<sarcasm>
nobody but "Film, video, and multimedia professionals, Graphic and web designers using 3D and motion, Manufacturing professionals, Medical professionals, Architects and engineers (AEC) and Scientific researchers" will need the extended version people. these are not the droids you’re looking for move along, move along.
</sarcasm>
but if you DO think you need them, the upgrade will cost you 150-160 bux more than the OTHER upgrade.
but NObody (especially poor wittle photogs and 2d designers) will need those cwazy new fangled features right? right? yea, right.
Actually some of the tools in the extended version are very useful for still photography. That is the problem. I think Adobe did it on purpose.
Robert
It does seem a bit sneaky to mix a great feature in with a load of stuff for another area of work,but i dont know all thats available either for photogs. it seems they are getting a little more calculating with some of the recent releases.
You could always get the Premium Design Suite.
Maybe if i hit the lottery, i may consider that.
Photoshop Premium is not for rich photographers
Photoshop Primium is to make photographers rich!
(Slight paraphrase on a very ancient Sinar add).
Looks like I may have to spring for extended.
Actually some of the tools in the extended version are very useful for still photography. That is the problem. I think Adobe did it on purpose.
<sarcasm again>no. surely not rob. that would mean i was right all along and everyone who screamed i didn’t need the extended version and they shouldn’t have to pay for those ‘extra extended features’ even though we’re all in the full photoshop upgrade path, were wrong. </sa>
of course they changed the rules mid stream by using a marketing ploy. i complained (WAAAAAAAY before shipping) and was told to shut up. i WISH more people would have listened to those of us who saw it coming when we had a chance to influence marketing.
baaaaaaaaa.
Too many people are still under the impression that Adobe is still the great little company that cares about it’s customers. Nowadays it probably cares a little less about the customers than before, and a little more about the ideas coming from the marketing dept. which took over the reins sometime around the first CS release.
My thoughts exactly the whole "Creative Suite" idea was pure Marketing language (ie counter-productive pseudo-babble) and served only to confuse the majority of users.
"I WISH more people would have listened to those of us who saw it coming when we had a chance to influence marketing."
That’s a good one Dave. I almost fell of my chair laughing at that. You actually think we customers can influence marketing? If that was the case we would still be waiting for Lightroom as it should never have shipped the way it is now.
Thanks for the laugh, that brightened my day!
Robert
You actually think we customers can influence marketing
before release? sure. after? very very doubtful.
btw, i ordered my copy of extended this morning. and they charged me an extra 12 bux for a manual!
(i know i know… baaa… baaa… we shouldn’t haaaaave to pay for a maaaaaanual if we don’t waaaaaant it. <rolling eyes>)
You actually think we customers can influence marketing
I don’t think even the Adobe engineers can influence those marketing whizz-kids.
That’s the trouble with big companies. 🙁
Move to Europe
I’ll stick with England but it’s just as bad here!
Now Dave, eveidence suggests that before or after release we have little effect on marketing. Look at Lightroom, if we had any effect on Marketing we would have gotten beta 5 to test and LR wouldn’t have been release well before it was ready. Thinking we customers have any influence of marketing choices by any large company is delusional.
Robert
Hey John! England is in Europe!
Thinking we customers have any influence of marketing choices by any large company is delusional.
maybe, but denial and resistance like i faced here when i was saying what they were up to by splitting the versions does nothing. and i started saying it when the first "leaks" hinted at multiple versions. at least a year ahead of this release. had more people spoken up then instead of saying "shut up until the release. you don’t know anything until they announce it" it MIGHT have been different. there was certainly enough time to convince the bean counters back then.
at least by complaining they have an idea they’re pissing some people off and can account for that in their spreadsheets. by going baa baa baa you tell the marketeers "the market can take more pain before we start to lose more money than customers. split the versions again and charge X% more for cs4."
I work in corporate america. i see it every single day. <shrug>
I must add though, I’ve got that tingly "new software on the way" feeling now that my order for extended is in. As much as the marketing people piss me off, I LOVE new versions of my favorite software.
So as much as I rail against how uncaring the corporate side of Adobe has become over the last several years, I have to add my sincere kudos for the technical people who make the software happen. Especially the ones who show up in here (‘tween releases) to help us figure out how to best play with our new toys!
So to the engineers, programmers, designers, project managers and testers: Cheers mates! Hoping you have a bug free release!
And tell the bosses your bonuses better reflect the smacking the bean counters are giving us sheep!
dave
Extended comes with bragging rights, too.
Seriously though, I also think its a confusing potential marketing decision to split up PS like this. But, there is a premium (pun intended!) to pay for expanding into video and 3D markets. Perhaps, just perhaps, some of these features will spill into the normal version next time around?
Extended comes with bragging rights, too.
and bitching rights! XD
Perhaps, just perhaps, some of these features will spill into the normal version next time around?
that’ll just piss off those of us who ponied up for the extended edition (EE) this time even more.
What till next version, Dave, when there will be a Super Enhanced version with more features than Extended.
🙂
I really doubt most people would have had a problem with the "splitting" of the programs had Adobe made sure that the stuff in the Extended version had no possible use for still photographers. They didn’t and it does. Had it had no possible use then I see no problem with them offering two versions. Why pay for stuff you will never use and not really enjoy tripping over. For those that want and need those features paying a higher price for them I think is fair.
But, it didn’t work out this way and now I wonder what else is in the extended version that can be put to creative use for still photographers. Also, as someone just getting in to video I have to say the new video features are… interesting.
All I can say is <shrug>!
Robert
Yah, new versions are like Cocain, makes you feel all funny in the head. Makes putting up with computers and their hassles worth it. Sort of… well not really… but it does make me happy… until I get depressed from looking at the credit card bill… then I get sad…
Robert
Yah, that Super Enhanced version will come with Photoshop. The stupid Standard Edition will be a box with a registration card, a paint brush, some duct-tape (for masking) and a crayon (blue for boys, pink for girls) and two swizzle sticks for making like a walrace! 🙂
We had all better stand back then. Dave will really hit the fan. Though I have a suggestion Dave, do it without the swizzle sticks. It will make it easier for people to take you seriously. :0
Robert
A few people talk about Adobe being a big company. And that’s certainly true when you compare the size we now are to the size we used to be when I started 10+ years ago, let alone when John and Chuck first got things started. With a bigger size come benefits and drawbacks. On the drawback side is the negative perception customers get about the company you work for. It’s not easy to overcome that, but I know many people on the Photoshop team who try.
To give you a clearer picture of things for Photoshop at least, we’re a pretty small team when it comes down to it. The Dev and QA team combined number roughly 60-70 people. That has not grown much over the years. And while the size of the team has not grown, the functionality that we have provided to users has.
We knew that the new Extended strategy would cause a few ripples — any changes that involve a higher cost usually do. And when the decision-making process is a black box, especially at a "big company", it’s easy for customers to associate evil or conspiratorial motives to those decisions. I can honestly say we didn’t try to make a split between Photoshop and Extended that would hurt those who have traditionally used Photoshop for things like digital photography. We wanted to provided features in Extended that would extend Photoshop’s reach to specific, targeted markets. And to support the extra resources required to deliver those features, we of course had to charge more.
Well, none of this is necessarily going to change the hearts and minds of people, but I at least wanted to provide a glimpse of things from the inside. And now back to some more discussions about conspiracies and big company greed… it’s a lot sexier to talk about anyway. 😉
Thanks for that David. I was one of the unpopular ones who tried to defend the "Extended" philosophy but got shouted down. Unfortunately the demarcation is a bit blurred and it does now appear that a few "Extended" features are of interest to the photographic part of your users.
Regarding the size of the Adobe team, the Dev and QA teams may not have grown much over the years but I bet the Sales, Marketing and Management numbers have! (and have apparently gone down in quality!)
but got shouted down.
WHAT?!! YOU were the one who was supported John! I remember only myself and Kieth yelling from the rooftops this this was a "Bad Thing" coming down the road. You were safely sheltered withing the herd! 😛 😉
Thanks for the response David. I still don’t agree with the extended philosophy, but I can understand how the marketing decision was made. Definately "by committee" <
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Design_by_committee>. 🙂 :Þ
it does now appear that a few "Extended" features are of interest to the photographic part of your users
So it looks like the solution would be for the photographic users to make a "new feature" request asking that those features be moved to CS3 Basic in the next version. Should be a no-brainer, since the code is already written and tested.
Ok, since it is what it is, if I decide to update to Standard now, can I update the update to Extended for the additional $150? I particularly like the noise control feature. I already have a similar routine, and applying it to even one pair of images works quite well. In fact, even using it on ISO 100 images improves them to the point that sharpening becomes much better. Why, I don’t know, since I have only had the idea a week ago and took a bit of cut and fill to get there. So, I can imagine that the Stack version is much more facile.
If I only had Mat Lab!
if I decide to update to Standard now, can I update the update to Extended for the additional $150?
nar. yer screwed mate. 😉
I can offer this tidbit from my own experience: I ordered CS3 Standard about 3 days ago. I had seen some of the tutes on the stack features, but wasn’t convinced about their real usefulness. Over the last few days, I changed my mind and decided that I should have ordered Extended.
Got on the phone to the Adobe store to cancel my original order, and "upgrade" to Extended. The very nice woman there said that my original order had already shipped, but that I could easily send it back, under their "30-day, no-hassle" guarantee. Sweet, so I ordered Extended.
Today, my original order of Regular arrived. I again got on the phone to Adobe to get my return authorization. The very nice man told me that it wouldn’t be a problem. In fact, since the software is valued at less than $800, I didn’t even have to send it back, just promise to destroy it. He directed me to a PDF file on the Adobe site, which I downloaded, filled out and faxed back to them. (You have to fill in the serial number of the copy you’re destroying, so even if you don’t actually destroy it, it’s pretty much useless.)
Bottom line: It looks to me like if you order the Standard version, you have 30 days to decide that you might have screwed up, and you’d rather pony up for Extended.
Sounds good.
Actually, I may go the other way, that is, order Extended and if it really offers little, trade it back.
Sounds like a plan. Maybe those devious bean counters left us a loophole after all. <g>
same 30 day refund/exchange policy they’ve always had. they musta missed axing it. 😉
David, not wishing to sling brickbats or anything, but a couple of rejoinders from my prespective:
any changes that involve a higher cost usually do.
The principle changes that irk me are (a) feature loss (in this case, IR’s export to animated SWF), and (b) bloat.
Yes, bloat. Do features useful for photographers (stacks) need to be rolled in with niche features for the sciences? Does Photoshop need to become a Bodypaint 3D wannabe, or After Effects Lite? For those of contemplating the Premium Suite for ID and Flash, do we really need 3D paining or a poor man’s motion paint?
I guess the question the team really should’ve asked is not ‘can we?’ or ‘how can we?’, but ‘should we? would this benefit our userbase?’
I can’t help but think that those specialist niches are already pretty well served by specialist software.
Something just dawned on me…but maybe I’m slow.
Given how one can get a free upgrade to CS3 if they’ve bought CS2 since the CS3 release date, then does that mean they’ve now got a noticeably less expensive way to purchase CS3 than going directly with a CS3 purchase? I say that, because I was in a local CompUSA that is going out of business and software titles are at 40% off if I remember correctly. I’m pretty sure I saw Photoshop CS2 there, but didn’t notice if it was an upgrade or full license version. But, if an upgrade, then a 40% discount would drop it down to nearly $100….now that would be a great price indeed even for PS CS3 standard!
That also makes me wonder about if one who has a CS2 license already, can still buy a new copy and be eligible for the free upgrade?
Gears are spinning now! 😉
Daryl,
I think that offer expired the moment CS3 shipped.
Rob
After carefully comparing the two versions I think I choose the one in the middle.
