PS CS Save for Web bug ?

Povl H. Pedersen wrote:

I normally work in Adobe RGB color space, since it is larger, and there is no reason to limit colors befor I am finished working with the picture.

Now, I found out that if I save a picture for web, it loses its vibrance, and becomes boring looking. Thought it has something to do with the Windows average crap monitor. Well, false.
What happens is, that the image is saved for web in the
current color space, here Adobe RGB, and NOT in the sRGB web color space. I consider this a bug.

A bug is something that a program is supposed to do according to the author, but doesn’t do because of a mistake he/she made. Or is supposed NOT to do, but does. This is not a bug if Adobe intended it to be like this.

If I open such a picture (without colorspace info), and assigns sRGB it looks boring, if I assign it Adobe RGB profile, it is perfect again.

That is logical. The image *is* still in AdobeRGB, so it only looks good if you assign AdobeRGB profile to it.

Only way to make the web version look good is to
Image, Mode, Convert to profile, sRGB IEC…

That is what Actions are for. Make an Action that converts to sRGB and then invokes the "Save for the web" command. Assign a key to the action so that one key stroke will get you there. That ‘s even faster than only go to the menu "Save for web".

And I can also read it back in, and everything works.

So I consider it a Bad Thing ™ that Adobe forgot to
convert to sRGB (or at least have an option for it).

I agree. "Save for Web" should convert automatically (with an option to turn it off).

—
Johan W. Elzenga johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.nl/

"Johan W. Elzenga" wrote in message
SNIP

I agree. "Save for Web" should convert automatically (with an option to turn it off).

Try Right-Mouse-Button clicking on the preview in the Save for Web dialog window. The most logical options are there…

Bart

Bart van der Wolf wrote:

"Johan W. Elzenga" wrote in message
SNIP

I agree. "Save for Web" should convert automatically (with an option to turn it off).

Try Right-Mouse-Button clicking on the preview in the Save for Web dialog window. The most logical options are there…

Yes, there are a lot of options (it’s CNTR-click on a Macintosh), but "Convert to sRGB color space" isn’t one of them (at least not with Photoshop CS for Macintosh)… Unless "Standard Windows color" or "Standard Macintosh color" is sRGB, but I doubt that. I can use standard Macintosh colors and still have AdobeRGB color space.

—
Johan W. Elzenga johan<<at>>johanfoto.nl Editor / Photographer http://www.johanfoto.nl/

Now, I found out that if I save a picture for web, it loses its vibrance, and becomes boring looking. Thought it has something to do with the Windows average crap monitor. Well, false.

When you save an mage using Save for Web, it is saved without a color profile. Web browsers and other applications do not, by default, understand color profiles or color management.

What gets saved with Save for Web is just a bunch of pixels, no colorspace or color profile information. So it makes sense that if you have assigned a color profile,a nd you want to see how that image looks using that profile, you must assign that profile again–the information concerning the original color space no longer exists once you have used Save for Web.

In th specific case of creating images for the Web, i would suggest that you are likely to be better off if you view the image without color management enabled (use view->proof setup->monitor RGB); this is how Web browsers will "see" the image. Unfortunately, the current state of the Web is not one where you can reasonably expect a color-managed workflow to work for you.

—
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On 2004-02-23, Johan W. Elzenga wrote:

Bart van der Wolf wrote:

"Johan W. Elzenga" wrote in message
SNIP

I agree. "Save for Web" should convert automatically (with an option to turn it off).

Try Right-Mouse-Button clicking on the preview in the Save for Web dialog window. The most logical options are there…

Yes, there are a lot of options (it’s CNTR-click on a Macintosh), but "Convert to sRGB color space" isn’t one of them (at least not with Photoshop CS for Macintosh)… Unless "Standard Windows color" or "Standard Macintosh color" is sRGB, but I doubt that. I can use standard Macintosh colors and still have AdobeRGB color space.

None of the options are sRGB or gives the same result. So there is a bug in Photoshop CS. Better use my 90 days support to report it.

"Tacit" wrote in message
[snip]

In th specific case of creating images for the Web, i would suggest that

you

are likely to be better off if you view the image without color management enabled (use view->proof setup->monitor RGB); this is how Web browsers

will

"see" the image.

[snip]

And even then, this is only semi-accurate since few monitors out there are even calibrated. However, don’t you think you’re better off converting the file to sRGB first (and then using Monitor RGB to proof) since that is the color space both the XP and Mac OS’s assume? That way, at least, you’d avoid the gamut clipping problems if the file is originally tagged in ARGB98…or so it seems to me.

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From: "Povl H. Pedersen"

None of the options are sRGB or gives the same result. So there is a bug in Photoshop CS.

I don’t think this is a bug at all … there are times you want to embed the profile (like sending images to a magazine editor) so the person receiving the jpeg can view it correctly with a color managed application. Save for Web gives you the option of embedding the profile.

If you’re designing for the web just convert to sRGB and review it as Tacit said (with color management turned off) before converting to a jpeg.

Bill

On 2004-02-23, Tacit wrote:

Now, I found out that if I save a picture for web, it loses its vibrance, and becomes boring looking. Thought it has something to do with the Windows average crap monitor. Well, false.

When you save an mage using Save for Web, it is saved without a color profile. Web browsers and other applications do not, by default, understand color profiles or color management.

I completely understand that. This is why I would expect the Save for Web to convert the picture to a color model that gives the best possible picture on an average screen. I know the image is profile-less, so it must be converted first.

What gets saved with Save for Web is just a bunch of pixels, no colorspace or color profile information. So it makes sense that if you have assigned a color profile,a nd you want to see how that image looks using that profile, you must assign that profile again–the information concerning the original color space no longer exists once you have used Save for Web.

I know that. WHich is why I would have the option to get a WYSIWYG converter button, or have it as default in Save for Web.

In th specific case of creating images for the Web, i would suggest that you are likely to be better off if you view the image without color management enabled (use view->proof setup->monitor RGB); this is how Web browsers will "see" the image. Unfortunately, the current state of the Web is not one where you can reasonably expect a color-managed workflow to work for you.

If I convert to sRGB, I get the same picture in Photoshop and Internet Explorer. So PS should convert it to sRGB, which Adobe do suggest is the web color space for JPEGs.

Povl H. Pedersen wrote:

I know that. WHich is why I would have the option to get a WYSIWYG converter button, or have it as default in Save for Web.

In Save for Web there is a small triangle above the right corner of the image preview.When you click this there is an option on the flyout menu to "Use Document Colour Profile".This should do what you want.

Mick

When replying
make the river
a pond.

On 2004-02-25, Cosmick wrote:

Povl H. Pedersen wrote:

I know that. WHich is why I would have the option to get a WYSIWYG converter button, or have it as default in Save for Web.

In Save for Web there is a small triangle above the right corner of the image preview.When you click this there is an option on the flyout menu to "Use Document Colour Profile".This should do what you want.

Doesn’t affect the actual colors saved.

Povl H. Pedersen wrote:

Doesn’t affect the actual colors saved.

Your right.Sorry,I forgot that I had temporarily changed my working space to sRGB,which
explains why my saved image looked the same in my browser. 🙂

Mick

When replying
make the river
a pond.