the best way to scan a neg into photoshop

PT
Posted By
PATRICIA_TOWNSEND
Dec 4, 2006
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I was taught to scan a neg at the highest setting. I did that and it is really grainy.The scan is 6400 dpi.I’m using Epson 2450 photo scanner.The scanner also has twain and silverfast drivers to use to scan with.Is one better than the other to use? Should i select auto correct neg or should i deselect it.Default is select.
thank you,
Patricia

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John Joslin
Dec 4, 2006
The Epson scan program should be fine. Some people recommend Silverfast but I never saw any advantage.

If it’s really grainy that is in the emulsion of the negative and the better the scan the more you will see the grain. Many scanner programs have a correction for the type of dye used in colour negatives if that’s what you are scanning.

You would need to post a portion of the scan at 100% showing the "grain" (via ImageShack or Pixentral) to see if it is grain or scanner noise.
RK
Rob_Keijzer
Dec 4, 2006
It is indeed always best to scan at the highest optical resolution and bit depth.

About the grain, don’t forget that at 6400 ppi, and a 100% view on screen, you have sort of a microbe’s view on the silver clusters. A circumstance in which it’s hard to judge the film grain at all.

Scanner noise would be most visible in the highest density parts (the darkest on the neg, so the lightest on the reversed positive).

I always scan B/W negatives in colour (chance to minimise defects post scan), so then scanner noise would be chromatic.

Silverfast can make multiple scans of the same neg, thus being able to average an image and take into account the differences between scans and cancel those out (scanner noise would be non-coherent between scans, all the things in the image, including grain would be coherent)

Rob
T
Talker
Dec 4, 2006
Just curious here Rob, but wouldn’t it be better to scan the negative at a resolution that when resized to the size picture she ultimately wants (let’s say an 8 x 10 picture), would result in that image being 8 x 10 at 300 ppi?
Most of the 35 mm slides/negatives I’ve scanned have been scanned at about 2850 ppi, so that when I resized them (with resampling turned off), the resulting image is approximately 8 inches by 10 inches, and a little over 300 ppi, which I resize to 300 ppi.
If I were to scan the image at 4000 dpi, or use the flatbed and scan it at 5400 dpi, in order to resize it to 8 x 10 at 300 ppi, I’d have to throw away a lot of pixels, resulting in a softer image. When I’m not sure what the person wants as their final size, I’ll do several scans, each at different ppi, one at 4000, one at about 3000, and sometimes one that will result in a 5 x 7 picture at 300 ppi.
Do you scan negatives at the highest resolution, just in case the person wants a large final picture? I’m just curious, that’s all.(maybe I’m doing it all wrong…<g>)

On Mon, 4 Dec 2006 04:28:12 -0800, wrote:

It is indeed always best to scan at the highest optical resolution and bit depth.
About the grain, don’t forget that at 6400 ppi, and a 100% view on screen, you have sort of a microbe’s view on the silver clusters. A circumstance in which it’s hard to judge the film grain at all.

Scanner noise would be most visible in the highest density parts (the darkest on the neg, so the lightest on the reversed positive).

I always scan B/W negatives in colour (chance to minimise defects post scan), so then scanner noise would be chromatic.

Silverfast can make multiple scans of the same neg, thus being able to average an image and take into account the differences between scans and cancel those out (scanner noise would be non-coherent between scans, all the things in the image, including grain would be coherent)

Rob
PT
PATRICIA_TOWNSEND
Dec 5, 2006
< http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=19BVsru6EbFMWPp5Hf ZNZQHWF2z2H80> Here is one that was scanned at 1800 dpi and it is bad also.Can u tell me what the problem it by looking if u need for me to make another scan at 6400 i will but i deleted them.I’m not pleased with the results of my processed neg, when i get them back from lab they have like lint or dust on negs and always new faces.The first frame or two will be really messed up and i’m not sure if it is somthing that im doing or the lab.I plan on trying a different lab but have to drive 100 miles.
what is your thought on this?
RK
Rob_Keijzer
Dec 5, 2006
I don’t know how you scan this. It looks as heavy Jpeg compression. Can you scan from the Import menu in PS? That way the image is pulled in as pixels in memory, not as a saved file.

Or did you compress this for Save For Web?

Rob
PF
Peter_Figen
Dec 5, 2006
Color negs almost never contain any useful information above 1600 ppi, so scanning at 6400 ppi, which is interpolated on your Epson is a waste of both scanning time and disc space. The maximum non-interpolated resolution of your scanner is 2400 ppi, and even that figure will be optimistic. Flatbed scanners are also not well suited to any type of transparent media. Their real resolution is less than claimed and their ability to "see" into the highlights and shadows of your film is always grossly overstated.

Typically with a flatbed scanner, you want to scan at the the optical resolution, which is 2400 and the interpolate up or down in Photoshop. If grain or noise is still an issue, then Neat Image or Noise Ninja can do wonders at reducing the perception of grain. Drum scanners, offer the abiltiy to vary the scanning aperture to help smooth the grain, but this is not available on any flatbed or slide scanner.
T
Talker
Dec 6, 2006
Hi Peter. In an earlier post I commented on this thread, and I was still wondering….wouldn’t it be better to scan at a resolution that when you resize it to the size of the picture you want to print out, like an 8×10 for example, that you end up with 300 dpi? So if I were to scan a 35mm negative, which I measured to be roughly .95 inches high by 1.45 inches wide, I would need to scan it at around 2070 ppi, so that when I resized it, the result would be an image 10 inches by 6.55 inches at 300 dpi.( a 35mm negative doesn’t come out to exactly 8×10 inches.)
I use 300 ppi as an end result since that’s what most inkjets require to get a decent print.(well, okay, you can also get by with 240, but I like 300 for my inkjet and 301 for my dye sub.) Although I do use a film scanner for most of my negative and slide scans, my flatbed also does a good job,(a Canon 9950F) I’m no expert on all of this, which is why I’m asking, just to make sure that I’ve been doing this the right way.<g>

Talker

On Mon, 4 Dec 2006 19:10:21 -0800, wrote:

Color negs almost never contain any useful information above 1600 ppi, so scanning at 6400 ppi, which is interpolated on your Epson is a waste of both scanning time and disc space. The maximum non-interpolated resolution of your scanner is 2400 ppi, and even that figure will be optimistic. Flatbed scanners are also not well suited to any type of transparent media. Their real resolution is less than claimed and their ability to "see" into the highlights and shadows of your film is always grossly overstated.

Typically with a flatbed scanner, you want to scan at the the optical resolution, which is 2400 and the interpolate up or down in Photoshop. If grain or noise is still an issue, then Neat Image or Noise Ninja can do wonders at reducing the perception of grain. Drum scanners, offer the abiltiy to vary the scanning aperture to help smooth the grain, but this is not available on any flatbed or slide scanner.
PT
PATRICIA_TOWNSEND
Dec 6, 2006
Rob, I did scan this using pscs file, import then silverfast. I did save it as a jpeg but i normally save tiff. I will try again saving tiff.
I also had the neg flipped when scanning, does that matter as far as quality.

Thanks for your help,
Patricia
PT
PATRICIA_TOWNSEND
Dec 6, 2006
Peter i wasnt aware of that.I have waisted lots of time scanning. Thank you for the info.
Patricia
RK
Rob_Keijzer
Dec 6, 2006
I also had the neg flipped when scanning, does that matter as far as quality.

Yes very much. the scanner autofocusses by bouncing light off the emulsion. This will probably be off if the film is inserted upside down.

Use the highest optical (not interpolated) resolution, calibrate the scanner with a good IT-8 target, set all Silverfast controls to neutral, disable any sharpening, colour correction, contrast enhancements etc.

Make the image look good in PS, not in the scanner software. Maybe it seems a must to set black and white points in the scanner software, but I learned that this is done merely in the software, not in the scanner hardware.

Since this is the case, it’s better done in ps.

Rob
S
Smitty
Dec 29, 2006
One of the reasons I quit using print film. The process is "dirty" in most labs. I find slide film easier to scan and it is usually much cleaner. Smitty

wrote in message
< http://www.pixentral.com/show.php?picture=19BVsru6EbFMWPp5Hf ZNZQHWF2z2H80> Here is one that was scanned at 1800 dpi and it is bad also.Can u tell me what the problem it by looking if u need for me to make another scan at 6400 i will but i deleted them.I’m not pleased with the results of my processed neg, when i get them back from lab they have like lint or dust on negs and always new faces.The first frame or two will be really messed up and i’m not sure if it is somthing that im doing or the lab.I plan on trying a different lab but have to drive 100 miles.
what is your thought on this?

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