I need a new computer. Right now I’m running CS2, but I’m sure I’ll upgrade to CS3 at some point. I use ID, Photoshop, Illustrator (plus Quark and a few other apps) on a daily basis.
What’s the best video card out there now for Photoshop work? I don’t usually work on images much larger than 100 MB, but it could happen. I don’t do any 3D stuff.
Right now I have a Matrox Parhelia with 128 MB of RAM, but I suspect I could use something with more oomph. I’m using a 21" Mitsubishi SpectraView 1000, but I was thinking about getting one of those big wide flat panel monitors.
I’ve only got 1.5 GB of RAM in this PC — definitely not enough — what should I get in the new one? 4 GB? More?
Basically I am looking for the computer of my dreams. I want something very fast and powerful that can handle multitasking, and I don’t want to skimp on components or RAM and then have to swap or add more later.
In addition to video card and RAM recommendations, if anyone knows a good source (in the U.S.) for a high-end PC that can run InDesign, Photoshop, Illustrator, Acrobat, Quark, a couple of web browsers, Eudora, and stream Internet radio all at the same time, please let me know.
Learn how to optimize Photoshop for maximum speed, troubleshoot common issues, and keep your projects organized so that you can work faster than ever before!
The video card can be very simple. The document size doesn’t matter, the screen size and number of colours do. No need for an expensive 3D game machine.
…a high-end PC that can run InDesign, Photoshop, Illustrator, Acrobat, Quark, a couple of web browsers, Eudora, and stream Internet radio all at the same time, please let me know
If that’s the way you’re going to work you’ll spend a lot of time asking questions in the forums.
Nobody runs a machine like that. when working on bread-and-butter jobs, close all browsers, open only the relevant applications, and turn on the radio or something like that.
The video card can be very simple. The document size doesn’t matter,
the screen size and number of colours do. No need for an expensive 3D game machine.<<
Screen size is 21" now, but I want a bigger monitor. I have to keep moving palettes out of the way, especially in InDesign. I checked the current display settings, and the color setting is "Highest (32 bit)" and the screen resolution is 1280 x 1024. I can’t find the setting with the number of colors. But I believe it’s in the millions.
I run many, if not all, of those applications on this machine at the same time. Although I usually don’t stream Internet radio when everything else is running, because I don’t want to push my luck.
But I do run ID, Quark, PS, one web browser (Opera), and Eudora pretty much all the time. Truly! (Illustrator and a second browser only when needed.) If performance gets really sluggish, I shut down one or two apps. But I’ve always kept multiple applications running at the same time.
I’ve always kept multiple applications running at the same time.
While that practice won’t hurt, with Windows Prefetch, any application will relaunch in 2 or 3 seconds so why use up resources? It can only slow things down.
as far as colour goes, 32bit is about as good as it gets althought I have a memory of th parhelias having a PS plugin to exceed that.
As far as monitors go your almost better of getting 2 mid size monitors which is heaps cheeper than 1 huge one, I move most of my pallets to the second mon leave the primary as work area.
Graphics cards wont make a big diff(or any) to 2d layout or illustrator work type work. Even PS wont see a huge dif. The Parhelia is a awsome card for colour so I’d be sticking with that unless you have a need for some 3d grunt.
As far as apps go you might want to consider a KVM switch and use your old machine to stream the radio and browse, freeing up resources for work. If you network the drives unless your copying and pasting between pgms then shaing files isn’t an issue.
I don’t think getting a second monitor is a viable option. I don’t have space for it. The Mitsubishi is a big, heavy behemoth that takes up a lot of room.
I’ve never heard of KVM switches, so that’s something else I’ll need to look into. I don’t have space for a second computer in here, though. I do have a laptop at the far edge of my desk, but I don’t know if that would work with the KVM.
I do think the Parhelia is probably fine, but I don’t think upgrading my current computer is an option. I just checked the mobo specs and I can only add 512MB of RAM — it maxes out at 2 GB. And I really think 2GB is probably marginal. So I’d need to replace the mobo and the processors (I have dual processors but the speed is 2.00 GHz and I want faster processors).
Doing that kind of upgrade "in-house" isn’t an option. I can’t do it myself and the last time my husband tried to replace the processors (on a previous computer) he shorted out something and I ended up having to buy more replacement components. He can do simple component replacements (hard drives, video card, etc.) but anything complicated is risky.
I don’t know anyone locally who could do the upgrade, and anyway I can’t be without my computer for more than one day (not voluntarily, anyway).
I really think that since I need a new mobo and processors, it would make more sense to buy a new computer. The problem is finding a source — a place that builds machines with the components I need. I could buy one with a lesser video card and swap in the Parhelia. (My husband will inherit my old computer and he doesn’t need a high-end video card.)
Windows XP monitors the files that are used when the computer starts and when you start applications. By monitoring these files, Windows XP can prefetch them. Prefetching data is the process whereby data that is expected to be requested is read ahead into the cache. Prefetching boot files and applications decreases the time needed to start Windows XP and start applications.
The first thing Marlene said was "I need a new computer". Ten answers and nobody gave her any recommendations. If money is no object, a high end Dell, HP, or even Alienware will build to your specifications. 4 gigs of ram is plenty, 2 is minimum. Any newer graphics card with 256 mgs of memory or more preferably an ATI or Nvidia. And a fast processor, AMD or Intel dual core. Hope that helps. Lee
On Tue, 12 Jun 2007 23:15:48 -0700, wrote:
I need a new computer. Right now I’m running CS2, but I’m sure I’ll upgrade to CS3 at some point. I use ID, Photoshop, Illustrator (plus Quark and a few other apps) on a daily basis.
What’s the best video card out there now for Photoshop work? I don’t usually work on images much larger than 100 MB, but it could happen. I don’t do any 3D stuff.
Right now I have a Matrox Parhelia with 128 MB of RAM, but I suspect I could use something with more oomph. I’m using a 21" Mitsubishi SpectraView 1000, but I was thinking about getting one of those big wide flat panel monitors.
I’ve only got 1.5 GB of RAM in this PC — definitely not enough — what should I get in the new one? 4 GB? More?
Basically I am looking for the computer of my dreams. I want something very fast and powerful that can handle multitasking, and I don’t want to skimp on components or RAM and then have to swap or add more later.
In addition to video card and RAM recommendations, if anyone knows a good source (in the U.S.) for a high-end PC that can run InDesign, Photoshop, Illustrator, Acrobat, Quark, a couple of web browsers, Eudora, and stream Internet radio all at the same time, please let me know.
I never tried, but the only way to see accurately if it helps would be to time the opening of each application with a stop watch with the prefetch folder 1. full, 2. empty, and 3. after a start of each application. What do you call slow? PS CS2 took about 20 seconds for me* and Photoshop CS3 takes about 4 seconds!. (First time after a cold start is a bit slower.)
* No networked drives or peripherals; "Updates " disabled.
Marlene, There is nothing wrong with running all those applications at the same time. All you need is lots of ram and a good processor. The new quad core processors do an amazing job at multitasking. I suggest getting at least 4 gigabytes of RAM and a video card with at LEAST 256 MB of RAM. The newer cards do better 3D which you don’t seem to need, but they also will allow you to run higher resolutions on your 21" monitor (like 1200×1600), and when you get a big 30" flat screen you’re going to need a card with 256 or even maybe 512M of RAM in order to get good resolution. I would recommend endpcnoise.com for a good company that has reasonable prices, makes nice quiet computers, and can build what you want. Just make sure you tell them you want the quad core processor. They are very nice and they tech guy answers the phone right away, you don’t get put on a voice menu hold or have to wait for hours. Also the coolest thing is that you can hardly hear your computer instead of it sounding like a vacuume cleaner!
Marlene, There is nothing wrong with running all those applications at the same time. All you need is lots of ram and a good processor. The new quad core processors do an amazing job at multitasking. I suggest getting at least 4 gigabytes of RAM and a video card with at LEAST 256 MB of RAM. The newer cards do better 3D which you don’t seem to need, but they also will allow you to run higher resolutions on your 21" monitor (like 1200×1600), and when you get a big 30" flat screen you’re going to need a card with 256 or even maybe 512M of RAM in order to get good resolution. I would recommend endpcnoise.com for a good company that has reasonable prices, makes nice quiet computers, and can build what you want. Just make sure you tell them you want the quad core processor. They are very nice and they tech guy answers the phone right away, you don’t get put on a voice menu hold or have to wait for hours. Also the coolest thing is that you can hardly hear your computer instead of it sounding like a vacuume cleaner!
So endpcnoise.com builds systems from scratch? I’ll check them out. I’m primarily concerned with quality/stability/reliability, but having a quieter computer would certainly be a plus.
I wonder if I can upgrade my Parhelia (add more RAM) or if the card I’ve got (with 128 MB) isn’t upgradable?
So endpcnoise.com builds systems from scratch? I’ll check them out. I’m primarily concerned with quality/stability/reliability, but having a quieter computer would certainly be a plus.
I wonder if I can upgrade my Parhelia (add more RAM) or if the card I’ve got (with 128 MB) isn’t upgradable?
Marlene, Yes, they build systems from scratch. No, you can not add memory to your Parahelia card but they do offer a 256MB card if you want to stick with Matrox. I had always heard that Matrox made the clearest cards and used them for many years. The last few years I’ve used both ATI and nVidia cards and honestly, I can’t see a difference (and I’m the pickiest person in the world). The cards are so good nowdays that you don’t really have to worry. You will be very happy with an ATI or nVidia.
I just built a new system that runs primarly PS CS3 for me. I had a P4 dual core D830 3.2Ghz with 2GB of RAM. The RAM was the bottle nexk. Probelm is trying to go to 4GB on many system will limit you with 32-bit OS as some of that top GB is reserved for ROM and PICe mapping. SO I buitl a new Intel based E6600 (easily over clocked to 3.0GHz) with 4GB of PC 6400 Corsair XMS2 and I am running XP 64-bit so I can used the full 4GB. Now PS CS3 will only use up to 3GB of that, but it is nice. System is quick and PS CS3 while more boated than CS2 runs good. Adobe needs to go 64-bit and learn how to optimize code and I think CS4 will be sweet, by (2 more years) then I’ll have a 8GB+ RAM system. so PS will hopefully hardly ever have to hit the disk. Currently the AMD vs. Intel war is on the Intel corner unless your app is heavily memory bound. Every benchmark I have read recently that shows PS CS performance shows it better ont he Intel platform today. I suspect when AMD ships their new CPUs later this year that will swing back their way since a their memory architecture is far superior. I am using an ASUS P5B-Deluxe MB. I run the E6600 at 333 FSB x 9 to give me 3GHz. I replaced stock HSF with a Thermaltake CL-P0370 cooler for under $50 to get the overclocking easily. If you have dual monitors you can get a cheal nVidia 6600 based card for $50 that can drive 2 DVI ports. I run 2 6600 cards independently to make colro management easier. Watch the newer video cards they say thinsg liek Turbo Memory and such and have very little real ram and then utilize the system RAM. I’m not sure the 64-bit drivers support that. the nVidia 6600 is a great inexpensive card that performas well and mine has 128MB. I use them in all my systems, they are getting harder to find as they are discontinued
on lower memory systems (like my home one) can be slower jsut because of the memory footprint, spends more time swapping out to disk, even though much of the functionality is computationally more efficent.
The 6800’s are rapidly dropping in price and give you better performance, althogh you wont see much difference in PS. Then again I’m hanging out to see some affordable Dx10 cards…..and the shaders that go along with them.
I was using a Matrox card, but found out that it only has one hardware lookup table (LUT). When using 2 monitors, one calibration profile will be applied to both monitors.
For that reason, after some looking, I found that the ATI X1600 series supports two hardware LUT’s.
Incidentally, Matrox and Nvidia at the time had no cards with dual LUT’s.
Hmmm, I wonder if my Parhelia has more than one LUT? I only use monitor so it doesn’t really matter. But I think the Parhelia is supposed to run two or three. I could probably fit three monitors on my desk if I got rid of the telephone, printer, and scanners. <g>
With the way things are changing in both operating systems and software when I upgraded to Vista I needed to upgrade my video card. Having only owned Matrox cards I of course looked for a Matrox card to upgrade to. Unfortunatly Matrox has gone down the crapper in the video card area. They simply haven’t kept up and so I found what they had to offer unacceptable. So I started looking. I ended up with two ATI Radeon 1650 Pro PCI-E cards with 512MB of memory (I have three monitors connected, I don’t do games so didn’t do the crossfire thing).
I suggest that you look for a card with at least 512MB of memory. You may or may not need it right now, but it is always best to plan ahead. I got my two 1650’s from BestBuy for $156.00 each. At that price I see no reason to go for less memory. When/if you move to Vista you will need more memory and I figure this is only the start of the need for more video memory.
Don’t confuse the ability of a video card to support two monitors (which most seem to now), with the ability to apply two LUTs so that both monitors can be calibrated independently.
If you use the second monitor for palettes for example you don’t need colour calibration for that.
I’ve been doing more research … I called endpcnoise.com and got their suggestions. The guy told me I don’t need a 512 MB video card even to run a 30" monitor. He said their 256 MB card (which has an nVidia chip (7950GT?) would work fine.
Anyway, the PC prices out at $4,902.95 from endpcnoise.com. I could save money by opting for slower hard drives, but I really don’t want to do that.
But then I starting looking elsewhere for a monitor (they don’t sell the big flat 30" monitors) I couldn’t find the 30" Sony I was lusting after a couple of years ago. Has Sony quit making computer monitors??
I get the impression that I need to pick out a monitor before I buy a new system, to make sure I get the right kind of video card (with the right kind — and number) of connectors.
In addition to video card and RAM recommendations, if anyone knows a good source (in the U.S.) for a high-end PC that can run InDesign, Photoshop, Illustrator, Acrobat, Quark, a couple of web browsers, Eudora, and stream Internet radio all at the same time, please let me know.
Core 2 Quad processor (2.66 GHz) 4 GB RAM 700 W power supply nVidia 7950GT video (256 MB) 2 150-GB SATA 10K drives (WD Raptors) and a bunch of other stuff that’s not big-ticket (although it all adds up)
A similar sysem from IBM (Intellistation) was comparable in price, but their configuration options were really annoying. For example, they list several video cards, but not one of them included the amount of RAM! I’d have to go check each model number to find out, and I don’t have that much time on my hands. The IBM also has a 400W power supply, and that seems kind of minimal to me.
My husband spec’ed out a Dell (although I am really not planning to get a Dell, dude) and the prices were lower (I think it was $5653 but that included a 30" monitor, which is probably about $1,400 itself). But I’d pay the extra money (to another company) to get a better system.
I have one or two more websites to check, and will compare their prices against the others.
A barebones system is not an option. We tried that before, and it wasn’t pretty. I am not technical at all, and my husband can only handle the simplest stuff like adding or replacing drives.
If you really want/need to multi-task RAM and processor intensive applications then you don’t want a PC. Why would you be running the Adobe collection on a PC in the first place? Get a Mac, it’s a no-brainer. The absolute best for least amount of maintenance,plus excellent security, no adware/spyware, easy multi-tasking, and the absolute top of the heap for video/photo manipulation/rendering. PCs just get slower and slower with the addition of more applications and the accumulation of spyware/adware, not to mention the regular maintenance they require.
I’m a repair/upgrade/hardware/software tech and have been at it for over 16 years now. I service and am knowledgeable in both PCs and Macs and I heartily recommend them, especially now with the fast Intel processors and because they are the least expensive computer, feature for feature, out there. The new iMac aluminum/glass 20" 2 ghz Intel Core 2 Duo with 250GB hard drive cannot be beat for $1199 COMPLETE. No box or tower, just an ultra-thin, very nice looking LCD computer combination that is a terrific entry-level machine. Cheaper to buy, cheaper to maintain, runs Mac AND Windows at lightning speed–what else can you want for the price?
Folks, I’m not a fanatic or Mac "freak," but I’ve weighed the evidence and the INDEPENDENT consumer studies and Mac rises to the top in a vast majority of the cases. I’ve worked deep inside probably all the brands of computers out there and the only ones I can say are truly designed from the inside out are Apple’s. The quality is exceptional and the overall satisfaction of Mac customers is consistently better than all the competition. Now, with the Intel processors and the ability to run Windows as fast or faster than their PC counterparts, it is a simple win-win situation and YES, Macs are cheaper than any other computer, feature for feature. It doesn’t matter that you don’t agree, really, because facts are not a matter of opinion. If independent firms with no vested interest in the outcome find, after careful research, that when you buy a Macbook (for example) and then purchase an identically equipped, same speed laptop from another manufacturer, the Mac will work out cheaper in most cases. Of course, there are promotions and exceptions, but by and large, those be the facts.
The odd thing is that I saw Mac users do the same type of name calling and scoffing about 13 or 14 years ago, when Macs had very little software, were slow, and expensive. I personally own a very quick PC that I built for gaming and I have a Dell monitor (a MUCH better deal than the Apple Cinema Display and the same LCD to boot, plus a 5 year warranty, adjustable stand, and built in media reader–vs. the Apple’s 1 year warranty, non-adjustable stand, and no media reader). My laptop is a brand new MacBook Pro (had one that was 6 months old but sold it–for the same price I PAID–to buy the new, improved version and my graphics machine is a dual processor 2 Ghz G5 with 4.5 Gigs o’ RAM. Very nice. I use the PC once or twice a week to play games. Internet is solely done with the Mac–no spyware, viruses, or other malware to speak of and very little maintenance.
One picture that best illustrates the difference and is worth a great deal more than me going on and on is this one. Check it out. It’s an eye opener, especially when the Mac is $1199. It is here, on my web space: <http://members.cox.net/lazarusco/dellimac.jpg>
Dear John, No platform war and I just couldn’t help it with the photo. It is not a photo that is misrepresenting either Dell or the iMac. Different designs and form factors. I realize that this is the Windows forum, but she was clearly asking too much from her PC and a Mac would have definitely had an edge in that arena. The PCs are not really the problem, it is the operating system that is fundamentally flawed and that is not spin, opinion, or wishful thinking. I wish it weren’t that way because I spend my work week solving problems for people using Microsoft products.
Adobe products, on the other hand, are just fine and the programs themselves are fundamentally identical, so we can agree on that, being in this forum. No passe’ flaming platform wars and no foolishness. Thanks for pointing out what you did. You were right about the wars being out of place here. Eventually, no matter what, the platform with more problems will fade away and others will take its place. There’s huge technological changes in the offing in the next 2 years and that should help get the proverbial ball rolling. Take care, Jeff
aside from the pic is a complete misrepresentation (compare a tower intel Mac to a PC….Hmmm very similar) Imac’s arn’t exactly powerhouses when it comes to design, but do have more than their fair share of heat issues. A better comparison is to a laptop.
On quality, we wont forget the burning batteries or the laptops that heat shrunk the keyboards? or the run of G5’s with faulty heat probes that prevented them from booting (had one and it was a pain to get fixed)
On speed and price. for the base model at $1700AU
equivelent pc
Proc (2.1 Ghz, 1066mhz FSB 4mB cache) $270, the Imac is 800Mzh FSB Memory 1 Gig $110 Motheboard ABIT AB9-WF $195 (includes wifi +raid + FW etc.) Hdd (250GB) $85 Pioneer DVR-112D $48 (know to be used in apples for some time) RADEON HD 2400 XT 256 $109 (imac only has 128mb model) Acer 20′ monitor – $310.00 (similar specs) Case with powersupply $200 OS – vista ultimate $250
total $1577
leaving me around $130 for a keyboard and mouse……
Price is not a mac’s strong point. The above specs leave pleanty of room for expansion (particularly raid) and has many more features including more FW and usb ports as well as SPdif audio etc.
I love using Mac’s at work but dont get delusional particularly on a PC forum
Now, I respectfully tried to get out of this quietly, but you folks just won’t let YOUR myths go. You cannot compare a SELF-BUILT PC to a MAC. That is Apples and Oranges (no pun intended) because one is proprietary and pre-built while the other is hand-picked components off the shelf, so to speak. No comparison. If you’re not a builder of PCs and not knowledgeable, then a Mac is a good option. I have worked with thousands and thousands of people who use and enjoy both types, but Mac is unique in that it is a platform and manufacturer. Also, the number of people who’ve been converted just by sitting at one is amazing. I’ve yet to see a Mac user sit down at a PC and say, "Wow, this is what I was missing!" "I love the way this system works and I really enjoy scanning for malware once or twice a week!" I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but empirically I have yet to verify it.
Price USED to be a Mac’s weak point, but now that just isn’t true. Take the iMac, for example–it is NOT a laptop, by any means and the "heat issues" were a problem over a year ago (2 designs revisions ago). It has a decent video card, good amount of storage, a terrific screen, and a very uncluttered footprint. How can you spin a photograph of two desktops? It is simply two companies’ ideas of what a desktop is, that’s all, that’s it. No misleading copy, no weird photo manipulation, nothing–just a picture.
I am in a unique situation where I work with PCs in large numbers and with Macs in less, but still substantial numbers. I maintain, repair, and administer both types, with Windows servers and with Xserves. Whenever I ask a vehement opponent of Macs or someone who says something that’s dated, they turn out to have little knowledge of Macs, how they work, and what they’re capable of.
The EXACT SAME THING happens with the Mac fools who pontificate how impervious the Mac’s security is and how they are the best without exception. That’s bunk. There are tons of places where PCs excel and much of the Mac’s security has to do with it not being a target. One thing that was said that summed it up for me was that the industry does not support Macs but Macs support the industry. Macs have made the move to be 100% compatible with PCs and they are very close to that mark, while still maintaining their identity. That is the best of both worlds. Go to Dell.com and configure a basic desktop with the same features as a basic iMac. See what’s cheaper. Of course, you can get a Celeron, slow AMD, or a 1.5Ghz Core Duo for cheap, but once again, Apples and Oranges…
sorry. you’re wrong. my 700 home built system will run rings around any mac costing less than 3000. nvidia 7600gtx, core2duo e6600 on intel 975bx 2 gig 667mhz ddr2 ram.
I priced comparable macs when building this system about 6 months ago. my figures are within 6 mos recent.
if you want to talk operating systmes fine, i’d love for apple to start selling osx to the rest of the intel world without forcing us to purchase their over priced junk, but get real man. or please don’t. go over to the mac forum and preach to the zombies converted for a bit.
Yes, you really can – – unless you are trying to make rules for a pointless debate.
If you’re … not knowledgeable, then a Mac is a good option.
Well said. 🙂 Unfortunately, many of us know how to build our computers (is it really that hard to configure a system these days on manufacturer’s web sites?… even Apple lets you configure your machine).
Since Apple now uses the same hardware as Windows, it is difficult to find any major price differences in either platform. Apple used to price their systems above others but they have been coming down since the hardware is now the same. Many will compare Apple prices with Dell’s simply because they do not realize that there are other (and cheaper) PC vendors than Dell.
I use Mac and PC. I really don’t care which one is running Photoshop and cannot imagine why anyone would. Photoshop is Photoshop.
Well I just built my new PC for $4600, a comparable MAC would have cost $6200 (costed on the Apple site), but my video card and RAM had better specs. I also have more room for expansion.
As a user of several operating systems, I agree that Windows is not the best OS – – but its issues are easily addressed. I trust Marlene knows enough to run antivirus software and to stay away from listening to CDs from Sony Music.
I am religious about Apple products to the point where I have devoted myself full-time to working with them.
Folks,I’m not a fanatic or Mac "freak," but I’ve weighed the evidence and the INDEPENDENT consumer studies and Mac rises to the top in a vast majority of the cases. I’ve worked deep inside probably all the brands of computers out there and the only ones I can say are truly designed from the inside out are Apple’s.
I’ve never seen so much name-calling and unsubstantiated claims! I’m the one that said that you can’t compare a self-built PC to a ready-built Mac. Different things. Religion? Come on now. I haven’t confessed my religion to any platform or company. I am a rational person who meticulously weighs the qualities of things BEFORE I make a decision instead of coming to a conclusion and trying to make the facts fit that conclusion. It’s really sad when people reprint what you said just to make fun of it. Get a life.
I stated earlier and Jim reiterated it, that the programs are the same, Photoshop is Photoshop. I think that for the average user, the Mac gives you a ready-made machine with a superior operating system and that is enough to sway many people. You don’t have to be at home with techspeak and software use to use a Mac quite effectively. The PC is not the problem, although many manufacturers use the cheapest products available, and many PCs have incredible speed and would be superior in certain tasks, however, there are tasks and applications where the Mac excels, just as the PC does. The elephant in the room is Microsoft and WindowsXP/Vista. Microsoft has truly bad business practices, if that matters to you (it does me) and their operating systems are fraught with security problems and their greed-based decision to include Internet Exploder while excluding other browsers led to IE becoming part of the system, opening a large security vulnerability. See this article, linked from Microsuck: <http://microsuck.com/content/whatsbad.shtml>
The resource-hungry Vista is being rejected by thousands of PC folks and they actually are selling pre-configured PCs with 512Megs of RAM and Vista! Have fun when you actually try to DO something with that one. If we can’t agree that Vista is an overpriced, bloated excuse for an OS, then we truly cannot have any type of exchange. I’m still amazed at the hostility of you dorks (name-calling) when I have explicitly said that my allegiance is not blind and I try to keep an open mind, unlike a vast majority of the commenters. I just correctly stated that Marlene should own a Mac if she wants to multi-task the way she says. In my observations of high-end PCs and equivalent Macs, there is a slight edge to the Mac. Add in the slow down inevitably caused by spyware/malware and Windows’ sluggishness when more applications are added and used. Granted this slow down can be alleviated with the running of numerous anti-spyware programs and a good anti-virus, like NOD32. The amount of time and resources that this takes up is a pain and adds up. Again, this is NOT the fault of the PC, but solely due to the OS.
In the end, any computer is only as good as its maker constructs it to be. The OS, on the other hand, is a bad joke when it comes to Windoze. Ubuntu Linux, Unix, OS X, are all fine (and priced free or reasonably). Be well,all. JJW
I am a rational person who meticulously weighs the qualities of things BEFORE I make a decision instead of coming to a conclusion and trying to make the facts fit that conclusion
I am religious about Apple products to the point where I have devoted myself full-time to working with them.
Dave you got me! I should have chosen my words better and prefaced that statement with, after more than 10 years working with both pcs and macs, as well as gathering a decent understanding of computer theory, repair, etc, I came to the point where I started a Mac-specializing consulting firm. In that capacity, as the owner of my company, I have come to the rational conclusion that Macs are, by and large, the best overall pre-built machine with the most trouble-free OS. That is NOT an Earth-shattering conclusion, neither is it in any way uninformed. The choice of the word "religious" was a mistake because in a religion, its adherents believe without verification or rationale. It is purely faith, a proponent of which I am most assuredly NOT. My conclusions, if not my word choice, were/are sound ones despite what you would want to believe.
As for video card, I love the ATI X800 XT, even though I’m usually an Nvidia fan. For AGP, this card screams. Speaking of video cards, the new MacBook Pro (that I just ordered) has a very sweet NVIDIA GeForce 8600M GT graphics with 256MB SDRAM. Gotta say that, for the price, the MacBook Pro is a hefty machine ($2299 with student discount) that maxes out at 4Gigs of DDR2 667 RAM and the new 2.4Ghz Santa Rosa Intel Centrino. Combine that with some amazing colors from the LED backlit display and it is one major laptop for the money. No more plugs. Just own it now, so it feels better to sing its praises. I have a slamming 3.2 Pentium IV machine that I am tweaking right now as well and my main graphics machine is the dual processor 2Ghz G5 with 4.5Gigs of RAM and 980Gigs internal storage. Combine that with a video card that performs like crap (ATI 9650 PRO 256MB) and it’s time for a new flashed NVIDIA agp card.
THat’s it, Dave. You did get me and I admit that I was sloppy in my word choice, but I am very meticulous about my opinions and I still stand by a great deal of what I said. I wouldn’t have said anything if I thought it would incur the cowardly wrath of the great unwashed masses. C’est la vie! Jeff
You cannot compare a SELF-BUILT PC to a MAC… because one is proprietary and pre-built while the other is hand-picked components off the shelf, so to speak. No comparison.
So, a hand built PC is not a good basis for comparison because the builder is able to "hand pick" components, even though the Mac is "designed from the inside out." Seems we PCers are buying our clothes off the rack while the Mac is tailor made… I’m having trouble seeing how the Mac could possibly be at a disadvantage here.
If you’re not a builder of PCs and not knowledgeable, then a Mac is a good option.
So, to be fair, I guess you view the Mac as the King of the pre-builts. It may well be, but I am a poor one to judge. I haven’t bought a pre-built since 1995. As far as the OS goes, I wouldn’t mind having the Mac OS on my own hardware just to see how it’s come along. Goodness knows that (agreeing with you here) I’ll shun Vista until MS fixes it or XP is no longer viable.
I’ve yet to see a Mac user sit down at a PC and say, "Wow, this is what I was missing!" "I love the way this system works and I really enjoy scanning for malware once or twice a week!" I’m not saying it doesn’t happen, but empirically I have yet to verify it.
Consider it verified. I used Macs in design school and it was no picnic. No, they never had a virus, but that was about the only bright spot. Admittedly, Apple *was* bottoming out in those years. Still, when I had the opportunity to invest in my own computers, I went the PC route because that’s what the other 90+% of the world was using. It was a little bumpy the first couple of years or so, but I never considered dumping my gear for anything with an Apple on it. If MS follows Vista with another lemon, then that may change in the next few years. Or not. We shall see what we shall see.
It’s working – with some quirks to work out. For example, the ALT key is not behaving well with the clone tool.
The nice thing is that I have some sort of optional experimental UI running that makes all my windows rubbery when I drag them around. It is quite the diversion. I look forward to Mac and Windows OS emulating it someday. 🙂
I’m usually an Nvidia fan
How do you make yourself so small? (ahhhh, geek humor!)
To get back to your original post, the system specs you mention are good. This system should do everything you want and then some. I have a lowly Dell GX620 with 1GB of RAM and I concurrently run Notes, Windows Explorer, Internet Explorer, Photoshop and InDesign. I also open and close Illustrator, Bridge, Nero and other apps as I need them. Performance is occassionally slow but they all run and they don’t crash.
Your system should be able to do the same only lots faster and hopefully more reliably. My only recommendation would be to consider WinXP rather than Vista as your OS. You can always upgrade to Vista later when you (or it) are ready.
Vista will be good in a bit, I’d still give it another 6 month to give everyone time to catch up. Besides the main reason I want vista is DX10, and most of the graphics cards out there, while they are technically compliant their performance sucks.
As for IMacs, they are designed for Lusers… people who find plugging in a keyboard difficult. Give me a tower anyday and an OS which doesn’t tell me how I want to work…
As for IMacs, they are designed for Lusers… people who find plugging in a keyboard difficult. Give me a tower anyday and an OS which doesn’t tell me how I want to work…
I find it amusing that some people are such Lusers that they need a vendor to slap a label on a product to help them differentiate computers that are marketed as ‘Pro’ or not. iMacs run Photoshop quite well. The choice of computer is up to one’s own workflow/workload.
Shouldn’t have bitten on this one, I just get frustrated when people try and compare 2 completely different products and say one is better than another.
I have no doubt that Imacs arn’t good machines (we’ve got 2 at work), but I find their lack of storage and upgrade path problematic akin to the issues faced with a laptop/desktop replacment machine without the portability advantage.
Marlene, If you’re thinking of a "big wide" screen lcd monitor, make sure that your card has a dual-lin DVI output and at least 256Megs of RAM. This is not a tall order. Although most of the RAM is wasted for you on the Open GL and DirectX texture storage, you can’t really have too much, especially if you want to upgrade the monitor. I’ve found the 24" Dell 2407wfp to be an INCREDIBLE monitor for the price. The Apple Cinema Display is terrific at 23", but comes with a paltry 1 year warranty and no adjustable stand (you have to adjust your HEAD!). I purchased the Dell from CompuDirect.com with a 5 year Dell Warranty for $589. Not bad.
As for the video card, I would get the PNY GeForce 6600 256MB AGP 8X (if you have AGP). It has the full dual link DVI out and a TV out. It has a maximum resolution of 2048 X 1536, which is all you need for a large LCD. The card will not do wonders for your photoshop performance, but it will help. It is only $89 at Mwave here:
You didn’t mention what will make the biggest impact on your performance and that’s whether you have dual processors or a dual-core processor. The AMDs that came out before the core duos were very fast, but the Intels edged them out and now hold the lead. The Xeon duals and quads that are in the new Mac Pro towers are powerhouses as well.
Brett, Apple has dealt with the most of the issues your brought up. Sure, their upgrade path is not the best with the iMac, but they’ve included just about everything so that in the average workplace, as workstations they don’t usually get upgraded in the first place. The hard drive and RAM can be easily updated by a competent tech.
As far as compatibility, with Windows and Windows programs, they run it natively, so tha’t not an issue. The storage is more than adequate with 250Gigs standard and firewire 800 and 2 firewire 400s as well as USB2’s. The firewire is much faster than the USB 2.0 is and is very suited to external drives. Easier to expand than putting a slower USB External on the PC. Not bad for the money, especially when it comes to spyware and other malware. Take care, Jeff
PS No folks, I’m not starting that platform war again so relax.
Jim, Of course, PCs use Firewire (as Apple INVENTED both USB and Firewire, I’d think they would be entitled to call it whatever they like). Microsoft patented the RIGHT CLICK!
You’re absolutely right about PCs, but most pre-built PCs don’t come with a firewire interface while every Mac does. I have one client with about 60 pcs and only about 5 or 6 actually have a solitary firewire output.
Edison invented a light bulb but I am not obligated to buy bulbs from GE.
I was able to get a USB2 card for my Windows PC before Apple offered it in their line.
I’m not discounting any particular platform. I just find it more ideal to promote a computer system on its merits than trying to make the other platform look bad based on misinformation or withheld information.
I have used Windows and Mac equally and I have never had viruses, malware or spyware affect either of my own systems. The only virus I encountered on an employer’s computer was the autostart worm before the year 2000. That, of course, was a Mac virus which spread easily because Mac users were lulled to think they had an immune operating system.
Jim, If you use Windows 2000 or XP on the web, then you’ve gotten spyware. It is ubiquitous and only a matter of a year or less before Apple is in the crosshairs, a victim of its own newfound popularity. I don’t think I’ve EVER made a platform look bad by withholding info or misleading anyone. I didn’t make the decision to take the Windoze OS, which worked very well for what it was designed for: to work in a protected environment with professionally maitained dynamic firewalls, and take it to the people as a "personal" OS with all its ports open by default. If you don’t know computers (and most people don’t), Windows (XP Home especially is a piece of garbage) acts like flypaper collecting spyware as your surf the net.
Case in point: Took a new HD out of the static bag the other night, formatted it, and installed a clean copy of XP. Needed to do the updates and opted to do so manually instead of using the automatic update. The ONLY site I went to was Microsoft.com and I ran Spybot by mistake while installing it. It revealed 7 pieces of malware! That was courtesy of Microsoft!! You can minimize infections with Zone Alarm Pro or other good firewall or anti-spyware programs (if you know enough to update them at least once per week), but if you’re on the net at home, then you’re going to get the stuff (or spend an inordinate amount of time preventing it).
I take machines and software on their merits, not on folklore or some personal sense of loyalty. If it doesn’t perform and there’s something better out there, I will get it and continue to evaluate the market. I’ve never seen a group of people so defensive about an OS that comes from a nasty business (microsoft) that sucks up smaller creative companies and never comes up with any original contributions of its own. The Windows GUI was stolen from Apple, DOS was rewritten UNIX, and their business practices are criminal. Why would anyone support that, especially when their product is far from stellar? I am not a sheep and I don’t use something just because others do. I use something for its utility and ease of use, period. I, too, work with both platforms equally except I make it my business to know BOTH very well, but most of the PC folks don’t have a clue how Mac works and what its capabilities are. The same holds true for Mac techs with PCs. I think proficiency and/or knowledge should be demonstrated before opinions can be tossed around like peas in a food fight. After 18 years, I have a pretty good idea of what’s out there, but I still have a great deal to learn.
It is all very well advising caution but you take your alarmist attitude to such an extreme that it becomes a joke.
And it makes everything else you say lose credibility.
We are way off the subject of Marlene’s new computer and I suggest you take your folk tales off to some geek forum where they’ll appreciate your wild logic and disregard of the facts.
it makes everything else you say lose credibility.
Seconded.
Further, SpyBot is not the most credible malware detector; it indicates that harmless cookies and bookmarks are threats. Plus, the claim that you, a self-professed expert, ran SB by mistake while installing it strikes me as either disingenuous or illustrative that your level of expertise is somewhat below that of my 7 year old niece.
Re: "DOS was rewritten UNIX", your insane, now if you’d said "NT was rewritten UNIX" you’d be right.
Re: "If you use Windows 2000 or XP on the web, then you’ve gotten spyware." your insane, I’ve never gotten real spyware. I agree with Howard about SpyBot, anything MS is spyware to them. They even include files used by SystemSuite as a ‘threat’, it was my virus scanner.
If you use Windows 2000 or XP on the web, then you’ve gotten spyware.
You are absurd. Cut it out. You are embarrassing those of us that use Mac.
If you note that Mac is due to have a mess of spyware as well, why are you critical of another OS?
if you know enough to update them at least once per week
Some people pull their heads from their bums and use auto-updates. I can’t recall the last time I had to manually update definitions.
Windoze OS
I see now we are so lame we have do resort to being juvenile with names. Grow up. You are being infinitely silly. If you do not know how to maintain a Windows computer to keep it free of spyware and viruses, go to the Mac forum <http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx/.ee6b362/>. You are of little use here.
Oh please, Jim, don’t bore me with your accusations of being juvenile. Windoze is a well-known term for the platform, not something I made up. Pejorative terms are not necessarily juvenile and to attack the semantics of a writer is the last vestige of defense for the desperate. I made a mistake with the UNIX thing because of the hour. DOS wasn’t original, it was based on QDOS which was based on CP/M. Ooops.
Mac is not a victim of spyware, despite having been around as long. Spyware is not easy for the average user to keep at bay. Of course, I can keep my systems virus and spyware free, but I keep going back to the typical user, which apparently you cannot identify with. As long as you can keep your OS clean, it’s a great product, right?
If you were reading, I was talking about Spyware defs, not virus defs. Some apps due have the auto-update capability, but ad-aware and Spybot do not. BTW, I’m sure that the folks at Safer Networking would love to hear your pejorative (look it up) comments about Spybot thinking anything MS is spyware. It gives you the choice and back up your registry in case you take out something you need.
Why doesn’t the government use Windows (windoze)? THey use it in their workstations but Windows is too unstable and has a history of sneakiness to allow it to handle the databases of the CIA, NSA, and the FBI, among a few. Before you jump off and throw a tantrum about me saying sneakiness, I will illustrate one of the many illegal "sneaky" things that MS has done. In Microsoft Office there is a communication command built in to the code that allows your information to be transmitted, without your knowledge or consent, to Microsoft. see < http://www.stepwise.com/Articles/Editorial/2002-04-01.01.htm l>
If you took the time to read some of the material on Microsuck and numerous other places, maybe you wouldn’t be such a recalcitrant sheep. The reason I started my comments on this forum was that OS X is better suited to the type of multi-tasking that Marlene had in mind. When you need to work in those conditions, you can’t afford a BSOD or a system freeze. Mac is not perfect by any means but at least they are designing systems for the average user, while keeping intact the customizability of the OS and the versatility of the UNIX command line via Terminal. I’m appalled at the type of behavior and flaming that I’ve seen here. You attack the person, not the argument–what is known as the ad hominem fallacy. You’d think that you’d be more logical, but I can see how your social skills might be lacking. I’ve tried to do a mea culpa on a few occasions and have addressed my stupid errors, but even that was met with derision. Get a life. Jeff
