Adobe Gamma doesn’t affect fullscreen programs??

AW
Posted By
Allen_W
Jul 23, 2007
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712
Replies
31
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Closed
Adobe Gamma [after making adjustments] doesn’t affect fullscreen programs [i.e. games, etc.]. It only works when in regular Windows. Can this be fixed so that it’s always working in all programs?

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B
Buko
Jul 23, 2007
Adobe Gamma is used to create a monitor profile that is used by color managed applications.

Games are not colormanaged.
I
ID._Awe
Jul 23, 2007
Actually some newer games are colour managed in that they use the profiles associated through Windows. This only works with some, but not all cards, as an example ATI Radeon series which are specifically ported to use with Doom III.
AW
Allen_W
Jul 23, 2007
my current way around this problem is to set the actual gamma correction in my video driver and not use adobe gamma to do it…
I
ID._Awe
Jul 23, 2007
I was thinking after I posted that AG may interfere with CM in a gaming environment.

There are several white papers on the ATI site that discuss this. I did not read them because they were WAY over my head.
AW
Allen_W
Jul 23, 2007
does this problem also happen with color management done via a monitor calibrator? or just adobe gamma?

good thing i have an nvidia card.
PF
Peter_Figen
Jul 23, 2007
Adobe Gamma or ANY monitor calibration system, allows you to calibrate the monitor, which will definitely affect the overall look of the monitor whether or not the application is color managed. Remember that that calibration is held in the lookup tables which are loaded into the video card upon startup. Colormanaged apps which can read profiles will be able to interpret with any embedded profile while non color managed apps will assume everything is in Monitor RGB. When you calibrate you are, in effect, changing what Monitor RGB is, so it will affect the overall look.
I
ID._Awe
Jul 23, 2007
Allen, you can do the same thing with ATI & Matrox cards.

I think this problem would occur just with AG, I’m using Monaco EZcolor, it loads the LUT to my ATI card on startup.
JJ
John_Joslin
Jul 24, 2007
I remember some games did not run under Windows itself. Since it’s a long time since I was in my teens I don’t know if this is still the case.

….or even if it’s relevant. 😉
AW
Allen_W
Jul 24, 2007
so if you use a monitor calibrator, you don’t need to use adobe gamma?
JJ
John_Joslin
Jul 24, 2007
so if you use a monitor calibrator, you don’t need to use adobe gamma?

You are winding us up, right?
AW
Allen_W
Jul 24, 2007
so a monitor calibrator would still rely on adobe gamma to work?
I
ID._Awe
Jul 24, 2007
Allen: No, the monitor calibrator would come with software that would use it’s own gamma loader for the profile you created and you would remove AGM from the startup folder.

You’re almost getting it! Stop using ‘monitor RGB’ in your colour setting and switch to ‘Adobe 1998’.
AW
Allen_W
Jul 24, 2007
does the gamma loaders that come with monitor calibrators have the same problem with only working in windows and not in fullscreen programs?

also, i have to use sRGB for web work that i do.
C
chrisjbirchall
Jul 24, 2007
You could always work in one of the wider gamuts, such as AdobeRGB1998 or ProPhotoRGB, then use Edit>Convert to Profile (sRGB) before saving for web. I have it set up in an action for convenience.
I
ID._Awe
Jul 24, 2007
Allen: The gamma loader would not necessarily affect games, most games load into their own ‘shell’, the newer ones use their own CM and use the profile associated with the monitor through windows.

I do web work all the time, the files are saved without profiles attached as they do not make any difference in a browsing environment.
AW
Allen_W
Jul 24, 2007
well if you trust adobe gamma to adjust your monitor for proper calibration, you wouldn’t want it to only look correct in Windows and then noticably wrong in a fullscreen program. then you might as well make the adjustments in your video card driver…
I
ID._Awe
Jul 24, 2007
Allen: Any adjustments you make for a game would only be good for that game and not particularly any other, you should save any adjustments you make on the card and only load them for a particular game for which you made the adjustment.

Again, you seem to be missing the point here, the games themselves load the profile into their operating shell, hence why ATI has spent a lot of time working with game programmers to get a better color rendering experience. But again, color management for a 2D app like Photoshop is a lot different that color management for a 3D gaming environment.

Anyways, you seem to know it all and apparently have a disdain for everyone else who has a good knowledge of CM. Trying to help you has been a worthless experience.
AW
Allen_W
Jul 24, 2007
well when i made noticable gamma change in adobe gamma it doesn’t affect the game or other full screen program. but when i made the gamma adjustment in my video driver [universally], it affects the game also. so the way adobe gamma currently works isn’t universally reliable…
RK
Rob_Keijzer
Jul 24, 2007
Allen,

Adobe Gamma (and other calibration/profile utilities) creates a monitor profile.

Only programmes that are Colour Managed use this profile.

The games probably not.

It is short sighted to think that Adobe Gamma is to blame for this.

If you continue to fail to understand, we’ll come over.

Rob
BD
Brett Dalton
Jul 25, 2007
the one thing that is not mentioned is if you look in the ATI driver panel for example there are seperate gamma and colour curves for 3D and for desktop and for video playback. The card is utilised differently in all three apps and colours are determined differently, either through a direct raster, after texturing and lighting and shading etc in 3D and via the hardware decoders in video.

Adobe Gamma and most colour management software will only effect your normal desktop. Some older cards (like my 9600) get the LUT (look up tables) reset after running SOME 3D apps which buggers my colour management.

Accept that 3d shader pipelines can’t be effectively managed as there are too many hardware dependant varables (although OpenGL tried to do this to some extent by defining min characteristics) If you really need accurate colours from a 3D render do a colour correction in post (ie render to a avi/mov and colour correct there).

BRETT
AW
Allen_W
Jul 27, 2007
thats why i prefer to do the gamma correction in my nvidia video driver–since it affects everything
BD
Brett Dalton
Jul 28, 2007
however it’s not going to give you accurate or consistent colours across the three situations, nor will it be effective when trying to properly calibrate your monitor.

My ATI has separate adjustments for each application (Desktop, 3d and overlay video) which is better than a global but still doesn’t solve the colour management issue.

Does anyone have any info as far as colour management in Vista under the new 3D desktop?

BRETT
AW
Allen_W
Jul 29, 2007
so if you use a monitor calibrator to correct the colors of your monitor, those colors will only be accurate inside color managed programs and not for every program?
DM
dave_milbut
Jul 29, 2007
they will be ‘accurate’ as to other color managed systems. you can not guarantee what any other person’s monitor will look like (i’ve seen people wash them out with brightness maxed, for example and they like it that way) but you CAN make it so it looks the same to you and to anyone else with a color managed system, every time… so if for example, you need to get something printed, it will be reproducible because the printer will use color management too.

so your choices are nothing, everyone MAY see something different, or use a properly calibrated system where SOME people (those who care) will see the colors you intend. do that make sense?

iow, you can’t force people to use CM but at least those who do will see what you intend them to see if YOU use it too.
AW
Allen_W
Jul 30, 2007
im talking about whether or not those color calibrated system will show accurate colors across all programs running on that system. or will it only display accurate colors only in color managed programs running on that system. such as the in the main topic of this discussion…
C
chrisjbirchall
Jul 30, 2007
such as the in the main topic of this discussion…

Allen. You’re unbelievable you know.

You ask questions but you don’t listen to the answers. Throughout this and your other threads umpteen people have given you of their expetise.

I’ll save you scrolling back to the very first reply in this thread and quote the answer given in post #1 by Buko:

Buko – 9:49am Jul 23, 07 PST (#1 of 25)

Adobe Gamma is used to create a monitor profile that is used by color managed applications.
T
THV1
Jul 30, 2007
I finally did the Adobe Gamma thing and what a mistake. It looks awful. I’m not looking at fixing it–getting back to the orginal default will be fine. I reset the monitor but not sure how to do it in PS. Can anyone assist?

Thanks
Tom
AW
Allen_W
Jul 30, 2007
topic is: adobe gamma isn’t always ON, chrischernobyl. always a flame.
T
THV1
Jul 30, 2007
Yes, well it morphed
Tom
JJ
John_Joslin
Jul 30, 2007
Allen — you’re a gas!

Or something that rhymes.
AW
Allen_W
Jul 31, 2007
burp.

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