Newbie: Help with time estimates

alissa wrote:

I’ve just started my design courses this September. I am progressing ok with the design side, but not as good on the business management side. Part of the last assignment asks us to estimate time required to do certain basic design and I did badly. Can I have some advice from any more experienced designers here?

For example, a one-sided letter-size flyer (no custom photos required, can use stock images), what’s a reasonable time estimate for completion? As I am still learning, I think the rate I work is much slower than an experienced designer. So I explained a bit and answered 2 hours. Apparently, this was "over ambitious". Is that fair?
I have similar problems for like a 11"x17" poster (1-side 4 colours), and a 9"x4.5" postcard (one side graphic 4 colours and one side grey scale mostly text.

Can someone help and give me a very general ball park estimate for these designs? I totally have no idea as I some times spends up to a week for a letter-size flyer for my design assignment, but thought that 35 hours is totally not right!!! (esp. if no custom photo time it required)

Thanks for any help!
Alissa

That’s a good question, Alissa. Some friends and I are starting a communications consulting group and we’re struggling on time estimates. Not to mention what we charge per hour. I’ll be interested in the replies.
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Bill

"alissa" wrote in news:1160431384.768038.77880 @b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

I’ve just started my design courses this September. I am progressing

ok

with the design side, but not as good on the business management side. Part of the last assignment asks us to estimate time required to do certain basic design and I did badly. Can I have some advice from any more experienced designers here?

For example, a one-sided letter-size flyer (no custom photos required, can use stock images), what’s a reasonable time estimate for completion? As I am still learning, I think the rate I work is much slower than an experienced designer. So I explained a bit and answered 2 hours. Apparently, this was "over ambitious". Is that fair?
I have similar problems for like a 11"x17" poster (1-side 4 colours), and a 9"x4.5" postcard (one side graphic 4 colours and one side grey scale mostly text.

Can someone help and give me a very general ball park estimate for these designs? I totally have no idea as I some times spends up to a week for a letter-size flyer for my design assignment, but thought

that

35 hours is totally not right!!! (esp. if no custom photo time it required)

Thanks for any help!
Alissa

The exam question is unrealistic as it’s a very subjective answer.

For your tutor to say 2 hours is over ambitious could very easily be ansewered by ‘ok give me the brief and set your watch and let’s go’

2 hours is a correct answer but so is two weeks, it’s a stupid question.

The actual question is ‘How much did you quote the customer and how much time are you prepared to spend working on this project and can you produce a satifactory result in that time for that quoted fee. The actual time spent is largly irrelevent!

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———————————————————— ———— Learning is not attained by chance, it must be sought for with ardor and attended to with diligence.
———————————————————— ————

Hi, Kingdom, maybe I haven’t been doing my tutor justice. We did have a brief and was given some details on what each project is. And we are allowed to discuss why we came to our conclusion. Don’t know whether it’s still a bad question …!

However, I think they are trying to get us to work with time estimates, and later costings, of course. One major question I have which I haven’t asked yet is – if most average designers in the industry charge 4 hours for some standard work (flyer etc). Then quoting 2 hours may get me the work, but won’t get me far as I would have spent much more time than I’ve billed. But if I charge 6 hours, which I may eventaully ended up spending on the job, I may not get the work as I would be quoting much higher than others. I don’t know, but I always thought that the way we are taught to estimate is not really realistic – like I’ve read a book saying that you should add up all your costs and then "decide" how much you want to make and how much "you" think your work is worth … I may think I want to earn 100K, and I think my work worth that, but nobody would pay me for it. So that’s a very silly approach I think. That’s what I think maybe discussing it in a place where there are real, experienced designer may help.

Does anyone else have any advice on this for me, and Kingdom, you are welcome to comment of course!

Kingdom wrote:

The exam question is unrealistic as it’s a very subjective answer.
For your tutor to say 2 hours is over ambitious could very easily be ansewered by ‘ok give me the brief and set your watch and let’s go’
2 hours is a correct answer but so is two weeks, it’s a stupid question.
The actual question is ‘How much did you quote the customer and how much time are you prepared to spend working on this project and can you produce a satifactory result in that time for that quoted fee. The actual time spent is largly irrelevent!

—
———————————————————— ———— Learning is not attained by chance, it must be sought for with ardor and attended to with diligence.
———————————————————— ————

"alissa" wrote in news:1160521724.020458.199410 @b28g2000cwb.googlegroups.com:

Hi, Kingdom, maybe I haven’t been doing my tutor justice. We did have

a

brief and was given some details on what each project is. And we are allowed to discuss why we came to our conclusion. Don’t know whether it’s still a bad question …!

However, I think they are trying to get us to work with time

estimates,

and later costings, of course. One major question I have which I haven’t asked yet is – if most average designers in the industry charge 4 hours for some standard work (flyer etc). Then quoting 2

hours

may get me the work, but won’t get me far as I would have spent much more time than I’ve billed. But if I charge 6 hours, which I may eventaully ended up spending on the job, I may not get the work as I would be quoting much higher than others. I don’t know, but I always thought that the way we are taught to estimate is not really realistic – like I’ve read a book saying that you should add up all your costs and then "decide" how much you want to make and how much "you" think your work is worth … I may think I want to earn 100K, and I think my work worth that, but nobody would pay me for it. So that’s a very

silly

approach I think. That’s what I think maybe discussing it in a place where there are real, experienced designer may help.

Does anyone else have any advice on this for me, and Kingdom, you are welcome to comment of course!

Kingdom wrote:

The exam question is unrealistic as it’s a very subjective answer.
For your tutor to say 2 hours is over ambitious could very easily be ansewered by ‘ok give me the brief and set your watch and let’s go’
2 hours is a correct answer but so is two weeks, it’s a stupid

question.

The actual question is ‘How much did you quote the customer and how

much

time are you prepared to spend working on this project and can you produce a satifactory result in that time for that quoted fee. The actual time spent is largly irrelevent!

—

———————————————————— ————

Learning is not attained by chance, it must be sought for with ardor

and

attended to with diligence.

———————————————————— ————

Their are no hard and fast rulues, designers have to more flexable than ever and much more important than your rates is your portfolio.

With the internet Design is now truly global and while most work is still given to local or nationl design firms that’s all going to change as clients begin to get comfortable with ordering from places like India and China where they can work for a fraction of what you can and we can’t fault their work either, much of it is first rate stuff.

Take a look at some of the freelance sites and search through design stuff like logos and covers, art wrok etc. If you look hard enough you’ll see middle men too, buying from 3rd world and selling to 1st world.

—
———————————————————— ———— Learning is not attained by chance, it must be sought for with ardor and attended to with diligence.
———————————————————— ————

It is true, that there isn’t a right or wrong answer to this question. I have done many jobs as a freelance artist and have gotten the raw end of the deal because I quoted too little and then got taken advantage of. I have also lost out on jobs becuase I quoted the client too high of a price. Most of the time I decide if it is really a project that I WANT to do. If it isn’t, then I determine how difficult it would be and how much of my time I might be giving away for free. Then I price it from there. I don’t like to do logos, so I charge no less than $750, that way if the client is really serious about having me do it. Strangly most of my work comes from logos. 🙂

Other than just the amount of time it will take, there are two other considerations I always use.

1. How many changes will I have to make to the original design.
2. How much is your competition charging.
—

Hank Henniger
Dellas Graphics
835 Canal Street
Syracuse, NY 13210
315.424.7861 ext.19 (direct)
315.474.4641 (main phone)
315.474.4650 (fax
"alissa" wrote in message

Hi, Kingdom, maybe I haven’t been doing my tutor justice. We did have a brief and was given some details on what each project is. And we are allowed to discuss why we came to our conclusion. Don’t know whether it’s still a bad question …!

However, I think they are trying to get us to work with time estimates, and later costings, of course. One major question I have which I haven’t asked yet is – if most average designers in the industry charge 4 hours for some standard work (flyer etc). Then quoting 2 hours may get me the work, but won’t get me far as I would have spent much more time than I’ve billed. But if I charge 6 hours, which I may eventaully ended up spending on the job, I may not get the work as I would be quoting much higher than others. I don’t know, but I always thought that the way we are taught to estimate is not really realistic – like I’ve read a book saying that you should add up all your costs and then "decide" how much you want to make and how much "you" think your work is worth … I may think I want to earn 100K, and I think my work worth that, but nobody would pay me for it. So that’s a very silly approach I think. That’s what I think maybe discussing it in a place where there are real, experienced designer may help.

Does anyone else have any advice on this for me, and Kingdom, you are welcome to comment of course!

Kingdom wrote:

The exam question is unrealistic as it’s a very subjective answer.
For your tutor to say 2 hours is over ambitious could very easily be ansewered by ‘ok give me the brief and set your watch and let’s go’
2 hours is a correct answer but so is two weeks, it’s a stupid question.
The actual question is ‘How much did you quote the customer and how much time are you prepared to spend working on this project and can you produce a satifactory result in that time for that quoted fee. The actual time spent is largly irrelevent!

—
———————————————————— ———— Learning is not attained by chance, it must be sought for with ardor and attended to with diligence.
———————————————————— ————