would have the same problem. The problem is that green will show through hair, the edges of hair, and other fine edges that are smaller than the resolution of your camera. These will show up as semi transparent green. So, if you select all the green with the Magic Wand or some other crude selection device, you will cut out big chunks of hair. This is worse with blond hair.

I usually make a mask from the "a" channel in LAB and get it to the point where that green hair is semi-transparent in the mask. It isn’t perfect and there is a lot of careful manual work left to do.

I was watching the Extras on the Star Wars – Episode III DVD about them making the movie. I was pleased to see that ILM took weeks to do the same thing for each scene. With all there state-of-the-art equipment and expertise way above mine, it is still a lot of work.

Once you get the old background removed, you can put anything back there that you like and your creative abilities will allow. If it looks good to you, go for it. If it looks good to others, you have succeeded.

On my portraits, I typically create my own backgrounds in Photoshop.

Clyde

I usually make a mask from the "a" channel in LAB and get it to the point where that green hair is semi-transparent in the mask. It isn’t perfect and there is a lot of careful manual work left to do.

Clyde,
I’m interested as to why you use LAB mode for the channel mask. I tend to use the channel(s) with most contrast in RGB mode, as per http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/AdvancedMasking.mov. (21meg Quicktime download).

As I work a lot with JPEGs (export) I have not done much with LAB, I have only ever used LAB mode to use the L channel as a base (on occasion) for a B&W image.

MH

Thanks for the info, I have had some good luck with the magic wand. Thanks for the tip on the resolution, Mike I have tried your method which is cool but seems to take longer than just using the magic wand, I need to make this a fairly quick process. I havent had any luck with finding templates for sale. I would be interested in finding out what type of printers folks use, to do onsight green screen images then moving the image over to adobe cut the image out move it ot a template then print the image out.

Thanks Again,
Bob Smith

Thanks for the replies, Thanks for the tip on resolution & feathering, I have been pretty lucky with the magic wand but have had one subject where the green has appeared in the hair which took some time to clean out, Mike I also tried your method and although it is cool it took ma some time, I need to make this a very quick process, my plan is to take this process on site do a green screen shot, move the image into adobe, cut out the background and move it over to the template, save it as a jpg, then print it out.

Thanks Again,
Bob Smith

Mike Hyndman wrote:

I usually make a mask from the "a" channel in LAB and get it to the point where that green hair is semi-transparent in the mask. It isn’t perfect and there is a lot of careful manual work left to do.

Clyde,
I’m interested as to why you use LAB mode for the channel mask. I tend to use the channel(s) with most contrast in RGB mode, as per http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/AdvancedMasking.mov. (21meg Quicktime download).

As I work a lot with JPEGs (export) I have not done much with LAB, I have only ever used LAB mode to use the L channel as a base (on occasion) for a B&W image.

MH

The "a" channel of LAB controls and shows the magenta/green axis. (The "b" is the yellow/blue.) Since the green screen is close to pure green, it is going be defined in the "a" channel. Very little, if any, of the green screen will be defined in the "b" channel. So, by starting with the "a", I have the green color mostly defined for me. Curves or levels will quickly increase the contrast of the mask to give a pretty good cutout.

If you have green in your subject, you will have to do a bit of brush work on your mask. If you have any semi-transparent green, you have a bit of work ahead of you. Actually soft edged subjects aren’t too hard to do; there a lots of ways to blur the edges in a mask.

I was doing this before I understood LAB. I just converted to the different modes and tried to make mask from the channels. It always worked out to be the "a" channel. I figured I had better learn more about LAB. That started me off on a wonderful and powerful colorspace. Now I work in LAB for most of my editing.

If you want to learn more about LAB, there is a new book from Dan Margulis called "Photoshop LAB Color". This is the best book on Photoshop that I’ve ever read. You will learn a lot about LAB and many editing techniques that it affords.

Thanks,
Clyde

Hmm hope im not double posting, I tried to replay and it is not showing up. Thank you very much for the info. The resolution and feathering has help me and starting to learn more. Mike I tried your method and although it is very cool, I need to make this a quicker turn around and maybe it is me but this took me some time.

Bob Smith

Thank you for the info, I’ve replied a number of times but I dont see my posts, so my apologise if this is showing up a number of times. I have had some luck with the magic wand and it seems to work great, how ever I have run into a picture were the green background was in the hair and slow me down. Mike I been playing with your method but it takes a while but I am a newb so this is expected.

Bob Smith

I have tried to reply but my replies are not being posted, Thank you all for your replies.

Bob Smith

If you want to learn more about LAB, there is a new book from Dan Margulis called "Photoshop LAB Color". This is the best book on Photoshop that I’ve ever read. You will learn a lot about LAB and many editing techniques that it affords.

Clyde,
Many thanks for your reply.
Since asking the question I have done some reading up on LAB and have downloaded a couple of chapters of Dan Margulis’s book (if anyone is interested see, http://www.ledet.com/margulis/articles.html ) read them, and consequently ordered the book from Amazon.

Regards

Mike H

Thank Guys for all the comments, I have a lot of work to do. I have tried looking on google but lot of advertisments could not find much for templates but will keep looking. I have had pretty good luck with the magic wand and adjusting the tolerance, thanks or the resolution tip, will keep playing and repost if need more help.

Bob

Bob,

Like all things, it gets quicker with practice 🙂

I am confused as to your use of the word template. I have used a template for a wedding album, which consists of several image layers of differing sized selections, on one page, into each is dropped a picture. This layout, format, framework, template call it what you will then provides the theme or look for the whole album. What you seem to be doing is merely talking an image and putting it onto differing backgrounds, am I correct? If this is so then, with any selection method, particularly Layer Masking, there would be no need to go the green screen (chroma key) route. If the green background is only to make the subject isolation easier, then any colour background that doesn’t introduce a cast would be more suitable and could be preferable, white or a neutral grey for instance.
With regards to selections around hair (notoriously difficult, I have a friend who shoots all his portraits with an umbrella behind his model or them wearing a hat, as its easier to cut around! ) then Clyde’s suggestion for channel masking is the way to go, see
http://av.adobe.com/russellbrown/AdvancedMasking.mov a 21 meg QT movie. Again, this technique would require a bit of midnight oil to master. For background removal techniques see,
http://graphicssoft.about.com/od/photoshop/l/blremovebackg.h tm For Layer Masking, a good one is at
http://www.lunacore.com/photoshop/tutorials/tut003.htm.

regards
MH

Mike,

Thanks, The template is just same image that I will use to copy the green screen image too. We are trying to expand our business where clients would come in and we would take the picture against a chroma key background then cut out and copy the image to various themes, but we have a job at a convention that for 6 hours we will have people come up and we will take their picture against a chroma key background and here is the method I beleive is correct

1. Have adobe open with template/theme
2. Open new image
3. Cut out the background (magic wand / other method)
4. Change Size, Resolution of cutout
5. Copy image to template/theme
6. Flatten and Print

We are expecting to do a couple hundred images, (speed is a factor..lol)
Hope this gives you a better idea, sorry for not explaining in the original post.
Thank you for your help,
Bob Smith

1. Have adobe open with template/theme
2. Open new image
3. Cut out the background (magic wand / other method)
4. Change Size, Resolution of cutout
5. Copy image to template/theme
6. Flatten and Print

We are expecting to do a couple hundred images, (speed is a factor..lol)

Bob,

I like your lol qualifier, usually the word "speed" and "learning PS" are mutually exclusive and never appear in the same sentence.

The idea of the chroma key method, as you are awre, is that you are able to project an image onto your set and it will only affect the background, is this not possible in this case?
You shouldn’t have too much trouble cutting out the heads if they are all "follically challenged", failing that you could make them wear a hat or have a parasol over their shoulder. 😉

I’m glad I don’t have to do it given your time frame.:-) Best wishes
Mike H

Thanks for the confidence, best way to get better at it quickly. Would you agree with these steps or would you do it differetly.

Thanks Again,
Bob Smith

1. Open both image and template
2. Adjust image resolution and size
3. Cut background out
4. Feather
5. Copy image to template
6. Flatten image
7. Save as jpg
8. Print

On 9 Jan 2006 03:41:14 -0800, "Bob" wrote:

Mike,

Thanks, The template is just same image that I will use to copy the green screen image too. We are trying to expand our business where clients would come in and we would take the picture against a chroma key background then cut out and copy the image to various themes, but we have a job at a convention that for 6 hours we will have people come up and we will take their picture against a chroma key background and here is the method I beleive is correct

1. Have adobe open with template/theme
2. Open new image
3. Cut out the background (magic wand / other method)
4. Change Size, Resolution of cutout
5. Copy image to template/theme
6. Flatten and Print

We are expecting to do a couple hundred images, (speed is a factor..lol)
Hope this gives you a better idea, sorry for not explaining in the original post.
Thank you for your help,
Bob Smith

A couple of hundred!?
I hope you have done some practice shots before you commit yourself to this method. Is this a technique you have seen someone else do at a trade show? If so have you asked them how long it takes them to do each shot/ There is some dedicated software like Serious Magic designed for this. I have not tried it.

I am afraid this may become a can of green worms if you go into this job depending on the magic wand to quickly cut the green background out. Have you looked at Russell Brown’s tutorial that was posted here? He show the problems encountered with light colored hair a nd whispy hair. The magic wand is good for quick abd crude cut outs, but I think you and your clients will be dissapointed with the final image if all you do is rely on the magic wand. It is not THAT magic (grin)

Robert Strom

"Bob" wrote in message

Thanks for the confidence, best way to get better at it quickly. Would you agree with these steps or would you do it differetly.
Thanks Again,
Bob Smith

1. Open both image and template
2. Adjust image resolution and size
3. Cut background out
4. Feather
5. Copy image to template
6. Flatten image
7. Save as jpg
8. Print

Bob,

If that works for you it looks OK to me. Maybe feather selection before removing background and saving as a JPG will automatically flatten the image for you as that foremat doesn’t support layers.

Another method (if you could select the background to be removed in one go, using shift key) would be to copy the template image to the clipboard. Then with the selection active on the foreground image, go to Edit>Paste into. This will replace the green with whatever the template image was. Something to try at your leisure. 😉

regards

Mike H

Bob wrote:

Thanks for the confidence, best way to get better at it quickly. Would you agree with these steps or would you do it differetly.
Thanks Again,
Bob Smith

1. Open both image and template
2. Adjust image resolution and size
3. Cut background out
4. Feather
5. Copy image to template
6. Flatten image
7. Save as jpg
8. Print

Sure. That #3 though will cause you a few headaches. You may find yourself trying feathering a number of times during #3. Also, brushes of different sizes and opacities are likely to be used. In fact, I bet you try a whole bunch of different tools and techniques.

Well, I’ve never talked with anyone who found an easy way of doing this. If you find an easy way of doing this, please enlighten the rest of us.

#7? Why save it as JPEG? Why not save it as PSD and skip #6 too? Hey, you may want to change the background again. Of course, you can ALSO save it as JPEG.

Clyde

Thank you for your comments, I have been testing another tool called primatte from digitalanarchy.com which is much better than magic wand but like any tool there is a learning curve and I do use other tools as well but was trying to get some feedback as to what others may use. #7 is so I am not sending a large job to the printer, I may be wrong in this assumtion but both layers are large probaly 3-5 megs a peeice and I didn’t want to send that much data to the printer, so I would save as jpg 80-90 quality reducing the size to 500k to send to the printer, I am testing this out this weekend. The psd is the Mountain template that I don’t want to change, the image from the camera will not be saved, once taken and merged and printed it will be trashed.

I will certainly post anyinfo that has worked for me.
Thanks,
Bob Smith

I will certainly post anyinfo that has worked for me.

you’d better had 😉

MH

Bob wrote:

Thank you for your comments, I have been testing another tool called primatte from digitalanarchy.com which is much better than magic wand but like any tool there is a learning curve and I do use other tools as well but was trying to get some feedback as to what others may use. #7 is so I am not sending a large job to the printer, I may be wrong in this assumtion but both layers are large probaly 3-5 megs a peeice and I didn’t want to send that much data to the printer, so I would save as jpg 80-90 quality reducing the size to 500k to send to the printer, I am testing this out this weekend. The psd is the Mountain template that I don’t want to change, the image from the camera will not be saved, once taken and merged and printed it will be trashed.

I will certainly post anyinfo that has worked for me.
Thanks,
Bob Smith

You seem to live dangerously. Edit, print, and trash. You may be better at this that anyone I’ve ever met. Either that or you have no clients that you have please.

I always try to save my work in a way that lets me go back and change it. If after a year I haven’t changed it, it is considered for trashing. Until then, I or the final user of the picture may want changes and often does.

I think your idea of saving file size sent to the printer is crazy. First, I don’t believe that it significantly saves any size. The printer driver still has to translate the same number of pixels to the same number of dots on the page. JPEG will reduce the number of colors in that set of pixels, but it doesn’t reduce the number of pixels. Each of those pixels still needs converting to the language of the printer.

Second, by converting to JPEG first you just reduce the quality of your picture. You have added artifacts to the picture. Of course, at a setting of 8 or 9 it may or may not be noticeable. Then again, there is no need to do this.

The flattening isn’t done by the printer driver, its done by Photoshop. It doesn’t take long either. Are you really in that big of rush that 1 or 2 seconds it going to matter? If you are, buy a faster printer.

Clyde