New PC Build – Anybody See Problems?

You’re going to all this trouble and using just one monitor?

And only two gigs? Treat yourself to two more.

Bob

Hey Bob,

Are you running 4GB — with Vista? How do you have it set up for Photoshop to use the extra RAM?

Thanks,

Rick

Three gigs with XP Pro

Bob

Thanks, Bob.

I’ll probably be building a new system before the end of the year. I’m hesitant about using Vista, but maybe they’ll have a service pack out by then.

"Three gigs"- is that a raving (raging?) endorsement of my proposed build? :o)

– Dave

"And only two gigs? Treat yourself to two more."

From all the research I’ve done and all the flames I’ve endured on Computer Power User (CPU) forum it looks like 32 bit Windows (Vista or XP Pro) can’t use all of 4GB. Also I’ve been assured that DDR2-800 will run at 667 with four sticks installed. It appears I’m not pushing things to virtual memory with my current setup (2GB RAM), so if the 667-800 thing is true I can use the extra speed. I can start with two sticks, run tests that represent my toughest tasks then add two later and run the tests again.

Vista can see 4GB of installed memory if you ensure PAE (Physical Address Extension) is enabled. Then, akin to the /3GB switch with Windows XP, you can set IncreaseUserVa to 3072 so that up to 3GB of memory can be allocated to an application. With 4GB of installed memory, you also have extra headroom in the event that the sum total of memory needed by multiple applications exceeds 3GB, keeping in mind however that the 1GB of memory area is also being used by the O/S. In Windows Vista, BCDedit is used to modify the boot settings. Here are my setttings from the Windows Boot Loader portion of what BCDedit lists out:

Windows Boot Loader
——————-
identifier {current}
device partition=C:
path \Windows\system32\winload.exe
description Microsoft Windows Vista
locale en-US
inherit {bootloadersettings}
bootdebug No
nointegritychecks No
osdevice partition=C:
systemroot \Windows
resumeobject {7162215b-ebb9-11db-a035-d338927742c7}
nx OptIn
pae ForceEnable
increaseuserva 3072
detecthal No
quietboot Yes
usefirmwarepcisettings No
sos No
debug No

Here is an article I found informative about the IncreaseUserVa switch: <http://www.prophotowiki.com/w/index.php/IncreaseUserVa>

Regards,

Daryl

…and extra RAM can always be set as a scratch disk…

Keith

Why would you do that?

Assuming you could!

Why would you do that?

Because a RAM disk is infinitely faster than a physical harddrive.

Bob

Photoshop CS3 runs like smooth butter on my Vista x64 machine with 4 gb ram.

As far as a service pack for Vista, Microsoft has already fixed the bugs that were a problem for me…disk transfer speed, 4gb BSOD issue, several performance and compatibility tweak packs, etc.

Just make sure you install all the updates before you install your other software.

You don’t need to wait for a service pack.

750watts PSU is overkill. Go for a silent and efficient one like a Seasonic.

If money allowed, I’d select a 24" (or two :D)
4gigs is better than two, Corsair makes a "value" line that also has lifetime warranty, and can be way cheaper.

Do you have an external 1TB drive to backup the data?

I’d go for 150GB raptors instead of 74GB. I can fill 74GB with applications in a day or two.

I second Pierre’s recommendation of a Seasonic power supply, but if you have the cash for a 750W unit, it does at least give you some extra headroom if needed for growth. The Seasonic is a more expensive power supply, this 700W unit being $210 at NewEgg < http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817151 031> while a 650W unit is around $160, so they are quite a bit more expensive than the CoolerMaster PSU you’ve chosen. I’d expect the CoolerMaster PSU to be a well-made unit but I just generally favor Seasonic; the modular design is nice too.

Daryl

I’m a bit astonished that nobody’s mentioned anything about using a raid solution. If you put 2 fast HD’s in your system, and you stripe em, you’ll get a lot more speed out of it.
I’m using 2 HD’s with 16MB cache each in striping. I partioned that volume into 2 parts, 1 20 GB part for Primary Scratch Disk, and the rest for temporarily saving my work.
Since it’s a striped disk, you have quite some risks when 1 of the drives crashes. So you should backup your work from the striped disk to an other drive weekly, or even more frequently.
The difference between a striped disk and a single disk is quite big, and using a striped one as scratch disk makes a hell of a difference.

Also, about the 4GB thing in X86 systems, I’m running Vista 32bit with 4 gigs of Ram, and I only have 3,3 GB available. But that’s still a lot more than 2 GB… So it’s definitely worth it.

About the monitors, even if you buy a 24" widescreen TFT as your main, a 19 or 20" costs next to nothing these days, and having an extra monitor for your tools or for other things that aren’t all too dependant on a perfectly calibrated monitor is so much easier to work with 🙂
Which reminds me that you’d probably need (if you don’t already have one) a calibration device. There are 2 cheap and good products, namely Huey and Eye-One. Huey is the cheapest, but it’s still a very good product. If you choose this one, go for the pro version. It’s a bit more expensive (still only 150 euro ;-), but it allows you to calibrate different monitors on the same system.

That’s all I can think of for now. Hope you’ll enjoy your system 😉

Thanks everybody for pitching in on this thread. FYI I’ve included my current PC setup and some external resources that apply to some of the comments in the thread.

povimage – 1:44pm Aug 22, 07 PST (#1 of 16)

You’re going to all this trouble and using just one monitor?

Yeah,

Robert Levine – 1:48pm Aug 22, 07 PST (#2 of 16)

And only two gigs? Treat yourself to two more.

Yes, only 2 gigs. After reading comments here and on Corsair forum it looked like more could be problematic if I make adjustments so that applications can use the extra memory. Check out <http://www.prophotowiki.com/w/index.php/IncreaseUserVa>

Potential Issues
The problem with this, however, is that few people know about this feature and only a fraction of those users actually make use of it. As such, many developers of device drivers simply assume that they have the standard 2GB block of kernel address space to work with and hard code their drivers along those lines (which is admittedly true for the vast majority of installations). If you shrink that space down, any drivers making this assumption are going to experience problems. At the very least it will generally lead to a very unstable machine, at the worst it will prevent the machine from booting at all.

The most common culprit for this type of problem is the video card. Modern graphics cards often have large quantities of onboard memory that must be mapped into the virtual address space. This process requires a sizable contiguous block of addresses within the kernel space, so the 1GB limit can become a serious liability. If there is insufficient space, the driver will often fail to load and cause the system to crash during the boot up phase.

I need to use the PC. I’m not willing to do the tweaks.

povimage – 6:00pm Aug 23, 07 PST (#9 of 16)

..and extra RAM can always be set as a scratch disk…

As long as you know where to put it where it won’t interfere with drivers and other system use.

Dave Burkholder – 6:30am Aug 24, 07 PST (#12 of 16)

Photoshop CS3 runs like smooth butter on my Vista x64 machine with 4 gb ram.

Great! We need pioneers. I’ll stick with 32 bit XP Pro for this go-round.

PECourtejoie – 7:06am Aug 24, 07 PST (#13 of 16)

750watts PSU is overkill. Go for a silent and efficient one like a Seasonic.

A little overkill never hurt anyone.

If money allowed, I’d select a 24" (or two )

The monitor I’m using is fine. The thread really is about the box and the stuff inside.

4gigs is better than two, Corsair makes a "value" line that also has lifetime warranty, and can be way cheaper.

See previous discussion. I’ll stick with 2GB for now.

Do you have an external 1TB drive to backup the data?

I have 750 GB external. It wasn’t the point of the thread.

Mathias Vejerslev – 7:16am Aug 24, 07 PST (#14 of 16)

I’d go for 150GB raptors instead of 74GB. I can fill 74GB with applications in a day or two.

I currently have my applications on a 74GB Raptor. After over 1 1/2 years of use, Used Space is 5.07GB. I appear to be OK with the current capacity for applications.

Johan – 10:45am Aug 24, 07 PST (#16 of 16)

I’m a bit astonished that nobody’s mentioned anything about using a raid solution. If you put 2 fast HD’s in your system, and you stripe em, you’ll get a lot more speed out of it.

Astonished! See my current configuration (below). I have RAID 0 now, with the nVidia RAID controller software. I’m not impressed by any speed advantage. I have not had any failures, but two drives and a controller leaves you with about 1/4 the MTBF of a drive alone.

Which reminds me that you’d probably need (if you don’t already have one) a calibration device. There are 2 cheap and good products, namely Huey and Eye-One. Huey is the cheapest, but it’s still a very good product. If you choose this one, go for the pro version. It’s a bit more expensive (still only 150 euro , but it allows you to calibrate different monitors on the same system.

I use a ColorVision (was Pantone, now appears to be independent) DataColor Spyder II. It seems to do a good job.

Thanks again y’all.

– Dave

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PC 2006 Configuration
Built January 2006

– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

ASUS A8N-E nForce4 Ultra Socket 939

Athlon 64 x2 3800+

Crucial TWINX2048-3200C2 2GB Dual Channel Kit DDR400 XMS3200 184-pin DDR DIMM

Cooler Master RC-531-SSN1 Centurion 531 (Silver) Mid Tower

Antec SP500 500W PSU

HDD Drive 1 (C:) on EIDE PATA Port 1 Master
Maxtor 6L060J3 60 GB (already had)
O/S

HDD Drive 0 (RAID 0 config) (D:) on SATA Ports 3 & 4 2 ea. Seagate ST3400832AS 400GB 8MB 7200RPM SATA I
Data (mostly digital image files)
Windows paging file

HDD Drive 2 (E:) on SATA Port 1
Western Digital WD74GDRTL 74 GB Raptor 8MB 10,000RPM SATA I (150) Applications
Photoshop temp files (First)

HDD Drive 3 (F:, G:, H:) on SATA Port 2
Western Digital WD2500JD 250GB Caviar SATA I (already had)(150) Web site files (F:)
Programs & Updates (G:)
Photoshop temp files (H:) (Second)

Gigabyte GV-NX66256DP nVidia GeForce 6600 256MB PCI Express x16 w/TV & DVI

Plextor Dual Layer PX-716A

MS Windows XP Professional SP2 (32 bit)

FDD Mitsumi AA17310 1.44MB 3.5in Floppy

SCSI board Adaptec AHA-2940AU SCSI Adapter BIOS v1.32

1394 Adapter Addonics ADFE400PCI 3 port (one internal) PCI card 400MBPS

Mouse MS Trackball Explorer 1.0 PS2/USB

Keytronic KT800PS2US-C 104-key PS2 keyboard

Monitor NEC MultiSync LCD2190 UXi
– – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – – –

External hard drive Seagate 750GB

Laptop on wired Ethernet w/two Seagate 400GB external

Make you wonder why he asked!

….clearly his mind was made up.

I appreciate very much the feedback I got on the forum. It caused me to go back and reconsider several aspects of my proposed configuration. It was to have been my final list until I had the idea of posting here to get comments. I’m glad I did. I did a lot more research. I will be adding RAM and I will be changing my power supply to a PC Power & Cooling Silences 750 Quad S75QB which has a single 60A 12V rail and is non modular.

I’m ready to start ordering the parts. Thanks very much for your thought-provoking input.

– Dave