Embedded profiles

SV
Posted By
Stephen_Van_Court
Jul 24, 2007
Views
369
Replies
7
Status
Closed
Is there an advantage to using the embedded color profile rather than converting to the working space profile when working with RAW (NEF) images downloaded from a digital camera? The images will be printed by a commercial photo lab and are imported into PS6.

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PF
Peter_Figen
Jul 24, 2007
It depends on what that profile is. If it’s a working space profile but just different than your working space, you’ll have to decide on which is the better choice for your intended use. If it’s a camera profile, then, by all means – or any means, convert to your working RGB to do your corrections.
SV
Stephen_Van_Court
Jul 25, 2007
The color space on the camera (Nikon D200) is set to Adobe RGB. According to the camera’s manual, JPG photos taken in the Adobe RGB color space are supposed to be Exif 2.21 and DCF 2.0 compliant. The question arises when I download Nikon RAW (NEF) images. It sounds to me like I should convert to the computer’s PS6 working space.
PF
Peter_Figen
Jul 25, 2007
The RAW file reallly doesn’t have a profile associated with it until after you process it in the raw processor of your choice. At that time, the raw processing software will convert from the camera profile to whatever working space YOU choose. Adobe Camera Raw gives you four choices of working spaces. Other raw processing application have many more choices. All of them will embed the destination profile in the processed tiff or jpeg. You shouldn’t need to convert to anything after you process your raw file. It should already be there.
SV
Stephen_Van_Court
Jul 26, 2007
When I open jpeg images from the camera using Photoshop 6, no mention is made of color profile or working space. I have purposefully set the camera to record images using What Nikon calls AdobeRGB rather than sRGB. As the manual says, "sRGB is recommended for photos that will be printed ‘as is’ with no further modification. AdobeRGB color space is capable of expressing a wider gamut of colors than sRGB, making it the preferred choice for images that will be extensively processed or retouched."

I usually make some modifications such as manipulating levels, dodging, and perhaps selectively increasing chrominance. Then the photos are printed photographically (not on a computer printer).

When I open a RAW (NEF) file, a box with the title "Embedded Profile Mismatch" opens with the following message:

The document’s embedded color profile does not match the current RGB working space.

Embedded: Nikon Adobe RGB 4.0.0.3000
Working: sRGB IEC61966-2.1

How do you want to proceed?

– Use the embedded profile (instead of the working space) – Convert the document’s colors to the working space
* Discard the embedded profile (don’t color manage)

The choice with the asterisk is the default

I haven’t tried using either Adobe Camera Raw or Nikon Capture 4. Is this an indication that I need to spend the $1000 needed to move into CS3?
PF
Peter_Figen
Jul 26, 2007
For some reason known only to Nikon itself, they felt compelled to make a slight change to the Adobe RGB spec and put their own name on it. For all intents and purposes, it’s the same as regular old Adobe RGB. Nikon just did their best to confuse things.

Are these NEF files the actual raw files from your digital camera or are they files you have just saved in the NEF format, because genuine RAW files wouldn’t have any profile associated with them until after you process them in NikonCapture, ACR or some other raw file processing program.

In any event, reading up on color management – either in Real World Color Management or in Real World Photoshop – wouldn’t hurt your understanding of this stuff.

"sRGB is recommended for photos that will be printed ‘as is’ with no further modification. AdobeRGB color space is capable of expressing a wider gamut of colors than sRGB, making it the preferred choice for images that will be extensively processed or retouched."

This is a rather simplistic explanation and isn’t really true. You should choose your color space based on image content and output requirments, not whether or not you are going to manipulate the image. I remember reading that somewhere and thinking that whoever wrote it had no idea what they were talking about.
MD
Michael_D_Sullivan
Jul 27, 2007
How are you opening a RAW file in Photoshop 6? Camera RAW wasn’t introduced until the optional plug-in for 7. It sounds to me like either you are using a Nikon plug-in or Photoshop is opening the embedded JPEG in the RAW file somehow.
SV
Stephen_Van_Court
Jul 27, 2007
Peter,

The NEF images are transferred to my computer using either Picture Project or, more recently, Nikon View. They are being opened for the first time in PS6.0.1 and that’s where I encounter the dialogue box. Neither of these programs is what I understand to be RAW processing software, just image management software. At least that’s the way I’ve been using them because I figure PS is bound to be better at image manipulation or processing than anything from a camera manufacturer.

Michael,

I think there were plug-ins that came with the Nikon Picture Project software. The NEF images I open are in a separate folder from the JPG images, so they aren’t able to be opened. Also, the size of the two images is significantly different and the dialogue box definitely says it’s opening NEF images.

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