Clipping from DVDs

M
Posted By
mcgyverjones
Apr 7, 2004
Views
618
Replies
16
Status
Closed
This seems like a fairly simple thing to do but I am having a pretty frustrating time doing it. I just want to clip stills from DVDs to use in graphics etc for personal use.
I am doing what I usually do to clip from games: hit "prt scrn" to send screenshot to clipboard, then open in photoshop via file->clipboard. The result is a screenshot of the player and either a black screen or a cropped image that alters when increasing the %. I’ve tried a few players (WM, Real, interactual …) and have tried to save-as JPG to no avail. Is this a copyright protection thing? Is there anyway around it? Am I just doing it wrong?
Any help greatly appreciated,

MJ

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Klaas Visser
Apr 7, 2004
On 07/04/04 13:49 mcgyverjones posted the following :

This seems like a fairly simple thing to do but I am having a pretty frustrating time doing it. I just want to clip stills from DVDs to use in graphics etc for personal use.
I am doing what I usually do to clip from games: hit "prt scrn" to send screenshot to clipboard, then open in photoshop via file->clipboard. The result is a screenshot of the player and either a black screen or a cropped image that alters when increasing the %. I’ve tried a few players (WM, Real, interactual …) and have tried to save-as JPG to no avail. Is this a copyright protection thing? Is there anyway around it? Am I just doing it wrong?
Any help greatly appreciated,

MJ

Well, WinDVD has a capture function for this – while the movie is playing, you just press the capture button, and it saves a still for you. I’d be surprised if the other DVD players didn’t have similar functionality.


cheers,
Klaas

Learning without thought is labour lost;
Thought without learning is perilous.
– Confucius
MB
Martin Bishop
Apr 7, 2004
Yes, this is a copyright thing. What you are experiencing is Macrovision Protection. This keeps people from doing exactly what you are trying to do. Like what Klaas said, many dvd programs have built in screen capture abilities. Your other option is to purchase software that captures Direct-X screens. This is how dvd’s are displayed on your computer, they use Direct-X overlays. The dvd screen is actually the color black, or pink, and sometimes green, the software then places the acutal movie footage where this color is in the screen and you are able to watch a movie.

I’ve found the best software for caputring dvd stills is SnagIt http://www.techsmith.com/products/snagit/default.asp
It works wonderfully and is the best tool to do what you are wanting.

On Wed, 07 Apr 2004 17:16:05 +1000, Klaas Visser
wrote:

On 07/04/04 13:49 mcgyverjones posted the following :

This seems like a fairly simple thing to do but I am having a pretty frustrating time doing it. I just want to clip stills from DVDs to use in graphics etc for personal use.
I am doing what I usually do to clip from games: hit "prt scrn" to send screenshot to clipboard, then open in photoshop via file->clipboard. The result is a screenshot of the player and either a black screen or a cropped image that alters when increasing the %. I’ve tried a few players (WM, Real, interactual …) and have tried to save-as JPG to no avail. Is this a copyright protection thing? Is there anyway around it? Am I just doing it wrong?
Any help greatly appreciated,

MJ

Well, WinDVD has a capture function for this – while the movie is playing, you just press the capture button, and it saves a still for you. I’d be surprised if the other DVD players didn’t have similar functionality.
T
tacitr
Apr 7, 2004
I just want to clip stills from DVDs to use in
graphics etc for personal use.

First of all, before going any farther, you should be aware that this is a Federal crime. It is a violation of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act, even if it is for your own personal use and even if you own the DVD.

I’ve tried a few players
(WM, Real, interactual …) and have tried to save-as JPG to no avail. Is this a copyright protection thing?

Yes, it’s a copyright-protection thing. The DMCA forbids, among other things, producing or trafficing in any device or program designed to circumvent any technological copyright-control mechanism. DVDs are encrypted on disk to prevent people from copying the data, and licensed DVD players which use legal encryption keys sanctioned by the Motion Picture Association of America and the DVD CCA are forbidden by contract to create or save stills, clips, or audio.

There are DVD players, such as PowerDVD, that use unlicensed, "hacked" encryption keys. These DVD players are not licensed by the MPAA or the DVD CCA, and are not subject to the DVD CCA contract forbidding saving stills. Therefore, programs like PowerDVD can do what you want.

It is not yet clear if these programs are legal to own. They’re sold openly in stores, though they’re actually manufactured outside the US, where the DMCA does not apply. The courts seem mixed about whether they qualify as a "means to circumvent a technological copyright-control mechanism."

I have a copy of PowerDVD — not that I’d ever use it for anything illegal 😉 — and it works great. You can do what you want to do; it’s not like the FBI will bust down your door for making a screen capture–just be aware of all the legal issues surrounding it.

Biohazard? Radiation hazard? SO last-century.
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John Navas
Apr 7, 2004

[POSTED TO rec.photo.digital – REPLY ON USENET PLEASE]

In <iTKcc.5347$> on Tue, 6 Apr 2004 23:49:34
-0400, "mcgyverjones" <mcgyverjones(spamout)@hotmail.com> wrote:

This seems like a fairly simple thing to do but I am having a pretty frustrating time doing it. I just want to clip stills from DVDs to use in graphics etc for personal use.
I am doing what I usually do to clip from games: hit "prt scrn" to send screenshot to clipboard, then open in photoshop via file->clipboard. The result is a screenshot of the player and either a black screen or a cropped image that alters when increasing the %. I’ve tried a few players (WM, Real, interactual …) and have tried to save-as JPG to no avail. Is this a copyright protection thing? Is there anyway around it? Am I just doing it wrong?
Any help greatly appreciated,

Turn down video acceleration (Display Properties -> Settings -> Advanced -> Troubleshoot) when you want to do a capture.


Best regards,
John Navas
[PLEASE NOTE: Ads belong *only* in rec.photo.marketplace.digital, as per <http://bobatkins.photo.net/info/charter.htm> <http://rpdfaq.50megs.com/>]
U
Uni
Apr 7, 2004
mcgyverjones wrote:
This seems like a fairly simple thing to do but I am having a pretty frustrating time doing it. I just want to clip stills from DVDs to use in graphics etc for personal use.
I am doing what I usually do to clip from games: hit "prt scrn" to send screenshot to clipboard, then open in photoshop via file->clipboard. The result is a screenshot of the player and either a black screen or a cropped image that alters when increasing the %. I’ve tried a few players (WM, Real, interactual …) and have tried to save-as JPG to no avail. Is this a copyright protection thing? Is there anyway around it? Am I just doing it wrong?
Any help greatly appreciated,

Has nothing to do with copyrights.

DirectX is a lower level video component than the operating system.

Uni

MJ

T
tacitr
Apr 7, 2004
Has nothing to do with copyrights.

Incorrect.

Any manufacturer who makes a DVD player program with legally licensed DVD CSS encryption keys must sign a contract which explicitly states that the manufacturer’s product or software will not allow content decryption, extraction of video or audio, and so on.

From the DVD CCA Web site:

"Under the terms of the CSS licensing agreement, is it legal for a licensed manufacturer to produce and sell a product which allows a user to disable any CSS protections?

No. Such products are not allowed under the terms of the CSS license. They are illegal. In cases where DVD-CCA learns of such products, immediate action is taken through the manufacturer to have the product corrected to conform with the CSS license."

Note that the DVD CSS considers any program which can create an unencrypted image of any portion of a DVD, even a single frame, as being a "disabling of CSS protections."

More information:

http://www.dvdcca.org/

There is a discussion of the legal ramifications of the DMCA as it applies to DeCSS and the licensing controls imposed by the DVD CCA at

http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/rst/dmca/auth/auth.html

One interesting point to note is that the language of the DMCA creates a distinction between *authorized* and *unauthorized* use of an encrypted copyrighted work. From the Web site referenced above:

"What makes such a player authorized is, in the plaintiffs’ view, the CSS license. If removal of the CSS obscuration is done by a licensed player, then the player has the authority of the copyright owner, and is therefore authorized. However, if the exact same process is performed by a player which was created by someone without a license, then it is unauthorized, and therefore circumvention, never mind that the two processes have the exact same effect."

Since being able to make screen captures or take clips from a DVD is *explicitly forbidden* by the standard DVD CCA key license, it’s not too tough to see that any program which does so is "unauthorized" in the sense of the word described above.

If you are interested in reading the full terms of the DVD CCA contract for encryption key licensees, the entire document is available on the Web as a 32-page PDF at

http://osiris.978.org/~brianr/crypto-research/css/dvdcca-css /csslicense_10 bc.pdf

The contract makes reference both to "licensing fees" and to conformance with the CSS Specification. The licensing fee (in case you were wondering) varies between $10,000 and $15,500; the CSS specification is where things get interesting. The CSS specification document is considered a "trade secret," and is not made available to anyone who has not paid the licensing fees and signed the contract.

However, the view of the MPAA and DVD CCA with regards to making even portions of a DVD available without encryption are quite well-known, and even appear on the DVD CCA Web site. "BUT "fair use" is not an open-ended concept. It does not justify any action an individual may take with a copyrighted work, whether they have purchased the copy or not. It is a right to use what is available, not a right of access to works for fair use purposes."

The DVD CCA is quite public in its opposition to allowing its licensees to make screen captures or clips from DVDs, even if they would ordinarily be considered "fair use."

Apple’s interpretation of the requirements of the CSS Specification document is that allowing video capture is not permitted; this is also Microsoft’s interpretation. The CCA Procedural Specifications, which are incorporated in the document that licensees must agree to, allows only certain forms of output of decrypted DVD information, and screen captures are *not* included.

It is up to the licensees of the CSS keys to make "reasonable efforts" to ensure that users do not gain access to protected CSS trade secrets (including CSS keys) and to ensure that their products are not used in any way which can violate the CCA Procedural Specifications. This does not mean that they must do everything humanly possible to prevent it; the fact that a circumvention or workaround is possible does not mean that the making of screen captures is permitted by the DVD CCA. In the case of Microsoft’s player, they clearly believe that sending the decrypted video to a DirectX video layer discharges their obligations.

Yes, it is a copyright matter. The fact that there’s a way around it does not demonstrate otherwise.

Of course, I don’t expect you to take my word for it; I highly recommend you do the research for yourself.


Biohazard? Radiation hazard? SO last-century.
Nanohazard T-shirts now available! http://www.villaintees.com Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
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CG
Colin G Edwards
Apr 8, 2004
Tacit wrote:

Has nothing to do with copyrights.

Incorrect.
<huge tome of legal stuff snipped!>

No, I think he’s right. The reason the OP can’t capture a screenshot using the method he’s trying is because of the way the hardware gets the video onto the screen.

I am outside the US, using Linux DVD playing software developed outside the US. The DMCA, or any laws in the United Police States of Amercia, are a complete irrelevance to me and the software I use. But screen capture tools don’t work for DVD stills on my system either.

/me ponders the wisdom of arguing against Tacit on this newsgroup… Hmmm… :o)
U
Uni
Apr 8, 2004
Tacit wrote:
Has nothing to do with copyrights.

Incorrect.

Encryption does not cause a blank screen.
A single frame capture is protected under fair use laws.

Uni

Any manufacturer who makes a DVD player program with legally licensed DVD CSS encryption keys must sign a contract which explicitly states that the manufacturer’s product or software will not allow content decryption, extraction of video or audio, and so on.

From the DVD CCA Web site:

"Under the terms of the CSS licensing agreement, is it legal for a licensed manufacturer to produce and sell a product which allows a user to disable any CSS protections?

No. Such products are not allowed under the terms of the CSS license. They are illegal. In cases where DVD-CCA learns of such products, immediate action is taken through the manufacturer to have the product corrected to conform with the CSS license."

Note that the DVD CSS considers any program which can create an unencrypted image of any portion of a DVD, even a single frame, as being a "disabling of CSS protections."

More information:

http://www.dvdcca.org/

There is a discussion of the legal ramifications of the DMCA as it applies to DeCSS and the licensing controls imposed by the DVD CCA at
http://www.ai.mit.edu/people/rst/dmca/auth/auth.html

One interesting point to note is that the language of the DMCA creates a distinction between *authorized* and *unauthorized* use of an encrypted copyrighted work. From the Web site referenced above:

"What makes such a player authorized is, in the plaintiffs’ view, the CSS license. If removal of the CSS obscuration is done by a licensed player, then the player has the authority of the copyright owner, and is therefore authorized. However, if the exact same process is performed by a player which was created by someone without a license, then it is unauthorized, and therefore circumvention, never mind that the two processes have the exact same effect."

Since being able to make screen captures or take clips from a DVD is *explicitly forbidden* by the standard DVD CCA key license, it’s not too tough to see that any program which does so is "unauthorized" in the sense of the word described above.

If you are interested in reading the full terms of the DVD CCA contract for encryption key licensees, the entire document is available on the Web as a 32-page PDF at

http://osiris.978.org/~brianr/crypto-research/css/dvdcca-css /csslicense_10 bc.pdf

The contract makes reference both to "licensing fees" and to conformance with the CSS Specification. The licensing fee (in case you were wondering) varies between $10,000 and $15,500; the CSS specification is where things get interesting. The CSS specification document is considered a "trade secret," and is not made available to anyone who has not paid the licensing fees and signed the contract.

However, the view of the MPAA and DVD CCA with regards to making even portions of a DVD available without encryption are quite well-known, and even appear on the DVD CCA Web site. "BUT "fair use" is not an open-ended concept. It does not justify any action an individual may take with a copyrighted work, whether they have purchased the copy or not. It is a right to use what is available, not a right of access to works for fair use purposes."

The DVD CCA is quite public in its opposition to allowing its licensees to make screen captures or clips from DVDs, even if they would ordinarily be considered "fair use."

Apple’s interpretation of the requirements of the CSS Specification document is that allowing video capture is not permitted; this is also Microsoft’s interpretation. The CCA Procedural Specifications, which are incorporated in the document that licensees must agree to, allows only certain forms of output of decrypted DVD information, and screen captures are *not* included.
It is up to the licensees of the CSS keys to make "reasonable efforts" to ensure that users do not gain access to protected CSS trade secrets (including CSS keys) and to ensure that their products are not used in any way which can violate the CCA Procedural Specifications. This does not mean that they must do everything humanly possible to prevent it; the fact that a circumvention or workaround is possible does not mean that the making of screen captures is permitted by the DVD CCA. In the case of Microsoft’s player, they clearly believe that sending the decrypted video to a DirectX video layer discharges their obligations.

Yes, it is a copyright matter. The fact that there’s a way around it does not demonstrate otherwise.

Of course, I don’t expect you to take my word for it; I highly recommend you do the research for yourself.
U
Uni
Apr 8, 2004
Derek Fountain wrote:
Tacit wrote:

Has nothing to do with copyrights.

Incorrect.

<huge tome of legal stuff snipped!>

No, I think he’s right. The reason the OP can’t capture a screenshot using the method he’s trying is because of the way the hardware gets the video onto the screen.

Exactly. The OS is too slow to process video. MS and others have provided an almost direct path to the video hardware.

Uni

I am outside the US, using Linux DVD playing software developed outside the US. The DMCA, or any laws in the United Police States of Amercia, are a complete irrelevance to me and the software I use. But screen capture tools don’t work for DVD stills on my system either.

/me ponders the wisdom of arguing against Tacit on this newsgroup… Hmmm… :o)
M
mcgyverjones
Apr 8, 2004
"mcgyverjones" <mcgyverjones(spamout)@hotmail.com> wrote in message
I just want to clip stills from DVDs to use in
graphics etc for personal use.
snip

Thanks all. The winDVD route was the way to go. Hit "capture" and it delivers a bitmap to "my pictures" in a file called "winDVD captures". Couldn’t be simpler!
As to the legal concerns, I’m not in the USA anyway. Copyright laws are different in Canada (hello Kazaa!).

MJ
T
tacitr
Apr 8, 2004
The reason the OP can’t capture a screenshot using
the method he’s trying is because of the way the hardware gets the video onto the screen.

Yep; this is the technique Microsoft (and also Apple) chose to implement as their "reasonable measures to protect the DVD." It offers two benefits; faster performance and compliance with the DVD CCA.

I am outside the US, using Linux DVD playing software developed outside the US. The DMCA, or any laws in the United Police States of Amercia, are a complete irrelevance to me and the software I use. But screen capture tools don’t work for DVD stills on my system either.

Yep, though in that case, it’s a performance consideration, not a performance and compliance consideration. The (badly written) laws of the US and the contractual obligations of DVD CCA licensees prohibit this kind of use nonetheless.


Biohazard? Radiation hazard? SO last-century.
Nanohazard T-shirts now available! http://www.villaintees.com Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
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T
tacitr
Apr 8, 2004
Encryption does not cause a blank screen.
A single frame capture is protected under fair use laws.

Actually, under the DMCA, that is not correct. Any use whatsoever, under any conditions, by anyone, which "circumvents a copyright control mechanism" is illegal, regardless of the use to which the copied material is then put and regardless of the amount of material which is copied. Look it up. Title 17, USC 1201, section (a), paragraph 1.

Title 17, USC 1201, section (i), paragraphs 1(a) through 1(d) spell out explicit exceptions to the anti-circumvention clause. Screen captures of DVDs are not included.

Don’t take my word for it; we can piss around on Usenet all day long without getting anywhere. Ask an intellectual property lawyer. That’s what I did (email me off-list if you would like his contact information).


Biohazard? Radiation hazard? SO last-century.
Nanohazard T-shirts now available! http://www.villaintees.com Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html
T
tacitr
Apr 8, 2004
As to the legal concerns, I’m not in the USA anyway. Copyright laws are different in Canada (hello Kazaa!).

Must be nice to live in a country with less Draconian copyright laws. 🙂


Biohazard? Radiation hazard? SO last-century.
Nanohazard T-shirts now available! http://www.villaintees.com Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html
U
Uni
Apr 10, 2004
Tacit wrote:
Encryption does not cause a blank screen.
A single frame capture is protected under fair use laws.

Actually, under the DMCA, that is not correct. Any use whatsoever, under any conditions, by anyone, which "circumvents a copyright control mechanism" is illegal, regardless of the use to which the copied material is then put and regardless of the amount of material which is copied. Look it up. Title 17, USC 1201, section (a), paragraph 1.

Title 17, USC 1201, section (i), paragraphs 1(a) through 1(d) spell out explicit exceptions to the anti-circumvention clause. Screen captures of DVDs are not included.

Don’t take my word for it; we can piss around on Usenet all day long without getting anywhere. Ask an intellectual property lawyer. That’s what I did (email me off-list if you would like his contact information).

You’re so right. The headlines of the Sunday paper read "Man Serves 20 Years For Video Capture Still!".

🙂

Law is law, Tacit. However, common sense rules.

🙂

Uni

T
tacitr
Apr 10, 2004
Law is law, Tacit. However, common sense rules.

Yep. Or, as Charles Dickens said, "The law is a ass–a idiot."

The DMCA is not the most ridiculous law in the country, but it’s pretty damn close.


Biohazard? Radiation hazard? SO last-century.
Nanohazard T-shirts now available! http://www.villaintees.com Art, literature, shareware, polyamory, kink, and more:
http://www.xeromag.com/franklin.html
U
Uni
Apr 10, 2004
Tacit wrote:
Law is law, Tacit. However, common sense rules.

Yep. Or, as Charles Dickens said, "The law is a ass–a idiot."
The DMCA is not the most ridiculous law in the country, but it’s pretty damn close.

Couldn’t have said it better myself.

🙂

Uni

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